[00:00:10] Ray Latif: Hello, dear friends, and thanks for tuning into Taste Radio, the number one podcast for anyone building a business in food or beverage. I'm Ray Latif, the editor and producer of Taste Radio, and I'm with my co-host for this episode, John Craven, Jacqui Brugliera, and Mike Schneider. In this episode, we revisit five interviews from Taste Radio's Austin Meetup, including Bella Hughes, the co-founder of rapidly growing Better Sour you candy brand, Better Sour, Andrea Hernández, the founder of Trend Savvy Platform Snack Shot, And Michelle Breyer, the CMO of Texas-based startup accelerator, Skew. I challenge you to say any one of those names without smiling. Can't do it. I think I just did. Maybe I grinned.
[00:00:57] John Craven: You were grinning. Yeah, you were grinning. It was a little grin.
[00:00:59] Ray Latif: Yeah, it's exciting stuff. Relatively short interviews, but highly informative and really fun interviews. Now I'm smiling and chuckling when I'm thinking about it.
[00:01:10] John Craven: I know what you're thinking about.
[00:01:10] Ray Latif: I'm thinking about Andrea Hernández.
[00:01:12] John Craven: I knew it.
[00:01:12] Ray Latif: Who actually took a shot. She took a shot at you, John. You remember that? Uh, she took a shot at me. I don't know about that. Well, she said that, like, yeah, I don't want to reveal too, too much, but she's, she tells the news. Actually, she's not really a news reporter, but she tells stories about the industry in a very different way. Why don't we have listeners just decide.
[00:01:31] John Craven: Yeah.
[00:01:31] Ray Latif: If they took a pot shot at John or if they didn't, email us at askatasteradio.com. Okay. Fair enough. Well done. Come on now. I mean, it was, I'm sure in jest, whatever it was, to be honest, don't even remember since that feels like an eternity ago. But she was just making some good points. You'll see in the interview. I mean, she's always on The Eye.
[00:01:49] John Craven: Isn't it fun?
[00:01:50] Ray Latif: It's good. It feels like it was an eternity ago, but it was this month. It was in May, early May. Today's May 31st, the publication date for this episode. And yeah, you know, for a month that kind of flew by, it felt like a longish month. But we're on to June. Bigger and better things, right? Indeed, indeed. What did Bill Belichick say when they had that loss? We're on to Cincinnati. I don't think he's the guy you want to quote right now. No, probably not. No, no. He's, uh... No, quote Amram instead. He's having publicity issues, you would say, Bill Belichick? Publicity issues, yes.
[00:02:22] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah, he's got some PR trouble.
[00:02:23] Ray Latif: Maybe it's good that we have a different coach now, whatever his name is. We? I am not a Patriots fan, my friend.
[00:02:29] John Craven: You're not?
[00:02:30] Ray Latif: No. No, he's a Buffalo Bills fan. I'm a Buffalo Bills fan. Random. Wow. I really just did that. Where'd that come from? It's not random, though. I really just said that because I wanted to sound like you two numpties, so we're always talking about your football teams. Soccer. A.K.A. Arsenal and Manchester United. I know you like to call it soccer, right? But it's not what it is. Football. Always correcting you. Yeah, well, that's a whole nother debate as to why football in this country is called football and football, soccer, football, actual football is called actual football. One makes sense. One really doesn't. What doesn't make sense is that you haven't deleted your club yet. You know, I'm excited for the future. And I'm really excited for next month, as I mentioned, because BevNET Live Summer 2025 in New York City is right around the corner, two weeks away. I've said this before. It is the most pulsating and fun event of The Eye for me. I love the winter event. I really do. But New York City, that vibe, that hustle, that excitement of, you know, mid-year selling beverages, you're in the trenches, you're trying your best to scale your brand, and we're there to help. Everyone who's going to BevNET Live is going there to support each other, help each other build their brands, to find investors, find distributors, find retailers. And it's one of those, I mean, if you're in the area, I just, I gotta tell you, you can't miss the event. Retailers like Whole Foods, AGB, Casey's,
[00:03:56] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah, Casey's we just added. So if you don't know Casey's, Casey's a huge C store chain in the Midwest. We also just add top 10 liquors, which is a growing chain of liquor stores, but they really focus on cannabis. So if you have a cannabis beverage, you Can See with them as well.
[00:04:13] Ray Latif: Absolutely. Yeah. So I'm just going to list them all off once again, including some of the ones that Jackie and Mike mentioned, Stop and Shop, Whole Foods, Circle K, H-E-B, The Goods Smart, Top 10 Liquors, all represented at BevNET Live, all folks that you can talk to, sign up for the one-to-ones and one-to-one meetings, just to be very clear, Jackie, what are they?
[00:04:35] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah. So the one-to-one meetings are kind of like speed dating style, 10 minute meetings that you get to sit down with buyers from these retailers, check in or introduce yourself and set up meetings for the future. These are all organized and they are limited. So if you want to sign up, you have to register and people are already signing up now.
[00:04:55] Ray Latif: But you can sign up Far As many as you want, right?
[00:04:57] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah. You can sign up for all of them if you want.
[00:04:59] Ray Latif: Yeah. If you qualify, go ahead, sign up for all of them. That's what they're there for. Yeah, absolutely. And again, you know, the one-to-ones are scheduled and structured, but you know, the buyers will be roaming the event as well. And so you'll have that opportunity to meet with them, even if you don't get a meeting. The Eye in all of this is to register for the event. You got to go to bevnetlive.com. Signing up is really easy and you'll be really happy that you did. I also want to note that there are opportunities to amplify and highlight what you're doing via At Taste Radio platform. Our on the spot social series is a great way to do that. We're also scheduling interviews via At Taste Radio studio. which is a live video show that happens or is promoted during the lunch breaks and breaks during the event. So, key in all this, register for the show, ask about opportunities that you're not aware of, or if you are aware of those opportunities, sign up ASAP. The one-to-ones are filling up quickly as are slots for At Taste Radio Studio. But no matter what, we want to see you there. John do you offer anything special you're gonna? Offer you know some snacks or beverages or anything to sweeten the pot so it's a drink with Ray Okay, there you go just to clarify if you can just pour your drink. I knew I knew that was coming Yeah, it's gonna be like what do they call those tonight a dunk tank? Yeah, except you don't need the tank well It's gonna be a lot cheaper for you if people are pouring their beverages on you then if you have to buy everyone beverages, right? I still would rather buy Ray. You could have a little funnel that you hold up ready to go. You are a good guy, Ray. I know how you like communal food. Yeah, but please don't pour your drink on Ray because he's going to have probably his blue shirt or one of his amazing blazers and he's going to be dressed all pro. Well, look, I don't know the ins and outs of T&E as well as, say, our CFO does. But if I do get a drink spilled on me, intentionally or otherwise, I am going to try to expense the dry cleaning.
[00:07:03] John Craven: Right.
[00:07:03] Ray Latif: Your dry cleaning will be paid for. Don't worry. Oh, OK. Do you see that? That's called an oral agreement. Between you and Mike. Yeah. Okay. This is where we'll say no.
[00:07:13] Jacqui Brugliera: Mike has to pay for it. I'm happy to pay for your dry cleaning, Ray.
[00:07:16] Ray Latif: Joe, insert that little clip that says that these are the opinions of Mike Schneider and terms and conditions not valid in Hawaii or something. Right. You see, John just saved himself five grand by not having to talk to attorneys after this. I know your Hugo Boss suits are expensive to clean. I got a few dependable cleaner's coupons ready to go, Ray. Coupons? I'm not a coupon kind of guy, sir, but anyway. I'm paying, so I'm going to use my coupons. Anyway. Alright, enough of that. Last week, we were lucky enough to attend an event, John and Ray that is, that was hosted by Naturally New England Naturally New England is part of the Naturally New, which is a community organization that supports upstart CPG brands. And so last week, Naturally New England held their Naturally Rising Pitch Slam competition. If you recall, I hosted the Naturally New Diego edition of that pitch slam. This event was hosted by our very own Melissa Traverse, who is the director of NAMM Bass here at Bethnet. The winner of the pitch competition was a brand called Singing Pastures. which is a regenerative farm and food company based in Maine, founded by ninth generation farmer, John Arbuckle and helmed by his wife, Holly. They're best known for their flagship product, Rome Sticks, which is a pasture raised pork stick snack available in flavors like bacon, pineapple, and jalapeno. It's not the same guy who created Garfield, is it? No. John Arbuckle's character, actually. Oh, he's Garfield's owner. Oh, yeah. How about that? Okay. Yeah. Fun facts from 1974.
[00:08:59] John Craven: All right.
[00:09:00] Ray Latif: When I was one. Yeah, so as part of the competition, we were invited, Taste Radio that is, to sit down with a bunch of attendees and record interviews. And I did just that with six folks that were represented at the show, including Allison Elliott, who's the founder and CEO of Farmer Foodie, which is a brand of cashew-based grated Parmesan. Everyone loves Farmer Foodie. It's good stuff. Yeah. I sat down with Alison, as I mentioned, she was the People's Choice winner, or Farmer Foodie was the People's Choice winner at the event. Also sat down with Swati Alavia, who's the president of Monsoon Kitchens, which is a maker of frozen Indian dishes, amazing stuff. Kelly McShane, the owner of Granny Squibb's Iced Tea. Danielle Adonais, who is the founder of Teton. Teton is a maker of olive oil, single origin olive oil from Spain. That's good stuff. Really good stuff. I had some over the weekend. So fresh, so delicious, and that's actually very much a part of the interview that you'll hear in a future episode. I can't believe how much old olive oil I've been using and consuming. It's the difference between fresh olive oil and what I tried from Thyssen was like night and day.
[00:10:16] John Craven: Olive oil is a real rabbit hole you could go down. Let's just leave it At Taste. We could have a whole podcast series on that.
[00:10:21] Ray Latif: You should because you like wine. So that that's its own rabbit hole as well. And olive oil isn't that far from it. Danielle and I get into it a bit about what makes for a good olive oil and otherwise and the different colors that you might expect to see. I mean, most people expect to see that golden yellowish tinted olive oil that you typically see or find in your grocery store. But.
[00:10:44] John Craven: Something that's green. Green, yeah.
[00:10:45] Ray Latif: Really fresh olive oil could be green. I also sat down with your favorite, one of your favorite cookie brands, one of your favorite cookie brands in the world. Fancy Fancypants Baking Company. I sat down with Maura Duggan, who's the founder and CEO. And as I mentioned before, Holly Arbuckle, who's the CEO of Singing Pastures, sat down with her. So all six interviews coming to future episodes of Taste Radio. Stay tuned for all of them.
[00:11:11] John Craven: Also, I would be remiss if I didn't mention that Mike and John went on a different trip. that you were unfortunately unable to go on.
[00:11:20] Ray Latif: I had to sub in. Yeah, you were really disappointed by the way.
[00:11:23] John Craven: You had to sub in, but we went down to Athletic Brewing's headquarters. I think it was Wednesday night. And where is that? Milford, Connecticut. Milford, Connecticut. Your favorite state in the country, right?
[00:11:36] Ray Latif: Long pause.
[00:11:38] John Craven: Not so much. But man, they are, it's just insane what they've got going on there.
[00:11:45] Ray Latif: The brewery is just fabulous. And the things that they do, it looks just like a brewery, but there's no ethanol. The way that they have to do everything is just a very, very proprietary, let's say, process. And they're, they're super proud of it. And they took us through the brewery and We got to see the boiler. The boiler is huge. It's amazing. Did you accidentally fall into the boiler? No, I didn't get close enough to damage myself on the boiler, but I didn't even know I wanted to see the boiler. So co-founder John Walker was, I think he was trying to stall because there were some people in the lab doing something and he's like, hey, anybody want to see the boiler? And I was like, yeah. And then I didn't know how much I was going to actually like a boiler at a brewery, but it's huge. It's so cool. I think you broke the record for saying boiler at the most. I mean, so then we also got to try the after shift beer, which is a collaboration between Five Chefs and Athletic. And it was just a really great night. Also their Rattler.
[00:12:45] John Craven: That was really good. I guess maybe this will be more newsworthy when it actually starts happening. We got to sample the Runwild IPA on draft, which was really, really excellent. I know they're starting to roll that out, but it sounds like they want to push that more heavily. So excited to, we'll be excited for that step in the evolution for them.
[00:13:10] Ray Latif: And we talked a bunch about their Arsenal partnership, which they said is just getting started. So I had a few, obviously had a few ideas, but it was fun.
[00:13:18] John Craven: It was just like free tickets, free tickets, free tickets.
[00:13:21] Ray Latif: Not what I was saying. I was talking about just the things that make for a good ad and what Arsenal fans really like when it comes to a partnership. Which basically, Mike communicated is just Arsenal logos and. Well, it's, it's players in cool situations in London is basically it. So, you know, have your product around there and athletics, just a great partnership because you know, The Eye's phenomenal, the club's phenomenal. I mean, how can you, how can you go wrong there?
[00:13:48] Jacqui Brugliera: Does Athletic have a big presence in London or are they growing their presence?
[00:13:51] Ray Latif: No, it's growing. Yeah, it's just kind of starting out.
[00:13:55] John Craven: But yeah, I think a lot of opportunity for it.
[00:13:59] Ray Latif: Yeah, I think when we went to London, Lucky Saint was still the dominant. There is a dominant player to be had in NA beer. I think you could say that. Yeah, it definitely is. Yeah. Well, I mean, athletic is doing some amazing things. I was reading on Brewbound.com, which to be clear is part of the BevNets empire, so to speak. And a story last week noted that six of the 10 largest craft brewers in this country shed volume in 2024. Notable Boston beer was down 23%, but athletic, which is part of the top 10, was growing or has grown by 55%. So a lot of interest in non-Alk beer, a lot of interest in Athletic Brewing particular. So I've got this Ascent iced coffee plus protein. So, you know, everybody's talking protein and you see a lot of people on, well, everywhere and just trying to get their one gram of protein per pound a day and having all these high protein diets. So everything has protein in it now. And this is, this one is, I don't know, a little bit dangerous maybe. How so? Well, it's a hundred milligrams of caffeine and 20 grams of protein. So if you try to get your, I don't know, 40 that you might be trying to get out of a shake, you're getting quite a bit of caffeine. And then if you've already, if you're already caffeined up someplace else, there's a good chance you're going to get the jitters.
[00:15:24] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah. It's not that much caffeine.
[00:15:27] Ray Latif: A hundred milligrams is, I think it's a little bit more than a standard cup of coffee, you know?
[00:15:32] John Craven: What kind of coffee you're drinking right okay, okay?
[00:15:35] Ray Latif: Well, I think for most people they're drinking like 80 milligrams of caffeine. I mean 80 milligrams is like a Red Bull 200 it's probably closer to a 16 ounce energy drink so my point here is if you go to 40 if you hit two scoops of this sure and Then you'll be caffeinated, then you'd be pretty well caffeinated, and then if you're already caffeinated. I don't know I just All I'm trying to say is that that amount of caffeine is not far above kind of standard. It's a fair point. It's a fair point. It's just most people aren't trying to just get 20 grams of protein in a shake. They're trying to go for like 35, 40 grams of protein. And so then you're, it just becomes difficult when you have two functional ingredients, if protein's functional, and then you've got your caffeine as well, and you're trying to bring those two things together. So that's just where, when you're trying to do meal planning, it becomes a little,
[00:16:23] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah. And I guess my question with that too, is like, are they leading with the protein or the leading with the caffeine? Cause it seems like caffeine is the lead. If that's the one that I guess you're more limited on in a way.
[00:16:34] Ray Latif: It's a great question, Jackie, because caffeine's a hundred milligram, a little cuppier, but 20 grams of protein is pretty big. It's not like on a muscle emoji or something. I don't know if either is a lead. They're both the lead. 20 grams. Okay. So if you wanted to pick NITS, 20 grams of protein is the lead because it's bigger font.
[00:16:55] Jacqui Brugliera: Got it. Okay. Yeah. Cause usually when I'm going for protein powder, just want protein.
[00:17:00] Ray Latif: You know what I'm talking about though, right? When you get functional ingredients and your protein and you have a, trying to figure this all out. It's too complicated. It's complicated. It also raises the question, how many consumers are there out there that want protein with your coffee or coffee with your protein? Yeah, I mean purists certainly don't, but I think it is an interesting use case because of, you know, just because of convenience and trying to make all these meals that you have to make to get all the protein that you want to get and the fiber, your macros in general, this becomes really convenient. It does. Well, you'll have to try it out this week. I would say drink one a day. Come back next Tuesday and let us know if you are energized and if you've got the gains that you want, because we know you're all about the gains. I'm going to get my gains. I'll see. I'll see how it goes. All right. Well done. Oh, boy. OK, Jackie, got anything over in the San Diego that you want to talk about?
[00:17:55] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah, I have actually a brand that's based in San Diego, and it's not like the sexiest product, but I think it's pretty cool. It's canned tuna.
[00:18:05] Ray Latif: Canned tuna.
[00:18:05] Jacqui Brugliera: Speaking of protein. This is protein. Um, so this is called pull in line. It's a line of very sustainable, responsibly sourced tuna. So on the top of pack, it actually shows you the name of the captain, the name of the boat and where it's from, which I thought was pretty cool. That's like what caught my eye. So this one was from South Africa on the fishing vessel Tyalina and the captain is Sean Schultz.
[00:18:35] Ray Latif: Chill, dude. I love transparency like that. I wonder if it's significantly more expensive, however, than your typical canned tuna. Is it?
[00:18:44] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah, it's a... I think it was like... You're paying for Sean Schultz, man. Right? I think it was like five or six dollars for the can, which is actually on par with other, you know, sustainably caught tuna that I've seen.
[00:18:56] Ray Latif: OK.
[00:18:57] Jacqui Brugliera: But yeah, I'm curious to see how it does.
[00:19:01] Ray Latif: Have you tasted it yet or no?
[00:19:03] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah, At Taste great.
[00:19:04] Ray Latif: So it fits the bill. It's as advertised in that you're expecting to get a premium tuna and you are getting that.
[00:19:10] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah, for sure.
[00:19:11] Ray Latif: Okay.
[00:19:12] Jacqui Brugliera: To your point though, I'm curious if people will pay the extra money for it.
[00:19:15] Ray Latif: Well, you did.
[00:19:16] Jacqui Brugliera: I did.
[00:19:17] Ray Latif: I did.
[00:19:17] Jacqui Brugliera: But I'm also, I don't know. I'm searching for this stuff.
[00:19:21] Ray Latif: True enough. True enough. Alright, it's time to dive into the featured interviews from Taste Radio's recent meetup in Austin, which was hosted at Torchy's Tacos Escarpment Village location. The event brought together a dynamic lineup of industry leaders from Texas and beyond, each offering unique insights into the evolving consumer landscape. Mike Rypka, the visionary founder of Torchy's Tacos, shared his journey from launching a food trailer to building a nationally recognized franchise. Stephen Santangelo of Matriarch Wealth Management discussed how his firm helped CPG founders navigate the complexities of financial planning, particularly during critical growth and exit stages. Bella Hughes, the co-founder From Better Sour, reflected on building a culturally-inspired candy brand and the challenges of innovation in a legacy category. Andrea Hernández, the sharp mind behind Snack Shot, delivered an unfiltered perspective on food and beverage trends, highlighting the importance of authenticity and emotional resonance in brand storytelling. And Michelle Breyer, the CMO of Texas-based accelerator SKU, shed light on how the organization nurtures early-stage consumer brands, emphasizing the pivotal role of founder mindset and market fit in driving long-term success. My name is Ray Latif. I'm the editor and producer of BevNET'At Taste Radio podcast, which is the number one podcast for anyone building a business in food or beverage. Thank you all so much for coming out here. The Austin community is incredible. It's lively. It's exciting. And I'm seeing some of the leaders of the future of this industry right here at Torchy's Tacos Escarpment. And I'm so Lucky Saint our team is so lucky to have such valued partners, including Torchy's Tacos, as well as Matriarch Wealth Management, Sovereign Flavors, Better Sour, SKU, Shauna Golden Key Ingredients. Thank you so much to all our partners. Big round of applause for all of them. They do so much for this community. If you meet anyone from any of those companies, please strike up a conversation. They really are the best in the business at what they do. And of course, everyone knows that when it comes to tacos, the best in the business is Torchy's. And I'm sitting right next to the guy who made it all happen. His name is Mike Rypka, the founder of Torchy's Tacos. Mike, thank you so much for having us.
[00:21:50] John Craven: Thank you, my man. Appreciate it.
[00:21:52] Ray Latif: Yeah. It all started in a food trailer in 2006. What was the original vision and did you ever imagine it being as large as it is today?
[00:22:03] John Craven: Not even close. So we started in a food trailer August 1st, 2006. I think my big hope and dream At Taste point was get off four wheels and get into a brick and mortar. And yeah, it's been a wild ride. I've been obsessed with street food my whole life. I'm a chef by trade, been in restaurants since I was 13 years old. My first job, I was a fry cook at Popeye's Fried Chicken.
[00:22:28] Ray Latif: Shout out Popeye's.
[00:22:30] John Craven: Give a shout out. Anyway, so I did that and My original partner had this old trailer he couldn't sell. This was way before food trucks and stuff were cool and hip. And, you know, I had gone to some banks with some business plans and they'd all laughed at me and said, no way, dude. And so I mortgaged my house, maxed out my credit cards, threw my hat over the big fence and opened up Torchy's.
[00:22:56] Ray Latif: A very good business strategy for anyone listening. Definitely mortgage your house as many times as you can, max out those credit cards, and you too could have a taco empire.
[00:23:05] John Craven: Yes.
[00:23:05] Ray Latif: That's right.
[00:23:06] John Craven: That's right.
[00:23:07] Ray Latif: No, you know what's interesting is you were absolutely right. At the outset, you had a vision, you had a dream, and you were sort of at the outset of this movement for premium, fast, casual restaurants, tacos specifically. What made Torchy's so different? What made it so special?
[00:23:23] John Craven: So for us, it's really about our people, our culture, and then The Goods. We've got Damn Good in our logo, Torchy's Damn Good Tacos. The Damn Good really came from our first customers. That wasn't in our original logo the first month we were open. And we really use that as our guiding light that, hey, if you're gonna say something's damn good, you better freaking deliver it. So we really built early on just this really big culture around food, You know, I've got a book that came out that's called Devils in the Details that hangs up in all our kitchens at every restaurant we have. It's all about the details. Anybody who's in The Goods business knows there's lots of details that go into running a restaurant, making things happen, making sure that your bartender's there, that your drinks are set up, that your Food's in the right place. You got the right food. Your recipes are in order and everything in between. You know, we've just always really had a really big culture around our food and taking care of our guests.
[00:24:26] Ray Latif: You and I were chatting before we hopped on the mics and you were talking about how much care goes into your sauces. You make everything from scratch at all of your locations, which I never thought was possible given the scale that you're at. When you talk about quality, what does that mean to Torchy's?
[00:24:43] John Craven: First off, a lot of pride. We invest in a lot of training and the quality really is really about. Yeah, I have a big chef background. One of my first jobs out of college, I got the privilege to be the executive chef at the World Bank in D.C. And I kind of call that my Ph.D. program. I got to learn. how to cook Indian food, Ethiopian food, Thai food, you know, you name it, we made it. You're serving people from all over the world. And that was really my big crash course on just cuisine in general. You know, I brought a lot of that through my career and into Torchy's and, you know, really making sure that, you know, we're using good quality ingredients and blending the right flavors and textures together so that we've got really craveable food that people kind of go, man, there's something about that. I can't quite make that out, but damn, it's good.
[00:25:36] Ray Latif: Whatever happened to cravability in food? I think it's been forgotten in particular in The Goods and beverage community. I think we're starting to see signs, certainly from all the samples that we have out here. And thank you all to the founders who brought samples because there's some amazing stuff on this table. If you haven't had a chance, please try some. But cravability is really important and passion is really important. You've gone through some personal struggles. You talk about that in your book. You know, what have you learned about leadership and how to overcome some of the more challenging parts of leading a business and entrepreneurship from those struggles?
[00:26:08] John Craven: You know, look, it takes an army. As an entrepreneur, you really got to ask yourself, what are the things I don't know? And be humble enough to get that help from other people. Also as an entrepreneur, right? Sometimes it's hard to give up that control, right? Like what it needs to look like, how it needs At Taste Radio everything in between. But there's also, if you're willing and able to put a little bit of that ego and some of that pride aside and say, hey, you know what? I suck at finances, but you know what? I'm gonna go out and get the best damn finance person I can and bring them in here and let them succeed. And I think that's been, Probably one of my best things that has gotten me to where I am today is really building a strong reliable team that is bought into our culture and given them opportunities that they maybe didn't get somewhere else.
[00:27:05] Ray Latif: Well, I can attest to the amazing team that you have because I've been working with your team for the past two months to put this event together and everyone's been incredible. So shout out to the Torchy's Tacos team. Shout out to Mike Rypka for creating such an incredible business and for being here with us and hosting us here today. Thank you so much, Mike.
[00:27:22] John Craven: You're welcome, my man. Appreciate it. Thank you very much. Yeah.
[00:27:24] Ray Latif: You can leave your microphone there. Thank you so much. And we'll bring up to the stage the one and only Mr. Stephen Santangelo, who is the founder and president of Matriarch Wealth Management. Steven, round of applause for this fine gentleman right here. How are you? Great, man. Great to be here. Good to see you again. I like being in warm places with you. We first sat down in Miami, and now we're here in Austin. And maybe we can be, I don't know, LA next time or something? Yeah, that's why I didn't come to New York. It was pretty chilly when we did this in New York, yeah. But we did talk about, in Miami, we talked about what Matriarch Wealth management is all about, your broader investment philosophy. But for folks who may have missed that, weren't at our Miami show, tell us about what you do. Yeah, so we are a wealth management firm, first and foremost, but we do a lot with consumer products companies. So my uncle's Micropoly, who embedded vitamin water in body armor. So I've kind of grown up around CPG and the brands. And I've actually worked at Glaceau and then Energy Kitchen, which no one here probably knows because it went out of business. But, you know, it's kind of been part of our ethos. And I would say 65 percent of our clients are in the CPG space in some capacity. Well, that's great to hear. And, you know, if you could tell us a bit about the companies in your portfolio. I mean, I think I know them and they're incredible. But why did you choose them? Why did you think they were right for Matriarch Wealth. So aside from the family companies right now, which is Noble and Junkless, we've made investments in KraftMix and Hope. KraftMix was an interesting one during the pandemic. Just kind of a powder that you would throw in at home with your vodka, your tequila. And it sounds pretty basic, but they're doing like six million in sales right now. They're number one on Amazon, QVC. And then Hope Hydration is a way to make free water, kind of generate an ad spend. And they have all these coolers. They've done Ultra, F1, Coachella, and they're actually generating two to three million in revenue by just making a water fountain that has ads on it. And these two brands, they, Hope actually just raised a Series A for 80 million. They're doing pretty well. A series A for $80 million? Yeah, $80 million post valuation. Pretty crazy for a water fountain company. A wise investment, I would say, for Matriarch Wealth. For some of the clients, yes. I mean, we got in kind of early. Yeah. Well, talk a bit about how Matriarch supports CPG founders from the wealth management side of what you do. Yeah, so a lot of you guys might do corporate cash management with like a big bank, like a JP Morgan, a Citibank. We do that as well. We found that the rates are somewhat more competitive through Schwab. And we do lending as well for against your cash if you want to make investments. The real value add, I would say, is pre-transaction. So after you've done a series A or B, we're going to go in with you and kind of look at, hey, what does it mean to you if the company were to sell tomorrow for $50 million? You know, what does this mean for you and your family? We're going to do a lot of the pre-transaction liquidity planning work for you, set up some trust in estates, and really make sure that when you're signing a term sheet in five years for two, three hundred million, you know what it means for you and your family. So it's kind of a multifaceted approach between what we can do for you now and what we're going to hopefully plan for later in the future. Looking ahead, what really excites you most about what Matriarch is doing, specifically in terms of investment and support with founders? Yeah, so I think it's just that we're a boutique wealth management firm, right? We're not JP Morgan, where we have hundreds of thousands of employees, right? We have six employees, and you're going to know all six of us when we work with you. And it's a very customized and personalized approach. You know, we're going to know your family, your kids' names, right? We're going to be in the room, because at the end of the day, we are structuring their trust and their future. So I think that's the most important thing, working with a firm like us, is it's much more personalized, and we're going to be friends, usually, at the end of the day. Usually. Usually. I mean, there's some people that we might rub the wrong way, but it's OK. No, I think that in my interactions with you, Steven, I totally feel that because you're really approachable. You have a ton of experience doing what you do. And I feel like if I were a founder, my first phone call in your business would be to Matriarch. So thank you so much for what you do. And thanks for being so friendly and approachable, because I think your company is what we need these days. No, always. We appreciate it. If anyone wants to reach out, we'll be here the rest of the day. And then you guys can email me at Steven at matriarchwm.com. Thank you so much, Steven. Really appreciate your support, as always. Thank you so much. All right. Let's keep things going with the one and only Bella Hughes, who is the co-founder of a candy brand that might be on your table. It's definitely on this table over here. That candy brand is called Better Sour. And there's Bella right there hugging the one and only Andrea Hernández from the Snack Shot. I said the Snack Shot, but it's really just Snack Shot. Round of applause for Bella. Hello. You and I first met was it awkward on here?
[00:32:24] Mike Schneider: No, you're good Holding the candy because from beverage I used to be in beverage how we first met and you're always sipping your beverage Seth Goldman told me that now that I'm in candy I can't like start You could it might make it difficult to do this conversation though, so Yeah, we first met in I think was it 2014.
[00:32:42] Ray Latif: I
[00:32:43] Mike Schneider: It was, I think, 2016 or 17.
[00:32:48] Ray Latif: 2016 or 17. At the time, you were launching a company called Chaka Tea, a Better Sour you tea brand that you have since exited successfully. Congratulations on that. Thank you. About a year after you exited, you started Better Sour. Talk about your vision for the brand and why candy?
[00:33:03] Mike Schneider: Well, I am really lucky. I'm in business with my lifelong best friend. It is my third time as a CPG founder. I actually had a failed ice cream company first that I usually don't talk about, but this is the most fun yet. And for Samira and I, we're daughters of Middle Eastern immigrants. We were born and raised in Hawaii. And to be really honest, we did not like any of the candy in the market. We grew up totally obsessed with sour. And for us, you know, we really wanted the flavors of our heritage, which is everything from the Asia Pacific, like a guava or a calamansi lime, and then from the Middle East, like a pomegranate or apricot. So really candy for foodies, for adventurous eaters.
[00:33:42] Ray Latif: I've always wondered, what is it like to start a candy brand? Because I've seen those little molds that you can make candy at home, and maybe you started there. But to launch and scale a candy brand, it doesn't necessarily seem as intuitive as just making it at home and selling it from your kitchen.
[00:33:56] Mike Schneider: Well, we definitely tried that, and it was an utter failure. You 100%, if you're going to get into confectionery, need a food scientist. And we wish we had studied food science, not art history, me. And law, her. But we came with the vision. Our candy is really special because it's actually all compound custom flavors. Worked with a CIA, Culinary Institute of America, trained chef and a food scientist to get our gummies.
[00:34:23] Ray Latif: How do you come up with new flavors? And you and I and Samira sat down for an interview for Taste Radio a few months back talking about a really special flavor that you created for a really special movie. But where does inspiration come from? And if you could talk about that latest flavor that I mentioned.
[00:34:37] Mike Schneider: Yeah, so for us, it really goes back to just I think those really evocative personal memories of childhood. We are totally obsessed with food. We are home chefs. Our favorite thing is to back home in Hawaii, we both have small family farms, spending time there. And it's all from memory. So very much nostalgia, but in a form factor that is posting double digit growth and then specific to gummy candy, actually sours are driving 69% of all the growth. So it's really nice when something that's deeply personal and really, really important, like finally at age 38, we can say we love candy actually matches up with like a total white space and a fast growing category.
[00:35:21] Ray Latif: Yeah. And I mean, I love candy probably more than I should. And my dentist loves me for all the candy I eat, but Better Sour is really well known for being a Better Sour you candy brand as well. When I think about who the brand is for, though, it's not necessarily for kids. Kids can eat it for sure. But who is your ideal consumer?
[00:35:38] Mike Schneider: Oh, it's totally, you know, first and foremost for I know it sounds a little cringy saying foodies, but it's for people that love to eat, you know, that like raise your hand if you take an hour and a half to go grocery shopping and you know the restaurant that's going to get the James Beard nomination before it does. because that's who this candy is for. And then I am a mom, Samira's a mom. It is really nice that our kids enjoy it too. I think like probably millennial and Gen Zs, they're over-indexing when it comes to gummy candy consumption. A lot of those folks are having children. So it is very rewarding that the kids like it too. And our special flavor that came out last fall is a passion fruit flavor, to get back to Ray's OG question. And we were lucky enough to collaborate with Disney on Moana 2, which being born and raised in Hawaii and a woman-owned business just had a lot of resonance for us. And it's my daughter's favorite movie. So I was a cool mom.
[00:36:29] Ray Latif: I was going to say, well, tell us all about that collaboration with Disney. We already did that. We already did that interview. So I would highly recommend folks listening, go to Taste Radio, look up Better Sour, and you'll find that interview, which is really revealing and a really awesome opportunity to be behind the scenes on brand collaborations with Disney.
[00:36:51] Mike Schneider: I mean, it went to about 20% more sour this year. So if you're lucky enough to see the little bag without the zipper, because we're reducing our plastic consumption, shameless sales lady here. So I brought a handful of these. They're a little more sour.
[00:37:06] Ray Latif: Outstanding. Can I ask you one more thing?
[00:37:08] Mike Schneider: Sure.
[00:37:08] Ray Latif: We first met at a BevNET Live event in 2016, 2017.
[00:37:13] Mike Schneider: I did not win. I was just a mere finalist.
[00:37:15] Ray Latif: Well, what Belle is talking about is the pitch slam competition that we hold called the New Beverage Showdown.
[00:37:21] Mike Schneider: But good things can happen to you if you don't win. That's what the message is here.
[00:37:24] Ray Latif: And I think the message is go to BevNET Live because you Can See a lot of people there.
[00:37:28] Mike Schneider: And you can become friends with Ray, like almost 10.
[00:37:32] Ray Latif: Exactly. But our BevNET Live event in New York City is coming up June 11th and 12th. It is going to be our biggest New York City event yet. I'm really excited for it. And if you were still running a beverage company, I'd be like, yes. But we have other events coming up too.
[00:37:47] Mike Schneider: We have Nosh as well in December, right?
[00:37:49] Ray Latif: It is coming up. All of our events you Can See on this little banner over here in the corner coming up. If you are in any one of those industries, you should definitely attend one of those events.
[00:37:58] Mike Schneider: I learned about the industry. I'm a former contemporary art curator by reading publications like yours.
[00:38:04] Ray Latif: And coming to events like WebNet Live.
[00:38:06] Mike Schneider: 100%.
[00:38:06] Ray Latif: Do you see how I put those words in your mouth?
[00:38:08] Mike Schneider: You just did it. And now I obviously also read Snack Shot because this did not exist. Andrea, shout out to you when I got started. Now she's hiding her face.
[00:38:15] Ray Latif: She's coming up soon as well. Bella, you're the best.
[00:38:18] Mike Schneider: Thank you so much for everything. It's a friendly industry. Thanks for your partnership. Thanks for bringing all this candy. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Aloha. Bye.
[00:38:23] Ray Latif: Aloha.
[00:38:24] Mike Schneider: Thanks.
[00:38:25] Ray Latif: You can leave the microphone there, because we're going to bring up our next guest. That's Andrea Hernández, who is always busy. She's texting right now, because people are texting her and saying, Andrea, can you try my product? Tell me what I'm doing right. Tell me what I'm doing wrong. The founder of Snack Shot, Andrea Hernández. A round of applause. How are you?
[00:38:44] At Taste: I'm good.
[00:38:45] Ray Latif: Yeah. This is our first time sitting down for a conversation since we were in the frozen tundra of New York City. Speaking of cold places, remember when we were outside in that like hotel lobby or whatever it was?
[00:38:56] At Taste: Yeah, it was really weird. But also, like, I love the hot weather. In my past life, I was probably like an iguana or something.
[00:39:02] Ray Latif: Well, you know, I think I might have been an iguana in my past life as well, because I love it out here. People always ask, you know, what do you like more, the heat or the cold?
[00:39:11] At Taste: Heat. Yes. Hands up. Heat or cold?
[00:39:13] Ray Latif: Yes.
[00:39:14] At Taste: Hell yeah. OK, cool.
[00:39:16] Ray Latif: You see? My people. Andrea basically just took over the interview. That's why she's so awesome. And I love Snackshot. I mean, when Snackshot came out, it was the most original, groundbreaking, differentiated, I don't want to call it a media company, but you know what I'm talking about. How would you describe Snackshot and what it is?
[00:39:32] At Taste: I would say it's, yeah, it is a media publication, but we're also like a cult that worships sexy pantry items and sultry snacks. So you find yourself in those interests, then this newsletter is for you. We're also kind of anti-industry, because I'm not going to lie, and no hate, love John. John, I love you. You know this. John who? John Craven.
[00:39:57] Ray Latif: John Craven, our founder and CEO?
[00:39:58] At Taste: Yeah, but you know, sometimes industry shit is so boring. You kind of want it to be like, what the fuck are you talking about?
[00:40:09] Ray Latif: So that's where I came in. Well, you know, we used to be a family show until just now, but I'm OK. I'm OK. Well done. Oh, Chris. No, it's OK.
[00:40:20] At Taste: Sorry for the kids in the audience.
[00:40:22] Ray Latif: No, but one of the things that's been so amazing about Snack Shot, it's been you've been ahead of the curve on so many levels. You know, trends that started out as really nascent and niche, you saw as having huge potential or at least potential to be broad and generally accepted trends. How do you evaluate things that are new and exciting on the market?
[00:40:42] At Taste: I think the difference between what I do and like most industry publications, like I'd include the consumer. I think that's like one of the biggest things that's like outside of this equation that I'm always so baffled by. It's like, wait, you're not actually talking to the people who are buying this product to talk about it. And I think that's the difference between me and every other publication is that I do have kind of like and able to talk to just regular people. I have a really young audience that I'm always having to come at as a millennial. They're like, bestie. And I'm like, no, guys. I'm in my 30s. But I do think that that's one thing that I want to always bring about. You have to talk to the people. You can't be saying, oh my god, guys, the future is protein, whatever. Let me see your kidney blood work. You're trying to tell me that 50 grams per bar is good. Is it really healthy? And I think kind of being a buffer of bullshit is what's really needed.
[00:41:42] Ray Latif: Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. And the number of food and beverage conglomerates that have asked you to comment on what they're doing, and being able to call out on that BS, I'm not going to say the word, because it's a family show, but call them out on their, their products that may not align with consumer trends, and may are just, you know, made up in some R&D lab, no offense to R&D labs, but like, sometimes they get the product right, and the marketing wrong, or the other way around.
[00:42:09] At Taste: Yeah, stop making products that people don't want, OK? Please. You know what? Hot topic, hot take. Aluminum can tariffs are not high enough, OK? The moment that we have toilet water being promoted, let them be higher. I'm just saying. There's some things that shouldn't be put out there.
[00:42:27] Ray Latif: Okay, do we already have toilet water in cans?
[00:42:29] At Taste: Yeah, there's a brand that's calling flusher thirst. What toilet water? The moment that I start to see the but I'm not making this up. You can Google it.
[00:42:38] Ray Latif: John Craven, you know about this? I have not heard about this yet.
[00:42:41] At Taste: But the moment that you start to see those brands out there, they're just like trying to be a liquid death of sorts. Like, you know what, I agree the tariffs are not high enough.
[00:42:50] Ray Latif: Alright, so you've often talked about vibe shifts. That's your term, vibe shifts. What is something that brands still don't get about building genuine connections with consumers?
[00:42:58] At Taste: Yeah, I think again, it's like when you're trying to build stuff that people don't really need, or trying to force a narrative. So like your brand, you're three years old, you're raising $50 million at a hundred something million dollar valuation for what? So that you can push your narrative on something that's like basically a VC subsidized brand and not necessarily something that has product market fit. I feel like those stuff, A lot of people don't want to bring it about, but I think that especially younger generations can kind of parse through it and be like, well, this is kind of weird. This is kind of odd. Like when a lot of the prebiotic sodas came about, a lot of people were like, oh, is this a PSYOP? Like, why is this all of a sudden everywhere? And I think there's people that can, the new generations of breakthrough can kind of sniff out The BS. There are some stuff like, obviously, the crunchy teens and the maha stuff. That is kind of a vibe shift that I saw coming and I wrote about before even the election was won. And I think that these are things that you just kind of like social signalers. And one of the things that Snapchat does is that I do try to deep dive into the cultural convergences of what helps end up in the grocery aisle.
[00:44:17] Ray Latif: I have like 1,000 more questions, but we only have a little bit of time. I'm going to ask this last one, and we've got to be a little brief here. A brand that you think is quietly doing everything right.
[00:44:26] At Taste: I love Fly By Dings. I love Fly By Dings. I think that, like, another brand, Bakken's, or Badgen's, I'm not sure how you pronounce it. But those brands that are, like, quietly, like, fucking crushing it, and, like, they are trying to make, they took something that was niche, appealed to the mainstreams, went into all the grocer. I remember when I learned about backends going into Ace Hardware. And they were like, oh, we're complementary to barbecue stuff. I was like, well, that's fucking genius. I'm assuming the margins are a lot more better than grocery stores. But stuff like that. I feel like those brands are doing really well, I think, without adding all the fuzziness and the bullshit and like, oh, we're going to give you fucking enlightenment experience with this $7 seltzer like I think those kinds of brands I'm bullish on.
[00:45:19] Ray Latif: Well, I feel like when I introduced you to the stage, we should have had, you know that when Stone Cold Steve Austin comes to the stage and like, it's like a sound of a brick going through a windshield. That's what we should have had you walk up to. Oh, my God. I'm so sorry. No, why are you so sorry? I mean, like you're giving truth, authenticity and I think love. I think honestly, I really do believe.
[00:45:39] At Taste: I care. I care about this industry. I feel like food and beverage is like the cornerstone of the most human experience. And the fact that, you know, we either have to choose in between having either expensive ass, like, yassified pantry shit or, you know, fucking Skittle water. It's conversations to be had.
[00:46:01] Ray Latif: There are conversations to be had and more to come. Obviously, if you haven't met Andrea, you should go Can See her out and talk to her, because she's going to give it to you straight, as she just did. Thank you so much, Andrea.
[00:46:13] John Craven: Thank you.
[00:46:14] Ray Latif: The best Snack Shot. If you're not already reading it, read Snack Shot. Thank you so much. I'll take this. No, you're the best. You don't have to apologize for anything. That's why I invited you. All right, last but certainly not least, this is one of my favorite companies based here in Texas. That's SKU. And the CMO, Michelle Breyer, is going to be our next guest. Thank you so much for being here.
[00:46:37] Austin Meetup: I just told her she'd be a great keynote speaker for us.
[00:46:40] Ray Latif: Yeah. Yeah, I would say so.
[00:46:42] Austin Meetup: And it's really hard to follow her because like, what am I going to say?
[00:46:46] Ray Latif: Well, look, SKU, as I mentioned, is one of the most impactful companies in this area. You've worked with some of the biggest and best known brands to come out of Texas. Let's back up. What is SKU? What's the vision for the company?
[00:47:00] Austin Meetup: To take brands that have a lot of potential that are market validated, but really need the mentorship and the education to take them to the next level. So a company like Siete is a perfect example, because they were about 100,000 in sales. They had a product that was really unique. And they basically needed some mentors who could tell them or help them figure out their positioning. They rebranded during SKU from Must Be Nutty to Siete. But the product was great. and the founders were great. It's just like, how do we, you know, with the right people, hopefully they can get further along quicker.
[00:47:45] Ray Latif: Yeah. And, you know, that's what an accelerator program is. It's accelerating a brand to its next level. You have an application program. Talk about what that entails and how brands go from application to graduation through SKU.
[00:47:57] Austin Meetup: So right now, we're accepting applications for fall. We'll get about 100 to 150. We go through them looking for a couple of things. You know, number one, do they have traction? And it doesn't have to be a lot of traction, but have they already proved their concept? Is the product unique? Is it in a hot category? Do they have a, you know, one of the most important things, do they have a good why? Does the founder have a good reason for why they came up with that product? And the founder is probably the most important thing. Is this somebody who has a passion? Are they dedicated? When you see those founders, you just know it. They are their brand. So right now, we have gotten quite a few good applications. But if you have a brand and you think that SKU could benefit you, please, I encourage you to apply. SKU.IS.
[00:48:52] Ray Latif: SKU.IS. People should write that down if they have pens and pencils. Do people use pencils anymore?
[00:48:58] Austin Meetup: Supposedly they shouldn't. Didn't Trump say that they used too many pencils? What is it, like 50 pencils?
[00:49:06] Ray Latif: On to our next question. So SKU runs two cohorts a year. Now you look for six to eight companies. You talked about the importance of the why. You talked about the importance of the founder. Where do trends fit into your selection process?
[00:49:20] Austin Meetup: They're huge. And sometimes a brand will apply where you didn't even know that was a trend. Like we have one in this current cohort, Paiola. I don't know if anyone's familiar with it. It's an amazing pizza, frozen pizza company, and they have Asian Neapolitan pizza.
[00:49:38] Ray Latif: Wow.
[00:49:39] Austin Meetup: But the product is just really amazing. But it also kind of taps into a trend of like, you know, international flavors for different things that you wouldn't think would necessarily have a different flavor.
[00:49:52] Ray Latif: Yeah. Some of my favorite brands of today have graduated and gone through the SKU program. Wild Wonder.
[00:49:58] Austin Meetup: Oh, yeah.
[00:49:59] Ray Latif: Daily Crunch, Leisure, all these brands are doing quite well. What helped them thrive during their program, during their part of the program, and then after as well?
[00:50:07] Austin Meetup: The founders, all of those founders were incredible. Very, very driven. They were coachable, you know, like they're very, very smart, but willing to listen, willing to kind of suck up all the knowledge that the mentors had, especially in areas that they didn't know about. I think Laurel from Daily Crunch talks about how she got so much help from the e-commerce mentor, and that was a game changer for her. So really being willing to know what you know, know what you don't know. It doesn't mean you have to do what the mentors are suggesting, but hopefully you'll be open to listening. But all very, very smart, creative founders.
[00:50:47] Ray Latif: I got to ask you, you know, you mentioned Ciete and you talked about nurturing that brand. That brand has connected with consumers on so many different levels. And I think the hardest part is understanding who your customer is and speaking to them in a really clear, authentic way. And this is something Andrea was chatting about as well. How do you actually give them what they want? How does Q help people identify the right way to approach your target consumer?
[00:51:15] Austin Meetup: Again, I think it comes down to having amazing mentors who have done this for, whether they've done it for their own companies or they've done it for companies like General Mills or Coke, they can help them really identify. Many times, like we had a company that went through and they were convinced that their market was millennials. And the research said, no, it's actually moms of kids because this is a product that is really you know, that's who's going to be buying it. So, you know, having people who understand how to really look at data and evaluate it and then, you know, be able to use that in a way and be authentic to your brand. I mean, don't try to be someone that you're not. I think Cieta did a really, really good job of like staying true to the spirit of their brand. And then, you know, people flock to them. But, you know, even though what they're a billion dollar company now, they haven't lost that kind of special sauce.
[00:52:15] Ray Latif: Amazing. An amazing brand that went through the SKU Accelerator Program. Siete at $100,000, sold to PepsiCo for a billion dollars. Remarkable success story. And again, it went through, the brand went through SKU. And I can't encourage people enough to reach out And Michelle, talk to her team, SKU.is. One last shout out for BevNET Live, Summer 2025, June 11th and 12th in New York City. It is going to be the event for the beverage industry. If you have any kind of connection to beverages, it is the place to be. I just want to thank, before we sign off, Michelle, everyone for being here today. This has been such an outstanding event. So great to see so many amazing people. Obviously, we went a little over time with the interviews, but please stick around. The wonderful folks at Torchy's said that we can stay here for a little bit later. So please continue to have those conversations, share business cards, meet us at the BevNET team, meet all the folks who helped us put this together. Once again, Torchy's Tacos, Matriarch Wealth Management, Sovereign Flavors, Better Sour, SKU Shauna Golden Key Ingredients. Can't thank our amazing partners enough. Once again, really appreciate everyone being here. Thanks again and we'll talk soon. That brings us to the end of this episode of Taste Radio. Thank you so much for listening. Taste Radio is a production of BevNET.com, Incorporated. Our audio engineer for Taste Radio is Joe Cracci. Our technical director is Joshua Pratt, and our video editor is Ryan Galang. Our social marketing manager is Amanda Smerlinski, and our designer is Amanda Huang. Just a reminder, if you like what you hear on Taste Radio, please share the podcast with friends and colleagues. And of course, we would love it if you could review us on the Apple Podcasts app or your listening platform of choice. Check us out on Instagram. Our handle is bevnettasteradio. As always, for questions, comments, ideas for future podcasts, please send us an email to ask at Taste Radio. On behalf of the entire Taste Radio team, thank you for listening, and we'll talk to you next time. you
