[00:00:03] Ray Latif: Hello, it's the usual team from the BEDMET podcast, and we're joined by a very special guest. It's Tom First. Everyone knows who Tom First is, don't they? He's one of the co-founders of Nantucket Nectars. He is currently a operating partner with Castanea Partners and an advisor with Furst Beverage Group. Tom, thanks so much for joining us. Good to be here. So yeah, we wanted to bring you in, a local guy here in Boston. Local legend. Local legend here in the Boston area and kind of chat about all things beverage and where your head is at in terms of investments and advising and some of the things that are about to be bubbling over, I guess, in terms of the beverage industry. And I know John Craven, our fearless founder and CEO, has a little book there with a whole host of questions. I count three.
[00:00:51] John Craven: There's actually four.
[00:00:52] Ray Latif: OK.
[00:00:53] John Craven: Yeah, four awesome pieces of ideas here. So you're working harder this week than you normally do? I mean, I wrote something down. I mean, on this page here, I scribbled some stuff, but I think I put words on this page. We've got a long history. I know the truth.
[00:01:07] Ray Latif: Yeah, you guys have known each other for what, 20 years?
[00:01:10] John Craven: Yeah, I think just under, no, sorry, just under 20 years, I think was the first time I stumbled into Nantucket Nectars's headquarters over in Harvard Square. You're still in college, right? Uh, I don't know.
[00:01:22] Tom First: I thought I originally met you when you were still in college and we were a local company and you were getting going. And basically you said you had started this thing up so that people would send free drinks to your dorm room.
[00:01:34] Ray Latif: Yeah, it worked pretty well, I guess. People are still sending free drinks, I guess.
[00:01:39] John Craven: I'm not living in my dorm room, thankfully. But yeah, you guys were like radio legends back then. So it's kind of weird to be putting you on an audio format here. Yeah, first time I think I went over to meet you and Tom Scott, friends were like, oh, those guys on the radio. It was like every other commercial seemed like a Nantucket Nectars commercial, so.
[00:01:58] Tom First: We would run them until people were sick of them, and then we'd run them some more.
[00:02:01] John Craven: I don't know if I ever got sick of them.
[00:02:03] Tom First: I mean, compared to some of the- We definitely had people that were angry at how many Nectar commercials they'd hear. But they worked. They worked really well. That was a time when radio, for us, it communicated the right message and it was a good medium. And it certainly, at that time, it worked well. I still think it works. There are different pipes to get to someone through audio advertising than there were back then.
[00:02:29] John Craven: I think it was always pretty interesting, too, in that it's a medium where you can't at all see the product, and you guys did a great job of actually making the product seem credible and like something you want to drink.
[00:02:41] Tom First: Look, outdoor and billboard, they're visual. You can see the product, but you can't talk to someone. You can't tell a story. You can't hear a personality. depending on what your advertising medium is, it's a different form of art with different texture. And then, you know, we executed well with radio. We did support it with outdoor and other forms of media that allowed you to see it. And then hopefully the thing is connected. But I mean, that's kind of how I think about advertising. It's like some way of touching the senses. And then for whatever brand you are, you kind of figure out how you want to touch their senses and then what their response is going to be.
[00:03:20] Ray Latif: I was wondering about this, and I've been wondering about it for a while. Did you guys have a jingle? Because we're lacking a real jingle, I feel like, and I'm trying to figure out if we can get some tips on that. We did. You did have a jingle. Yeah. Okay, I'm going to look this up on YouTube. It's got to be on there somewhere.
[00:03:33] John Craven: Yeah, we might have to go to the way back machine. I was going to say, we're, yeah. That's probably some pretty hard to find stuff at this point.
[00:03:40] Tom First: Yeah, I have some. I could send you one of the old ads. Maybe you can tie it onto the end of this. There's one with my grandmother on it.
[00:03:49] Ray Latif: It's really neat. Perfect. All right, down to the nitty gritty, as it were, I guess. You had a great presentation at BevNET Live, Tom, and a lot of people really liked it and kind of wanted to, you know, talk, build on that a little bit and sort of talk about what you're seeing in terms of trends on the beverage industry and how you see things moving, not just, you know, through the end of this year into 2017, but a few years down the line as well. I mean, what are some of the emerging trends that you think have some sticking and lasting value?
[00:04:22] Tom First: It really hasn't changed for me in the last couple of years, and it sounds repetitive and boring, but it's about functionality and health and wellness. I think that with the explosion of the sort of healthy food and beverage industry, I think that one of the things that beverage is derived out of it is beverage being looked at more as nutrition than just refreshment. And when you think of a beverage as a form of nutrition, even if it isn't actually nutrition, then people think a lot about not only what it does for them, but where it comes from, how the ingredients are sourced and what the story is behind that. So I would say some of the most interesting areas for me are areas where people, depending on their point in life are thinking about that beverage, about what it does for them and how, why, if it becomes a part of their daily life, it makes them feel good. And some of it could be emotional or placebo effect and some of it could be real. Protein is a really interesting category to me. I think that as protein has gone from being more of a technical sort of muscle head product to a plant-based nutrition product, it's opened up the marketplace to a wide array of consumers. It isn't just people walking into a GNC, it can be people walking into a Kroger or an Albertsons or Safeway. And then if the product gives them protein, they're sort of in that group that would be attracted to the product. And obviously a big proponent of gut health and I think kombucha has in some ways, it's funny that kombucha has led the way because it's a funky product and it's got an acquired taste and most people that enter the space in their first attempt or two to enter the space are put off a little bit and then they find themselves addicted, but I think there's a lot more runway for gut health and for probiotic beverages that are going to extend way beyond kombucha. So I, you know, that's an area that I also fund.
[00:06:32] Jeffrey Klineman: Can I ask you about HealthAid specifically? One of the things that stuck out to me and still to this day stands out to me from their presentation when they won the New Beverage Showdown was that their commitment to creating a quality product for $4.99 or less. It was like having price in their mission statement. You don't see that a lot with beverage brands. What does that mean to you? Is that important? Is it something that's saying we're committed to providing a high quality product for a low price? Or is it something that says like, you know, maybe if we scale this thing that $4.99 is like a really attractive price for an operator to be selling product at?
[00:07:10] Ray Latif: And just to add some context, Tom First an advisor and I'm sorry, board member on with HealthAid Kombucha.
[00:07:16] Tom First: It's an interesting question. I don't know whether their long term mission, maybe they said that at that time, was $4.99. I think that the mission was to provide the best tasting, best quality kombucha you could put in a bottle at a relatively reasonable price, probably a premium to the ones that are less expensive, but hopefully that the premium was reasonable enough that it allowed them to source things like cold-pressed juice and to do it in very small batches and to pay attention to every step along the process so that the probiotic content and the quality and the freshness and the raw aspect to it so it wasn't pasteurized or that you weren't filtering out everything that was good, which a lot of other brands do, that was their commitment early on. And so it's funny, because all along the path of building that business, and it was kind of similar to how we felt about Nectar's way back when, is about the trade-off between preserving what you stand for in terms of quality, which makes the product taste great and gives it the benefit that you hope it has, but then also working really hard to find a way to get it to as many consumers as possible. And that means making it reasonably priced. And those two things are really hard work. I mean, I remember in the early 90s, thinking like, we can never, ever be more than 99 cents. And juice at that time was, there were a lot of ones that were 59 and 69 cents. And I, you know, right after we spoke, we started Nectar's. I remember Tommy and me going out and speaking to people who are trying to get advice from. And they'd say, look, you guys will never be able to sell juice at $0.99. Juice is $0.59, $0.69, very fine was out there, Welch's, Dole, and all this stuff. But we couldn't, even though we weren't math majors and we certainly weren't accounting guys, we knew we couldn't sell it to 69 cents and keep our jobs. So we priced it at 99. And I do remember the time a couple of years later where we were kind of forced to a buck nine or a buck 19, and I was petrified. But thankfully, we went right to 149 shortly thereafter. We never looked back.
[00:09:38] Ray Latif: You know, an interesting point that Jon Landis brings up, because I know you're on the board also at Purity Organic, which is another company that you've been, you've had ties to for some time. And people have talked about Purity Organic, you know, in the glass bottle, high-end or at least premium juice, you know, as being sort of a Nantucket Nectars's 2.0 for you. But making that organic juice at an affordable price point is a key to their strategy as well. How low can you go, though, with that kind of a product?
[00:10:07] Tom First: You know, I don't know the answer to that. I mean, Purity Organic talks a lot about organic for everyone. That's kind of the mission for the company, again, to make a great product but allow it to be accessible to a large group of people. I think they're doing a really great job at it. I think that the trend in the industry with organic is certainly allowing companies like Purity or like Honest to be able to do things that they couldn't do 10 years ago and hopefully First of all, these companies have to be able to have reasonable margins so that they can build a brand and invest in things like marketing like we did, but then also be able to get to the consumer at an affordable price. It's probably getting a little bit easier, but I would say even in the days of Nectar, it's a juice business is not easy. It's volatile. There are sort of ups and downs with commodities and fruit. So you're always, you know, fortunately, A lot of times, there's a glut on one when there's a shortage on another. So you kind of ride those waves. But Purity has maintained a reasonable price point. I kind of look out there today, and it's about a dime to maybe $0.20 more at retail than Nectar's is in a lot of the markets where Nectar's is still out there. So people who care about where the product is coming from and the sustainability of the farms. drinking a bunch of pesticides are probably willing to make that 10 cent or 20 cent investment in an organic product.
[00:11:39] John Craven: And I guess as far as, you know, just price in general, I mean, it seems like, you know, a lot of the brands that you've been involved in lately, like are less value priced. It seems like a lot of the products that we get nowadays just in our office are kind of pushing the limits of price. I mean, do you think that that's something that, you know, is kind of a sign of the times or maybe bad execution on the part of entrepreneurs to not worry about that the way that you guys did back in the day with Nectars?
[00:12:06] Tom First: You know, I still think there's opportunity for more affordable products that are well conceived and well packaged. And I think it's a little bit of the barbell effect where things that are lower price and well executed. You know, there's some brands out there that have done pretty well on the lower end of the spectrum in terms of quality and price. And they've worked very hard either, it may not be on the front line, but they've promoted like crazy to get to an affordable price on the shelf where people could buy them, you know, two for two or 10 for 10 or whatever they're doing. But yeah, I think we've been very focused on brands or I have been very focused on brands in the health and wellness space. that are sort of leading the consumer to new places, and those tend to be a little bit more expensive and more focused on the premiumization of their category than a race to the best price.
[00:13:05] Jeffrey Klineman: Are we seeing whoever wins the race to the bottom in that premiumization emerging as the winner? You know, like Suja has all these $299, they're everywhere. How do some of these other guys who can't afford that in their wildest dreams compete on something like that? And the retailers and the consumers are all looking at something that's still a quality product at a much lower price. You know, what, what do you do to combat that?
[00:13:30] Tom First: If you're entering a category where you've got big players like Starbucks and Coke, they've built out a lot of efficiencies to be able to get to pretty low prices. But they're also trying to create market dominance and sort of ubiquitous coverage across the chains. You know, you go from whatever it is, $8.99 and $9.99 to $3.99, or I don't know, how low is it now? Is it $2.99?
[00:13:56] Jeffrey Klineman: Yeah, there's Suja at Market Basket for $2.99.
[00:14:00] John Craven: I mean, it's a similar problem that exists in the coffee space right now with all the cold brew players. It's something that feels even worse in cold brew in that your product is effectively like, you know, all the same outside of nuances, right?
[00:14:15] Tom First: I mean, look, it's highly cyclical. There was a time when Verifine was special and new way back when. And then they were $0.59, and along came Nantucket Nectars. And the same was true for Snapple. It was new at one point, and they were a premium product. And I don't think you'd look at nothing against my friends at DPS, but you probably wouldn't look at Snapple as the premium tea out there in today's market. Still a great brand. But I think there's always opportunity for creative, thoughtful people to find new ways to speak to the consumer through marketing and ingredients and story. And it's happened over and over again. And as many times as people have said, the category's over. You might have said when Arizona sort of came into Snapple space and became a $200 million company, there will never be a big, tea company again like that that's going to go build it up and get bought. And there have been a bunch of them. And there's still innovation in the tea space today. But it's all about having a point of difference. It's just if you're an entrepreneur entering the marketplace, it's a matter of really speaking to the consumer in a multitude of ways. It's funny, think about like the consumer looks at these products today almost the way someone looks at buying a house or buying a car. there's a rational side of the brain that's doing sort of an analytical judgment of their purchase. And then there's a totally irrational side. If anyone were totally rational, there would be no BMWs. Because a huge part of the purchase is they want to drive with the logo on the front of the car and the BMW logo on the back of the car. So there's this incredible emotional part of it, but there's also that part that's very rational. The same happens, you know, you're buying a house and everyone tries to be practical when you're buying your house. But a lot of times when you're buying a home, so much of it is you picturing your life in that place. I think about the food and the beverage industry the same way, is that you make very rational decisions about the construct of your product. But if that were the only part, our jobs would be easy. A lot of times a hard job is figuring out how to become a part of someone's life and how to have them, when they see your product or they learn about your company or they read your ingredient panel, how do you bring them in where they picture themselves with you, not just once, but for a long period of time. And the great brands do an amazing job at that.
[00:17:02] Jeffrey Klineman: It's almost beyond customer loyalty to like customer pride.
[00:17:05] John Craven: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and there's a side of it. You've got to get the customer to quit whatever it is they're doing now too, which I think is something that brands oftentimes don't really think about, which is, you know, obviously like there's only so many, drinks you can consume, right? So you've got to give up something else to try your product.
[00:17:23] Tom First: Yeah. And certainly there's a lot more today than there were in the 1990s.
[00:17:27] John Craven: You know, one of the other topics I was interested in talking about was just sort of the climate for startups. I mean, I think you started out and back to your, you know, BevNET Lab presentation, just talking about how everything's kind of health and wellness. It seems like right now, just anecdotally in our own little environment here in our office, I mean, the amount of products that we get, you know, it's pretty staggering as well as just kind of the types of concepts that companies are testing right now. You know, it's not thinking back, whatever, a decade or so ago when It seemed like things fit into more standardized buckets. And now there's a lot of stuff that crosses. And I guess, point being that there's just so many companies out there trying to come out with any little idea to fill some white space that may or may not be big.
[00:18:13] Tom First: Hey, it's a great thing.
[00:18:14] John Craven: I mean... Well, is it a good thing, I guess?
[00:18:16] Tom First: Well, I don't know if it's good for everyone. I mean, when we were starting Nectars, even in the first five years, I've tried to think back on... Tommy and I were, what, 23 years old, and tried to think back on like the... entrepreneurs in the food and beverage space that I spoke to that we could reach out to and have a conversation with. A really tough time. Gary Hirshberg from Stonyfield. I knew his original partner's niece, I think. And so I got introduced to Gary early on. I called Jim Cook. Tommy and I called Jim Cook at Boston Beer Company. He was like the local guy. I got to know him. We met Ben and Jerry. And so like for us, those were like the, you know, four or five people that were actually human beings that made food products instead of like, for everyone else was like, we thought we would be calling like a machine or a robot that pumped out products that were in our grocery stores. That'd be an interesting conversation, I'm sure. Yeah. But I mean, today, you know, tech came first, where young people were building companies, but there was still a period of time where everyone who graduated from college wanted to get into tech. And like, no one would go into it. Why would you go into the food and beverage industry? And now, It's amazing that young, smart, creative people have decided that this is an industry that's exciting and creative. And I think it's like the ultimate liberal arts profession. Every bit of liberal arts, art and science and math. I mean, it's all your creativity. It's one of the reasons I've always loved it. I think a lot of people discovered that. The good news for entrepreneurs today entering the space is that there are billions of dollars that are falling away from very big companies on an annual basis that are opportunities for emerging brands to potentially seize. The bad news is that there are know thousands of people entering the space every month. And I think that in some it's good for the industry because the pressure to be good at everything is higher than it was back then. I still do believe that brands that you know, work really hard Amanda Huang around long enough and get their product and story ingredients right, have a shot. But I think the one-time wonders are far and few between.
[00:20:46] John Craven: Well, I guess as far as the, you know, billions of dollars of opportunity that are out there, it seems like the beverage world, there's is very guilty of this as well, where the herd in the industry kind of moves faster than the actual market is kind of demanding it. So, I don't know, take something like coconut water or whatever when that came out. All of a sudden there were overnight a ton of coconut water brands even though the category was only so big and not growing that fast. And the one thing that boggles my mind going to shows and looking at all these products is just the types of products that are out there that to an industry person almost seem normal. but to an average consumer are like beyond bleeding edge. You know, maybe gluten free is an example of that where I feel like going to, you know, an Expo West show, I'd have to like struggle to find something with gluten. Right. But that's only a certain part of the market. So I guess really the question is like as an entrepreneur who's trying to innovate, like how do you balance the need to be innovative within the industry and industry also being the people investing and then actually the market that's buying the products?
[00:21:55] Tom First: I mean, it's a difficult thing to answer. If you wanted to be an analytical private equity guy, you'd go and you'd test what you were doing before to make sure that things were emerging out of natural and finding their way and some success in conventional. There aren't a lot of entrepreneurs that think that way. I certainly didn't think that way. And there's a certain amount, Coconut Water is an example of two or three entrepreneurs who kind of led the industry, the beverage industry, into that category through their own Discoveries and innovation and and ability to raise capital and then to execute and if those three guys hadn't been around Would it have taken five more years? So there's no guarantee that the category is going to be there But it does take, it takes leadership from people to sometimes bring the market there and it works sometimes. Steve Jobs could have made a better flip phone when the iPhone was launched, but he created a format for a phone that is the standard now by every company. Like if he hadn't done that, like what would the... What would the phone look like today?
[00:23:07] John Craven: So I guess sort of what you're saying is that innovation is just part of it, but it sounds like execution and strategy behind that is probably equally as important.
[00:23:18] Tom First: Yeah. I mean, look, there are there are categories that are on their face. niche categories that are being created. And for some creators, you know, maybe it's fine to have a great little company that sells in 500 locations in the United States and you have a nice little business and you've got a profession. There are other people that probably truly want to build a category and a big company and hopefully sell it to a strategic someday or run it themselves for till the end of time. I guess it's for people like me to judge. whether it's one or the other and whether I'm interested in being a part of it.
[00:23:55] Ray Latif: Now you mentioned that there are billions of dollars that are flowing away from the big companies and toward entrepreneurs hands at this point. Coca-Cola's venturing and emerging brands unit of which you've had sort of an indirect kind of relationship with through investment and otherwise has their stated mission as to find the next billion dollar brand for Coca-Cola. I'm wondering as we're talking and sitting here, is there a healthy beverage brand that can reach that billion dollar mark? And we had Seth Goldman on the podcast a few additions ago and I asked him, I said, you know, is it still your goal as much as it is VEBs to become a billion dollar brand? He said, yeah, absolutely. But is, I mean, are there, I mean, you know, what's the next, what are we going to see as a billion dollar brand emerge here, you know, that sets an organic or better for you brand?
[00:24:44] Tom First: Absolutely. And look, I mean, I don't say this just because I've worked with those guys at VEB, but I give them a lot of credit for that level of ambition. Like Coca-Cola gets criticism from people who don't understand that company very well about being a quote unquote carbonated soft drink business. And of course, it's a huge part of their business and it's the driving force in the history of the Coca-Cola company. But they've made not just a huge investment in the innovation side of the beverage industry and in the future of the beverage industry, they're passionate about it. And I experienced that over the last couple of years. But look, Honest is going to be a billion-dollar company. I'm convinced of it. Part of that is because of the relationship between Seth and the Coca-Cola company and Seth himself. But I think there will be many other brands and categories that will be built that are going to be billion-dollar categories with billion-dollar brands in them. Some of them may be sort of taking an existing category and reinventing it. It may not just be like something we don't, I'm not saying it's like something totally new, like bone broth is about to become a billion dollar category. I'm not saying it won't either, but if you look at gut health, I think there will be more than a couple billion dollar brands in the next 10 or 15 years in that space. And I think there are other categories where the same is true.
[00:26:14] Ray Latif: Now you touched on gut health. This is the second time you kind of let off talking about how you think protein is going to be or is currently a really important trend in beverages. And I was wondering about protein and what you kind of mean by that. Are you talking about beverages that are predicated on the protein business, or are you talking about other kinds of beverages, other beverage categories where brands infuse protein into line extensions?
[00:26:41] Tom First: I'm probably talking about both. I think the opportunity exists in both places. The genesis of my thought is this thinking about the convergence of food and beverage, where people are looking at beverage as a form of nutrition and health and diet. And I think it's a really interesting space because there's a very emotional Response to pouring liquid down your throat the delivery system of beverage and it's very ritualistic all of us are exposed to this industry and people are wildly interested in it because people attach themselves to their beverages and they happen to mostly be branded and a lot of them have stories and, you know, their ingredients and everything. And that's why people come to trust them and then make them part of their lives. And so as nutrition and sort of nourishment in beverages has become a bigger and bigger thing, I think that protein has an opportunity to be a really big, big part of that.
[00:27:49] Ray Latif: Any particular brands that stand out for you?
[00:27:51] Tom First: Not particularly right now, but I'm on the spot.
[00:27:55] Jeffrey Klineman: I think it's true for the other side too. I think a lot of entrepreneurs out there are making their product themselves with kombucha and coffee and with craft beer. And even there's guys out there that are like making tea and putting it in kegs and bottling it. And I think that there's a more emotional connection between the brand owners and the liquid inside the bottle nowadays than there ever has been too. I think we're seeing more brands stick around a lot longer than we used to. And I think that that has a lot to do with it. There's less of like, oh, I'm going to make an energy drink, go to a co-packer, eight months later, it's not selling. All right, I'm going to go on to the next thing. People are investing a lot more of themselves into these products.
[00:28:36] Tom First: There's more of an opportunity for brand builders to find routes to market and access to consumers, direct access to consumers today than they had certainly when I was building my company. We had nothing. There was no cell phones and no internet. But that ability to actually communicate directly with the consumer, and not just tell your story, but Create loyalty through them and maybe even in some cases to conduct commerce. It's changing the marketplace in many parts of industry right now. There's you read the papers and it's like Amazon's eating the world. And I think that has a big impact on the food and beverage industry as well. And for some companies, they could sell a decent amount of product direct. It's, you know, I don't know if you guys know this, but early on in BevNET and Craven's career, he had a side of the company that was direct shipping beverages. Yeah. And actually Craven was the first person that ever told me who Jeff Bezos was. I don't know if you know that, but you told me that you, before Amazon launched, I remember you telling me a story that you had read that this guy was going to start a site selling books on the internet.
[00:29:52] John Craven: Yeah. We both missed out.
[00:29:53] Tom First: Yeah. We missed out. We wouldn't be here right now. We'd be on a beach, but you'd be in your Teslas. But that dynamic, has a big impact on an entrepreneur's ability to create a real idea, communicate directly with consumers and start building a company of some sort. And then, as you're saying, kind of hang around for a while. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:30:14] Ray Latif: Well, we're running out of time and I wanted to try something new, especially now that we have a guru of the beverage industry.
[00:30:21] John Craven: I'm a little nervous with what you're going to say.
[00:30:23] Ray Latif: Just very simple word association, maybe phrase association based on the kind of beverage category. And I wanted to see, you know, just pick out some things. I mean, we've got a variety of beverages here on the table. We know how you feel about kombucha, so I'm not going to ask you about kombucha, but you guys can think of one. But how about this? I'll ask you about a beverage category and you give me, I don't know, three or four words, a sentence on how you feel about it. Is that cool? Sure. Okay, cool. All right. I need your mic right here because I know Pratt's going to get mad at me. Joshua Pratt or our AV guys are going to get mad at me otherwise. All right. Cold brew coffee.
[00:30:55] Tom First: It gives me energy.
[00:30:58] John Craven: All right, Craven. Oh, I have to give a word.
[00:31:01] Ray Latif: Or a beverage category.
[00:31:03] John Craven: Can I say iPhone 7?
[00:31:05] Ray Latif: Oh, so you're saying something, a non-beverage thing. No, no, no. I was going beverage, but he's going non-beverage.
[00:31:13] John Craven: I just want to know your thoughts on the iPhone 7.
[00:31:14] Ray Latif: Oh, that's the next word.
[00:31:16] John Craven: Yeah. That's the next. I'll own it soon. You don't own one? No. Jeez, I feel like I don't even know you anymore. Do you have one? It's right here. Wow. Geez, everyone's falling behind.
[00:31:28] Jeffrey Klineman: Is that the new watch, too? Should I get it?
[00:31:31] Tom First: Yeah, you should get it. Did you get the new watch, too? Maybe. You already got the new watch? Maybe. Geez. All right, Landis, what do you got? Entrepreneurism. A word that when Tommy and I were starting, we did not know what it meant. Truly. Plant-based waters. I think it's a growing, interesting category. I think there's going to be a lot of new innovation in it.
[00:31:56] John Craven: John, you got anything else? We're going around and around here. Well, we'll stop at six. Jeez, I'm still focused on the iPhone 7 here.
[00:32:05] Ray Latif: All right, I got one. Now, again, you already touched on this, so tea.
[00:32:11] Tom First: My kids drink a lot of tea and they leave the cups around with the tea bags in the cup, like all over the house, and it annoys the hell out of me.
[00:32:20] Ray Latif: Sounds like someone needs a solution for that.
[00:32:23] Tom First: Landis? Angel investment. Look, angel investors are critical to the sort of early stages of innovation in our industry. It's also highly risky. So I've done a decent amount of it over the last several years, and I've had a decent record, but somewhat of a mixed record. But thankfully, there are a lot of people that are taking a chance on this industry, and we're in a completely transformative time in the food and beverage industry.
[00:32:53] Ray Latif: All right, I said six, but I got seven.
[00:32:56] Tom First: Keep going. Kids' beverages? Brutal marketplace.
[00:33:01] Jeffrey Klineman: That's Chris Testa. Kids or sports? Which is more brutal? Kids or sports?
[00:33:10] Tom First: Sports beverages. Mike's doing a good job right now with body armor, so never say never. And Seth is doing OK with Honest, though, with kids. Well, yeah. No, he has. He's done well.
[00:33:23] Ray Latif: All right. Unfortunately, that's all the time we have. Tom, this has been tremendous. Really appreciate you coming in and spending some time with us. And hopefully we can have a part two of this sometime in the near future. So really appreciate it. Thanks so much for being with us. Talk to you soon.
