[00:00:03] Ray Latif: It's picture week here at the office. Everyone's doing new headshots. Landis, did you get your new headshot? I did. I got a couple. John Craven, did you? No, mine's perfect. I didn't get a new one either. I'm not going to get a new one. Is that OK?
[00:00:15] Jeffrey Klineman: Well, don't.
[00:00:15] Ray Latif: OK, good. Hey, we're back on the podcast. It's Ray, John, and John. Thanks again for listening. We have some exciting news to give all of our listeners. If you haven't already heard, Crystal Pepsi is back on the market, I think for a limited time. And for those of you who don't know what Crystal Pepsi is, it's a clear cola. Look at that. Good, we didn't spray it everywhere. I guess, when did that actually debut?
[00:00:44] Jeffrey Klineman: I think it was 1990-something, early on. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know. Wasn't it in glass? I'm sure we'll Google it or something after. No, it came in sort of the normal... Like the bottle we're looking at here? No, it did not come in this 20-ounce PET bottle. That had not yet been invented as far as I know. But you guys have not tried this, so I think you should take a sip here and give an on-air reaction.
[00:01:12] Ray Latif: Well, before I'm going to do that, you know, it's funny because Crystal Pepsi was brought back in part by consumers who had been missing it. They hailed its return as something that Pepsi did that was great back once upon a time and is supposed to be great again now. But was it actually great?
[00:01:30] Brad Avery: I mean, was it actually great or was it a flop? It was a flop. It was a flop, but it had a pretty solid following. So it was like a cult following. Yes.
[00:01:38] Jeffrey Klineman: Yeah, I mean, so it came out in 1992, says the internet here. It's amazing what you can do while you're podcasting. It's something that it's just had this sort of cult buzz for probably the past 10 years while all of these kind of retro sodas have been making their way back. bring back Crystal Pepsi. Now the problem is that it didn't work the first time. So why does it work the second time? I think that's something that with a lot of these retro and throwback products, I feel like I often get asked, what do you think of this? And to me, it seems to some extent a little bit of a, I don't know, almost marketing cop out to say, hey, we don't have any really good innovative ideas. Let's put something else that's already been out there and failed back on the market. Now, in the case of Pepsi, they obviously, I mean, they have a host of things that they're trying to create as new at the same time in the craft space. But, you know, it's sort of interesting the timing of this. It seems like this would have had maximum buzz had they done it, I don't know, five or 10 years ago, especially since now, You've got things like the nice 250 calories per bottle right on the side. You also have this, I don't know if I've seen this before. I don't admittedly drink a lot of Pepsi soda products, but on the back it says partially produced with genetic engineering in capital letters.
[00:02:56] Brad Avery: that on all their products now.
[00:02:58] Jeffrey Klineman: Yeah, if they had done that 10 years ago, they wouldn't, right? So I think it's something that almost just undermines the enjoyment of it.
[00:03:06] Ray Latif: Also, considering more people are reading the Nutrition Facts labels, when you look at this bottle and you see the old 69 grams of sugar per bottle, per 20 ounce bottle, to be fair, it's not something that the three of us would drink. In convenience stores and places where they do still sell a lot of soda, it might have some impact.
[00:03:24] Jeffrey Klineman: Well, what's pretty funny too is that if you've never seen this brand before and you just saw this product for what it is right now, it almost sounds like Pepsi launched, I don't know, a sparkling ice competitor, right? It actually isn't a horrible sounding brand or look for that. But one of the problems with clear for soda has always been that it sort of doesn't have that kind of visual appeal to the senses. So for a cola, maybe it's hard to say, geez, you know, the fact that it's got this dark caramel color is appealing to your senses, but to use a different example, companies that have tried it for things that normally have color, for example, orange soda. If you see orange liquid soda, yes, that does have some sensory appeal just based on that. And here you've effectively eliminated it, which makes it seem sort of like some sort of chemistry type thing, which, It basically is.
[00:04:13] Brad Avery: What you're saying reminds me, I think Boylan has like a line of seltzers and sodas and so it is a bit confusing seeing a water looking product with almost 70 grams of sugar in it. You'd almost expect for it to be a seltzer when it's clear like that.
[00:04:28] Ray Latif: The big thing about Crystal Pepsi, or at least this iteration of Crystal Pepsi, seems to be, for me, the label itself. It looks like a throwback label to the mid-late 80s kind of thing. It's got the...
[00:04:40] Jeffrey Klineman: Except it has the new Pepsi logo.
[00:04:42] Ray Latif: It does have the new Pepsi logo, but the sort of lines and, I don't know, the way that the word Crystal Pepsi slightly slanted on the package itself reminds me of a kind of throwback-looking soda. or at least a throwback label. And it's actually something we've seen beer companies do pretty successfully, at least these big domestic beer companies in terms of their light beers, specifically Miller Lite had that iconic can that they brought back a few years ago. Bud Light, I think just did that about this year, at least within the last few months. They've had a lot of success with that. I'm not particularly sure why people are so drawn to that sort of old looking label, but it has been effective.
[00:05:18] Jeffrey Klineman: Look, I mean, this is an iconic American brand. So doing a throwback, to something that has nostalgia, which I think is exactly what it has when they do that, can be pretty effective. I think in this case, it's something that I'm not sure that the early 1990s, which is when this originated, is something that people are really that nostalgic for at this point.
[00:05:39] Ray Latif: You don't like the Arsenio Hall show?
[00:05:41] Jeffrey Klineman: You don't miss that? Geez, I don't know if I got that on my rabbit ear antennas, but also it was kind of black and white TV, but I kind of... Makes me sound really much older than I am.
[00:05:52] Ray Latif: Are you sure this was 1992?
[00:05:54] Jeffrey Klineman: We're going to get into some real hatred deep down emotion about growing up here in a few minutes. I think it's in the case of this, just looking at the original versus this, it is basically the same thing with just the bottle is more tapered than they were. in the early 1990s and that logo is a little different. But again, to your point, I'm not really sure that this has that nostalgia value the way just their original branding does. And I think it's interesting if you look at something like their 1893 effort too, where they're trying to like manufacture this new brand that's kind of classic, you know, even the, I think I saw a commercial for it yesterday. It's got, you know, someone drinking Pepsi out of basically like a beer glass, like a tulip glass or something like that. And it's funny, I mean, all these sort of mainstream soda brands are in a really weird place where it's just like, they're trying to make it okay to drink soda. And I think that's a real like uphill battle, at least when you're talking about sugar-sweetened products. You know, with the Crystal Pepsi, I think that's sort of the same thing that's working against it this second iteration.
[00:06:54] Brad Avery: This product reminds me of a Kevin Smith movie. That's my New Jersey reference of the day. We had a, myself included, a bunch of people who love his early flicks, Clerks, Mallrats. Everyone wants him to make more movies and then they come out and those movies were flops. Almost every movie he's made has not really been a box office success. Everyone's clamoring for him to come back and write something like his first thing. And every time it comes out, everyone's like, yeah, now I remember why I didn't like this in the first place. Whoops. There's your instant review of Crystal Pepsi.
[00:07:25] Jeffrey Klineman: I mean, it doesn't taste horrible though. It definitely does not taste like Pepsi either, which I think is with something like this, again, what I was saying before about there being that sensory aspect of no color for me is certainly part of it on that. And I don't know outside of that, like how close from a whatever formulation flavor perspective they really are. But I don't think it's like a terrible tasting product. No.
[00:07:49] Ray Latif: But to be clear, this is not a Kraft product. And like the 1893 line is very much being presented as a Kraft soda. It's not just the big companies. I mean, Kraft soda itself has had some traction over the last few years, particularly brands like Spindrift or a brand like Joya. These brands are finding ways to get people to drink soda, albeit at more flavorful offerings and less sugar. And there is certainly an opportunity for that. And you know, it's not just Pepsi that's looking at that. Coke. Remember we had talked at BevNET Live to the Venturing and Emerging Brands folks, and craft soda is very much on their radar. In fact, actually, There was some talk about the stubborn soda line that Pepsi came out with. It was a fountain only when it debuted last year. They just put it in bottles recently. And, you know, in an interview with Fortune, one of their top executives, one of Pepsi's top executives said, quote, craft is not a fad. We think it's here to stay. So there is some significant appeal somewhere. I would doubt that a company the size of Pepsi wouldn't have done their homework to find out that there is a market for this kind of stuff. But I could be wrong.
[00:08:54] Jeffrey Klineman: Yeah, I think the challenge that exists for them and it's one that pretty much any large CPG company has when embracing something that's a little more bleeding edge. And I don't even know if I'd call craft soda bleeding edge, but it's more bleeding edge than Pepsi's kind of core portfolio. The challenge with it is just that what they need in terms of a brand to be viable and successful is something that makes it really hard to incubate a brand like that. So, there have been, gonna think of one off the top of my head, let's take Red Bull's Energy Shot, because I remember that one. You know, they grew that to somewhere, you know, I don't remember what it was, but it was bigger than basically any kind of independent energy shot at the time, outside of, I think, 5-Hour and the Stacker product, and it was just too small for them. And, you know, they basically blew away sales volume that was bigger than probably, you know, 30 other companies that they competed with combined. And I think in the case of something like this, Coke and Pepsi obviously have tremendous ability to get retail placement and basically make whatever product they want sort of appear on store shelves almost overnight. That will generate sales, but will it be enough for it to be something that they want to continue with? The thing that always stands out for me is, you know, what Coke's VEB unit says where they're searching for the next billion dollar idea. And that really is it. I mean, if it's not a brand that's going to have a billion dollar potential, then I think they're just going to stop doing it. I think that's something that's a problem for craft soda, because that category just isn't big enough for that right now.
[00:10:29] Brad Avery: Maybe that's the plan with this product, though. I mean, it doesn't look like it took a lot of resources for them to create it. It's in the same bottle that we've seen. The label is a redo of the original one. they had the formula, like they can just pop this into their system and sell a bunch of it on a nostalgia kick for a couple months and make some money and then it's gone.
[00:10:50] Jeffrey Klineman: It's just an opportunistic move where I probably will. Well, I'm not going to buy one since we have it in the office here, but I probably would have bought one bottle just to see how it tastes. And are they all of a sudden going to convert buyers into purchasing Crystal Pepsi? Well, hey, you know, even if they do, it's probably a cannibalistic sale of, you know, I was going to buy a bottle of some other Pepsi product and I'm now buying this. what it's not going to do, and there's just zero chance that it's going to do this, is take buyers and convert them into, you know, soda drinkers. Like at best, I think it's maybe it would cannibalize a Coke brand instead of a Pepsi brand. And that's the challenge for stuff like this. We've seen it in other brands that they've revived over the years or new flavor iterations that they came out with. I always sort of point to When they were going through the phase of every year or six months, they had a new flavor of Pepsi, you know, lemon, vanilla, lime, all those things. I mean, they were just, again, pretty similar to this where you might trial it, you might buy it again, but it's still just the same customer spending a little differently.
[00:11:51] Ray Latif: So in the end, the retro move seems like an opportunistic move for a lot of these brands, just to generate some buzz. But in the end, big money, making opportunities, not necessarily the goal or the expected outcome. We saw another recent re-release in Surge, that sort of Mountain Dew type product that Coke had released a while ago and brought back, I think it was last year. Don't necessarily know how it was doing, but when they first debuted it, I think it was only available on Amazon. And they saw some success, I guess, with sales on Amazon and have since released it further than that.
[00:12:20] Jeffrey Klineman: Well, they had a vocal minority that I think was literally saving their money to buy all the Surge they could when it came out. And I thought that re-release was pretty neat in that it was, you know, it had this sort of internet campaign. I was going to call it a big internet campaign, but it really wasn't that big. Again, it was sort of a vocal minority that did a great job of getting gamers and hackers. whatever it was. I mean, there was that website that I'm forgetting the the URL of that was like SaveSurge or something like that. And they successfully granted it took a long time, but they got it back on the market. And you can't fault them for taking advantage of this potential for buzz. I mean, it had some PR impact. I think what would be great is if you saw the PR impact of Crystal Pepsi, the PR impact of that, making it such that Pepsi has an opportunity to, you know, create a dialogue about what else they're doing because that seems like the best thing they can gain out of it.
[00:13:14] Brad Avery: So to be clear, it was a bunch of fans, like underground fans that started a campaign to bring back Surge and then Coke heard them and did it? Pretty much. Pretty much. The story that I'm thinking of that it reminded me of for whatever reason was Moxie. It was kind of fans as well with Moxie. There was like a really, really hardcore group of people that Loved it and then there was a marketing agency that found it and captured it and kind of brought back a strong Presence of it and I still see it on shelves now.
[00:13:43] Jeffrey Klineman: Well, that stuff's been around as a regional brand here and there I mean, it's one of those weird. I think it's one of the most like vile carbonated drinks out there. I that's made in the US at least. I know there's plenty of other weird things out there in the world, but it's sort of interesting in that when you look at the CSD space, the big brands, a lot of the ideas are just ultimately like things that have been out there before. minor tweaks, you know, there hasn't been some like really game-changing thing in that space outside of perhaps diet and stuff like sparkling ice, you know, that is kind of a CSD but looks different and tastes different.
[00:14:19] Brad Avery: The other one that we recently saw was coinciding with the Ghostbusters movie where Hi-C brought back their Ecto Cooler. And I mean, I see that as very similar to this Crystal Pepsi, where a lot of people will likely pick it up because, oh man, I haven't had this since I was a little kid, and maybe buy a package or whatever. And then I don't know how often they're going to continue to drink it. It seems like a very opportunistic thing. With the movie coming out, there's already going to be a bunch of marketing happening for that. We can piggyback on that. Minor updates to packaging. We already have the formula. Plug it in, get it on shelves.
[00:14:55] Jeffrey Klineman: And then there are those weird brands that have been through many different hands. Clearly Canadian, maybe one New York seltzer, which is now being launched again. I think that's, at least in my time in the beverage industry, I swear that's probably close to the 10th time that it's been relaunched. And as a disclaimer on that one, that's like a nostalgic brand for me having, you know, grown up in the New York area. That was Soda disguised as Seltzer.
[00:15:20] Brad Avery: I also love that stuff, uh, New Jersey. There's another one though. Sobe is bringing back their old flavors and they're going to be sending us some of those, but I remember also riding my bike around. pre-licensed drinking that pina colada stuff and all that, you know, and I think that they're bringing back a big campaign for that stuff. So do you think that there's like a market effect that gets sent around when someone brings surge back and then Crystal Pepsi and then other companies and other divisions start seeing opportunities to flood the market with nostalgia products? Cause it's seeming like that's what's happening right now.
[00:15:52] Jeffrey Klineman: I mean, it's been happening for a while, I think, but the real question with it, again, is just what actual impact does it have? The ability to generate buzz and the ability to actually capitalize on that in some meaningful way or sort of an elusive thing to connect. I mean, I always said that when there were the Jones soda, like turkey and gravy soda, and, you know, it got kind of ridiculous to the point where they had one called sweat, which is... Still, I think I'd rather drink some sort of cleaner or whatever.
[00:16:23] Ray Latif: Sweat soda. Yeah, sweat soda.
[00:16:26] Jeffrey Klineman: And it had a picture of some, I don't remember what player, it was like a Seattle Seahawks player of, I don't know, it must've been 2007 or 8, something like that. It's hard when you're creating a lot of buzz and not getting anything for it to, I guess, know what to do.
[00:16:40] Brad Avery: What do you think is next? Are we going to see a big influx of Jolt Cola or Snapple going to bring back their elements?
[00:16:47] Jeffrey Klineman: I would love to see Jolt Cola. We're going to bring back Saccharin.
[00:16:51] Ray Latif: Saccharin. CJ Rapp, if you're listening, I'm a big fan of Jolt Cola. You need to bring that back. ASAP. I know you're busy with some other project at this point, Karma, which is your company at this point, but please, please bring back Jola Cola.
[00:17:03] Jeffrey Klineman: What was it? Twice the caffeine and all the sugar? Twice the caffeine. I was going to say twice the sugar and twice the caffeine, which would be amazing, by the way.
[00:17:09] Ray Latif: I had that I think when I was about 10 or 11 years old. Never give your kids that kind of stuff when they're 10 or 11 years old. Parental advice. They won't sleep for You guys know that.
[00:17:19] Brad Avery: We mentioned Balls in the last podcast, and it's funny because they're a brand that didn't really go anywhere. They've been around consistently, but it is the type of product that still elicits that kind of nostalgia purchase occasion by just kind of staying under the radar, staying with these really niche kind of gaming communities and not being widely available in retail for the most part. you pop in a store and you see it. And I remember, you know, my LAN parties.
[00:17:47] Jeffrey Klineman: And so, you know, LAN parties and you riding a bike drinking pina colada soju. This is one that I can handle.
[00:17:53] Ray Latif: I'm not going to lie. I like how you mentioned before I had a license when I was driving my bike around, because you still ride a bike around.
[00:17:59] Brad Avery: I do.
[00:17:59] Ray Latif: Yeah. That's good. All right, let's get to some folks' favorite part of the show. It's kind of our favorite part of the show, so maybe it's what we're drinking. Right about meow. Besides Crystal Pepsi. Besides Crystal Pepsi. Yeah, we should put a little lid on that and close that out.
[00:18:13] Jeffrey Klineman: Stop drinking that.
[00:18:13] Ray Latif: Yeah. All right, I'm going to start. There's three things in front of you right now. One is a Monfifo ginger shot, the winner of the most recent New Beverage Showdown competition. Well done, guys. This is a potent Libation, it's cold pressed juice. It's organic ginger and lemon juice made with organic honey. 1.7 ounce shot. It will wake you up for sure. It's great stuff. If you see it, buy it. Metabrew. Metabrew is also a new brand out of Brooklyn, I believe. It's bulletproof type coffee drink. This one has no dairy though. So it's made with coffee, MCT oil, cashew and cacao, soy-free, dairy-free, 120 calories. per 11.5 ounce bottle. We tried it at the Summer Fancy Food Show. It was great. Have yet to open a new bottle.
[00:18:58] Jeffrey Klineman: Very tasty.
[00:18:59] Ray Latif: And there's Costin Press. Costin Press, which just made their domestic debut. It's an English brand, and they came to the U.S. in the last few months. I'm holding their ginger beer. Looks pretty good. 25 grams of sugar, which is not bad for a ginger beer. 110 calories. Good-looking label. Speaking of a little retro throwback, it's got a little bit of that on it. And yeah, good stuff.
[00:19:20] Jeffrey Klineman: Well, I guess I'll go next year. Sure. Thanks, Ray. I am not drinking nearly as many beverages as Ray is. I just have this Greater Than, which we just got with the new Tetra Pak. These guys have been at it since 2009 or 10, I think. And I think it's great just to see the Cider Brothers are great guys, first and foremost. Real hardworking hustler types, which I think is what you need to make it in this business.
[00:19:46] Ray Latif: Especially if you're selling a sports drink.
[00:19:47] Jeffrey Klineman: Tough, tough category. And you know, it's been certainly a ride for them to innovate and figure out kind of how to package their product. And this seems like something I, of all their products that, or versions I've seen, this definitely seems like the best one so far. It's an 11.2 ounce Tetra Pak with a nice little twist cap there. Tastes good. I feel like this is like the right size for it too. Smaller, but. Monkfruit's a good move too. Yeah. The monkfruit, I mean, did a great job with it.
[00:20:15] Brad Avery: Yeah, looks good. I, for the first time while John was talking, just tried the new Soylent Coffeeist.
[00:20:22] Jeffrey Klineman: I'm going to get some of this too here.
[00:20:23] Brad Avery: So Soylent is essentially a full meal replacement. They say that they have all of the nutrients and vitamins and everything that your body needs to run and it's all just the kitchen sink in one bottle and then you never have to eat.
[00:20:37] Jeffrey Klineman: Rages, croaks, he croaks.
[00:20:40] Brad Avery: So you replace food with this beverage. It's high calorie, lots of carbs, and they have two products. They have the powder and then they have the ready to drink regular Soylent, which both to me tastes like a cardboard-ish type flavor. I was gonna say paste. Paste, yeah. Well, it's a very thick consistency. This is interesting. It reminds me of the milk leftover in your cereal. If you had like a coffee flavored cereal, this would be like this after a LAN party.
[00:21:08] Jeffrey Klineman: Perfect.
[00:21:09] Brad Avery: It's really pasty though.
[00:21:12] Jeffrey Klineman: Honestly, I mean, it's good that this is like audio and not video because I did a little like sort of cringe as I was about to take the first sip because I feel like the original Soylent, the powder, and they made it better, but that was rough, you know?
[00:21:24] Brad Avery: No, they've definitely improved.
[00:21:26] Jeffrey Klineman: And this definitely, it's a big step up for it. I mean, I would, I'm like ashamed to be drinking this with the sheer amount of cold brew coffee that's in our office right now, but this actually isn't terrible. I feel like the coffee makes it more tolerable for sure.
[00:21:38] Brad Avery: The flavor is definitely better. The thing that I cannot get around on this product is the texture and the mouthfeel. It leaves a gluey like. Very much so. You know, essence in your mouth. You know, it's to me like that's a really, really unpleasant feeling. I'm not very happy right now. I'm going to take a swig of greater than to clear it up.
[00:21:56] Ray Latif: I'm going to cleanse my palate with some Monfifo right here.
[00:21:58] Brad Avery: Yeah, there you go.
[00:21:59] Ray Latif: Good work guys. Well done. All right. That's the end of this podcast. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time. Adios.
