[00:00:03] Ray Latif: Hello and welcome to another edition of the BevNET podcast. I'm Ray Latif, the managing editor of BevNET. I'm here with John Craven, the founder and CEO. Jon Landis, our brand specialist. And we have a special guest, Mr. Jeffrey Klineman, who is BevNET's editor-in-chief. Welcome, Jeffrey.
[00:00:16] John Craven: Thanks very much, Ray. It's been so long since I've seen you outside of the edit room down the hall. Exactly, exactly.
[00:00:24] Ray Latif: It's been a week. Since we started BevNET Live, it began with our beverage school session on Monday, and we are still recovering from an incredible three days of the event, as well as the prior week when we held our Brewbound session, which is a craft beer, or an event focused on the business of craft beer, and our Nosh event, Project Nosh that is, which is focused on the business of natural, healthy, I'm sorry, natural, organic, healthy, and sustainable and healthy foods. Close enough. Nahas?
[00:00:56] John Craven: Nahas.
[00:00:58] Ray Latif: Yes, exactly. Both were held in Brooklyn. BevNET Live was held in Manhattan. And as you can tell, I'm still struggling for words to describe the two weeks that we went through.
[00:01:08] Jon Landis: Well, go ahead, Jon. Well, I was gonna say, I think you might have continuously been talking. more than anyone else with the Livestream Lounge. So we'll give you a little break for that.
[00:01:18] Ray Latif: Yeah, we added it up and we held a Livestream Lounge at all three events and it was about 52 interviews that we did. As I noted to the team in the office and our team in San Diego, New York, it was pretty incredible to pull that all off and it was a great team effort. The entire of all three events were amazing. If you saw people running all over the place, if you were at the events and you saw people running all over the place, it was probably a BevNET staffer who was doing whatever they needed to do to get things going.
[00:01:45] Jeffrey Klineman: So that's the thing. Like, I don't think some of you might know that we're based in Boston and we're doing these events in New York. So we went down to Brooklyn. Stayed there a few nights came back to Boston for like 36 hours and then right back down to New York a lot of us on these, you know, I probably put a good 15 hours of Amtrak time in on this trip alone. My brain feels like mush after these events So I went to bed at 7 o'clock when I got home
[00:02:09] John Craven: Yeah, me too. We did three events in eight days, one of which was a three day long event. So we were really, we were five days on stage and three off. And so I feel like the stage has basically been dropped on my head. I can't count up the number of interviews I did. I can tell you that For me, it always feels like it's operating in the frontal lobes. So I really remember very little of what happens on stage after it's gone on. So if someone could tell me.
[00:02:47] Jon Landis: Well, we have all that on YouTube, I guess. That would be done by now. It's getting there. Watch it a second time. Yeah.
[00:02:52] Ray Latif: Yeah, so, you know, BevNET Live is something we wanted to kind of talk about. Just the show itself, we got a lot of really good feedback from folks who attended and those watching the live stream. So thanks for that positive feedback. You know, we're always aiming to get better, but I kind of wanted to talk about some... Not me. I only want to get worse. Okay. Well, you know, there's that. Well, I think it's important.
[00:03:13] Jeffrey Klineman: I'm here today. It's it's a little important to know. I mean, like, it's a little bit like BevNetLive, especially if you're on a newsletter and this and that, but you know, it is a big part of our life. It consumes a lot of our lives. And so for us to be able to come back and kind of, um, look at it, looking back at it is kind of important for us. So we wanted to bring our listeners in onto that conversation.
[00:03:34] Ray Latif: Absolutely. But one of the things we kind of wanted to talk about today and examine is some of the attendees and the brands that came to the events, kind of compare them to what we have seen in events past. It's pretty interesting, the sort of evolution of the attendance at BedNet Live over the last five years, even just if you look at the last year and a half or so. Some of the brands that were attending, so many of them came from the cold-pressed juice set, which is still a fast-growing category. But if you just look at sort of the New Beverage Showdown as an example of what entrepreneurs are looking at for white space, for opportunities in New Beverage industry, what we saw was a good number of kids' beverages. It looks like kids' beverages seem to be something that entrepreneurs are looking at as an interesting opportunity. Shots, juices packed in shot format. natural, obviously, not necessarily of the energy set or of the, we're trying to take on five hour kind of entrepreneur. What we didn't see, which was kind of interesting out of these, you know, youthful entrepreneurs was some of the dairy alternative set, the nut milks that was sort of lacking, that was sort of missing from this year's semi-finalists.
[00:04:39] John Craven: But we did have every nut milk in the world in December. So I think, you know, it's kind of a welcome change.
[00:04:47] Ray Latif: It is. It's kind of interesting though, you know, and maybe it has something to do with the venue too. Maybe it's a New York versus Santa Monica thing, kind of thing as well, or West Coast, East Coast. I guess we'll find out if that's something that continues on, you know, or maybe is a West Coast kind of based thing in our event in Santa Monica in six months. You know, just in terms of trends and some of the white space that entrepreneurs are seeing, you know, John Craven, you know, where was your thinking on that?
[00:05:10] Jon Landis: I mean, pretty much every single thing that was there was, you know, health and wellness oriented. I think there were a few kind of craft soda type things in there. You know, it was really interesting to see, you know, I was thinking, you know, a little further back to the early, early days of BevNET Live, which I guess Jeff maybe remembers, but kind of just energy drink city. And, you know, we had coolers filled with big 16 ounce or bigger, in some cases, cans. And you'd sort of struggle to find something that was actually, like, good for you.
[00:05:41] John Craven: But some of them tasted less like aspirin than others. There you go. That's kind of all you can hope for. Back in the day, you could hope for less caffeine.
[00:05:52] Ray Latif: I certainly remember when I first came to BevNET in 2011. I mean, our office cooler was pretty indicative of what we were seeing in terms of entrepreneurial brands. It was full of energy drinks. It was full of energy shots. And now our beverage cooler is filled with good-for-you beverages, good-for-you teas, juices. Jeffrey Klineman is drinking Jeffrey Klineman. He's the only Jeff in the room, actually, so I'll just call him Jeff from now on. Jeff is drinking a Temple Turmeric product. I'm drinking Matcha Loves, Matcha Colada. We've got an Underberg over there, which has been around forever, so. I guess some things never change, right? But you know, to continue on your point, that health and wellness thing is actually interesting. And it sort of went beyond BevNET Live too. Obviously with a conference called Project Nosh, with the Nosh standing for Natural, Organic, Sustainable, and Healthy, you're going to have that focus. But it extended to Brewbound as well. You know, we had interesting talk on stage about craft beer drinkers really being healthier and sort of like focusing a lot of their eating habits on healthier kind of foods.
[00:06:47] Jeffrey Klineman: And the ingredients, you know, and the, you know, the impending what's going to happen or there are going to be nutrition facts on beer and whatnot.
[00:06:54] Ray Latif: So I guess in terms of like the interest in from investors that are looking to put money into some of these companies, we did see a lot of and hear from a lot of companies and investment bankers that were thinking, hey, you know what, let's look for the next big thing. Let's look for what's coming next in terms of trends and innovation. Jon Landis, you know, where were you on talking to some of those folks?
[00:07:16] Jeffrey Klineman: I want to bring that question back to what you were saying earlier about all the cold press juices that we were seeing a number of years ago. And now, you know, it's not the fridges were not overfilled with cold press juice. I remember three years ago, we had like 12 massive chest coolers and we didn't have enough space to keep all the refrigerated items cold overnight and whatnot. And we just didn't have that problem this year. And I think that investors, retailers, distributors are all looking for more healthier shelf stable items. And I think the entrepreneurs are kind of catching wind of that a little bit too. It's really expensive to go cold chain the whole way. You know, it's not necessarily, It's really expensive for the consumers to purchase those products. And now we're seeing more price wars on cold-pressed juice and whatnot. We're seeing better fuel products that are aseptically filled. They're shelf-stable. I think that that's more leaning towards what we're starting to see, and maybe a driving factor in that.
[00:08:13] Jon Landis: Well, we also saw more. I mean, there were still plenty of, you know, refrigeration required products. But to your point, I mean, I think a couple of years ago it was like everyone was kind of the same. You know, there was probably enough kale in those fridges to kill everyone there. Or make them all alive. Yeah, or something. I mean, I guess if they had fiber, maybe make them regular too. But I think now you're seeing things that are, you know, you look at a brand like WellWell or the Monfifo that won the showdown and people have kind of evolved beyond just creating that sort of like token cold-pressed juice play. And HPP is still very much a part of, you know, what we're seeing there, but again, different applications of it. And I think that's pretty neat. I mean, I feel like this time around there were maple flavor, not maple flavor, but, you know, maple water based products. There were some, you know, coffee, cold brew type products. switchels you know all these things that well not cold brew coffee but many things that didn't even exist like five years ago i think that's pretty neat that at this point that's kind of where the majority of the products are as opposed to them being like the oddball that's in the cooler a lot a lot of early categories i i wanted to ask you guys how much you think
[00:09:23] John Craven: The Suja deal is affecting the HPP juice space. I mean, do you think that we've sort of hit this category maturation point in HPP juice with regard to the sort of vegetable blends and that people are starting to move toward other spaces?
[00:09:42] Jon Landis: Yeah, I think it seemed like when you, you know, sort of gauge the pulse of the different people there, and I mean, that came up in conversation, you know, during the showdown judging, and clearly that's an opportunity that it's sort of closed, right? All the way down to, you know, when we were talking to Marcus Entebbe from Juice Press, I mean, I don't know if it was while we were on the stage or not, but he was someone that was, like, thankful for that. As a player that's got some scale in retail, even, like, somebody's at least set the bar, right? has soured the opportunity for, you know, startups and people trying to raise money and stuff like that. I mean, I feel like that's probably one of the more, I was going to say pressured, maybe bad choice of words, but it's a harder place for people to just find money right now.
[00:10:23] Ray Latif: Well, I mean, there's two things happening just in my view. One is that Daily Greens is a good example of this. Sean Martin, who was up on stage, was talking about how difficult it is to really compete in the cold-pressed juice category right now, because Suja has really pushed down the price of that everyday juice.
[00:10:41] John Craven: Yeah, she mentioned that a lot of the competition was taking place on price rather than on innovation.
[00:10:47] Ray Latif: So if you're an entrepreneur and you're trying to compete with Sujan Price, I mean, it's extraordinarily difficult to do that unless you have a ton of money behind you. And a lot of these brands just don't have that. The other thing I feel like is happening, and this is sort of something we saw in the showdown, is that some of these brands are getting very, very specific about who they are. We saw Single Skew, Well Well say, okay, we're this, we're a three ingredient blend that is for athletes. You know, they're really honing in on that watermelon, that cherry juice, that lemon, and they really pushed forward that function first more than, you know, the refreshment, that everyday kind of health and nutrition. The other thing that you're seeing, I mean, and you saw it in shot form too, you know, a lot of very specific function in these little shot bottles. Vive Organic is a good example of that. You were going to say something, Jeff?
[00:11:34] John Craven: Yeah, I was going to make two points here. One is that seeing WellWell do pretty well just sort of reinforces, I think that's a good thing for watermelon water. I think it says to a couple of brands that there's a little space on the flank of HPP juices where we might be able to get some more traction out of something like a watermelon water. The other part is that it looks like the juice bars, the on-premise, may in fact end up winning this sort of race to be the defining juice format.
[00:12:13] Jeffrey Klineman: Yeah, that's kind of where I was going to go with your earlier question about is Suja kind of laying the landscape right now. I think as far as a portfolio of like here is a line of juices, it's becoming increasingly harder to play in there because it's now becoming more about price and it's not becoming about your individual juice. But to your point with WellWell, Monfifo, Watermelon Water, there is room for like innovation with a brand that's just going to come through, do one thing, do it really, really well.
[00:12:42] John Craven: But something like Monfifo, I mean, that's straight out of a juice bar, right?
[00:12:46] Jon Landis: It is. And I mean, I think the other thing that I thought was pretty interesting just during the juice press conversation is that they have like 65 SKUs of juice. And that's a company that when speaking with them, they say that their sort of goal is to revolutionize fast food. And, you know, it's a pretty interesting, again, if you think about sort of where this cold press juice started with sort of all these tiny little places with juicers in the back, and then it sort of has grown up into like Suja and Blueprint Evolution, who are all at a raised point playing the price game where it's super tough for anyone else to play. And it's really kind of come full circle in a pretty short period of time in the grand scheme of how trends evolve in New Beverage industry. Looking back to how energy drinks and, you know, vitamin water type products evolve, this feels like the blink of an eye. Those seem like much slower.
[00:13:33] John Craven: Smaller category.
[00:13:34] Jon Landis: I guess so.
[00:13:35] Ray Latif: It's a smaller category, but it's also, I mean, if you're talking about juice bars and on premise, it's also a very specific consumer. The kinds of juices and the kinds of food that they're selling at Juice Press It's not for an everyday consumer. It's for an everyday consumer who can afford that kind of stuff, which, you know, juice press is still, if you're talking about their full-size juices, they're still priced at $10, $11. And you know, juice press isn't everywhere. Most of their stores are in New York. You know, you have one that's in Boston right now and another one that's supposed to open in Boston. And those aren't even proven yet. Those aren't even proven concepts yet in this area.
[00:14:04] Jeffrey Klineman: But I think even just to a larger point, just cold press juice, even in grocery, is a pretty small consumer base compared to your more traditional beverage categories.
[00:14:13] Ray Latif: Right, but the goal and the forecast is it's going to be huge. The forecast is that it's going to be as big as, you know, some of the stuff that we've seen forever, like an Odwalla and like a naked.
[00:14:23] Jon Landis: Right. Well, that's sort of, you know.
[00:14:24] John Craven: But those, those aren't huge. Right.
[00:14:27] Jon Landis: No, but we're talking about chipping away at least brands that are in the billions, as opposed to when people are chasing things like Asuja as well as they've done their still pretty small, right? And I think it's just something that, you know, I guess to your point of energy drinks being much bigger relative to juice, it's sort of interesting to see entrepreneurs trying to play in the white space in a much smaller category. And in turn, it's making innovation kind of happen a lot quicker. I think, you know, it's something that, again, getting back to kind of what was in our sample bar coolers at BevNET Live, it's interesting that we're already seeing that in places like maple water too, which is, you know, even a more nascent category.
[00:15:02] John Craven: Everybody into the maple pool.
[00:15:04] Jon Landis: I guess so, you know.
[00:15:05] Ray Latif: There is something to be said though about juice presses sort of, we're going to stick to our niche and stay with, you know, our store, stay with our on premise. And then you see a guy like Todd Carmichael, who really wants to bring that cafe experience out and wants to give it to everyone. And his sort of approach to that, we talked about money and we talked about, you know, needing a lot of money to pull something like that off. And he's got Hamdi Ulukayo, who's the primary investor in La Colombe. to help him do that. And he's got a very kind of difficult and complex way of doing that. I don't mean difficult, complex way of doing that with his new draft latte in the can. They spent a lot of money producing that prototype and they're hoping to put it out there everywhere. And whether or not the public sort of embraces that, whether or not retailers and distributors embrace that remains to be seen.
[00:15:49] John Craven: What's the price point supposed to be on that?
[00:15:51] Ray Latif: I believe it's $299.
[00:15:52] John Craven: Okay, so how much does a cold brew at Starbucks cost? More than that.
[00:15:56] Jon Landis: It's interesting, you know, just to that point, I mean, when we were down in Brooklyn in the Red Hook area for, for Nosh, I, you know, stopped at like the, like, I gotta get a New York bagel. That's all I cared about. And I go into this bagel place and it's cold brew coffee. And I started noticing after that, it's like everywhere you go is making cold brew and You know, what does a cold brew coffee in a bagel place cost? It's a buck. So it's pretty interesting to see something like a La Cologne or even, you know, a Starbucks is kind of getting heavier into it with their nitro that they're rolling out this year. It will be interesting to see how someone like a La Cologne or even, you know, someone who's been doing it for a while at Stumptown or whoever actually can maintain that are pretty high price point. I think it is something that if you look at kind of a long-term performance of like ready to drink coffee, which has basically been Starbucks Frappuccino, right? This is something that, I don't know, will it be finally the piece of the category that actually manages to get some share from that?
[00:16:55] John Craven: Yeah, it's hard though. It's hard to imagine them sliding a product that's close to par or even above par with a restaurant experience or I mean with a restaurant cost being able to develop scale when restaurant availability is so strong and restaurant freshness is so strong. Now I know that the idea that a restaurant like, I mean, that's the idea, right? You can pull a nitro-infused latte, pour it out of a can. Right, nitrous oxide, but yeah. And get the same experience. that one might get at a La Colombe. The question is, is the novelty of getting a cafe in a can so much greater than stopping and getting like a fresh cold brew at par or cheaper even?
[00:17:52] Jon Landis: But I think you have to, you know, keep in mind that beverages are what an impulse buy, right? So for me, like, where do I buy a Stumptown, you know, Nitro, which is the only one that's available right now in our area. I buy it at Whole Foods. You know, I don't have another cafe to go to. I'm there grocery shopping. It's...
[00:18:10] John Craven: grocery store to go to either, John.
[00:18:12] Jon Landis: I have a Trader Joe's, you know, lived in a nice sort of, I guess, sheltered area or something. But the coffee that's made in the Whole Foods store, like, I wouldn't drink that. I wouldn't drink the free samples when they're giving it out. But I think it is something that... It is very consumer-based, as you were saying, right? No, but I mean, it's an impulse like, yeah, I would love to go to a Stumptown, you know, shop or a La Colombe or whatever, a George Howell over my way. But, you know, you can't sometimes. So I think it's something that, I don't know, it'll be interesting to see how that.
[00:18:42] John Craven: That's an interesting parallel, right? So the indie coffee on premise location, does that spread faster than the super expensive RTD that's right now really only going through very select specialty channels.
[00:19:01] Ray Latif: Well, I mean, I guess, you know, again, that sort of remains to be seen. I think the difference between what La Colombe does or is attempting to do and what, you know, these other cafes and RTD products that are out there are doing is that seemingly they're trying to offer a different kind of drinking experience. The nitro. No, the nitrous oxide, sir, for example. And I don't want to get too deep into this, because it's something where we can have a whole discussion on coffee and different things. We should do that. We should do that, actually.
[00:19:30] John Craven: We should have a whole discussion on nitrous oxide, actually. There you go. I see what you did there. Wow on nitrous oxide.
[00:19:39] Jon Landis: You Jon Landis can handle that podcast. There you go.
[00:19:45] Ray Latif: They're trying to offer a different sort of a textured experience, a textured drinking experience that isn't available in other coffee shops. It isn't available in RTD. So again, that's a very, very difficult thing to do to sort of introduce and educate consumers, a broad set of consumers to that kind of But if you've got a lot of money, going back to that, you know, our point 10 minutes ago, if you've got a lot of money, you're off to a better start. You've got a chance. But, you know, some of these entrepreneurs who are out there and have no money, and this goes sort of back to, you know, how do you break out? How do you really stand out and establish categories? It's tough, but you know, there are companies that have done it and it's possible. I just look at a few of the successful brands and how they did it.
[00:20:24] Jeffrey Klineman: I think that Jeff's point is a lot of merit because it's coming from La Cologne, which is like this high standard indie cafe. So their product needs to follow that high standard. But also John's point has a lot of merit too. RTD Coffee has been this Starbucks Frappuccino in a bottle, like calorie bomb. No one's really raving about that product so much. The La Cologne product is far superior. You know, I don't know many people who would argue that.
[00:20:50] Jon Landis: I mean, look, it's just a different path of something that is
[00:20:52] Jeffrey Klineman: Innovative and maybe less is this wave gonna carry far enough to bring them into mainstream? I think it's really this lock alone versus high brew kind of comparison I like I think it's in an interesting platform.
[00:21:06] John Craven: Yeah comparison. I Okay, because you have independent and high-end coffee shops sprouting like weeds. Now, certainly an RTD, like the beauty of RTD is that when it gets legs under it, it can run anywhere really fast. And that's the high brew kind of play. To some extent, that's the chameleon kind of play as well, is let's go really fast. And you can do that in a lot of categories. Now, what I think is, and we called this at BevNET Live back in 2012, was this idea that these are two categories that both have strong on-premise components. And so it's a real race to get category definition as an on-premise or off-premise product. And can someone straddle the line? Well, or can they grow in parallel? And so far, they've done a good job of doing so. I think that if you were to say, I'm going to invest in juice bar futures and HPP juice futures six years ago, you'd be pretty happy if those futures were offered as a sector play.
[00:22:16] Jon Landis: Someday, maybe we should do that.
[00:22:17] Ray Latif: A bunch of interesting talking points, certainly from BevNET Live. And we should sort of, I think we will flesh out some of those out in future podcasts and stories and whatnot. Yes. Oh, sorry. You got really close to the microphone.
[00:22:29] Jon Landis: Just on a me where, you know, going back to New York.
[00:22:33] Ray Latif: Yeah. Oh, that's true. That's true. We have to be back in New York in less than a week for the Fancy Food Show, Summer Fancy Food Show 2016.
[00:22:39] Jon Landis: Punish ourselves a little more.
[00:22:40] Ray Latif: Yeah. I think it's going to be a really interesting show based on the list of brands that we've seen, the list New Beverage brands that we've seen that are going to be attending, exhibiting. It should be something that will come back with a lot of information and a lot more fuller bellies of beverages, I think. And maybe a podcast. Maybe a podcast, who knows? Now, we always end these things, and I'm sorry, but we do have to end these things at some point. We always end these things, but what have we been drinking? What have we been drinking this week? Now, I know we all drank a ton of stuff at Bevanent Live, if you weren't. Actually, some people said that they weren't drinking enough, at least in the staff. Some people said, I just didn't get to drink anything. It's the irony of being at New Beverage conference, you just forget to drink.
[00:23:14] John Craven: I ate nothing. at Project Nosh.
[00:23:17] Ray Latif: Well, then there you go.
[00:23:17] Jon Landis: I didn't have a beer at Brewband.
[00:23:19] Ray Latif: I didn't either. Yeah, I waited till after the day. I can't say any of that, sorry. But I'm going to do an on-podcast taste sample of this Veritas cold-pressed coffee that came in. It's nitro packaged. Let's see if we can get a good sound effect here.
[00:23:35] Jeffrey Klineman: What is that? What is cold-pressed coffee?
[00:23:36] Ray Latif: There we go. Cold-pressed nitro coffee from Veritas. There you go. Let's see what we got here. Tasty stuff. Tasty stuff. That's my review on that.
[00:23:47] John Craven: The head on that looks kind of flaccid there, but it doesn't cascade.
[00:23:51] Ray Latif: It's a lighter looking coffee.
[00:23:52] John Craven: It is a lighter looking coffee. I don't know where the nitro is. I haven't tried that one yet. It's a nice glass. Look at my little tool glass. It looks like a nice Belgian ale.
[00:23:59] Ray Latif: It does. It could be a Belgian ale that was wrapped in the, yeah. Yeah, like a double.
[00:24:04] John Craven: If it is, let me try some. There you go.
[00:24:06] Ray Latif: It's Monday afternoon. Come on. John Craven, what are you drinking?
[00:24:09] Jon Landis: I picked up this Doppelganger Sparkling Bitters, which is a sparkling water with a dash of tonic bitters. You know, Bill Weiland at BevNET Live said, bitters are the next big thing. Love the bitters. Here they are. You know, I'm drinking it. It's good.
[00:24:22] John Craven: I think if Bill had his way, you'd be drinking bitters with a splash of tonic water, though.
[00:24:27] Ray Latif: Probably. Yeah. Landis, what are you consuming over there?
[00:24:30] Jeffrey Klineman: I'm also kicking it out to Bill Weiland. He bought the whole conference Lunderberg shots. I did a few of them. Is that the correct pronunciation? Underberg? Underberg. I believe so. You just did a couple shots of this? No, I did them in New York. I was going to do one right now. You're going to do an on-air Underberg? My stomach has been kind of weird all day, so this should help. I'm glad to be sitting next to you.
[00:24:51] Jon Landis: within projectile distance.
[00:24:52] Jeffrey Klineman: Be careful with that. It is really strong. Well, you know, go ahead and drink that.
[00:24:59] Ray Latif: If the audience hears you puke, we'll just edit this out.
[00:25:02] John Craven: He's shaking the bottle, the remains of the bottle down into his gullet.
[00:25:07] Jon Landis: The neck is too... What's the proof on that thing? 44. Wait, that's alcoholic? Wait, 44% alcohol? 88 proof. 88 proof, I was gonna say.
[00:25:17] Jeffrey Klineman: I find it to be more like a mintier Fernet Branca, which I really like that too, but I don't think it's terribly intense. Maybe I'm just used to it. He's looking a little green. That's from the ham and cheese sandwich earlier today.
[00:25:30] Ray Latif: Anyway, Jeffrey Klineman, I have noted that you're drinking some Temple Turmeric, which is some delicious stuff, but anything else this past week that really stood out for you?
[00:25:39] John Craven: I did go and see our friend Tom and pick up four and a half cases of wine. So that's really taken up a lot of my time lately.
[00:25:49] Ray Latif: For a second, I wasn't sure which Tom you're referring to. And I know now who you're referring to. It was interesting. I thought you might have been referring to Tom Alcott from Motto, who last week brought over a whole bunch of good stuff.
[00:26:00] John Craven: Are they making wine now at Motto?
[00:26:01] Ray Latif: They're not making wine, no. Or Tom First, who I was like, is he getting back New Beverage entrepreneurship? And I didn't think so. Thanks so much for listening to this edition of the BevNET podcast. Please stay tuned for future editions, including the Summer Fancy Food Show recap or podcast, as it were. And once again, if you have any questions, comments, or ideas for future topics of the podcast, please send them to news at BevNET.com. Hope to see you, and hope to hear from you, and hope to talk to you again very soon.
[00:26:32] Jeffrey Klineman: Thanks for the Underberg, Ben.
