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[00:00:33] Ray Latif: Hey folks, I'm Ray Latif, the editor and producer of BevNET's Taste Radio podcast, and you're tuning into the latest episode of Elevator Talk, the series that profiles early stage and disruptive brands from across the food and beverage industry. Today's episode will focus on five food brands whose entrepreneurs will have an opportunity to hear feedback and advice from our co-host for this episode. That's Mia Medina, the founder and CEO of Gather Brands. Mia, it's great to see you again.
[00:01:04] Mia Medina: So good to see you too, and thank you so much for your kind words.
[00:01:08] Ray Latif: Yes, well, welcome back to the show. I believe this is your third or fourth time as a co-host of Elevator Talk, and I can't thank you enough for your contributions to our show and to the industry as a whole. You have supported the growth and development of so many early stage companies. And this is a tough business and finding the right partner who can offer you good advice, good insights, good feedback is so critical. For folks who may have missed those episodes in which you join us as a co-host, please tell us a bit about yourself and Gather Brands.
[00:01:45] Mia Medina: Yeah, sure. First, I just want to say thank you again for having me and your kind words. It's always really nice to be here. And also, thank you so much to the Nosh community and what you do for emerging in these really innovative brands. And I think you guys are really just a pillar in helping them as well. So this relationship is always a really fun one. I love the brands that we get to. It's hard. I just love them all. So I wanted to thank you for that. For those of you that don't know, I am the founder of Gather Brands. And we are a, you know, for all intents and purposes, a brokerage agency, although I really refer to it more as a sales consulting agency, we focus on all stages of brands. However, we really specialize with some of. the early stage brands kind of starting out really getting into retail. And so it's been really our focus within sort of even hyper focus is in the natural specialty channel. So that's our, you know, from a channel perspective, we really dig deep into those retailers and we have national coverage. So everything from Gelson's in SoCal to Wegmans on the East Coast, and then everything in between. So just a little bit about what we do.
[00:02:55] Ray Latif: Between Gelson's and Wegmans, you named two of my favorite retailers. So I hope by the end of this episode, some folks get some insights into how to get into those two amazing retail stores. I think, you know, this is, as I mentioned, a very tough business. As always, you know, we're in the midst of challenging headwinds coming from every single direction. But if you weren't able to identify one issue that's really tripping up early stage entrepreneurs, what would it be?
[00:03:32] Mia Medina: My usual answer to that is trying to go too far too fast. You know, it's you can't be in every single retailer, you've got to pick the ones that are going to be really good partners for you. and really focus on them and growing your business within them. So whether it's a region or a retailer within that region, just really, you know, diving in deep, because then you can build your story for your velocities, your retails, you know, really learn a lot and take those learnings to then go to other retailers and regions and expand out from there.
[00:03:58] Ray Latif: Excellent advice. And I think there's probably a lot more to come in this episode. We've got five amazing brands and the entrepreneurs behind them. Mia, are you ready to meet the first?
[00:04:11] Mia Medina: I'm so excited.
[00:04:12] Ray Latif: All right. That person is Gina Moore. She's the founder of Pantry Gems. Gina, it's great to see you again.
[00:04:19] Mia Medina: Hi, it's great to see you too, Ray. And nice to meet you, Mia. Hi Gina. Thank you so much for dropping off the samples. It was such a lovely surprise. Oh, I know. I just said my first pilot run and I was like, you're local. So I'm just going to drop it off at your door. So perfect. I appreciate that. But okay. So a little bit about my brand, it's called Pantry Gems, perfectly portioned pantry staples. And I was inspired by tomato paste because I'm Italian, I cook a lot, I have three kids, and I was constantly wasting cans of tomato paste after using one or two tablespoons for a recipe. Some people will freeze them and all that, but I just don't have time for that. I was like, this is a dollar, I'll just throw it away and buy it again next time, and this is such a waste. And I was really surprised to see that this didn't exist already. Now that I've been working on it, I can see why it's a lot of work. And it seems so simple, but it's really not. And I did just do my first pilot run with a co-packer, and it did go really well, which that's one of the samples that I gave you. Looks like this. I have no CPG background. I actually have like an art background and I do photography currently, which is great because that will help me in the future. And yeah, the next step for me is working on packaging design and the box design. And I'm so excited to talk to you because the retail part of this is overwhelming. And I have Seaside Market here locally in Cardiff, so I'm excited about that. But yeah, so I'm just happy to be here.
[00:05:52] Ray Latif: Before we get to Mia, and I know you have a lot of advice to share.
[00:05:55] Mia Medina: You know I always just come in with a lot to say.
[00:05:57] Ray Latif: I'm happy, because you know what? I am thrilled that we're talking about Pantry Gems. When I first met Gina, and this is going to be a through line for everyone in this episode. Everyone who's joining us today also joined us at a Taste Radio meetup at some point during 2025. Gina introduced herself to me at our San Diego meetup, and I was thrilled. She gave me this little packet. I'm like, what is this? She goes, oh, it's an individual packet of tomato paste. And I almost fell on the floor, because I'm like, what a genius idea. How come nobody's ever done this before? It's amazing. Then we were in a recent episode of Taste Radio. I shared it with my co-host. She's like, this is amazing. How has no one ever done this before? And despite this being such a great idea, Gina, I think you're 100% right. This is such a novel concept that it begs the question, well, how do I scale it? How do I get, you know, to a point where I can actually go from concept to shelf? And that's why I'm thrilled that Mia can offer some advice here. So Mia, you have the product. I'm sure you're excited about this as well. You know, what are the first steps in terms of getting to market and getting in touch with retail buyers and introducing them to this brand?
[00:07:05] Mia Medina: Yeah, I do. First, I have to tell you, this is so timely because one of my like, and again, you're in San Diego. So like, this is like our cold weather, right? We're sitting at like 80 degrees right now. But anyway, it gets colder at night. But one of the things that when it starts getting cold and football season comes that I am constantly doing is braised short ribs. So I just did my first batch last week, and it's the exact same thing that you talked about. I buy the six ounce can. It only requires three ounces. So then I have to put it in a bag, which I make a big mess out of, and I freeze it. I used to just throw the can away like you, but now obviously, you know, with inflation and things like that, I just, I can't throw anything away anymore. So, and then the other option is the tube one, right? Because you kind of do that. But the problem is that's like four ounces. So you use basically the whole thing, but there's always at least some left. Anyway, I was so excited to see your product. I had a couple of questions around it because the one thing that I concerns me is going to be the packaging. And this is just me like my brain, you know, I just this is where I go with it. Because obviously, you know, that it is a very, it's a commodity item. So the retail price on it is fairly low when you look at when you, you know, buy the can. So That could be an obstacle. So I was curious what you were you said that they were going to come in packs of six. So what is that retail going to be? That was one of my first questions. That is a very good question. And I totally feel you on this because like, It used to be a can of tomato paste was like 69 cents, but now these days it is, I see it like $1.39, but that's still very low for what you get. That's not for the organic ones. Exactly. Yeah, not even for the organic and my product will be organic, but it's still such a low cost and you get six ounces, there's 10 tablespoons in a can. And the packaging is so expensive. I think that's why this hasn't been done before. It's essentially a packaging company, almost. And for the cogs, since I'm still in the messy middle and figuring everything out, it is still hard to know, but we've made very educated guesses. And it seems like I'll have to start selling this at $9.99 for six. which is definitely higher than I want to. But I guess you just have to start somewhere. And eventually, when I have bigger MOQs, the price will go down. So that's kind of where I'm at right now. Is that what you're selling listed at Seaside Market for right now? I'm still pre-launch. What a great store, I will say, too. We've got a couple of San Diegans over on this call, I think. But what an awesome store to start with there. just an amazing retailer, very small, but love to start with niche products, and they're very supportive. So that's a great one. Exactly. I'm really excited, and it's my local market. I don't do my full grocery shopping there, but I go there a lot with my kids after school to get snacks and all that kind of thing. I will say I did explore other packaging, and this seems to be the best delivery method and the lowest cost, but it's still very expensive. So that's kind of where I'm at. I would love your advice on that, though. Yeah, I mean, I think that's going to be your biggest hurdle on it, honestly. But I will say don't price it, you know, for what you think you're going to get it to. I always tell brands that because They'll say, well, I think we can get to a certain amount once we scale and once we have this. But the problem is that people don't consider is, yes, you will be able to, but you'll have to order that much more packaging and that much more product ingredients. And then your cash flow gets crunched because you've already priced it for lower than it should be or lower than it's sustainable. So I think that's going to be your biggest challenge. I do think it's a genius, genius product. One question, you said it will be organic or it's organic. Um, you know, if there's a way, because so few of them are organic and I never really, I would never push to not be organic because it's so important. However, with a commodity item like this, have you checked. Out like maybe potentially launching with a non-organic. That is something I've thought about and it's actually like such a small price difference between the two. And I almost feel like if I'm organic, I can justify a tiny bit higher price. Yep. and just like the markets I want to get into. It just feels like it would be in the natural space or the shoppy shops that we have. There's so many good ones. Definitely the natural specialty is going to be a really good sort of starting zone for you. So yeah, I really loved the concept. I can't wait to see what the case pack will look like. And then have you come up with your master case yet? Not yet. Those are our next steps. We had to do our pilot run to figure out the exact size of the sachet and then I mailed out my samples to my packaging company and they're going to figure out the box size and then we're kind of like taking it from there. It's awesome. One thing I will say on that, and Ray sometimes asks me, you know, parting words, so don't ask me because I'm giving them to you now, Ray. But this really applies to all brands. But when you're doing your master case pack size, remember that a lot of retailers want free fills. So if you have a 12 case pack, you know, in your case pack, that's what you're going to have to give a retailer when you launch into their stores. A lot of them want one case per store per SKU. If you can launch with a six case pack, you know, six unit case pack, that's way better for your, you know, overall when launching into retailers. So just something to consider. Thank you. No, for sure. I appreciate that.
[00:12:47] Ray Latif: Gina, if I were an investor, I would ask, do you have any kind of patent or trademark or, I mean, trademark, it seems like you might have that with Pantry Gems, but do you have any patents on the packaging itself?
[00:12:57] Mia Medina: I don't, and I've looked into it, and it doesn't seem like there's a way to patent it yet, but I'm in talks with other lawyers, so we'll see.
[00:13:06] Ray Latif: The other question I would have is about co-packers. Your price point is relatively high. I mean, given what tomato paste costs in the supermarket, you might buy a jar it's going to cost you, buck to two bucks. So six for $10 seems a little bit high right now. What's your search been like for co-packers? Again, this is a relatively novel concept, but I think that if you could find one that could help you reduce costs pretty dramatically, that would be to your benefit going forward.
[00:13:43] Mia Medina: Yeah, I actually love talking about this because I found my co-packer in such a unique way. First of all, in general, finding a co-packer is so hard. There's no exact database. You just have to do a bunch of searches. And I ended up posting in a Slack channel, and my co-packer found me. Tony from Nakinoku, shout out, because he's amazing. He's in Chicago. And he is essentially like a middleman type co-packer, where he'll do smaller MOQs. And he was helping me figure out my prototype. I did talk to a couple of bigger ones, but the MOQs are 100,000. So I'm just not there yet. That feels too big. I'm trying to ease into this. So I'm doing my first run, however many runs that is, with Tony. And we're kind of just taking it from there. But you're right. The price will go down with a bigger co-packer.
[00:14:38] Ray Latif: Again, I think this is such a brilliant concept. And I think you've got just a ton of runway with it, as long as the price point is in line with what people expect for a product like this tomato paste, that is. But it also seems like you've got other products in the pipeline as well. We're out of times. I can't believe this. They don't give us enough time here, but one, one day at a time. So let's, let's, let's, let's kill it with tomato paste. And then we'll talk about everything else as it comes up. But Gina, thank you so much for coming out to our San Diego event. Thank you so much for introducing yourself to me. And, and I really love what you're doing and I would love to stay in touch. So please do. So let us know if we can help in any way as you continue along your journey.
[00:15:24] Mia Medina: Thank you so much, Ray. This was so awesome for me to be on here. Thanks for having me.
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[00:15:46] Ray Latif: Artificial intelligence is reshaping every corner of the beverage industry, but where is it creating real value today? Stay tuned till the end of this episode for a bonus interview when I sit down with Andrew Krizis and Lucinda Aquat of VIP to explore how AI is moving beyond analytics to automate decisions, improve efficiency, and transform the three-tier system. All right, great start to the show. Let's keep it going with our next guest. That's Ricard Blomberg, who is the founder and CEO of Burski. Ricard, great to see you.
[00:16:25] Speaker 2: Yeah, great to see you, Ray. I think we met last time when you were at an event in Austin with my dear friend Bella from Better Sour.
[00:16:36] Ray Latif: Yes.
[00:16:37] Speaker 2: She introduced us, yeah. Our kids used to go to the same school, in the same class actually, so it's nice.
[00:16:43] Ray Latif: Yeah, Bella Hughes, just a spectacular person, one of the co-founders of a Better For You candy brand called Better Sour. It is just remarkable stuff. Berski is a brand that my colleague Mike Schneider can't stop talking about. He loves what you're doing. Tell us all about the brand.
[00:17:02] Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks. And pleasure to meet you also, Nia. Pleasure to meet you. Yeah, you too.
[00:17:07] Mia Medina: And thank you so much for sending samples ahead of time.
[00:17:09] Speaker 2: I really appreciate it. It's great. Yeah, glad you got them. Glad you got them. Yeah, so let me tell you about Berski. So we make ancestral blend beefsteaks. I'm going to tell you the reason why we started it. So I have a co-founder as well, Alex Rychinski, who's a holistic health practitioner. My background is actually that I've been, for the past 16, 17 years, been in charge of the growth and establishment of my family business, Eleiko, where we sell fitness equipment to colleges and universities, professional world championship games in weightlifting and powerlifting, a lot of home gyms and all that. So we have a very high-end fitness equipment brand. So I've been working with a lot of college and professional team strength coaches and athletes all across the US. And I had this idea about developing a really good protein bar that was going to be, you know, the best protein bar on the market was my idea. And I started talking here with my friend in, so I'm living in Austin, Texas right now for the past five years. Before that I was in Chicago, but moved down here five years ago. And I met a great guy, holistic health practitioner, Alex Rubichinsky, and we started talking about, can we somehow develop a really, really good protein bar? And as we looked at it, we looked at all the what's out on the market traditionally, and there's a lot of really kind of garbage stuff in a lot of these protein bars. We said, how can we make it as natural as possible in a very convenient way that is full of nutrients and minerals? And that's just kind of the the beginning of burrski. So we said let's just make a natural beefsteak. Let's put some organ meats in there as well because they're highly nutritious. A lot of minerals and good stuff in like liver and heart. But also we want to make it really tasty as well. So we want to find some really good high quality beef. Start with we found a fantastic supplier up in the Pacific Northwest who provides us grass-fed, grass-finished, pasteurized beef that are grown on regenerative farms. Never been on a feedlot, just the best beef out there. And then we found a lovely Copacker, that is always a tricky one. We obviously had to go through a couple of different searches for that. We finally found a really, really good one who was able to make a beefsteak that doesn't have any additives whatsoever. So there's no citric acid, there's no other preservatives or anything. It's just celery powder, celery salt in there as a natural nitrate. So it's an incredibly natural product. So I think you feel that when you taste it. We also made sure to develop one that was very natural in flavor, which is the salted flavor. You can kind of taste a little bit of the liver flavor, but it's very, very pure. And then we have a salt and pepper, which is a little bit more on the spicier side. And I think that that's my personal favorite. My daughter's favorite is the salted one because it's less spicy. Yeah, so that's kind of been the growth of Berski. And now we're established in the great city, great CPG hub of Austin, Texas. And we started going into a lot of local, little small retail stores here. So we're about, we're probably in around 15 stores right now in the Austin area. No major change or anything like that. We do have one national account right now, which is Sunlife Organics, which is a very high-end premium smoothie store. So they have our products in all their stores nationwide right now. So that's our first one. So yeah, that's where we stand right now.
[00:21:12] Ray Latif: Very cool stuff. Mia, did you get to try the products?
[00:21:15] Mia Medina: The salt and pepper one was, I preferred that one. Um, I, like, I think the liver is going to be super polarizing, right? Because there's just a hint of it. If you like it, I I'm totally fine with it. But I think if you like liver, then you're, it's going to be like, people are going to rush towards this. But if you don't like it, then I think it could be off-putting. That was just my, you know, two cents there. But I really liked that you have the, the salt and pepper one because I think that that sort of masks it to your, you know, to your point. The consistency was also really nice. It wasn't, you know, it was very, like, not dry at all. And your packaging is gorgeous. And I really love, you know, the contrast of, you know, the ingredients, the salt being the lighter one and the pepper being black. And I think you've done a great job. I think the two SKUs is awesome. Are you going to be selling them individually as well?
[00:22:07] Speaker 2: Yes, we are. A lot of stores do that. So we have them obviously in the package of a one-ounce 12-pack and 1.9-ounce, almost like a two-ounce stick. We sell them in eight packs. So I would say not from our side, we wouldn't sell them individually, but if a store wants to sell them individually, yes.
[00:22:27] Mia Medina: Well, I guess maybe a package that they could merchandise where it would be, you know what I mean? Something like that, not the bag.
[00:22:35] Speaker 2: Yes, correct. That is actually something that we are working on right now. Okay.
[00:22:39] Mia Medina: The price is a little bit higher, which you're going to hear me say that all the time with any of these brands, unfortunately, is kind of just a, but again, we, you know, in the natural specialty industry, they can withstand that more than I think in conventional, right. So that's, and that's where these types of products are going to resonate first and most. So that's one of it, but you can really do a lot with an individual you know, a case pack that a retailer can put out and sell individually for that trial, you know, for that person to just do a trial purchase on that versus the multi-pack.
[00:23:10] Speaker 2: Yeah, and price point is actually something that we looked quite a lot at, and we actually have, I'm not sure entirely when you saw our last pricing, but we, later in the last week, we were able to lower the price, keeping the same consistency on the product, but lower the price with almost 25%, making it very competitive. It's still gonna be a little bit on the premium side because there is like, a limited amount of liver. It is a very, let's say, trendy product right now. There's a lot of demand for liver. So the silver is going to be a little bit on the higher premium side, and that's where we want to be as well. So we're not going to be like competing with the lowest brands, but I feel like we're in a pretty good spot now price-wise though.
[00:23:55] Mia Medina: Do you know any other brands, obviously this to your point is a competitive category, do you know any other brands that are putting liver or heart in their products? I'm not aware of any, so I was curious if that's your unique.
[00:24:09] Speaker 2: You're absolutely right. The beefsteak market is obviously an incredibly competitive market. That's our experience. And the jerky market in general is competitive. So we want to stay in this highly nutritious, very good quality meat, being very transparent on where we get the meat from and the fact that it is grass-fed pasture-raised as well. So it's not just grass-fed on a feedlot. So we want to make sure that we stay in that high premium price point. A couple of other ones we've seen it, but no one who's kind of taken it to a bigger scale, so to say. But we can see that there are some that started to use like an Ancestral blend in their sticks right now. So that kind of tells us that we're kind of on to something really good that people are going towards.
[00:24:55] Mia Medina: Exactly, that's your big differentiator. And when people ask why more expensive or why, that's great that you can back that up.
[00:25:04] Speaker 2: Yeah, correct. And we are also going to, we'll be on Amazon hopefully by the end of this week as well, or next week is our plan also. So that's been a process as well, getting into making the purchasing process a little bit easier.
[00:25:21] Ray Latif: Yeah, well, that's big and that'll be big for Berski for sure. Mia, I wonder about sort of the non-traditional retail opportunities for Berski. You know, you think about the sort of health and wellness consumers that are really focused on clean ingredient, beef sticks. I think about those fitness oriented folks that are at a GNC or a vitamin shop, you know, are those opportunities do you think for a brand like this?
[00:25:48] Mia Medina: Absolutely. I think those are absolutely it's obviously we don't work with those types of retailers. But I think this gives you that category. I think, again, there in thinking of some of these alternative categories outside of you know, the the gym, and that there's, this is a great one for like travel and food service. And you know, there's you have a ton of different opportunities to go with this outside of just traditional retail.
[00:26:14] Ray Latif: Yeah, Ricard, we're almost out of time. I also think that sort of the influencer strategy that you have is going to be really important. Getting the message out there, getting the word out there. I'm on your Instagram page right now, and I see that you've worked with a few folks. What's been your strategy? How do you identify folks that can help you amplify and optimize what you're doing on social media?
[00:26:34] Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, you're absolutely right. That has been kind of the key from the moment. That has been one of those, like, hey, we got to get the brand going. We got to make sure that people use it and that we have influencers that are using it. And it's been a very kind of organic growth. I mean, people have been requesting it and everybody who's tried it are like, Ben loves it. So it's an easy thing to have an influencer, you know, they try it and they're going to love it and they're going to kind of get a little bit, It's almost like we have had people that can almost get addicted to it because their body's been craving these minerals and nutrients that are in the product. So they start feeling how good they feel when they eat it. But definitely the influencer side and having like ambassadors and we kind of creating a tribe of Berski people that promote our product, that is very important and will continue to be an important part of our strategy moving forward as well.
[00:27:29] Ray Latif: Absolutely. Finding your tribe is something I hear a lot from successful entrepreneurs, folks who have identified a group of people that can help really get the word out about what they're doing and do it in a very authentic way. Ricard, I think you're off to a great start. Thank you so much for joining us here on Elevator Talk. Please let us know if we can help in any way. Just stay in touch. And also, if you happen to be considering a trip to Los Angeles in early December, I would highly recommend considering our Nosh Live LA event that's happening on December 4th and 5th. It's a real great hub for leaders in the food and beverage industry, retailers, investors, consultants, distributors, everyone's going to be there. So that message is not just for you. It's for everyone who's joining us today and everyone listening or watching at home. So once again, thank you so much for being on the show.
[00:28:24] Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Ray. Thank you so much, Mia. Thank you.
[00:28:27] Mia Medina: Thank you. Great to meet you.
[00:28:29] Ray Latif: All right. On to our next guest for this episode of Elevator Talk. We have Paul Lazzera and Katie Sarna, the co-founders of Benni Pops. Paul, Katie, great to see you again.
[00:28:41] Mia Medina: Good to see you again, too. Hi, Mia. Thanks so much for your insights. We're really stoked. I'm Katie.
[00:28:47] Speaker 3: I'm Paul.
[00:28:48] Mia Medina: And we're the co-founders of Benni Pops, and we just launched in May of this year. And we handcraft just sweet enough dairy-free pops that deliver nostalgic joy without the junk. They're an indulgent grab-and-go treat that satisfies your sweet tooth with a bonus boost from functional extracts like lion's mane, chaga, cordyceps, and reishi to help you focus, stay energized, and boost your immunity.
[00:29:12] Ray Latif: I met Katie at our San Francisco meetup, and I was doing a bunch of live podcast interviews at the event, and it got really, really hot in that room. And as soon as I was done with the interviews, Katie came up to me and she's like, hey, you look really hot. And I go, oh, thank you very much. I thought I was dressed well. And she goes, no, you're sweating like a pig, Ray.
[00:29:39] Mia Medina: You were putting in overtime. More than water.
[00:29:43] Ray Latif: Yes. But she offered me one of these incredible Benni Pops to soothe my throat, which I had been talking for a while, and to cool me off. And I was just so happy that she did, because it was exactly what I needed. And these pops have a beautiful smiley face on them. And you bite into them, or you get into them, and they taste so good. And then you realize, oh, it's handcrafted with superfoods and adaptogens. Totally right place, right time. And I also think that this is a product that, I don't know, I just love what you're doing. And I know you were able to send some samples to me as well. Mia, I hope you had the same experience that I did. Maybe you weren't sweating like a pig like I was in San Francisco, but.
[00:30:27] Mia Medina: Thank God. Although, Ray, I've seen you really in action, so I know. You should just carry a cooler around with you. Seriously. But no, thank you so much. I realize how expensive it is to ship frozen samples. So I really, as you know, starting out like that, I know that's a big expense, so I really appreciate it. And I was very careful to make sure they got right into the freezer. And then we tried them and I have a 10 year old. And so, you know, I always wanna get his take. I did, you know, it's funny because I was like, oh, it's like a kid's thing or, you know, because of the packaging, but realized very quickly, it's totally, you know, it's all use. I really, it's playful. It's, the flavors were amazing. So, you know, right there, I think you guys have done a really good job with that. I think it's so cute that it is a smiley face. I don't know what that, costs from the mold and all of that stuff. So I think it's definitely, and I haven't seen anything like it. I haven't seen anything else in the frozen category. You see all of these drinks with all of the adaptogens and things like that. So I'm excited to hear a little bit more about how you kind of came up with it and who your target consumer is where that's concerned.
[00:31:43] Speaker 4: Yeah, so it all started, we were growing gourmet mushrooms on our small mushroom farm about three years ago. And we were really just trying to like experiment and pack mushrooms into every aspect of our diet. And then I made a mushroom mousse with lion's mane, which was really good. But unfortunately, the storage of them, they ended up going bad pretty quickly. And that's when Katie was like, what if we froze them into popsicles? And it was pretty immediate that we realized we'd created something really delicious and worthy of sharing with the world. So it was a pretty exciting moment.
[00:32:17] Mia Medina: that's awesome yeah and i would say like our target i mean i can see where you like instantly thought kids but also like we're trying to add joy in everyone's life regardless of age whether you're eight years old or 80 like we just i think it's just like everybody needs a little bit of happiness in their life so that's what we're trying to achieve with a smiley face but i can see like how but yeah kids definitely gravitate towards it And then I think our target market, I would love to say anyone that wants to eat a Popsicle, but like realistically, it's people that are seeking a treat that's like, like scratches that sweet tooth itch, but isn't like a sugar bomb. Because like for me, like, yeah, that's what I'm hoping for. And then what's the SRP on these? Yeah, so great question. So what to go back to that day in San Francisco, so I handed it to him. And Ray asked me that. And I was like, Oh, well, we retail for like 599 to 799. He goes, Oh, no one's gonna buy them for 99 for this. And I was like, Oh, and I was like, it was so true, because that's not the first time I heard it. But I love that it was like, honest feedback. And I was like, Oh, shoot. All right. So that's one of the things that we're gonna tackle this winter is actually reducing the pop size by about 33% and that will get us to about the 4.99 or lower SRP. And that's per unit? Yes. So then from a retail perspective, you'll go, I'm just trying to think where you live, right? Because you're used to seeing popsicles in a multi-pack. where does this live? Thankfully, I mean, I have done a lot of research, there are a lot of other brands, especially Pauletta's that are sold single and we have had like good sales velocity as a single because I think it is a grab and go treat. So it's like, sometimes when you get those multi packs, you're like, Oh, shoot, what am I going to do with the rest of these three? So it's like we are more of a like a convenience cooling treat. Yeah. I mean, I think that that will be, that would be great because obviously if you have four of those and you're looking at like a $20 multi-pack, that would be really tough. But yeah, I mean, I think that's probably going to be your biggest hurdle is to drive trial, but I think that the concept is there. And then the only other question I had or suggestion is maybe putting, I love the packaging and I think you've done great, but maybe putting some of, the some of the actual ingredients and adaptogens on the front somewhere, you know, to kind of call it because it does say handcrafted with superfoods and adaptogens. But it's not you don't go right to it. And I think that's such a, such a major selling point. Because to me, I'm like, Oh, wow, this is not just a popsicle. You know, you've got your outshines and those sort of healthier kind of trying to be healthier, they have tons of sugar, too, by the But I think that that's such a differentiation for you to be able to do it without cluttering it. And again, I'm no design expert. You're probably way better versed at that than I am. But yeah, I appreciate that because I think that's really where our one of our biggest challenges right now is finding that balance between this like taste is first and flavor like this tastes good. But then I think sometimes people get a little scared or nervous about the mushrooms where they're like, oh, is it overpowering? So that's where we're struggling. We're going to redo our packaging this winter as well of like Popsicle tasty first, then secondary functional mushrooms. And sometimes people get freaked out when we put the mushrooms on the front. Awesome. No, they were amazing. And I really appreciate you sending samples. Oh, thank you so much.
[00:35:42] Ray Latif: Yeah, so two things. One, I hope I didn't come across as crazy when I was talking about the price point. I tried to be like, I think, you know, four dollars is an appropriate price point for a single serving of this. I think especially given all that's inside of it, I think. Now that I'm looking at the package a little bit more closely, your statement of identity at the very bottom is frozen herbal supplement. I know you mentioned you're going through a packaging revamp, but how much of this is marketed to people who are looking for a functional benefit as much as they are looking for an indulgent, delicious treat? And I think sort of walking that line and finding that balance is going to be the key to your future.
[00:36:31] Mia Medina: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I agree. I think that's like something, that's why we were really stoked to get on here and also get Mia's insights because that's, we have to make these critical decisions, um, for next year, this winter. And we're really, it's kind of been honestly all over the place where people have suggested, like, get the mushrooms up in the front. That's what people are looking for. And other people are like, Nope, bury it on the back. Just make it really clear cut. This is the flavor you're getting. And then people turn it over and then they're like, Oh, these are the benefits. So yeah. I think that the consumers, especially, you know, your consumers are much more sort of educated now. Again, like I said, I focus in natural specialty. So in conventional, probably much less so and exactly what you're saying. But in natural specialty, I think people are now, they're aware like mushrooms aren't going to make them trip out and hallucinate. I think that they are more aware in this specific channel. So I get it. You have a fine line that you have to walk where you want to appeal to the greater mass. But at the same time, those that want those types of products in their body, you could really be grabbing earlier. So it is a tough one. It's a tough one. It might come down to where you guys want to launch and start.
[00:37:43] Speaker 4: That's also really good feedback too, because we did a lot of, uh, events where it was just kind of like mainstream, like art and wine festivals where most people who go there just want, if they're seeking a sweet treat, they're going to go get like conventional ice cream or, uh, pastries or cookies or something like that. So we got feedback from that where people were kind of like, eh, you know, I'm not here to be healthy.
[00:38:05] Mia Medina: Um, but I think they were like, Oh God, am I going to trip out on this?
[00:38:08] Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. So maybe that just wasn't the best, um, or really like the. specific to the kind of the audience we're actually seeking. So I appreciate that feedback.
[00:38:18] Ray Latif: Yeah. Mia, just in the limited amount of time we have left, you know, let's say that Katie and Paul are walking into Sprouts or a Whole Foods and they get in touch with a retail buyer and they say, OK, you know, would love a moment of your time or they get that meeting. What's the what's the what's the pitch look like? I mean, if you if you could Dial it down to, you know, a 10-15 second pitch. How would you advise them as to really get that person's attention and get them excited about what they're doing?
[00:38:50] Mia Medina: Yeah, I think knowing your category incredibly well, obviously knowing, you know, anything to do with any competitors out there, why you're different, and then knowing where you live on shelf, that's always a really good one. You know, again, in my, I'm just blanking right now. I've seen Sprout set a thousand times. I just don't in my brain see individual popsicles anywhere. So I'm like, how are they gonna wanna multi-pack? So really doing your research on what they're currently carrying helps a ton. And then if you do have any accounts that you're in, or selling into as small as fine, knowing the numbers that you're doing there, your velocities, where we've got repeat customers, we've got this, anything coming from online as well. And then sharing your feedback from the events that you're sampling at. What are you hearing people say? That's really important. We just pitched an ice cream to Sprouts. And they were doing a lot of these events and had some great feedback. And consumer, they want to know that too. So I think just really knowing that category.
[00:39:48] Ray Latif: Yeah, that's excellent advice. I sat down with the founder of a brand called Harkin Sweets. Her name is Katie Lefkowitz, and it's a brand of better for you candy bars and so on. And she actually got a yes when she walked in and got her meeting with a Walmart buyer. And so she got a yes in the room. And it's because, and she mentioned this in our interview, She knew that category inside and out. She knew all the distributors for that point of sale or that cash register area where a lot of the candy bars are sold. She knew the competitive set. And because she was armed with all this information and she had a great product and brand, the buyer was like, how could I not say yes? And so I think that's such excellent advice. It's not just know who your consumer is, but know the set and know the set in the retailer that you're trying to pitch to. Great stuff. Well, I could talk about Benni Pops for another two, three hours, and I think I would really enjoy those two, three hours, but we're out of time. Paul, Katie, thank you so much. Thanks so much for coming out to our San Francisco event. We're planning to be back in that amazing city in 2026. But in the meantime, if there's anything we can do to help along your journey, any introductions we can make to retailers or folks like Mia, please let us know and we'll do what we can.
[00:41:10] Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I appreciate you both.
[00:41:12] Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you both.
[00:41:14] Ray Latif: All right. I absolutely love this show. Isn't it great, Mia? Isn't it fantastic? I love it, Terry.
[00:41:20] Mia Medina: I'll just do your host every time. I love it so much.
[00:41:23] Ray Latif: It's so fun. It's so great. I mean, these people are changing the industry, literally one brand, one product at a time, and it's just fantastic. All right, on to our next guest for this episode of Elevator Talk. We have John Liu, who is the founder of QQ. John, great to see you.
[00:41:42] Speaker 3: Great to see you, Ray, and lovely to meet you, Mia. So I'm John. I'm the founder of QQ, and we make bouncy, chewy, rice-based pantry staples. So we're starting with our mochi pancake and waffle mixes in ube. So this is our packaging in ube, pandan coconut, and black sesame. So they're all made with California-grown rice flour. They're naturally gluten-free. So a little bit about the inspiration. I grew up in Taiwan and a lot of my family were rice farmers. So in Asia, there's obviously a lot of chewy, bouncy foods. Think mochi, rice cakes, boba. And actually as a fun fact, QQ is a phrase that's commonly used in Asia that describes that texture. kind of like how Italians say al dente. So I actually want QQ to also become part of the cultural vocabulary in the US. But when I moved to the US, I couldn't really find many rice based chewy foods beyond, you know, obviously, there's mochi ice creams in the freezer aisle. And I've always loved baking and cooking with rice flour. So, you know, pancakes, cookies, waffles, even pasta like anything I could sub rice fat into I would so that's really what inspired QQ and a little bit about our progress so far so I launched just about two months ago and we're mainly sold DTC online but I've also you know gotten us into around 65 now specialty retailers really to prove out that install velocity and actually this week we just launched into Northern California Safeways and also seven Andronico's markets in the Bay Area. So that's obviously, you know, Albertson's group's natural, I guess, chain in the Bay. And Mia, I love what you said, too, about growing methodically and sustainably. So, you know, I'm currently bootstrapping QQ from my own savings. I was in tech before this. So I'm especially excited to just get your thoughts on that front as well.
[00:43:41] Mia Medina: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I have to say it's funny. And looking at all of the I'm, I love your packaging, like the packaging is just so fun. Shameless, you know, shameless plug here or you know, not plug whatever. But I'm like, these are one of the samples I didn't get. And I was really sad about that.
[00:44:00] Speaker 3: On the way. I put them in the mail on Monday.
[00:44:05] Mia Medina: But I just think it is like, and again, Ray talks about, you know, all of the brands that we get to talk to and all this. And it's like, when you see such innovation like this, in a category like this, this, you know, kind of a stale category, right? Like, to see something like this, I've never have never seen anything like this before. It just is so exciting. And I think those are the kinds of really exciting brands that retailers like, you know, you hear when I was talking earlier about Gelson's, right, Gelson's is one of the retailers that they're always like, we want to be first to market. We want this, you know, so taking brands like that, and a lot of basically most of the brands that we talked to on here, right, being able to take those to our retailers that are looking for first market opportunities is so fun. So that being said, Your product looks amazing. I love mochi. I love all of that. So I can only imagine the pancakes taste great. I will then ask my standard question. What is the SRP? How do you compare? Obviously there's not, there's nothing else like it. So comparing it as difficult, but for knowing, talking about knowing the category, how do you compare it in the category as well?
[00:45:13] Speaker 3: Yeah so currently in DTC and then also some of the specialty retailers it hovers around $13 per unit and that makes about 16 pancakes so a good family size serving and then in conventional it's around $10.99 to $11.99 just depending on the outlet. Um, and then in terms of how that compares to, you know, standard pancake mixes, it's probably, you know, a couple dollars, three dollars more, um, which I think makes sense given obviously the... And obviously we're comparing to premium pancake mixes, not your, you know, Bisquick or whatever we're talking, you know, it's definitely... Exactly. Like probably, you know, one of the paleo birchbenders or something like that. Yeah.
[00:45:57] Mia Medina: And then, um, you're, it's interesting that you're, are you based in Northern California?
[00:46:02] Speaker 3: Yeah, we're based in San Francisco.
[00:46:04] Mia Medina: Oh, okay. Awesome. Because I was going to ask, it's interesting that you chose to launch with Safeway being conventional. I think Andronica does make a ton of sense there. So I'm curious, have you hit shelves in Safeway yet?
[00:46:17] Speaker 3: Yeah, so we're going to be hitting the shelves this week. And I think that that's definitely a great point. You know, obviously, I think when I first started out, given the more premium positioning of QQ, I felt like obviously a Whole Foods or, you know, another natural chain would probably be the obvious choice. I mean, that's definitely still potentially in the cards, hopefully next year.
[00:46:41] Mia Medina: Whole Foods is a long game, I will tell you that. So the fact that you've just launched and you've already got a major retail partner like Albertsons is amazing. And regardless of the channel, I still will, you know, advise, like lean into that partnership and relationship where you can really, you'll be able to sort of ascertain your velocities and things like that. A lot of people go from natural specialty into conventional and you kind of have to cut those numbers because you won't sell as much. So you can use those numbers and think you'll probably sell a little bit more because your core consumer is shopping in natural specialty. So that's great. Are you going through Kahey to get to Albertsons?
[00:47:19] Speaker 3: No, we're actually using pod distributors right now.
[00:47:23] Ray Latif: John also came to our San Francisco meetup and the entire room just smelled amazing. And everyone was like, where is that coming from? And it was pretty obvious because you were cooking up pancakes, you know, in the corner and everyone's just like, oh my gosh. And I just, I saw everyone eating them. Ironically, I didn't get to taste them, but no, don't, yeah, don't, don't worry. It was a busy night and I was very talkative and not unable to eat things, but it just feels like, Trial is going to be so important because not everyone's going to know about what mochi pancakes and waffles taste like. And if you can get into a store and just have people smelling it and so on and so forth, it goes a long way. So what is your demo strategy? What is your trial strategy?
[00:48:09] Speaker 3: Yeah, so definitely agree with you. I think, you know, with this product, I think it's a good balance of sort of putting a textural and cultural twist on an American breakfast classic. So at least with pancakes, people are familiar with, you know, the format. But definitely, I think with the flavors and the texture, it really does, you know, invite trial to really move that velocity off the shelf. So that really is going to be the forefront of our strategy for, you know, the Safeways and Andronicos. Um, so far I've also done, you know, a ton of samplings, just did one last week at pop-up grocer in New York and really saw, you know, that just lift. We sold out in the store, um, and we were number one in the category for, you know, sort of this quarter so far. So I I've really seen the trialing and the sampling pay off. I think people just don't really know what to expect until they try it and, and hopefully they love it.
[00:49:03] Ray Latif: Yeah, and you know, I know you're bootstrapped, John, but there are companies out there that do demos and handle demo strategy for companies. I don't know how effective they are. I don't know what advice Mia would offer in hiring those types of companies.
[00:49:21] Mia Medina: I think it's absolutely one of the things that when we approach a retailer, they want to know, especially again, because we work with a lot of, you know, newer innovative brands, they want to know that you're going to come in and there's so much consumer education that is needed, you know, here when launching a new brand like this. So they want to know that you're going to do demos, they want to know that you're going to support that because if they're going to cut space on the shelf to put you in you know they want to know how they're going to move product. I would that's a great I'm so glad you brought that up right because I do think that one of the things that. you can do because demos are so expensive, as I'm sure you know, and you will find very quickly, you just can't do them all yourself. But sharing those demos and finding certain agencies that will allow you to split that demo with somebody, you know, yours would pair very nicely with a juice company, or, you know, there's something like that. So that's always something to consider. And maybe talk to some of those demo companies out there about doing that to keep your costs down, but really get that education out there. But yes, Ray, I highly recommend building that into your budget. As I said, retailers will want to see what you're going to do to support that.
[00:50:29] Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a really good point. I think with pancakes too, there are so many, you know, different condiments that you can add. We've definitely, I've roped in some friends, like in New York, I'm quite good friends with the Sour Milk founders, the yogurt brand that's really taking Instagram by storm. And yeah, that was a great, you know, topping that even putting some sour milk on the pancakes also really helped move their velocity. So I think that that's a great idea.
[00:50:55] Mia Medina: Amazing. And then even like an ingredient company, you know, if you have a butter, I think it said you have to add, you add butter is one of the things that you add to it. So even finding a butter company that people don't want to taste butter, but if you're cooking it with the butter and you can demo it, you know, things like that. So it doesn't even have to be like an addition to, but anyway, really great.
[00:51:16] Speaker 3: Yeah. That's a great idea. I didn't think about the ingredients that you mix in, but I feel like also definitely going to sit down and think about that now.
[00:51:25] Mia Medina: Good for that. No pun intended.
[00:51:27] Ray Latif: From an Instagram standpoint, I'm on your page right now and the stuff that really pops out to me is the stuff which features the finished pancake or finished waffle. There's one post where someone's just squeezing three pancakes together and the caption is, get inside of me. And I'm like, I want that right now. Have you found that's the really effective way of getting people interested? Are those the most liked or most engaged posts?
[00:51:54] Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. I mean, I will say when I quit my job to start Kikyu, I did not think that I'd be spending so much time just filming myself squeezing pancakes on camera. I really do just maybe twice a day, just whenever I'm eating them, whenever I make them, I will rip open a batch and just do this for some b-roll so um yeah very it's not expected but um that's definitely been the type of post that really resonates with you know social media users i think just showing that texture even even if they can't you know taste it through the screen has been really effective so yeah definitely going to over index on those until i figure out how to do some asmr pancake making Oh my gosh, I've tried. Yeah, I need to get one of the small mics and just sort of like, you know, squeeze it, pour syrup on it, slosh it around. Yeah.
[00:52:45] Ray Latif: I'm starving. I am so hungry right now.
[00:52:48] Speaker 3: Amazing. Well, I'll need to send you some too, right? I'm sad you didn't get to try them in essence.
[00:52:53] Ray Latif: No, it's my fault. It's my fault. I should be in New York at some point in the next few weeks and I'll have to swing by Pop-Up Grocer. I want to get into this place where we're buying more product than just getting samples because it's really important to support early stage entrepreneurs. But John, it's been so great having you on the show. Thank you so much. Please stay in touch as you continue to grow and get into new retailers. We want to know about it. We want to talk about it on Nosh and beyond. So just please keep us in the loop and excited to see what's next.
[00:53:26] Speaker 3: Awesome. Yeah. Thank you so much, Ray. Thank you, Mia. Have a great day.
[00:53:30] Speaker 5: Taste Radio meetups are continuing in Chicago, San Diego, San Francisco, and London. Come hang out with the food, beverage, and beer community for live podcast recordings, CPG networking, and sample sharing.
[00:53:42] Mia Medina: Want to attend or partner with us? Head to Taste Radio.com slash meetups. Quick pause to let you know that the leading event for the beverage industry is headed back to Los Angeles this December 6th through 8th.
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[00:54:03] Mia Medina: Early registration pricing is available now. Head to bevnetlive.com to register. Mark your calendar. Nosh Live is back December 3rd and 4th in Los Angeles. Join packaged food founders, buyers, investors, and operators for two days of product discovery and conversations focused on what's next. Early registration pricing is available now. Head to noshlive.com to register.
[00:54:25] Ray Latif: All right, on to our final guest for this episode of Elevator Talk. We have Helen Li, who's the co-founder of Superlova. Helen, it's great to see you.
[00:54:34] Speaker 5: Hi. Hi, Ray. It's nice to meet you. And you as well, Mia. My name is Helen, and I am the co-founder of Superlova. We're a small batch Chinese-inspired sauce brand from San Diego. So our core belief is that convenience shouldn't mean sacrifice, especially when it comes to taste, quality, and definitely not health. So we make sauces that are ready to eat for home cooks and adventurous foodies who love real food but don't always have the time to spend on lengthy prep. So with Superlova, you can just take whatever that's in your fridge and make an incredible in a matter of seconds just by drizzling, tossing, or dolloping. So we currently have two flavors. We have our Dan Dan sauce and our Mei Mei sauce. Our Dan Dan sauce is this one right here. It's spicy, it's tingly, it's nutty, and just think Sichuan chili crisp meets sesame butter. And you can use it not only on noodles, pasta, but you can also use it on burgers, meats, fish, veggies. You can use it as a spread, as a dip, paired with cheese. The possibilities are endless. And then the other product we have is the Meme sauce. And the Meme sauce, on the other hand, is not spicy. It's kids-friendly. It's nutty, creamy, and umami. And it's An instant glow up for any roasted veggies and I would say it's the cheat code to get you and your family to eat more vegetables. Our sauces are made with olive oil and a whole grain stone ground sesame paste that give the products this nutty flavor without any nuts in it. And we source our key ingredients from China to keep the flavors true to their roots. The products are free of any inflammatory oils, preservatives, MSG, because we believe in making products that we would feel good about feeding our own kids.
[00:56:57] Ray Latif: Unfortunately, I didn't get to meet you at our San Diego meetup, but my colleague, Jacqui Brugliera did. I don't think she's been able to put a jar down. She's just in love with what you guys are doing. In particular, the Don Don sauce we talked about in a recent episode. I just love that it's a product or that you have products that can just instantly turn basic noodles into a really delicious meal. I love that. I love that. And in fact, I was just having some noodles the other day. I'm like, these are really bland. I wish I had some soup over here. Not asking for samples. Dumbness is not. No, no, it's fine. It's fine. Like I said, I will go to your website and buy one. But Mia, you know, it seems like we've seen an explosion. of jarred sauces that can enhance a meal or basically create a meal. I think the big question is, how do you stand out in this exploding space? Right?
[00:57:56] Mia Medina: Yeah, I totally agree. First of all, thank you so much, Helen, for sending samples. Apparently I need to be attending these San Diego meetups because I'm missing out on so much.
[00:58:06] Ray Latif: So let me know about that, Ray. We'll be back soon.
[00:58:10] Mia Medina: Amazing. I'll definitely be there. So anyway, thank you so much. I did get my samples and I actually was like, when I opened them, I was so hungry. I just dug in with a spoon because I was like, I just want to get the full effect. Obviously, I was very moderate with it, but the flavor profiles are amazing, and I can see why Jackie is not able to put them down. I did use the Don Don on salmon, and I will tell you that it was amazing. So that was great. I think that what's interesting, and when you say, how do you stand out? I think your packaging is so fun, and I think there is, I think there's, there was like there's like, it's almost like a misconception like oh is it too busy or is it but like everything that you have on here is useful information. kind of makes you want to read through it, which, you know, is it's that's what's done very well and differently than a lot of things that are just super loud and how I have it right here, but super loud and have, you know, but I really love, you know, the information noodles, pasta, veggie, meat and fish dumplings. It has all of the things on the side. It's got your no seed oil, your nuts, your, you know, I think it's just So it's done so well and I think that is one of the things and they're very differentiated which is super nice too because I think a lot of times brands can come in with these, you know, a little bit busier packaging and then you can't tell the difference between the two so you've differentiated the colors enough. really, really a huge fan. So great job there. I'm super impressed. Again, I'm not a designer, but I'm just giving you my two cents. So, you know, I think that's where we also then have to go to on shelf, right? Like this is the type of thing that I will stand, I think will stand out on shelf. Where do we compare with our retails? How do we compare? What is that looking like?
[01:00:04] Speaker 5: You know, I actually spoke with another CPG veteran who asked me the same questions, like if we were to go into bigger retails, which we're not in currently, we're in smaller specialty stores and poppy pop grocers. We're in quite a few of them across the country through FAIR. And we sell DTC and we're on a major like a e-commerce grocer as well called Milk Street. But when it comes to a major retail, the question is where would our products go? Because the categorization is a little bit difficult because it's not it. It does so many things. It's so much more than just a chili crisp. So to put it next to a chili crisp, it would kind of downplay what it can do. But because it can be used as a dip as well. You can put it on so many different things. So that has kind of been my question as well. Like, how do we position ourselves once we reach out to retailers to try to get into one? And also, there's been some questions asked about the packaging itself, not in the design, but in the format. jar because it also brings the question like how it's used, right? But the challenging part is that we use sesame paste and it's like a very different product from tahini. It's an Asian sesame paste. It uses the whole grain of the sesame. It's delicious, but there's an issue with the texture because it settles after a while and it needs to be stirred up. So that's why it's in jars and not in a squeeze bottle because in a squeeze bottle, you can't really stir it. So, but this is the kind of product that you almost want to put in a squeeze bottle because you want to just, you know, squeeze it on your like on bread or it's also easier for people to use. That's a comment that I've heard before from, um, from some people in the industry. So I would love to get your take on that.
[01:02:29] Mia Medina: I think as far as where it lives, again, that's one of the things that, you know, you can get that information by, you know, we had talked about Seaside Market, you're in San Diego. So, you know, I could see that being a really good testing ground, right? There's also a lot of opportunity to say, okay, we're next to the Chili, and then you get another retailer, a small retailer, you know, and you're, let's say you're next to, you're an ethnic, so you're an ethnic in one, you're next to the Chili Crisp in another. There's also cross-promotion. I could see this being in like meat and seafood, just getting put up on the counters and things like that. So I think getting some of those smaller accounts, it sounds like you're in a few and trying to get a good idea of where you are so that when you do go to larger accounts, you say, well, we don't sell as well. Shockingly, in the Chili Crisp, I would really like to be here. And that way, you're kind of telling them where to go. That will always, I think, they want you to do that homework first. That would be a really good way to get some testing ground, which is these one-off retailers. Then like I said, the pricing will also, how do we compare? If we're higher, then what do we have to show that we're worth being a higher price and what differentiates us there? I think the jar makes sense. One of the things I hate about jars, and it's just unfortunate, is that it gets on the top, because I'll shake it, and it gets on the top, and then when you open it, and then it drips down the side. It's just, there's nothing you can do about it. It's just a thing. You could, I mean, I see the idea, like we have a dressing, a salad dressing that we work with, and they have a bottle with a wider mouth, something like that, if you're looking to be more of a marinade or something like that. But you do have so many uses and purposes. that I think it's really kind of seeing where you sell best on shelf with a couple of test markets.
[01:04:20] Speaker 5: Okay, that's a great idea to test that out first and then determine kind of which way the packaging should go based on that. Okay, that's great.
[01:04:30] Mia Medina: Obviously, Ray, I know you're familiar with this as well. So any feedback?
[01:04:34] Ray Latif: I mean, in terms of the package type, I think it's almost something when you're doing demos, if you do have a squeeze bottle versus the jar and just ask customers or people who are trying the product, which would you prefer? Just getting as much information as you can and getting a wide sample of feedback from folks. But at the end of the day, It really is going to depend on the retailer. The retail buyer is going to tell you, yes, we'll carry this as a jar. Yes, we'll carry this as a squeeze bottle. I would assume that they're going to have some serious input on that. Maybe they wouldn't carry you as a squeeze bottle. Maybe they're like, we will only carry you as a squeeze bottle. being able to talk to those folks and get meetings is really important. But, you know, Mia gives great advice in that, you know, start with the small folks, start with the seaside where you can actually probably, you know, bend their ear for more than like a minute or even just get a meeting in the first place and see where it lives in their store, see where it might fit in there on their shelves, and then build off of that information, build off of that traction that you might have in those retailers to get into a larger one. You know, for me personally, I think, you know, the jar format is just so ubiquitous. I think that's probably the right place to be right now. Although I do agree if I'm cooking or if I'm, you know, squeezing this onto a sandwich, you know, a bottle could make a ton of sense too. So it's a tough question.
[01:06:06] Speaker 5: Yeah. It's also which format would get the customers to use it up faster.
[01:06:10] Ray Latif: Yeah, which is why, you know, I think that, you know, when you're doing a trial, maybe have both on hand just to see which, you know, and just ask the customer, you know, what do you think would be easier? What do you think would fit best into your home? And they'll give you some good feedback. Usually people are pretty honest, at least that's what they, entrepreneurs have told me that people at trials and at demos are often brutally honest about how they feel about a product or brand, so. continue to do those. And I think you'll find out pretty quickly where the customer is leaning.
[01:06:44] Speaker 5: Okay, great.
[01:06:45] Ray Latif: Yes. Well, I mean, I, you know, again, we don't have enough time, but Helen, thank you so much for joining us on today's episode of Elevator Talk. Let's continue this conversation offline. And if there's anything we can do to help along your journey, if you have more questions, just reach out anytime. We'll do our best to answer them or connect you with folks who can.
[01:07:06] Speaker 5: Thank you so much. It's great meeting you. Thanks, Helen.
[01:07:11] Ray Latif: Oh, man, I want to cry because we've had such a good show. And I feel like the future of the food industry is in such good hands with so many amazing entrepreneurs who are doing really cool things, whether it be in terms of a particular category or in packaging or ingredients. Just making sure that, you know, if there is a particular set that is ripe for innovation, that that innovation is actually happening right now, you know, with these small emerging brands. So very, very exciting stuff. Mia, thank you so much for joining us again on Elevator Talk. We have to have you back soon. This is our last food-focused episode of the year, but I'm definitely gonna be hitting you up in 2026, maybe more than once.
[01:07:58] Mia Medina: Thank you so much. And to the entire team, you guys, everybody at Nosh is amazing. And to all of these amazing brands, to your point, I could go on for days. So thanks for having me.
[01:08:10] Ray Latif: Yeah. Well, you know, for folks who want to stay in touch with you, Mia, what's the best way to get in touch with you and the team?
[01:08:14] Mia Medina: Very easily. Just shoot me an email. My email is just Mia at gatherbrands.com.
[01:08:19] Ray Latif: Perfect. Well, Mia, thank you once again for joining us on Elevator Talk. Thank you to all of the amazing founders who joined us on the show today. For everyone watching or listening, we really appreciate it. And to our incredible team at BevNET, Nosh, and Taste Radio, the best in the business. Signing off for everyone, I'm Ray Latif, and we'll talk to you next time. VIP has quietly powered the beverage industry for more than 50 years, trusted by more than 2,800 distributors and 1,400 suppliers. They have defined this industry time and again, and in this era of AI, they're leading the way. Today, we're joined by VIP CEO Andrew Krizis and Head of Sales Lucinda Awkwot to discuss where the industry is headed and what customers can expect next. Andrew, it's great to see you. How are you? Good. Thanks for having me, Ray. Lucinda, how are you?
[01:09:16] Mia Medina: So great. Excited to be here.
[01:09:18] Ray Latif: Yes. And our audience is excited to hear about VIP's capabilities with AI because it is a topic that is top of mind for so many founders at this point. Andrew, as I mentioned, VIP has been around for over 50 years. Your background is pretty interesting because you bring so much to the table as CEO. How did you come to VIP?
[01:09:40] Speaker 6: Yeah, great question, Ray. And I think it does go back to the legacy of VIP. So I'm incredibly passionate about the beverage and alcohol industry, the broader CPG industry as a whole. So I spent the last 12 years plus working at Nielsen IQ, working with many of the suppliers that could be listening to this, distributors and retailers. It was about five years ago that I first interacted with VIP and it's actually a partner to Nielsen IQ. And so complimentary partnership was created and I got to know the company a little bit. I got to see the value of what VIP creates in the industry and how it helps support the three-tier system. And I was just blown away also by the people. by just the caliber of the talent, how respected they were in the industry, how much knowledge they had across the three-tier system. And so once I started to get to know the company a bit more, I saw just the opportunity for the technology to do so much more across the industry. And with AI, as we were talking about becoming really important and accelerating every day, every week, I started to realize it's a huge moment for AI and technology and more investment to come into VIP, really help our clients, help the suppliers, help the distributors and retailers, and transform how operations and the day-to-day work is getting done. So I just saw that as a great opportunity, both in the technology and AI side, leveraging all of my data background and knowledge in the industry, but then joining a group that has an amazing culture, an amazing team, and a ton of passion behind it.
[01:10:58] Ray Latif: Lucinda, when you came to VIP, you also came with a ton of experience. Just talk a bit about your background in this industry.
[01:11:06] Mia Medina: Yeah, thanks, Ray. So I like to say I was born and raised in the beer business, but I got here as soon as I could. Started when I was 21 with Boston Beer Company. I've worked in all three tiers of the three-tier supply chain over the last 20 years. And I showed up to the first day to the VIP office here in Burlington, and I felt like I should be asking for autographs because VIP is the only set of data and the only set of tools that I've ever used on any of the three tiers. So it was really remarkable to see the team of people that has built such an incredible organization and really built from the ground up over the past 50 plus years that VIPs existed. So I'm honored to be here, a part of the team now to help carry the sales team into the future with all this new, authentic work that we're going to talk about.
[01:11:52] Ray Latif: Andrew, let's just start off by talking about where the beverage industry is headed right now in broad terms and why AI is such a critical strategic investment for founders and businesses.
[01:12:02] Speaker 6: You know, I think about whether you're a small supplier or distributor or a large supplier, you know, the beverage alcohol space. You could be only have a few people at your company or hundreds at the end of the day, everyone's looking for efficiency, whether you're three people within your company and you're stretching yourself to try to do five jobs. Or again, you're a larger company with maybe 10 people in the finance department. You're all trying to find better ways to do what you're doing so you can drive more product to consumers. So AI is just coming at this perfect moment over the last six to 12 months where everyone needs it. Everyone needs it for similar reasons, for inefficiencies, whether it's helping you run some reporting, it's helping you with pricing, it's helping you optimize something. At the end of the day, there's never enough hands and arms within a company when you're building a brand. And I've experienced that, you know, working with hundreds and hundreds of founders over the last 12 years in my past role with Nielsen IQ. And I see that with VIP. So I think all of the industry, both suppliers, distributors, retailers, are looking at AI to try to understand how can I drive more efficiency? How can I drive a better delivery of my service or product to the end customer? And how can I do it in a way that's going to set me up for success? But now many people are taking it in different ways. You know, AI isn't something that's just intuitive and you throw on a chat bot and all of a sudden you're up and running. So it's really interesting to see how suppliers are leveraging AI, how distributors are leveraging AI, retailers, et cetera. And there's some fun nuances between those three.
[01:13:24] Ray Latif: When it comes to spending money on AI or otherwise, founders want to see a return on investment. And I'm curious about how you measure return on investment when it comes to AI. And also, there's so much hype about AI at this point. Where does hype meet reality? Lucinda, can you tackle both questions for me?
[01:13:43] Mia Medina: Yeah, great questions. So I think I'll tackle the ROI question first, because I think it will address the buzzword as well. But I think when you think about AI, I was thinking back to all these different technological advances and how they've impacted the industry all the way back to when we used to have rolls of quarters to get on the payphone. And then all of a sudden, cell phones helped to make us more efficient. Same thing with printers and then the internet. I think of AI in the same way. It will give us the ability to enable all of our teams to be that much faster, that much smarter, smarter by way of better insights from the data. So if we're able to take a sales report, a sales ranker, and extract out the insights that much faster and distill down to the actual accounts we should be spending our time in, that to me is an instant ROI. There's also back of house applications. We think we talked with our distributors about some of the features that are most important to them as we're building out our new agentic platform. And it's things like avoiding the fat finger on the order. We don't want 10, we want one. We don't want 100, we want 10. And so giving the teams the ability to capture those things in advance, I think is where we see the ROI. It also empowers our retailers to make better orders. So think of predictive ordering in an e-commerce platform like Connect. There is so many great things that we can do to empower across all three of the tiers using all of our agentic features that we have in place now. So if I'm a retailer, if I'm a distributor, if I'm a supplier, that's how I think about the ROI. And it really enables the humans to be better at their jobs. So that in itself, I think is the buzz. I encourage people to think about AI as more of a tool and a way to do their business, a way to go about seeking the outcomes they're looking for versus this buzzword of a tool. And I think when we all begin to embrace it much more, we'll see that firsthand as well.
[01:15:37] Ray Latif: Obviously, technology is moving faster than it ever has before. And it's incumbent upon VIP to provide technology that is keeping up with the times or in this case, keeping up by the day.
[01:15:48] Speaker 6: Yeah, I think you're spot on with it's evolving every day, every week, new models come out, Fable 5 came out for the second time. So it's a constant. It's been great. I've had a few conversations just recently with some distributors and suppliers. And when we talk about the investments, one of the things that came out clearly from our clients was they are interested, they are getting pressure to use AI. And so initially, you know, whether you're a founder on this call, a supplier or distributor, the thought process was, let's just take JetGBT, let's take Claude, let's just turn it on for everyone. And like, let's go get some insights. And you can get some gains and insights there. But ultimately, those clients came to us and said, hey, for us really to take advantage of this new technology and capability, we need VIP. We need VIP to do this within all the business processes because VIP is so foundational to the core operations, whether you're a distributor, whether you're on the supplier side, looking at your inventory and depletions. And so that's where we took it upon ourselves to say, let's look at the marketplace. Let's look at all the different providers out there and take a hard look at ourselves. And we made the decision to make a really sizable, significant investment into a new architecture with AI and an agentic first decision. And what that allows us to do is actually create not just agents and AI on top of legacy products, which again, that still adds some value, but it doesn't change the game. And so we said, let's go down the path of actually building for the next several years, not for the next two months or three months because a new model is to proceed something, but we need to have a new foundation. So VIPs made the biggest investment or one of the biggest investments we've ever made as a company. And that's gonna allow us to have magentic first platform, bring in many different types of data and create agents on top that again, aren't just giving you some insights, but I like to say are doing work. They're doing work for you as a supplier. They're actually making decisions on your behalf within certain guardrails. And then they're able to communicate for you. If you're a supplier, actually having these agents do work for you, communicate to your distributors, to your trading partners on your behalf. Again, I go back to my first point. Everyone needs more arms and hands, right? You never have enough people when you're a small player or a large player. And so actually being able to do some of that work, communicate digitally to distributors, whether it's pricing, whether it's something related to inventory, whether it's shipments, and likewise distributors having agents that can interpret and engage and make decisions on their behalf, and then communicate to their trading partners. That's where we're going as VIP with AI. We think we play a really central role into that core operational element of how the three tier system works. But we were also cognizant that that takes real investment. It's not just lipstick. on an existing product and putting in a chat bot and saying, oh, everything's AI. It's really looking at the foundation of what's needed. So much has changed just in the last six months, where whether you're a software or data company, what you had built maybe two years ago, even 12 months ago, almost becomes irrelevant from an architectural standpoint, just because the last six months. So that level of investment is something we're fully driving towards and working with a lot of clients on both the distributor and supplier side of how we bring this new platform to life. And at the same time, though, we're still investing in our existing products. That is not stopping. So I think of it from a VIP standpoint, as we're going down both paths, we're investing in existing products, putting AI on top, kind of what I was mentioning with many others in the industry. But we're also going after this whole new architecture and whole new platform. And that's what's really required long term of the three tier system.
[01:19:12] Ray Latif: Whenever I talk to founders, operators about how they choose their partners, it really comes down to trust. And I think when you're talking about AI and the evolution of this technology, it's really important to trust your partner. And it seems like the level of expertise that you guys can provide to companies is just unmatched at this point. So I highly encourage folks to get in touch with the team at VIP. Lucinda, what's the best way to do so?
[01:19:39] Mia Medina: Yeah, thanks, Ray. We are so excited to hear from all our customers. We're getting questions every day, and I do think the best way to reach out to us is vipinsights.com. And go and submit a form, request a demo, send in a question, and we will be able to get back to you. But our sales team is talking with all of our customers all day, every day about this, and we're really excited to bring everyone more.
[01:20:01] Ray Latif: Outstanding. Well, Andrew, Lucinda, thank you so much for taking the time. I'm really excited for the future of AI and VIP's ability to help companies address this technology in a really effective way. So thanks again, and let's definitely stay in touch. Great. Thanks for having us, Ray.
[01:20:15] Mia Medina: Thank you, Ray.
