BevNET Podcast Ep. 24: Hacking Expo East

[00:00:03] Ray Latif: Good afternoon, good morning, and good evening. Not necessarily in that order. Hey, you're listening to the Bed Met podcast. I'm Ray Latif. I'm here with Jon Landis and John Craven. Thank you so much for listening. And if this is your first time listening, please stay to the end. There's a lot of good information throughout the show. All right. Hey, you guys watch that show, Mr. Robot? No, I haven't, but I heard it's really good. Yeah. You're missing out, dude. You should watch that. I want to check it out.

[00:00:26] Jon Landis: Season two, too confusing. No, it's not. I think it's great. I don't know. Gave me a headache. Going to try again.

[00:00:30] Ray Latif: How many episodes did you go through? Jeez, I don't know. Okay, well, continue watching it. It is complicated, but it's worth it. Okay.

[00:00:36] John Craven: We're binge-watching Orphan Black right now. And that's really cool. It's sort of another one of those shows, right?

[00:00:40] Ray Latif: Yeah, it's really cool. Okay. In that vein of hacking, and that's sort of what Mr. Robot is all about, we thought it would be an interesting idea to look at the upcoming Expo East show in Baltimore, which we're all going to here at the office, and I'm sure many of you are going to that are listening. And we thought, you know, it may be a good idea to try to hack Expo East, at least in terms of non-alcoholic beverages. I don't think there's any alcoholic beverages at the show, are there? No, probably not.

[00:01:07] John Craven: I don't think so. People have happy hours.

[00:01:11] Jon Landis: There's no shortage of booze, especially if you walk around at, say, three o'clock in the afternoon. I feel like it's a little earlier every time, right?

[00:01:19] John Craven: It just creeps up on you.

[00:01:20] Jon Landis: I feel like more than, say, 30% of the booths we go to are offering alcohol if we come back later.

[00:01:27] John Craven: There's always that Austin group, right? So there's always like the whole area of Austin where there's all those Austin-based brands and they have a big happy hour there.

[00:01:35] Jon Landis: I just love when you're talking to someone and it's like, hey, Got this Jack Daniels here if you wanna mix something up right now. It's like, hey bro, it's 10 a.m. Is it us?

[00:01:47] Ray Latif: Is it us? Is that our Instagram and Twitter posts? Because it always seems to be directed toward us. Like after we talk to someone at a booth, they're always like, oh, and hey, come back at three o'clock, we're pouring vodka. And I'm like, okay, that's a good, I'm looking forward to that.

[00:02:01] Jon Landis: I got a nice, hey, I follow your Instagram, slight pause, and then, man, you drink a lot. It made me feel great. Hey, you know, it is what it is.

[00:02:12] Ray Latif: That's part of the beverage business.

[00:02:13] Jon Landis: Is that sort of your first tip, though, is offer alcohol?

[00:02:17] Ray Latif: Well, before we even get into tips, you know, it's interesting to look at, you know, so we always compile a list as comprehensive as we can. of the Beverage Booth at the show. The way we compile it is we ask beverage companies to submit if they're attending in their booth number and they send us the info. And so we also ask for brands to send us some information about what they're presenting at the show, particularly when it comes to line extensions, brand revamps, new packaging, etc. So for those of you who have not done that yet, please reach out to us ASAP. You can get us at any different number of ways. News at BevNET is probably the easiest way to do that. So please, if you have a booth at Expo East and you have some new information to share, send us that information and we'll come visit you and write all about it.

[00:03:05] Jon Landis: And that's generally a good thing for any of these trade shows.

[00:03:08] Ray Latif: Yes, absolutely. So in terms of the current list, I mean, it's great to see so many brands being represented.

[00:03:15] John Craven: We have a list of about 200 brands in front of us right now.

[00:03:18] Ray Latif: Yeah. And how it's, you know, how the attendance has sort of evolved at these things over the past few years is. is interesting. You guys, before we even started, had talked a little bit about Cold Press Juice and how we're seeing a lot of the same brands as stalwart representatives of the show. In terms of, you know, new upstart brands, not as many, but, you know, we're expecting to see a few more.

[00:03:39] Jon Landis: These things are always interesting to look at just in terms of how categories are evolving kind of in six-month increments or whatever between these shows. And obviously, that much doesn't change from one show to the next, especially since some of these companies are committing far in advance. But I think when you look at it compared to, say, three or four years ago, or maybe even longer, I think you can start to really just see how things are evolving. I think cold-pressed juice in particular is kind of an obvious one that's evolved to me. A couple of years back, these shows all had plenty of upstarts that were going after that $9 or $10 a bottle juice. And now you really don't have that. The ones that are still standing are ones that largely have gone after a more mainstream price point and in some cases have even really shifted away from being just a cold-pressed juice company, as Suju would be an example of that, of course. Beyond that, you know, one of the things we always keep expecting to see an uptick in that doesn't really seem to be represented here are kombucha companies, which that's something that there are certainly a growing number of those companies, but I don't know. I mean, there aren't that many, maybe, what, a handful or so.

[00:04:59] John Craven: We never see GTs at a trade show. Do you think that the category leader not doing trade shows has any effect on the smaller guys?

[00:05:07] Jon Landis: They have a long history that I can't remember the facts of basically not being allowed to

[00:05:15] John Craven: be at Expo East or West? Well, either way, I mean, even if they're not at Expo East or West, there are other shows out there. I just don't know. It just popped in my head when you say kombucha that the category leader doesn't do it. Does that send a message to the people that are smaller and trying to gain some of that market share that you don't need trade shows to do that if they're able to do it that way?

[00:05:36] Ray Latif: I think there's some credence to that. I've heard that from a couple folks. The other thing is kombucha at Expo East has always been kind of bare bones. And some people have pointed to the idea that it just hasn't resonated as strongly on the East Coast as much as it has on the West Coast. Now, whether or not that's true, You know, there are probably more producers now, I'm just guessing at this point, probably more producers that are based on the West Coast.

[00:06:03] Jon Landis: Well, that's true of like effectively all of these.

[00:06:06] Ray Latif: Sure, sure. If the trend itself, if you don't have the consumers, you don't have the consumer base and the demand for kombucha, you know, along the East Coast, you know, why be represented out here? There is an opportunity, it seems like, but if it's still not developed, then what's the point?

[00:06:20] Jon Landis: Well, I think it also speaks to the fact that there are fewer companies that have national aspirations in the kombucha category than some of these other ones. You know, if you're making, say, a ready-to-drink tea, I think it would be kind of hard to not have national aspirations. You know, you certainly don't have kind of do-it-yourself production that a lot of these kombucha companies have, too. Again, that's just one that I would have expected to see more. But at this point, it is largely the companies that do have those national aspirations that are showing up at these, and that's it.

[00:06:54] Ray Latif: And you're hearing mixed results from some of these companies that are trying to go national, too. I mean, on one side, you have a company like HealthAid, which seems to be growing really fast, even faster than they can even keep up with in terms of production. And then on the other side, you have Reed's, which produces ginger beer, among other carbonated soft drinks. And they have a kombucha line. And I talked to one of their brand representatives at the Fancy Food Show in this past June, and they seemed a little down on kombucha. They had a big production hiccup that stopped their production for a while, I believe. Right. And maybe it's just that they weren't able to recover from that as much. Anyway, they'll be represented at the show and it'll be interesting to see what they have to say about the category. As far as other categories, I think everyone is expecting to see and keep a closer eye on what's going on with coffee. I, in particular, I remember a couple of years ago at Expo East when cold brew was right on the fringes, Kohana was one of the first brands to really be part of that set. Haven't heard much from those guys and kind of interested to see where they're at right now. But, you know, in terms of new products and brands, it seems like Calafia is always ready to launch something new. And, you know, there's that's nothing that's to be expected for a lot of these companies at trade shows, but they're always coming through. I mean, they have, is it a single source cold brew unsweetened coffee that's coming out? I think so. And as far as, you know, other brands in that particular category, I'm interested to see, you know, High Brew off their recent investment and, you know, partnership with Dr. Pepper Snapple. It'd be interesting to see how they're focused on the natural channel, whether that is still, you know, their primary interest.

[00:08:32] Jon Landis: Yeah. And I think, you know, just coffee as a whole, I mean, there's certainly a lot of companies that are in here, which is no surprise given that I don't even think we've had a podcast episode where we haven't gone without mentioning cold brew, at least at some point. So yeah, I mean, that's no surprise. Outside of that, you know, what's always interesting to me about this particular show, and I feel like I guess every trade show has this to some extent, but Expo East, or excuse me, East in particular, is that sort of dynamic of, I guess, this kind of polarizing response that you get from people. Literally, in some cases, they're like three booths apart and you'll hear like, wow, the show's dead. And then you hear the can't keep up, it's so busy, it's crazy. And it's not just like hyperbole, like you see it, you know, there are some booths where again, there's literally like no one there. And then whatever, maybe an aisle away, there's like a huge crowd. And I think that's something that in terms of, you know, how people approach a show like this, certainly there has to be some level of impact just on companies, you know, how prepared they are, both in terms of building up hype before the show and kind of delivering when they're there. That's always an interesting thing. And other shows like Expo East, you know, there's just so many people. It's kind of like, how can you not have a crowd in front of your booth? They might not actually be going to your booth, but there's probably a crowd trying to get through. So this one, I think it's a little more kind of a challenge and requires good execution.

[00:10:01] Ray Latif: For sure, for sure. And you know, in the end, it's one of those things where Expo East is a smaller show and the expectations aren't as high as they are for Expo East. But it seems like the brands that really pay attention to their booze, pay attention to promoting themselves and their products and come with something new are always the ones that end up being or having successful shows.

[00:10:23] John Craven: And it doesn't always have to be something new that you're launching. You know, there, I see a number of brands on this list here that I don't know that I've seen them at a trade show necessarily before, but they've definitely been around for about a year or two. And this is kind of like their trade show debut. So just keep in mind, if you're in that category, there's going to be a lot of eyeballs on your brand that have never seen you before. And that's in itself enough to drive that kind of curiosity.

[00:10:51] Jon Landis: Also, just beyond that, I guess there's kind of that part of the equation of just what a company is trying to get out of these shows. And I think that's another interesting thing where certainly there are brands that are super early, that it's like every person they meet is like brand new and a new opportunity. And then there are companies that are a little further along, and then there are the more established ones. And it's interesting, the companies that seem just hyper focused on buyers, especially buyers from like big chains, seem oftentimes to be a little disappointed. Whereas, look, I mean, there's so much stuff that you can get out of these. It could be investors, it could be new hires, it could be any number of things, new suppliers for that matter.

[00:11:33] John Craven: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, our conferences are often a tiny little sliver of the population that attends a trade show like this, but tend to be a lot of these more important people walking around. So just know that there are so many different types of people. There's always this really high expectation, especially entrepreneurial brands, to get a return on their investment on this event. you know you're super stressed out and it's sell sell sell and you know cut off any conversation if a buyer walks up but that doesn't always need to be the way that you operate and in fact it can be a little off-putting to somebody that could be quite important like an investor that you're just not aware of because you don't recognize their company name and they don't have a buyer tag so you know always just kind of give give everyone equal time a day, you know, the buyers don't necessarily need to be doted after, you know, they, they get that enough, you know, you're not gonna turn one buyer away and ruin your company. So, you know, I would definitely echo that sentiment and giving each person the time of day and not trying to be so laser focused just on the buyers.

[00:12:39] Ray Latif: And in the end, you have to find a way to stand out and be different at these shows. I mean, you're at a natural food show. Everyone's marketing a Natural Products. Most cases, people are marketing organic products. So within your category, how do you stand out? I mean, it can't just be packaging. You know, you've got to find some way to say we're different than what everything else that's out there. We talked earlier, you know, we have an editorial meeting and before these shows and we talked about the coconut water category as one category where everyone seems to be trying to offer something new and premium than what they previously offered. We've seen that kind of evolve over the last year or so with brands that are introducing organic or differently formulated products like HPP products. We saw that with C2O, which introduced an organic and HPP product earlier this year. Vitacoco with their Cocoa Community product, which is going to be at the show as well. Rebel Kitchen, which markets a line of coconut smoothies. It's a UK-based brand that sells their products here. They're introducing a HPP coconut water that was based on the original Yunoko brand, which is also UK-based and had a very small distribution run here in the US. I'm interested to see if we ever actually see Zico's organic product and make it out onto the shelf, and whether or not they're really going to be doing something with that at the show. Because that was something, I think it was last year, right?

[00:14:00] John Craven: At Expo East?

[00:14:01] Ray Latif: I'm sorry, Expo East?

[00:14:02] John Craven: I think we got mock-ups of it or something?

[00:14:04] Ray Latif: Yeah. And then there was some introduction, but I haven't seen much of it since.

[00:14:07] Jon Landis: Well, just to, I guess, correct one point there, too. Some of those brands are in HPP, like the Cocoa Community, for example. But the point that you were trying to make is totally true in that all of these brands have kind of moved beyond just having a Me Too, like pasteurized coconut water. And that's another thing that probably, again, I don't know, four or five years ago, there were a lot of those, right? I think that was kind of what everyone was doing. It was that point where all the flavors were coming out and now it's just back to like pure coconut water, but how to make it higher end. Coconut water has been one of the more sort of resilient categories and it's also had kind of some interesting, I don't know, maybe detours and just sort of the directions that it's gone. I mean, I think, you know, HPP was something that everyone thought would be basically the whole direction of the category. You know, now you have the category leader of HPP coconut water kind of backing off of HPP too.

[00:15:11] Ray Latif: Right. I guess I was termed, maybe I spoke, said HPP when I meant premium. It feels like there's, talking to suppliers, they feel that there's a ripe opportunity for a premium set to challenge what's currently available in the coconut water category. I'm not sure why they see that opportunity, you know, considering that Harmless Harvest has such a stranglehold and, you know, for lack of a better word, on that set, but I hope to see and talk to some of these folks about what their marketing plans and their sales initiatives are for some of these higher-end, for these higher-end line extensions.

[00:15:45] Jon Landis: Whether you're exhibiting or just walking the show, there's certainly plenty of stuff to get kind of out of this show, just in terms of like people that you meet and the networking and all that sort of stuff. So I think, you know, we've been talking a lot just about the categories and the people that are exhibiting at the show, but this is a great opportunity for anyone who's going for sure.

[00:16:07] John Craven: If you have access to attend, there's no reason not to. I don't think it's an expensive badge to purchase just to walk. There's a lot of great people walking around. I'll tell you, I spend maybe not half my time, but a good portion of my time just talking to people that I run into walking the aisles. on top of all the booths that I visit, and I've got a list of 250 booths to visit in two days. So, you know, I'm constantly moving, and there's a lot of really interesting people, and it can be awkward to stop someone in the middle and introduce yourself, but I've definitely done that a handful of times. I run into a lot more people that I do know, usually the people I spend my time talking to. Going back, I think, before the whole Coconut Water thing, there was, you know, how do you stand out in your category when you're exhibiting, There's so much other competition abound. It's really like personality, I think. It's knowing your pitch and having confidence and delivering it and giving people the answers that they're looking for and coming prepared. You know, there's definitely a lot of people, not a lot, but there's definitely been people that I know that come to these trade shows and you start asking about their product and it's just two or three minutes later they haven't stopped talking and you just you can't do that at a trade show like you have to have a very concise this is what we're offering this is our consumer offering and this is why it's important.

[00:17:30] Jon Landis: Look at it this way like the trade show floor is like one big cooler right and your booth is like the drink in the cooler that some person's trying to decide if they want to go and like pick up and interact with And there are definitely booths that you kind of don't want to stop at. And fortunately, most of those aren't beverage companies. I feel like they're food companies that are out there. I think the companies that are successful at these shows have done the legwork to make something that people actually want to stop at. And, you know, they have their product displayed in a way that you can come up and interact with it without having to actually stand there and ask someone to hand it to you behind a counter, right?

[00:18:09] John Craven: Yeah. It's just about being in the right mindset and being prepared and having that confidence. Some of the people that I think of that I think do it really well are Kevin Duffy at SideRoad and Jeff Rose at Drink Maple. I go and talk to them, and I'm at their booth, and they let their product do the talking. It's front and center. It's interesting. It's intriguing enough that people are going to stop and start to taste it. And they come in and just can I answer any questions for you? Let me let you drive the conversation you know I'm here I'm a I'm a resource for you to know everything that you want to know about this brand and that's kind of the approach that I've seen them take at it and it seems to work really well I mean that It's almost like when you say go to a party and you wanna talk to that person, you don't know how, ask them questions about themselves. Don't go ramble about your product all day, all night, kind of like how I'm rambling now, but you know, because people have short attention spans nowadays.

[00:19:02] Jon Landis: I appreciate that you gave some tips on how to approach people at a party too. I don't go to a lot of parties, so, you know, I'm gonna write this down here.

[00:19:12] Ray Latif: Put it into the notes section.

[00:19:13] John Craven: Networking at business events was very similar to, you know, asking a girl to dance at the high school dance, I think.

[00:19:19] Jon Landis: Do you bust out a business card?

[00:19:21] John Craven: At the high school dance? I don't know. This has just gone horribly wrong. I mean, do you go to high school dances? When I was in high school, how did I miss that?

[00:19:31] Ray Latif: We were all in high school once, come on. Yeah, a long, long time ago. So long ago. Yes. I think there are some good tips here. And if you have any other questions about how to navigate the show, please let us know and we can try to point you in the right direction.

[00:19:44] Jon Landis: Or say hello to us.

[00:19:45] Ray Latif: Or come say hello to us. If you see us there. Yes, exactly. You know, in lieu of what we're drinking today and what we've been drinking all this week, I think given the topic, it'd be interesting to hear from you guys what you're looking forward to and who you're looking forward to seeing at this show. Jon Landis, you mentioned a couple of brands. Which of the 200 plus brands are you most excited to take a look at?

[00:20:08] John Craven: Briefly looking at this list, I can say there's at least three or four that, for different reasons, I have interest in visiting. Sattva. is a brand new tea-based thing. I've been talking to Archana on the phone for a very long time, and I'm very much looking forward to meeting her in person finally. Really fantastic tasting product. I always love stopping by Owl's Brew booth, even at 10 in the morning, and getting whatever kind of booze they're pouring because they pair it up. I think they got some seasonal offerings. They're also supposedly going to have the actual Radler product, their beer and tea blends. Yeah, they were mixing it at Fancy Foods, so I tried it there, but It's always a nice pick me up in the middle of a long trade show day, stopping at their booth. Oh, Runa has that mint honeysuckle. I can't wait to try that. I haven't been drinking much caffeine at all in 2016, but trade shows are always the exception to that and definitely happy to put down a Runa there. That's a podcast on its own. Why Landis stopped drinking caffeine? The headaches, man. Okay.

[00:21:10] Jon Landis: I'm sure that's the cause.

[00:21:11] Ray Latif: It was. It was the headaches. I couldn't handle them. All right, John Craven, what are you looking forward to seeing?

[00:21:17] Jon Landis: I'm interested in seeing the Talking Rain Sparkling Ice Essence of Water. You know, they've been such a strong play in conventional, and I think it's really interesting to see that they have a product that is, I think, nicely aligned, of course. So very curious to see what sort of reaction that gets at the show.

[00:21:40] Ray Latif: You know, we talked about dairy alternatives a couple of podcasts ago, and I really want to see if the proof is actually in the pudding for some of these brands and, you know, where they're at in terms of distribution. You know, one that really pops out for me is New Barn. I'd love to talk to those guys and see where they're at, because that premium end of the category is filling up pretty fast. You know, they've got different approaches to marketing, to packaging, just really want to find out how they're trying to stand out. You know, and for that matter, you have Malk obviously with their new distribution and wanted to talk to those folks about how they're doing in their approach to marketing going from 2016 into 2017.

[00:22:18] John Craven: Did you try that New Barn ice cream that they had at Expo? It's good stuff. That's so good.

[00:22:23] Ray Latif: I have not. But I mean, you know, that sort of speaks to this interesting opportunity for cost brand products and going across different food and beverage categories.

[00:22:32] John Craven: I do think that they're building a platform there with that for plant based milk type products. But those guys are amazing. Ted and Billy. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. Really good stuff.

[00:22:42] Ray Latif: Cool. Expo East is going to start next Wednesday and go until the Saturday of next week. And you'll have different members of the team who will be there throughout the show.

[00:22:54] John Craven: Most of us will be there Thursday and Friday on the trade show floor. So try to catch us.

[00:22:58] Ray Latif: You know, that's not the entire team, Landis. That's you who's going to be there on Thursday and Friday. Most of us. And I know if you're a follower of the podcast, look for Jon Landis. He's going to be wearing a t-shirt that says, I love the BevNET podcast. So you can't miss him.

[00:23:15] John Craven: It'll probably say fish in some way, shape, or form.

[00:23:18] Ray Latif: Isn't it the same t-shirt you wore two podcasts ago? Maybe.

[00:23:21] John Craven: You seem to pay more attention than I do.

[00:23:24] Ray Latif: All right. That's all we have for today. Thanks so much for listening. And see you at the show.