[00:00:00] Speaker: you
[00:00:05] Ray Latif: Hey folks, I'm Ray Latif, the editor and producer of BevNET's Taste Radio podcast. And you're tuning into the latest episode of Elevator Talk, a series that profiles early stage and disruptive brands from across the food and beverage industry. Today's episode will focus on five food brands whose entrepreneurs will have an opportunity to hear feedback and advice from our co-host for this episode. That's Allison Ball, the founder of Food Biz Whiz. Allie, it's so great to see you again. I'm so happy to be back. Thank you so much for once again hosting Elevator Talk. You are a champion of this show. And I mean that in the sense that you are doing so much for the early stage food and beverage community. And you're also a champion of the show in that you know that we try to create opportunities for these brands to gain awareness and help scale their businesses, which is really difficult as you know. But that's a lot of what you do as well.
[00:01:04] Allison Ball: It's true. So over the past, gosh, almost 20 years now, I've been supporting early stage brands. I was a former grocery buyer turned wholesale strategist, and now I help brands, got for the past 12 years inside of our Retail Ready program, where we help brands understand how to get on wholesale, in wholesale accounts, how to grow sales once you're there, and how to speak the language of the grocery buyer. So Ray, at this point, we've helped over 3,500 brands across all categories inside of Retail Ready. And we just calculated that our brands have sold combined $1 billion, over a billion dollars. It's nuts.
[00:01:44] Ray Latif: That is crazy, wow.
[00:01:46] Allison Ball: It's so nuts. Yeah, my team kept recalculating the math and we're like, oh my God, for the past 10 years, we've had a brand a day join Retail Ready and combined a billion dollars in sales.
[00:01:59] Speaker 1: Amazing.
[00:02:00] Allison Ball: Of emerging brands, right? Like women-owned, minority-owned brands, self-funded brands, self-distributed brands. It's cool.
[00:02:08] Ray Latif: Yeah, well, we have a bunch of those on today's episode of Elevator Talk, and I'm excited for you to meet the founders behind those brands. As mentioned, you mentioned your Retail Ready program. I think it's a fantastic program for folks who are relatively new to the business or just at the starting point of scaling their businesses. Talk a bit about that program and how it helps brands operate.
[00:02:31] Allison Ball: Yeah, so Retail Ready is perfect for that founder or sales manager who is, you know, usually a couple months or a couple years into their business, and they're looking around and being like, I know I have a really great product. People love my product. And yet, Getting into wholesale accounts is harder than it should be. I feel overwhelmed by all the things I need to do in this industry. I don't know how to prioritize my time. And it feels like every time I'm talking to a wholesale buyer, it gets harder and harder. You know, they never call me back. I don't know how to contact them in the first place. Like, you know, what what's going on here. So it's for those brands who want to understand the landscape of wholesale, where they should be selling to get on that path to profitability, who they're selling to and how to connect with that audience, how to speak the language of the wholesale buyer. So literally like, how do you pitch? How do you follow up? What do you put on your sell sheet? How do you create those promotional materials while you're pitching? And then, okay, you got on the shelf. Now what? Like you and I know that's when the real work begins. So the last third of our program is all about how do you increase sales once you're there? Maybe that's through distributor relationships, maybe brokers, maybe in-person marketing like trade shows, maybe demo strategy, promo strategy. What is it to sell in the accounts that you're working so hard to get? So Retail Ready is a month to month membership. You join and you stay as long as you want. We have some brands who have stayed for a decade and other brands who come in and, you know, they're in and out in about 90 days.
[00:04:07] Ray Latif: And in addition to that, you've got a free program that you're launching the week of March 16th. It's called Wholesale Week. Tell us about that.
[00:04:16] Allison Ball: Yeah, so this is the 11th time that we are running Wholesale Week, and it is five days of free lessons on growing in wholesale. So the lessons are 10 minutes a day. You can do them on your own schedule. You don't have to show up live for anything. And it's all of the essential strategies that I wish I could have taught to brands when I was a grocery buyer. So that's March 16th to 20th. You can find it linked on all my social profiles or foodbizwiz.com slash Wholesale Week. And Ray, let me tell you the best part about it. We are raising money for Project Potluck again. This is one of my favorite nonprofits in our space. They help connect people of color with mentors in the CPG industry. So for every registrant of Wholesale Week, we donate a dollar to Project Potluck. So at this point, we've raised over 5,000 bucks for them and are really excited to do that again in Wholesale Week.
[00:05:09] Ray Latif: you know, we talked about this last week, you didn't make it to Expo West, and I think, you know, given how wiped out I am from that show, I think you made the right decision. I gotta ask, you know, when people finally get out of that Anaheim Convention Center and say, wow, that was a great show, I always wonder, okay, so what's next? You know, how do you come out of Expo, you know, and you've obviously gotten years past, but how do you advise founders, to take advantage of all that they saw, did, the networking that happened at the show, and make sure that they're doing it in a way that's going to be effective post-event?
[00:05:49] Allison Ball: Yeah, that's a great question, Ray. So I'll speak to what you can do right now, but I also wanna talk about what you can do next time, because a lot of it, the success that happens after the show depends on what you do leading up to the show and what you do during the show as well. So I just wanna put this plug in if you're thinking about going to Fancy Food, maybe you're going to Newtopia now in August, I'll see you there, thinking about One, we always advise that people create their follow-up emails and templates ahead of time. So like weeks before you go to the show, you sit down and you write your follow-ups, you know, your templates for your follow-ups. You make sure that your sell sheet's dialed in, your promo strategy, your introductory pricing, like whatever, like fast acting deals that you wanna offer, that all of that is done before you go to the show. Because we know, Ray, like you probably get home like, you are right now and you are so exhausted that the follow-ups fall to the back burner. So I just want to say that. So for next time, do the, like, templatize everything ahead of time and you'll be feeling much better the week after the show. And then I also want to say for those of you who are coming home from the show right now and you're like, oh shoot, like, I haven't done my follow-ups yet. full permission from this former grocery buyer to wait to do the follow-up. When I would go to Expo West, I would come back, you know, and take five days off work, four days off work. I'd come back to my grocery desk. My inbox would be flooded with literally thousands of emails and it takes some time to get through them all. So know that if you just slow your roll a bit and you follow up next week, the week after, you actually are much more likely at the top of the grocery buyer's inbox than if you're like the person who's sending those follow-ups on the plane on the way home. So just full permission there to like pause a little bit. But then, You asked specifically about how do you capitalize on all the things that you've done. I'll say two things. One, it's so simple, but write it down. sit down, open up a Google Doc, what went well at the show, what you would do differently next time at the show, and all of the connections that you made, like sorting your business cards, sorting your LinkedIn connections, like creating that master spreadsheet of connections so they don't just wash away.
[00:08:23] Ray Latif: Excellent advice, which is why I asked you, Ali, what founders should do. And I think you're 100 percent right about maybe. taking a moment, a couple weeks, perhaps even slightly longer than that before you follow up with that buyer because yes, if you met a retail buyer at Expo, they're probably in the midst of thousands of messages and everyone's asking the same question, how do I get on your shelf? And so let them take a breath and then follow up and hopefully they'll remember you, but that's one of the biggest challenges throughout the industry is getting people to be aware of what you're doing, be excited about what you're doing. And again, that's a big part of what we do here at Elevator Talk is bringing awareness to early stage brands and making sure that the community knows that these fantastic folks are the faces of the new generation of CPG. And I'm really excited for you to meet or see some of those faces. Let's meet our first entrepreneur. Allie, are you ready? I am. Fantastic. That person is Mike Larkum. He's the co-founder of Sucasa. Mike, it's great to see you.
[00:09:27] Speaker 2: Great, thank you. Ray and thank you for inviting me. Really appreciate it. Thank you for being here. You're I've already got great notes. So, I'm already getting plenty from it. Really appreciate it. So, frozen burritos really started 15 years ago when my wife was pregnant with our 1st child. I was looking for something tasty and healthy and convenient to stock the freezer with and assumed that frozen burritos would be perfect. Who doesn't love a good burrito? And was surprised to find that there really just aren't any good frozen burritos on the market, but certainly none that fit all three of those criteria, tasty, healthy. convenient and struggled to find one that even ticked one of those boxes. So I made her some frozen burritos. They were good. They weren't great, but she ate them and that worked well. The idea was shelved for many years. Then a very good friend of mine and phenomenal chef Jim Hamilton were talking about frozen burritos and the plight of frozen burritos. And we challenged each other to make the best frozen burrito we can. And again, mine was good. His was very good. And we kind of played with it a bit, tested different tortillas and ingredients. How do these freeze? What works well? And then again, shelving, where we both travel quite a bit for work and just didn't have the time or really full. We certainly had the interest, but maybe not the need to fill the time with frozen burritos. When COVID hit, we, like I said, travel extensively for work, and we're not doing that, had lots of time on our hands. And unfortunately, there were commercial kitchens in the area available, and a good friend let us use their restaurant kitchen to expand the test and get a bigger audience. And we got great reception and really built up a thriving home delivery business in Richmond, Virginia. We got a lot of folks really good frozen burritos in their freezers. and have recently pivoted to full-on wholesale expanding beyond Richmond. And certainly Allie, the stuff you're talking about is right where I'm feeling it. And certainly appreciate any feedback you have on that. I'm enthusiastic to grow the brand. I think we've got a great product and it is hard. It's hard to break in. So I'm feeling that and seeing it. So thank you for having me again, Ray. I really appreciate it.
[00:11:42] Ray Latif: Well, Mike, I got an opportunity to try your burritos. I think it was at last year's Summer Fancy Food Show, if I'm not mistaken, and loved them. And I think the packaging is what was most striking about Tsukasa. So it's, for folks who are listening, it's a cardboard box, essentially. I mean, but you can hold, the burrito using the box as opposed to just taking the whole thing out. Certainly, you can take the whole thing out.
[00:12:07] Speaker 2: Correct. And that really comes back to that convenience point. The whole idea from the beginning was, why do I have to, and I won't name the grocery store, I love this grocery store, but their frozen burritos don't taste very good. And their instructions are, take the burrito out of the packaging, run it under cold water, stab it with a knife, which to me, like a very bad idea with a frozen burrito, wrap it in a wet paper towel, microwave it, flip it, microwave it again. And then you have this just like gross bean mush, like why it wasn't worth the time and it didn't cost very much, but it still just isn't worth it. So the packaging really started as how can we just go freezer to microwave to trash? We don't need a plate. We don't need to eat it with a fork and knife. I just want a burrito that I can carry with me out the door or put in my backpack and eat in half an hour. So the paperboard packaging really was built out of necessity for the convenience end of it. And it was very fortuitous that it was also 100% biodegradable, 100% recyclable. Just great, you know, really, really great packaging that I agree, I think it really sets us apart on the shelf, but it also is just a far, far easier burrito to heat up than anything else I've seen. So I'm proud of that. Thank you.
[00:13:22] Allison Ball: I have a question about the packaging and I understand the benefit to the consumer. Right, when I was looking all around your website, I was like, oh yeah, this packaging is great. Like I can, I really understand the use case for this. And I put myself in that buyer, the wholesale buyers shoes, and I'm like, this packaging is going to be a nightmare on our shelves. I get nervous, Mike. Yeah, I'm just curious about your experience here. And if you've had any pushback on the, you know, where my brain goes is, oh, this is, it's hard to merchandise in the freezer. The freezer is slippery, like how's it working for you?
[00:13:56] Speaker 2: Yeah, interestingly enough, I really haven't heard a lot of negative feedback, although I have been hyper focused on it. I am seeing our product on the shelf and seeing how it interacts with the customer, and I think that it's gotten better and better and better. And again, really haven't gotten many complaints, but anything that maybe someone would have complained about, I think, has hopefully been fixed. I've got, let's see if the blue screen works all right, but I do have the retail packaging here. It's just a cardboard box that- Gotcha. and has inserts in here to keep the burritos up and down. One thing I realized very quickly is they fall over really easily. And, you know, I don't have a background in the food business and this stuff that seems really obvious, I had to learn. And so the packaging is not flimsy. It stays, the perforations stay together until you want them to come off. And then they come off and the burritos stay straight up and down because there's a little indention in there to hold them in place. It's six per pack. They are nice and narrow. So they take up eight inches vertically. but only four inches horizontally, and they fit really nicely in a row of three or six on a freezer shelf. I know that for a lot of the burritos out there, they have kind of a horizontal, really small space, but they're also really small burritos. Like the most burritos you'll see are four ounces, maybe five ounces. Ours are eight. And you know it's a substantial burrito and it really is. I would suggest comparing it to pre made meals, prepackaged meals as much as frozen burritos.
[00:15:28] Allison Ball: What's the price point, Mike?
[00:15:29] Speaker 2: They retail at $699, $799. I think if you look at comparables on the shelf, they should be able to go higher, to be honest. We are still very much a Richmond, Virginia company. We're in D.C., we've got some New England accounts, but I know that as you get into some of the bigger markets, you would be able to charge far more than that.
[00:15:50] Allison Ball: Yeah, yeah. I'm so glad that you explained the vertical merchandising and I think that's super smart because I was imagining you having to provide like the pushers in the freezer and like all of those extra things that make it really challenging.
[00:16:03] Speaker 2: I haven't offered that yet. Maybe I need to. I don't know. That's where maybe you can help. I'm like, don't do it. If you don't have to, Mike, don't do it.
[00:16:11] Allison Ball: Stick with those cases that you have. But it's really smart. And I think about, on your website, you've got nine SKUs. And wondering, what are you finding is the ideal set? Ideally, three, want to push it?
[00:16:26] Speaker 2: Sure, sure. I would say minimum three, because you have very distinct categories. Our bestseller that I put in front of the camera that may work all right is of Frollo Verde. There's great pictures on our website of the Frollo Verde, which is just a chicken and rice burrito. It's delicious. It's always been a fan favorite. The breakfast sausage is the other fan favorite that really does quite well. And then we also have vegan and vegetarian options that you really want to have up there because there's someone in the house that wants to have you know, the chicken and breakfast burrito are not unhealthy. We do everything with fresh ingredients and make sure that it's made, you know, really, really well with good, good hearty ingredients. But, you know, a vegan burrito with kale and sweet potatoes and that's, someone wants that. And it does, it's delicious and it works well together. So certainly, you know, three at a minimum with our two more people like meat out there than Veggie and vegan I found, but having that option is also great.
[00:17:27] Allison Ball: One thing that I would have loved to see on your website is more information about the products themselves. So ingredients, nutrition panel, even your story. You started, Mike, with a really lovely story about you and your wife and starting the business. And some of that, building that out on your website when you've got time.
[00:17:47] Speaker 2: Yes, unfortunately, unfortunately, our website was much, much more involved with the home delivery website. And we had a bit of an issue with Shopify that I'll just leave it at that. If we meet in New York and have more time, I'll tell you all about it. But we had to pretty much just cut and run and picked up our old, I mean, this website we have now is what we started with in COVID and we moved on from within six months. So it's unfortunate timing. We're in between websites right now, but great feedback and definitely should be able to get some of that on immediately. I thought that we had at least some of that, but I'll go audit the website and make sure we get more info on there.
[00:18:26] Ray Latif: The other differentiation or the point of differentiation that I've seen in sucasa is that you have a grilled exterior on your burritos, which I don't see too, too often.
[00:18:35] Speaker 2: So it's not, it's not grilled when you get it, but it is there. Then there are very easy instructions on the bottom of the box on really the best way to eat it. So it's really made to be freezer to microwave to trash, take it with you and go great. If you really want to make it a really great high class meal, microwave it. and then take it out and put it in a pan with some oil for a minute on each side and just brown it up and the tortilla really nicely browns up and it makes it look like a very fancy and taste like a very fancy expensive burrito that is made in a professional kitchen, but it's really just a frozen burrito that's been pan fried, so.
[00:19:14] Ray Latif: I mean, that's the way people like them, right?
[00:19:16] Speaker 2: Oh, it's great. It's worth it. It takes another couple of minutes, but it's worth it. But again, I eat plenty of times fresh out of the microwave and a burrito on the go. It works great anyway.
[00:19:29] Ray Latif: Well, we have lunch brought in on Tuesdays here at BevNET HQ, and I wasn't a huge fan of the lunch that was brought in today. I'll just leave it at that. I wish I had some su casa because my mouth is watering looking at your burritos, and I've already had them before, so I know they're amazing. Appreciate it. Please let me know where you're sold in the Boston area so I can go out and get some and for emergencies and beyond obviously not just for emergencies but yes.
[00:19:52] Speaker 2: Our website does have a find us page and we are in the Boston area so I'd love to get you some frozen burritos. Thank you for mentioning that.
[00:19:59] Ray Latif: I'm on my way. Mike, thank you so much for being on Elevator Talk. It's been a while. I know we've been planning this for a while, so I really appreciate you being on the show. Please stay in touch. If there's any way we can help and help you build your business and scale the way you want to scale, please let us know. Again, we're here to help as much as we are here to report on the news and talk about brands and who raised money and who's in this retailer and so on and so forth. If we can help in any small way along your journey, please let us know.
[00:20:28] Speaker 2: Great, great. Well, thank you so much, Ray. I really appreciate it. And Ali, you've already helped. I've got great notes, and I certainly look forward to continuing the conversation. So I'll look for you both down the road. Thank you so much.
[00:20:39] Ray Latif: I love when we have a great start to the show on Elevator Talk. We usually do. And Sucasa, what a fantastic brand.
[00:20:45] Allison Ball: Better-for-you ingredients can help a product stand out, but turning those ingredients into a business that grows is the harder part. Join Nambase for a free webinar on July 28th with Tom Furst, founder of CulturePop, and Heather Wood, SVP of marketing at Goodall's. They'll talk about what it really takes to build clean label brands that drive trial, repeat purchase, and sustainable growth, from formulation and sourcing to branding, retail, and operations. Sign up for free at nambase.com slash podcast.
[00:21:15] Ray Latif: Another fantastic brand is Lovin' Cookies. The founder is Ashley Cameron, and she is joining us right now. Ashley, thank you so much for being on Elevator Talk.
[00:21:25] Speaker 3: Ray and Allie, it's so great to be here. Thank you so much for having me.
[00:21:28] Ray Latif: I have Lovin' Cookies in my freezer at home. I've already made a bag. It's one of those things where it's hard, you know, like frozen cookies have been around for a really long time. Your frozen cookies are just so delicious. They're amazing. Tell us all about your brand, when you started.
[00:21:45] Speaker 3: Well, thank you. I'm super glad to hear that we have a new fan and you know, love and cookies appear to be America's next favorite cookie. As you mentioned, like cookies are not new, but what is new is the way that we're doing it right. We are a pre portioned frozen gourmet cookie dough that is found in your freezer section. It is made with all of the things that you want in your cookies and none of the things you don't. So that means we're doing all butter, no seed oil, unbleached flour, non GMO chocolates. No adder preservatives and the biggest kicker, no food dye. And so we're super excited about what that's going to bring. We're elevating the way that consumers are going to have a cookie, right? You eat a cookie, but if you're going to eat one, might as well be a good one. And that's what we're going for. Love and Cookies was born truly out of a passion project. My background was actually in healthcare. I was a labor and delivery nurse prior to this. But in 2019, my oldest son, his name's Charlie, he got diagnosed with an acquired heart condition called Kawasaki disease. And so through his treatment and his journey, we started baking as Passion Project. And people started wanting to buy our cookies and it just kind of kept growing and growing. And then in 2022, we applied to AQB's Quest for Texas Best program here in Texas and ended up winning first place out of 600 SKUs. And holy sugar and butter, what was I gonna do? I was challenged with, I'm getting thrown into CPG. We successfully launched into HUB that following year in July of 23. Since then, I've learned a lot. As you can imagine, it's been a wild ride. Feet were held to the fire from everything. At that point in time, we were self-manufacturing no longer. and learning all the things CPG, but then we focused on really growing our brand, growing our brand awareness here in Texas. And then last year in July, we expanded nationwide. So you can now find Love & Cookies nationwide at Sprouts. We're in Harris Teeter in the Southeast. We just launched about two weeks ago in Wegmans, which I know you're in Boston, so you can go to your local Wegmans and find us. We're on Thrive Market online. And most excitingly, I'm excited to tell you guys the first to know we're launching a Costco roadshow on Thursday in the LA region. So along with debuting some new packaging. So we're excited and I'm excited to be here to talk to you today.
[00:24:03] Ray Latif: So not much going on with you, Ashley. You're just kind of just chilling, selling some cookies, you know? Yeah, okay, that's good. No, in all seriousness, amazing stuff. Congratulations on all the traction you've had with Love & Cookies to this point. As I mentioned, they're fantastic. I do love Wegmans. It's one of my favorite retailers and shout out to Thrive Market, who's co-founder and CEO. We just featured on Taste Radio. His name is Nick Green. It's a really good episode. I highly recommend that you tune in. I got to stop talking because I know Allie wants to ask you a lot of questions. Allie, take it away.
[00:24:34] Allison Ball: I have so many questions. And I want to say, I, you know, of course, I do my homework before these, these episodes. And I love your website. I love your socials. I can see how much work you guys have put in over the past couple of years. It's really, it's evident, really evident.
[00:24:52] Speaker 3: Thank you. Thank you. One cookie at a time, Allie. That's all it takes. One cookie at a time.
[00:24:57] Allison Ball: Okay, so do you should we start with like the fun questions or the hard questions?
[00:25:02] Speaker 3: You throw it at me, girl, wherever you want to start. We got this.
[00:25:05] Allison Ball: Yeah, I was gonna come in here and talk about the packaging. And I was like, the one thing I want changed is some things on the packaging. So tell and you know, here you are, you've beaten me to it. So tell me about the packaging changes and what you're really excited about there.
[00:25:20] Speaker 3: Yeah, so great question. So one of the things that we love, I want to start with the color, right? So historically, the Frozen category, sideway cardboard boxes, a lot of whites, a lot of that. So one of the biggest brand differentiators is the bright color. It's like you put it behind the glass door, bright, fun, colorful. We've always loved the color. Things that we needed, things that I didn't know and I've learned, right? I finally forked over the capital for better quality pictures right good I want to eat that cookie picture like give me all the yumminess on that cookie right um I think you're gonna think we did it we nailed it on that one and I'll hold this up here so you can see so. Um, also the call out, you know, we started this brand and we were small mom and pop. A lot of our cookies were given names, like even our chocolate chip cookie was also called the Charlie cash because we were wanting to name it after friends and family who were super supportive of us during my son's illness. But I've learned as wonderful and loving as that is. People in New York, what the heck is a Charlie Cash? They don't know. So we had to really focus like, what is it that the consumer is buying, right? And also, we want to call out all the good things about the brand. So yes, we're 100% woman owned, right? We have all butter, no seed oil, non GMO chocolates, and no added preservatives and dyes. And so we just spent a lot of time kind of take away a lot of clutter, scale back and make it very clear. And that was the focus.
[00:26:43] Allison Ball: Great. Yeah, that was going to be my advice. It's a little busy on those packaging. And I'm so happy that you upgraded the photography. I think that was the one thing that was lacking a bit. Okay. I'm also wondering about regions and what regions are performing best for you. Why that is, or what's your hypothesis? And are you focusing on doubling down on the regions that are working well, or are you going to try to boost your slower regions?
[00:27:17] Speaker 3: We're going to do both because both are needed in certain capacities. Focused regions, obviously, Texas is our home base. Texas is where we are born and bred. Texans love Texas, so we're here to grow in the great state of Texas. Our hottest data, which will enhance the Costco Roadshow, is California. California is a hot zone. with the conversations in our country around our food is that we want, I'll eat the cookie, but make it better for me, right? Take out all the junk that I don't need, take out all the preservatives. And so when you're speaking to a community that's been, I think, believing that for a long time, but now it's becoming more and more prevalent, that they're like, great, I can finally have something that I'm comfortable giving my kids, I'm comfortable doing this. And so those are the regions that we are really seeing the growth a lot there. Um, we are doubling down in California with regional demos and like, cause once people put it in their mouth, like the purchase rate is well over 95% cause it's just as great that it's so good and people love it. And so that has worked. However, um. One of the challenges or things that we've realized is merchandising, which merchandising and frozen can be super hard because I don't have the luxury. Not every retailer has an end cap, right? I can't just go put it on like how beverage brands can put it on the end in a self-made stand, right? I can't do that. But what's happening as a newer brand is that the product gets put on the shelf initially, but maybe the store is not reordering it correctly or and so it's not getting pulled and that's the gap that we're seeing and so we are deploying merchandising to just kind of blitz and fill that gap to make sure that it's coming correctly from the distributor to the retail shelf to ensure that it's been also supported with adequate TPRs because that's how in Frozen we're going to get people to pull the product off the shelf.
[00:29:08] Allison Ball: Totally. And what I remember is my grocery team doesn't want to spend a lot of time in the frozen back stock. It's really cold. You bundle up, you get in that walk-in freezer, and we're searching as fast as we can for product. oftentimes, especially frozen, frozen, refrigerated, gosh, I mean, name the category, that product sits in back stock and doesn't get merchandise on the shelf simply because that stocker is freezing cold, trying to like get their job done really fast. Actually, we had a brand, this was Oh my God, almost 20 years ago, who gave our grocery team really high quality freezer gloves that were branded with their logo. And they were incredible because they actually like helped my team like be really comfy when they were in the freezer. And I literally, I went into BuyRight, I don't know, a couple of weeks ago and I saw someone a grocery stock or wearing those branded gloves that ice cream brand has since gone out of business like they're not even around anymore. And I'm like, Oh my God, like I mean literally like 18 years later and those silly freezer gloves are still in rotation.
[00:30:24] Speaker 3: Hey, I actually we actually just bought a whole bunch of them because I use them in my own freezer. I'm like I hate going through my own freezer at home and they are the best gift and especially when people are, you know, grown men walking around with hot pink love and cookies gloves. I mean, you're on it. It's great. It's a great love it. I love it.
[00:30:40] Ray Latif: Ashley, with the time we have left, I want to talk about your price point. On your website, you're $10.99 per pouch. Is that the same price at retail?
[00:30:49] Speaker 3: No, it's not. Frozen DTC shipping has its challenges. We have to support that insulated box, dry ice, frozen packaging. At grocery sales, it's $9.99 for an eight-count pack.
[00:31:01] Ray Latif: And given the price point, is it something where you're finding customers of the brand are buying it as a sort of special treat or is it more sort of every couple of weeks? What's the frequency of their buying?
[00:31:14] Speaker 3: So I think initially they try it as a special treat because given the price point, and then I think once they taste it, it's becoming, Oh, we're going to repeat purchase this every couple of weeks, every month. Um, you know, I think the price definitely, I don't think, I know the price definitely reflects the quality of the ingredients. Right. Um, and so as you, once you taste it, you understand, you look at how clean and simple the ingredients are. You're like, Oh yeah, I'll pay $9.99 for that pack of cookies, basically $1.25 a cookie. And I'm getting it. We are the largest format cookie size on the market currently right now. So it's an ounce and a half full ounces bakery style cookies. And there's a tremendous amount of value in that given those things.
[00:31:50] Ray Latif: I would agree. It's a really great tasting cookie. You can taste the quality in each one. And the instructions on the back of your chocolate chip cookie one are just perfect because I think the third, I don't know if it's a recommendation or just part of the preparation list is sprinkle with sea salt, which is just, okay, you put me over the top there. I'm gonna start crying, it was so good.
[00:32:16] Speaker 3: Tears of joy. And you can always remember that. It makes you remember cookies are always a good idea.
[00:32:21] Ray Latif: Tears of love. Love and cookies. Great name. Really enjoyed speaking with you, Ashley. Thank you so much for doing what you do. Really rooting for you and excited to hear about where the Brandt Gehrs next. Please let us know. We want to write about it. We want to talk about it. We want to see how you're doing.
[00:32:36] Speaker 3: Well, thank you guys so much. It was a joy.
[00:32:38] Ray Latif: All right. Outstanding stuff. Another cookie brand. Up next, we have Aaron Sager, who is the founder of Calteen. Aaron, it's so great to see you again. So good to see you again. Thank you for having me on. Yeah, I saw you in January in San Diego at the Winter Fancy Fair. And I gotta admit, I was a little skeptical because I didn't know how protein cookies would taste, especially, you know, protein cookies that look like yours. And I bit into one, I'm like, damn, you have something here. Tell us all about Calteen, the origins of the brand, where you are right now.
[00:33:13] Speaker 4: Sure. So my name is Aaron. I'm the founder of Calteen. I used to work at SpaceX and actually left SpaceX because I found protein bars. While they promise nutrition, they rarely deliver on taste. and decided that I would give it a shot. I ate a lot of shortbread cookies and remembered first principles in my engineering courses that the simplest solution is the best solution. So I made a shortbread cookie that has 20 grams of protein, six simple ingredients. And as you just said, like they're very tasty. And what's interesting is we started in the gym channel, getting those stocked in a bunch of New York City's boutique gyms. I got into retail after that, and now we're exploring some institutional plays with hospital nutrition teams, as well as some Division I athletics programs at universities. So the application's pretty wide. Everyone wants protein, everyone eats cookies. It's just, can it taste good and use ingredients that are simple? And the answer is yes.
[00:34:22] Ray Latif: Protein, probably the hottest ingredient, I don't know, probably for the last 18 months, it's only gonna get hotter before it all comes down like a house of cards. No, I'm just kidding. I just feel like the proteinification of CBG is getting to its peak at this point. As I mentioned, I really enjoyed eating your cookies, and I think you've got something, which is why I'm so happy you're on the show. Ali, at a time when people want indulgence, they want functionality, they want both, and they want everything to be perfect, how would you advise Aaron on the next steps in getting more people to try Calteen? As he mentioned, he outlined a go-to-market strategy and a few places where he thinks he could go for the brand. I'd just love to hear your feedback and your thoughts on that strategy.
[00:35:10] Allison Ball: Yeah, you know, Aaron, I think it comes down to margin and profitability. Where are you finding that intersection of the people who love and want and will pay for your product and the wholesale channels that have those people shopping or consuming in them. And so you're exploring here. You said gyms. I love it. I love it when brands have such a niche go-to-market strategy. Gyms, retail, and then institution. Do you have a sense of which is going to be the easiest and the most profitable for you this year?
[00:35:50] Speaker 4: That's a great question. And I'll let you know when I figure that out. But I think for right now, the gyms have such high velocity and I can go direct with so many of them. It's just, you know, it's very profitable. However, it's such a fragmented channel. You really have to hit the ground and the pavement, reach out to each gym. But once you're locked in, Like, they just sell. And I think it's because my product's so good. People have been looking for a product like mine. Grocery stores, we've been doing well there. And we're talking with some distributors currently. But still, like, I'm a new founder. Like, I have a lot to learn. I read enough LinkedIn posts that are pretty terrifying, to be honest, of saying, like, I was expecting to get this much money from my invoice. And then they get a fraction of that. So I'm trying to avoid that. And then the institutions, once again, they just do huge volume. It's just you need a warm intro sometime. So I'm leveraging my network to get into those places.
[00:36:54] Allison Ball: Yeah, and Aaron, I'm so happy that you have your wits about you when considering distribution, because so often that's the thing that can kill a brand, especially as you're thinking about your cash flow, and are you producing yourself or co-packing?
[00:37:12] Speaker 4: We self-produce. I have a nice little team that I built in Queens, New York.
[00:37:17] Allison Ball: Great, great.
[00:37:18] Speaker 4: We listened to Hamilton the last production day, so it's very fun.
[00:37:23] Allison Ball: I like that. That sounds like you're building a great company.
[00:37:26] Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a lot of fun on production days. But I mean, at some point, we will need to find a co-packer. And we're doing that search right now.
[00:37:33] Allison Ball: Yeah, yeah. So I mean, the thing that kills early stage brands is cash flow. So thinking about, you know, distribution when you do move to that copacker, like, and you're everybody's paying on that 90, how the heck are you going to pay for that next production run? And where's the margin left over for promotions and paying your team and paying yourself, Aaron, and all of that sort of stuff. So the slower you can, in a way, the slower you can go on layering in each of those expenses, the better to some extent.
[00:38:03] Speaker 4: There's a lot of patience required when building a brand because there are some opportunities that have been presented to us that are explosive and seem very LinkedIn post worthy, if you know what I mean. But the risk that I have to mitigate to make it work and work well is hard. So there's slower opportunities, but I at the same time think the brand needs to grow at a certain rate I don't know, to be healthy, have longevity. I don't want competitors to do what I'm doing. Good luck. I spent six months in my apartment doing over a thousand tests to figure out how to make my ingredients, which are so simple, do what I needed it to do to taste so delicious.
[00:38:50] Allison Ball: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I wish every founder had the self-restraint that I hear from you, Erin, and not just trying to build that brand that looks good on LinkedIn. It's really challenging. And if we're just doing the things for the vanity metrics and the LinkedIn posts, it's the quickest way to run yourself into the ground. I do have a question, though, a couple of questions. So we think about this protein snack, protein cookie category, protein baked goods, and there's a lot coming to the market. I'm sure even in the past six months, you've seen this influx. So as you're pitching to these wholesale accounts, what is it that makes your brand more attractive than the other guy pitching an hour after you?
[00:39:40] Speaker 4: I love talking about protein. We have the shortest ingredient list for anything with 20 grams of protein. There's nothing that comes close. And if you think about it, you can get everything we use at the grocery store. Why? Because when I started, I went to the grocery store and bought stuff only sold there. We are the only high protein shortbread cookie. There's other protein cookies, but they're not a shortbread cookie. So that means we taste better because we use real butter. Our texture is crispy. Crispy is lacking in the protein space. You get dense, you get hard, you get chewy, stuck in your teeth, yoga mat texture. None of that with us. So we're just a more clean, natural, better tasting product. and I think it's when people try it. As Ray was kind of saying, there's so much skepticism when you hear protein, and I think it's the brands that are actually delivering on taste and experience that are the ones that are gonna be here after the gold rush dries up. And frankly, I started this before the protein gold rush, we'll call it. I'm not trying to catch trends or fads. I'm here to stay because this is what I needed 10 years ago, and I'm making it now.
[00:40:52] Allison Ball: Yeah. And Erin, I would say when you think about, you know, I'm always coming at it from the perspective of the wholesale buyer. When I think about that pitch, I'm like, that's a beautiful pitch when you're speaking direct to consumer, right? For that person who's actually eating the shortbread cookies, like they want to know. Six ingredients, clean protein, tastes good, crispy texture, like all of that is awesome. And for that wholesale buyer, we really want to pitch through the lens of how are you going to help your category win? So every founder that's pitching, every brand that's pitching is like, my product tastes great. but we use great ingredients. Like, you know, we spent so long developing our product. And so we really want the focus on, okay, cool, Erin. And what does it do for the buyer? Are you bringing higher sales? Are you bringing more margin? Are you bringing a new consumer to the category? Are you bringing, are you increasing the basket average in the store? Like what are you doing that helps that wholesale buyer meet their goals? So I just add that into your pitch and see if you can't like close a little bit faster and get more of the, Yeah, the yes is sooner.
[00:41:56] Speaker 4: Well, I appreciate that feedback.
[00:41:58] Ray Latif: Yeah, I think you're spot on, Ali. You know, retail buyers want to know, okay, is this going to sell more product than my existing product on shelf? You know, how you make more money for me? Because at the end of the day, that's what the retailers are trying to do, the retail buyers. Aaron, as I mentioned, I think your product tastes amazing. I think maybe enhancing the fact that it does taste so good in whatever marketing form you can, whether it be the front of pack or in your social posts or what have you, I think is really important because I didn't get that immediately when I first saw your packaging, but I got it as soon as I tasted it. So I think in demos, yeah, you'll get people, but when people just see the bag on the shelf or on your website or in an ad, they might not get it as quickly. So I'm not sure what the answer is, but because your products do taste so good, I would highlight that as much as you can, as best as you can. The other thing I would say is that you nailed it when you talked about you know, protein being this huge trend right now, but nothing tasting as amazing as it should. In fact, our roundup from Expo West was published a couple days ago, and the title of the podcast is Protein Dominates, but Flavor Decides. And it really does. At the end of the day, You can have the most functionally amazing, beneficial product out there, but if it doesn't taste good, no one's gonna buy it. And again, Galatine tastes amazing, and I think you've really got something. So thank you so much for joining us on Elevator Talk today. I'm really happy that we had you on the show. Are you gonna be at Fancy Food in New York?
[00:43:37] Speaker 4: Yes, we're exhibiting in Debut District. So please come try these shortbread cookies that are high protein. And if I could just shout out, we're in Happier Grocery now. We sold out after our first week. And when we restock, please come get some more.
[00:43:52] Ray Latif: There you go. Aaron, thank you so much once again for being on Elevator Talk.
[00:43:56] Speaker 4: Thank you.
[00:43:57] Ray Latif: All right, another brand that makes some tremendous products. That's Madre's Churros. The founder is Jhené Gutierrez. Jhené, it's great to see you.
[00:44:07] Speaker 5: Aloha, hola.
[00:44:10] Ray Latif: Aloha indeed. Janaye is Allison Ball the way from Honolulu, Hawaii. Is that right? Yes. Yes, I am. Oahu.
[00:44:18] Speaker 5: It's bright and early over here.
[00:44:20] Ray Latif: Well, thank you so much for joining us today. I met you at the Winter Fancy Fair as well, and your brand was one of the most striking because A, I don't see too many churro products on the market, and B, your packaging is not what you would typically expect to see a product like this, and I think all of it came together in this beautiful package that I was really impressed with. There it is right there, Madre's Churros. Tell us about how you started and where the brand is today.
[00:44:50] Speaker 5: Yes, thank you for having me by the way. I really appreciate it. So yeah, it started I was backpacking through Mexico. I'm my family is from Mexico. So we were I was backpacking and I ate my way through ate a lot of churros at that point. I realized when I got back home, I just kept having stomach aches and I found out that I had a high gluten intolerance. So all those lovely churros I ate would end up hurting my stomach. So I went in the kitchen and I realized how much I missed eating churros when I got back home in San Diego. That's where I was living at the time. I just thought well, I am definitely not going to say no to churros. I'm gonna make my own so I went in the kitchen worked Many hours to create what I have today Ate a lot of churros, and I wanted something that didn't compromise texture or taste because I was going into a whole new world of eating gluten free. And I just kept running into the same problem that a lot of products have, like cardboard texture, or it's just doesn't taste good. Don't mind. I mean, there are some brands that they hit it right on the nail. I'm like, this tastes exactly what I want it to taste like. So yeah, that's when I started Madres. I actually started in San Diego. I was in three different farmers markets, frying on site for people. And I found this joy of seeing people's faces that had celiac or gluten intolerances, or that they were vegan because my churros are vegan as well, that they were able to eat a churro again. I was like, wow, this is like what I want to do. And I feel like I was made to make this and I the pandemic hit so six months after being open, I was just started creating the concept like maybe I should freeze it and people can air fry it because that's when the air fryers started happening. That movement and I yeah, the pandemic hit, I had to close shop in 2020. I decided to move to Hawaii because my mom lives here. She's lived here for 12 years, took a break, I burnt myself out working three markets a week. And from there, I mean, four years later, I decided to restart Madres. And using local ag, I created a Poy Churro, because I do have a passion of supporting local farmers in some way or capacity. And yeah, now here I am. I went through a program called Aina Tumekeke here on island that kind of helped me wrap my head around CPG products and how to pitch to buyers and think about my packaging.
[00:47:43] Ray Latif: Janae, I'm going to sound like a broken record here, but I love the taste of your product. I think what got me to come to your booth, or at least to start talking to you, was your packaging, which it comes in this ice cream pint, essentially. And then when you actually taste the product, it's just, okay, you're sold twice. You're sold on the packaging, then you're sold on the product itself. And I love that your story is one that others share as well, right? Your reason for being is that You love this product, you love churros, but you can't eat them. So I've got to create my own. And I have a feeling you're certainly not the only one. But this is also almost the first of its kind. Allie, have you seen a product like this out there?
[00:48:23] Allison Ball: No. I'm like, maybe? I don't know. I've certainly seen other brands, like alternative desserts, use ice cream pints in the freezer. And I've seen the pros and cons of that.
[00:48:40] Speaker 5: Oh, I'm starting to see them as well.
[00:48:42] Allison Ball: Yeah, that was my big question here. Like, what's going on with the packaging? And especially because that like, frankly, the beautiful churro image that you have kind of looks like soft serve. And so like, is there is there confusion on the shelf? I'm guessing yes. And how are you overcoming that?
[00:48:59] Speaker 5: So now that I'm in eight stores here in Oahu, well, let me start off by saying I intentionally put in the ice cream container for two reasons. One, I wanted a package where somebody can reutilize it by putting the churros back in, shaking it up with the cinnamon sugar packet that comes inside. Putting it in, putting their ice cream inside, that was number one. Number two, I wanted it because I wanted it in the ice cream section. Because I think churros and ice cream go together. So I was like, maybe I should just put in a pint size. And then eventually I'll grow and put them in bigger, like tubs. Because I wanted them to place it in that section. The problem I'm running into people think it's ice cream. And I'm currently trying to figure out how to, I wanna say like educate people, like it's not ice cream, it's churros. Don't be misled, you know? So I'm currently thinking, and I would love your honest opinion, I'm thinking of doing call-outs on the, on the glass window of like little churros and make sure that it stands out. Demos have helped a lot. Whenever I do demos, people just buy them quickly because they're like, Oh my god, I thought that was ice cream. This is really good. I'll get this with my ice cream. So yeah, I feel like those are the only two things social media. I've been trying to work on a social media plan, a strategy of how to kind of keep calling it out. Like we're not ice cream. We're not ice cream. But yeah, I'm open to ideas.
[00:50:34] Allison Ball: Freezer clings. Absolutely. I think that's a great idea. and call-outs on the packaging and such. Obviously, demos are great, social media is great, but you're not there to demo 24-7. We really have to think about when the product needs to sell itself behind a freezer door, how are we going to do that? I don't say this lightly, but it'll be really interesting to see if eventually you move to a pouch. I don't know, or like maybe a different size, like a different shape container, but then that doesn't like fit with the pints. And I don't know, you know, this is this is my million dollar question, too.
[00:51:17] Speaker 5: I'm like trying to reinvent something. I feel like I I'm willing to take the the ride for it for at least a year, at least try to push it because I really love this container. However, I am also I've heard other CPG products kind of switching kind of routes of packaging just because of issues that they've run into. So I'm open to it. I'm not going to say I'm not but I'm really pushing for it.
[00:51:45] Allison Ball: I'd also argue Yeah, so we worked with a brand that did for chocolate covered frozen grapes like I don't know, probably 12 years ago, 13 years ago, they're still around, and they do them in pint containers. And we went through this whole, this exact issue. And the best, they were like, okay, this is a blessing and a curse, right? And I think, you know, Janae, you're sitting here with the same exact challenge. It's a blessing and a curse. I wonder if you're actually pushing to be merchandised away from the ice cream. And I know you first said like, oh, I wanna be like with those other pints, but that's where the confusion is happening. And what if one tiny step that doesn't require you to like redo everything right now is to actually be merchandised with the novelties, you know, even next to like the ice cream bars or frozen or mochi or like anything like that, even the like frozen fruit, chocolate covered frozen fruit, where you're not like literally in the wall of ice cream. That might be the happy medium for now. I don't know, Ray, what do you think?
[00:52:50] Ray Latif: You know, I think for me, someone who's walking a trade show and they see this type of package and they realize there's churros in there instead of ice cream, that was what really interested me. I would say that at the end of the day, you want people to see your product and see it through the glass and be excited by it. I think it's difficult because churros aren't necessarily something you expect to see at all, I think, in the freezer case, or at all in any part of the store. So, however, whatever package you have, I think it really needs to scream churros, it needs to scream indulgence, and it needs to scream easy, right, because I think people might not even know that it's ready to, you know, heat. Maybe someone thinks, oh, you have to put it in a fryer.
[00:53:46] Allison Ball: Right, as opposed to just using an air fryer. And you do say just heat, then eat, like right on the front, and I think that's great, but like even, I mean, that could even be called out more. Yeah, right, I think you're right there.
[00:53:58] Ray Latif: Yeah, but I mean, It remains to be seen. I think at the end of the day, you'll learn a lot from your retailers about how the product performs and get some feedback from your buyers and from the end consumers about whether it was as striking as it needs to be on shelf. So gain as much, pull up as much information as you can, anecdotal, analytical data as you can from those stores that you're in. Why? Because that is really applicable or can be very applicable to your next retailer and those beyond that as well. But again, I think in some ways you're talking to Allie and me or we're talking as consumers as much as we are talking about industry folks. And so the more consumers you speak with, I think you'll have a better sense of how they perceive the product on shelf and how they see it as fitting into their shopping cart.
[00:54:51] Speaker 5: Yes, absolutely. And I appreciate all the feedback. Definitely wrote a lot of notes today, so.
[00:54:58] Ray Latif: Well, that's great. And I'm sure most of them are coming from Allie. I'm just offering my two cents, you know, whenever I can. But Janaye, thank you so much for joining us on Elevator Talk today. I'm really excited for your brand. I really am. I think your logo is tremendous. I think, again, this is a brand and a product that we haven't necessarily seen before. And I just see, I don't know, I see this as being like a,
[00:55:18] Speaker 5: I'm trying to reinvent the churro, bring it back. I want everybody to have one in a freezer.
[00:55:23] Ray Latif: You're doing it. I also see some Instagram TikTok blowing up happening at some point. So keep at it and let us know if we can help in any way.
[00:55:32] Speaker 5: Thank you so much.
[00:55:36] Speaker 6: Mahalo, guys. Quick pause to let you know that the leading event for the beverage industry is headed back to Los Angeles this December 6th through 8th. BevNET Live brings founders, investors, retailers, suppliers, and operators together for product discovery, high-value conversations, and partnerships that can shape what comes next. Early registration pricing is available now. Head to bevnetlive.com to register. Mark your calendar. Nosh Live is back December 3rd and 4th in Los Angeles. Join packaged food founders, buyers, investors, and operators for two days of product discovery and conversations focused on what's next. Early registration pricing is available now. Head to noshlive.com to register.
[00:56:29] Ray Latif: All right, our final guest for this episode of Elevator Talk is Caroline Day, who is the founder of Tofu Go. Caroline, it's great to see you.
[00:56:38] Speaker 6: Nice to meet you. I'm Caroline, the founder of Tofu Go Snacks. We're savory protein snacks made of tofu with flavors like soy barbecue and spicy chili, the flavors I grew up with. We have 12 grams of protein and zero sugar.
[00:56:52] Ray Latif: This is the one brand I haven't tried yet, but it is so interesting. I have never come across a sweet slash savory. I mean, it almost seems like there's a little bit of both going on right now. Product, which is kind of interesting, like you describe it as a savory protein snack, but what's the... In terms of texture and flavor, is it as simple as this is like a snackable tofu with soy or spicy chili, depending on variety?
[00:57:24] Speaker 6: Yes. So the soy barbecue, it's soy sauce and spicy chili is authentic Sichuan peppercorn. And it comes with actually three of these individual pouch, which is self-stable for nine months. And we're launching March 18th with products on your way. So we're very, very needing the space, bringing more innovation to the tofu category.
[00:57:41] Ray Latif: Very cool. And so where in store do you expect them to be merchandised?
[00:57:45] Speaker 6: I expect them to be in line with other savory protein snacks like jerky, chips, or in the charcoal aisle for impulse buy.
[00:57:53] Speaker: OK.
[00:57:54] Ray Latif: This show is amazing. This episode in particular, we've got so many really great concepts. Allie, I'm so glad that you're here with us. You can offer some insights and feedback on how these founders can help their brand scale. Because this one in particular, I think, is going to get a lot of questions from retail buyers. The packaging is amazing, the concept is really cool, but it's gonna get a lot of questions. And you're the person who's gonna start asking those questions, I know.
[00:58:21] Allison Ball: Yeah. And I just want to say, Caroline, I am stoked on this brand. I was on your Instagram, on your website, and I was like, oh, I'm putting my money on this. This is exciting to me. I can tell how much you've invested in your brand already. And I've got some questions. So it's the three individual ones in that bigger pouch. So that's what we're seeing there.
[00:58:47] Speaker 6: OK. Yes. So when you open one pouch, it comes with three. And they're very cute with our little tofu icon as well. So people love the packaging. People love how convenient it is. We have a lot of early interest from retailers, especially they love the fact it's nine months shelf stable comparing to regular tofu, which is a lot shorter and has to be refrigerated.
[00:59:06] Allison Ball: Yep, totally. Yeah, so, Ray, you asked my question, like, where does it go? I'm imagining, like, are we putting it on clip strips next to the beef jerky? Are we putting it like literally with the protein bars, like the cliff bars and the midday squares? Are we putting it in the fridge because that's where people are looking for snacks like this, even though it is shelf stable, like where the heck is it going? So Caroline, do you have data yet? Do you have retail accounts and info on where it's best performing or not yet?
[00:59:43] Speaker 6: So we're launching in the week primarily on Shopify site. With the earlier retail interest, they did express interest in testing and trial. And I think that for innovative products that's like this, we need to test and trial to see what performs best. But with the flavor profile, you know, people are looking for more savory. So likely the beef jerky or protein chips, they find our product. With the Clif Bar, are there protein bars that tend to be more sweet and dessert like? Yes.
[01:00:08] Ray Latif: Can I ask you a question, Allie? I just wanted to interject, because you were asking about merchandising, I was asking about merchandising, and I think this always comes up with founders when they are talking to those managers. How do you convince them to put the product where you think it's gonna perform best? Is there an approach that you think is really effective?
[01:00:26] Allison Ball: Yeah, and it's a delicate balance here, right? Because if a founder came to me and was like, Allie, here's my brand, I want you to merchandise me in X, Y, Z section, I'd be like, you're not the expert in my store. Like, you don't know me. And so I always say, I want founders to lead with data. And you know, it's a little tricky here, because we don't have the data yet. But as soon as you do, what we want to say is, OK, so pitch into a new account. We find that when our snacks are merchandised on a clip strip on the end cap, we sell, making this up, 24 units a week, as opposed to when we're merchandised, you know, in the grab and go section next to the snack mix and nuts, we sell seven units a week, right? And so like presenting it again with numbers, with data and recognising that You and the buyer have the same goals. Higher sales. Everybody has the same goals here. So when you can work together towards that goal, you both win. So really presenting it like, you know, this is how we're going to win together. This is how we're going to make the highest sales. And here's the data that proves it, rather than just being like, you know, we'd love to be merchandised next to the beef jerky. You and everybody else. Yeah, I love that feedback.
[01:01:55] Ray Latif: I mean, it's a great question. And I think the other big question is, how does this taste? I think, you know, how do you convince that consumer? to try this product. I know everyone's gonna say demos, but as you pointed out, Al, you can't be everywhere all at once. So for a brand new product like this, for a concept that seems to be really innovative and different, almost in a way that could be to the detriment of trial, what's your suggestion on how to get people excited about this enough so that they try it?
[01:02:27] Allison Ball: If you are going retail first, I would be really bullish on staff education. So I always think about turning the people at the store level into many salespeople for your brand. So you wanna make sure that everyone there who is near your product has tried it, knows your founder story, knows that you are a woman-owned company, And so they can say like, oh my God, we just got this new brand in, you know, have you tried it yet? Here it is. So like really focusing at the beginning on turning the store staff members into evangelists for your brand. I think that that's one of the like most undertapped ways to do it. And then also just thinking about like inexpensive ways, making sure that you have shelf talkers. And I know that's so basic and many stores don't want your shelf talkers, but I've seen your design. You've got great eye, Caroline. I know that you can design a shelf talker that's really gonna capture attention to your product line from three feet away, from one feet away, and making sure that you're just doing those really basic foundational things to help draw attention to your product on the shelf. And then, of course, we can throw money at promotions, of course. You know, we can do Instacart ads, we can do coupons, we can do all that sort of stuff. But I would just make sure that you've got the, like, less expensive, free things happening first in your key retailers.
[01:04:02] Speaker 6: Thank you.
[01:04:02] Allison Ball: I appreciate that feedback. Yeah. What else? Did I miss something, Ray?
[01:04:06] Ray Latif: No, I think you answered my question. I thought it was great. I think the more people you can touch in store, the better off you can get people aware of and excited about what you're doing. And again, I've used that term a number of times, but it's really important. you know, be on shelf and expect people to love your brand and love your product as great as your packaging is, as great as your flavor might be. It's really about getting everyone to want to talk about what you're doing. And you know, it's interesting, when I was at Expo, I felt like maybe I could be wrong, maybe I was just reading into things a little bit too much. I feel like soy was kind of making a little bit of a comeback. I feel like more people are looking at soy and saying, hey, you know what? This could be for me.
[01:04:51] Allison Ball: Which is kind of ridiculous to say, Ray, given that soy is, you know, centuries old ingredient.
[01:04:59] Ray Latif: Yeah, but there was a little bit of backlash, right?
[01:05:02] Allison Ball: Yeah, I totally agree.
[01:05:03] Ray Latif: But now, like I said, I think, you know, people are becoming more comfortable with and excited about soy. I mean, Caroline, are you sensing that as well?
[01:05:11] Speaker 6: Totally, I actually was at XOS and we had really great interest from buyers and founders and press about how innovative TofuGo is. I think 2025 is a really big year for protein and 2026 is going to be a really big year for where the protein derives from. Is it whole foods? Is it artificial ingredients? So for tofu, we actually just use tofu. We press it, remove the water at the soft end. We don't add additional protein isolate, which people are really excited about. It's that just whole foods, no sugar.
[01:05:40] Allison Ball: Yeah, I think you're spot on. Even, I don't know, Ray, last year we were talking with beverage brands about protein sourcing and how important, like once we get through this big boom of protein, where are people sourcing it from and how effective is it for the end user? I'm also, I want to make sure I get to say this one piece. I think one of the challenges that you're gonna have is explaining that it's savory, right? And even looking at that hero image on your website, there's chocolate hearts on there. It's like really like kind of vibey. And I'm like, this leans a little bit sweet. And I think Ray said that at the beginning too, right? You're toeing the line, sweet, savory. And so really thinking about how do people know that it's a savory experience? I think on shelf it's easier because they're not looking at the whole, the brand as a whole, but really making sure that you're aware of that and positioning yourself as savory through and through.
[01:06:37] Speaker 6: Totally.
[01:06:38] Ray Latif: Caroline, has Andrea Hernandez from Snack Shot reached out yet?
[01:06:43] Speaker 6: Not yet, but we have a lot of other press interested in covering the Tokugo story, but definitely happy to send samples to all of you, Allie and Ray, and also Andrea.
[01:06:54] Ray Latif: Thank you very much. I would highly recommend you get in touch with her, because this seems like it's right up her alley. Totally. And it's right up our alley, too. Clearly, we're really excited about what you're doing, really excited for the future of this brand. Just, just let us know how things are going. Um, you know, once you get onto market, it's really exciting, but you know, as we've pointed out a number of times, getting on shelf is the easy part. Everything else that comes after is the tough part. So, um, if there are any folks that we can make introductions to, or, um, you know, any questions that you might want an answer to, even if we don't know the answer, we'll try to find someone to give you one. So please just stay in touch.
[01:07:32] Speaker 6: I appreciate that. Thank you so much.
[01:07:34] Ray Latif: Thank you so much. And thanks so much for being on Elevator Talks today. Really appreciate it. Well, I gotta tell you, Ali, in terms of founders, in terms of brands, in terms of having you on the show, I love every episode of Elevator Talk. This is a standout. This has been a really, really good episode. I think it just shows the breadth of innovation in established categories and ones that founders are creating. And I think it's the reason why we're so excited about this industry is because People are changing things one day at a time. And the truth is, yes, this is a tough business. And yes, there are a lot of brands that aren't gonna make it. But the ones that do make it, the rewards are great. And the end benefit is that more people get to eat healthier, more people get to eat innovative ingredients. And in general, it's helping the industry change one product, one brand at a time.
[01:08:30] Allison Ball: Yes, I totally agree. I, you know, I think this is my third time on Elevator Talk and this group was really exciting to me. Yeah, really, really exciting to see what's up and coming.
[01:08:42] Ray Latif: Yes. And clearly they liked what you had to say. And I think our listeners and viewers like what you have to say as well. What is the best way to get in touch with you, Allie? What's the easiest way to get in touch?
[01:08:52] Allison Ball: Yeah. So I hang out on Instagram the most. I know y'all are like LinkedIn people, but like, I like hanging out on Instagram. So I'm at foodbizwiz on Instagram. Come and say hi, if you're listening to this. And then again, come and join our Wholesale Week. Day three of Wholesale Week is our Brave Pitch Framework, where you take my brave score assessment on buyer pitching, and I'll give you precise feedback on where you need to improve your buyer pitch. So that could be really helpful for a listener. So again, find Wholesale Week. You can find it on my Instagram. You can find it on foodbizwiz.com. We'd love to have you in there. We start on Monday the 16th.
[01:09:27] Ray Latif: And if it's not clear already, Ally's willing to give it to you straight in a really constructive way. No, I am serious. This is important because a lot of early stage founders are getting feedback from their friends and family and everyone's gonna be, oh, this is fantastic. Everything's gonna sound like roses or smell like roses or whatever the saying is. And sometimes you definitely need to hear feedback that is a little uncomfortable, but helpful in getting you to the next stage of your brand, helping you scale your business because Everyone falls in the same traps and the same problems, and you just need someone who's experienced to be able to tell you, here's what you need to avoid, and here's how you avoid it. So thank you so much, Ali, for everything you do for this industry. I would have you back on the show tomorrow, but I'd make other people jealous that they couldn't co-host, but we gotta have you back soon.
[01:10:17] Allison Ball: Yeah, when do I get to be like the most frequent guest on Elevator Talk?
[01:10:22] Ray Latif: I think we've had folks that have been on the show five times already, but that's since like 2020. I think you first joined the show, what, 2024 or so?
[01:10:31] Allison Ball: Yeah, I think 24.
[01:10:33] Ray Latif: Yeah, so we've had hosts since 2020. So just tell me when you want to be on and you'll be on.
[01:10:39] Allison Ball: I'll be back in a couple months.
[01:10:41] Ray Latif: There you go.
[01:10:42] Allison Ball: Thank you so much, Ray. This was a pleasure.
[01:10:44] Ray Latif: Thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you to all the entrepreneurs who joined us. You people are amazing. Thank you to everyone watching or listening, and thanks to our amazing team at BevNET, Nosh, and Taste Radio, the best in the business. Signing off for everyone, I'm Ray Latif, and we'll talk to you next time.
