[00:00:03] Ray Lentiv: Hey, I'm Ray Lentiv with BevNET. I'm here with John Kramer. This is the BevNET podcast. We're at the home of Darren Rovell, ESPN Sports Business Reporter, Twitter titan, and friend of BevNET. Thanks so much for having us here.
[00:00:14] John Kramer: Thanks for having me. I'm glad to have you over. As you guys know, I think about beverages. Not as much as you guys do, but a large part of my day, I think about beverages.
[00:00:27] Ray Lentiv: Why are you so interested in beverages? I don't know.
[00:00:30] John Kramer: I don't know. I think that, you know, to start, obviously I wrote a book How Gatorade. And when I think about, you know, somehow I'm stuck being a nostalgic person. I think about, you know, being, doing cross country and that glass bottle that I would buy every day. And when I think about businesses that I feel I understand that for some reason food and beverage are there and tech and other things are not. So I like to, you know, I mean, literally when I get my BivNet magazine, I like sit down with it. I mean, you guys do great work.
[00:01:07] Ray Latif: So I appreciate that.
[00:01:09] John Kramer: Yeah. There's a lot of, there's a lot of things going on and, and I like to, you know, when I like to say what I feel, you know, that, Coconut water is not.
[00:01:21] Ray Latif: I won't give you crap about that again.
[00:01:22] John Kramer: Right. Well, so you did, but we had a good, we had a good back and forth on that. And I, you know, I think I was half right, half right, half wrong. I think I was, I think it was probably bigger than I thought it was going to be. but I also think I was right in that it clearly stopped and became an ingredient in instead of a, you know, something that... full coconut water. And, you know, I think one of the problems is it just was one of the one things in the beverage industry that if one company did something and said they were coconut water and had a bad entry, you try that and you will never, ever, ever... get into that category again. There's very few things like that. You try a sports drink, you say, yeah, I'll give that another shot, but certainly not with the coconut water, Phil.
[00:02:12] Ray Latif: Well, it's something I guess with, you know, even coconut water, the fun of this industry is that the things that you sometimes think are the most crazy outlandish, terrible ideas end up actually being the good ones.
[00:02:25] John Kramer: And coconut for, by the way, coconut water is not something where you go, Oh my God, that's crazy. Especially now in the past, People did, at a certain point, think it was crazy. But I think it was natural. Even pickle juice, okay, is that crazy? No, people had done it like, okay, now get me into aloe water, birch water. Now we're getting a little bit like, okay, maple water, had not heard about that one. I think we've gotten a little bit more outlandish in the last couple of years, which I guess then when looking back in retrospect, maybe we change how we really thought about coconut water.
[00:03:04] Ray Lentiv: Well, let's back up for a second because, you know, you did write the book How Gatorade and, you know, that kind of puts you on the radar for a lot of people in the beverage industry. And as you're in your profession as a sports business reporter, How did you kind of go about investigating the history How Gatorade, why it worked and why it continues to work on the market?
[00:03:25] John Kramer: Yeah, I mean the thing that got me first was that I had heard that Robert Cade, one of How Gatorade founders, the main scientist was dying essentially. And I got that tip and he wasn't doing well. And I literally took two weeks off right away and flew down to Florida and said, let me just gather stuff from him. And it was kind of weird, he wasn't like, you know, going to die imminently, but there were days where he had good days and bad days, I'd come in and he wouldn't remember anything. So it was really fulfilling. And then you realize the story is complex from a story standpoint with the lawsuit in Florida and whatever. And for me, it was, you know, the things to investigate were all the great stuff, the nostalgic, you know, the Michael Jordan and the partnerships in there, but also on the side of the marketing in that, you know, they've bought out relationships and no one can come close and they've basically marketed out the competition, which was smart and makes it harder to have a, for the barrier of entry, it raises the barrier of entry in sports drinks. And certainly what worked was kind of the aspirational quality of, you know, you have How Gatorade, it makes you better. How sports endorsements work. What's interesting is that, the taste has definitely changed. And, you know, when I, when I was running, like as a kid, you know, as a 10, 11, 12 year old, there was a taste that was not perfect about it. And that made it better to me in that, like, that was like the, that's what I had to grind through. and now it seems like it's, you know, and I haven't compared sugar to sugar, but it seems like it's a perfect beverage, so the kids today don't get that. So that's what's worked, they've marketed well, but now even though they're pretty much stuck in between the... 78% and 82%, which is just unbelievable in terms of share of the market. You know, there's certain things that I've hated and as someone who's, you know, written the book, I've criticized. You know, the science is getting challenged more than ever before. You know, the sugar is getting challenged. They've had, what was that ingredient that... causes a fire or whatever. So, you know, they've had ingredients in there, their one, two, three system was horrible because they didn't realize or they didn't take into account that... And this is a message for the overall beverage industry. I don't know how much you guys have talked about this, but I'm sure at your conferences and when you're writing stuff, you've talked about it. you know, you're only as good as the person who stocks the shelves. And if that person is not, doesn't know, you know, how to do it or what your plan is. I mean, from day one, the twos were mixed with the threes were mixed with the ones, you know, they weren't like compartmentalized. It's like the guy just tried to throw it on the shelf. And, and, and it's like that single handedly ruined everything. Like it didn't, There was no explainer at the... you know, in the commercial they couldn't explain enough and in the store they didn't try to explain anything. And so no one knew what 1 and 3 was and I'm not sure if they care. So then, okay, regular... so now let's talk about how complex this is. Regular Gatorade is O2. Okay, regular Gatorade is... we switched How Gatorade to G. Regular Gatorade is O2. I mean, how complex can we make this? And I think they've kind of toyed with niche products, niches work, Under Armour's proven that, back and forth. And I don't know if it's big business for them. I think the bars are to devote as much time as they have in getting back into the bars is extremely dumb because you're just it's such a mature marketplace that you're angling for 1% of the market and there's it's not it's just a branded thing and doesn't I'm surprised that they've. kind of gone back into that space. And then, you know, and then the last thing for me is the idea, and they've put this out there recently in the past couple years, which is definitely Indra Nooyi and her, how she feels about it. 4 or 5 years ago I was at Pepsi and she said to me, I don't want anyone to be able to drink Gatorade at any time. I'm like, what are you talking about? She said, well, I want the aspirational quality. I want you to be able to earn How Gatorade. And if I'm a shareholder, I don't care. Sell that damn thing. If people are eating it with their pizza, I don't think that's a problem. If people are using it as a hangover cure, just don't advertise it, but don't put out advertising to discourage it. And now they're doing all these things like JJ Watt tackling people who didn't sweat and why are you? Why are you doing ads to say this is when you should not be buying our product? Who does that? So that's been a little bit weird for me and I don't know where they're going there. I understand the idea of what they're trying to do. You need to earn How Gatorade. To overtly call it out like they're doing it, I don't really think that makes tons of sense.
[00:08:57] Ray Lentiv: Well, we could have just done a podcast How Gatorade. I think we might have to come back and do that because you know the book and you know the history, you know the story up till today about Gatorade. And it's interesting about Indra Nooyi, who is the CEO and chairman of PepsiCo, telling you that. That's kind of interesting.
[00:09:13] John Kramer: And quickly, I would say the barrier of entry has always been How Gatorade. You know, they knock you out from a marketing standpoint. They buy all the relationships and so you can't really earn things. You can't really build yourself up. But now there's been some new—I think Mike Rapoli, who obviously was the co-founder of Vitamin Water that sold to Coke for $4.1 billion, him getting into the body armor in that space and having Kobe and the power—he understands the beverage industry. That's a pretty nice challenge, although I think their business is probably like a 75 million right now compared to How Gatorade 4 billion, but still the fact that they're moving along. I think that the barrier of entry has always been knocked out How Gatorade, but I think now you're having, if you attack them and you use common sense, and it seems like at the same time what Indra said, they're not really willing to do a product with a full mass product with protein, I feel, and call out to it because protein doesn't taste as good and they're a little worried about that. And they've forever been worried about that. So, I think there's little pockets to get in, but it's hard. Like the activate where you activate the minerals and see them going down.
[00:10:37] Ray Lentiv: I mean, that didn't really work. Well, I mean, the whole point was to create a better for you kind of sports drink with some of these brands. you know, that's body armor they're hanging their hat on. This is a better for you sports strength. This is an improved formulation based, you know, against whatever has been presented before, you How Gatorade just came out with their organic variety recently too.
[00:10:55] John Kramer: I mean, which I think is, I think it's weird. I don't think that's what the marketplace wants. I think there's a fake organic, it's like, How many categories do I really care about organic? And Gatorade and Cheetos and whatever, those are not... that's not what I care about. I care about apples or chicken or salmon or, you know, I don't really feel like, you know, if I'm going to have How Gatorade that's organic. Why did they spend so much time on organic? What do people care about? They care about sugar. So yes, there's some reduced sugar, but you know, there's a lot of... you know, sugar is a big focus and it's like where is the... and you can only say for so long, well, you need that sugar to... you know, I think they've been more challenged to say, well, do you really need... does the kid really need 40 ounces How Gatorade, you know, to be able to play an hour of soccer?
[00:11:46] Ray Latif: Well, I guess the one thing, you know, just as you talk through that, that I kind of wonder about is, you know, it seems like Gatorade is just going to be ingrained in like the locker room and sidelines, whatever, at a professional sports level. And that probably is something that is almost impossible to for an incumbent to come in and challenge.
[00:12:04] John Kramer: But they've also bought the grassroots, too.
[00:12:06] Ray Latif: And that's it, I guess, is, you know, for the brands that have tried to do the grassroots, either because they have money like a body armor or don't, are there other things that, you know, you, someone that's in that kind of, you know, trade, like, are there products or types of products that you're seeing out there?
[00:12:25] John Kramer: So the true mass moment becomes, you know, these guys are now making so much money on the field, on the court, on the ice, whatever. And a drink endorsement is only worth, you know, a hundred to $400,000, right? is there gonna be a guy that insists that, you know, I don't care what deal you do with me, I've been drinking this since I was 10 and I'm using this damn thing and I'll do a very small deal with you. I mean, I think that's really where, you know, like you have small examples like, and this is not, this is like Mike Trout, you know, rookie coming up. He doesn't need to do a nickel-dime deal with like super pretzel, but that's something that's actually something that he liked and growing up he liked it and he puts himself on the box and is it a little hokey? Yes, but he he likes that that's kind of like a dream as a kid like he's on the super pretzel box like that's kind of cool the greatest one of the greatest grassroots efforts in sports when I think about it is Babalot and the rackets and the way that they got in. And you know, you could say that the incumbents like Prince and Yonex or whoever, they were not kind of in that grassroots game and they put rackets into hands of Rafael Nadal and Andy Roddick when they were 10 and 11. And You know, then these guys, when they're signing deals, yes, they're in the space, they're competitive with the deal. But when they're doing the deals, if it's close enough, that's the racket they want to use. So you wonder, I mean, we've had a long time of challengers. You wonder if there's going to be a big athlete who will say, you know, I've grown up on this. You know, we've seen equity pieces. Sure. I don't care how I truly believe in this. So I'm not going to be a free agent here. And who gets the big endorsement? And how does that how does that go? But I don't know what that I don't know what that brand is.
[00:14:19] Ray Latif: Well, I guess it would have to be something that functionally performs better How Gatorade or whatever, right?
[00:14:26] John Kramer: Right. And I think I think it's okay if it doesn't, if it doesn't taste great. You know, like, I don't think muscle milk tastes great. You know, I think people get used to that taste and they've done pretty well, even though it's like grape nuts in the milk in it. No grape, no nuts. What is the deal?
[00:14:51] Ray Lentiv: Well done. So you talked about equity partnerships, certain equity pieces of companies and brands that some of these athletes are getting. And you mentioned Muscle Milk, Steph Curry, obviously, that they've got a really big endorsement deal with him. But for some of the smaller brands that we've seen coming out, launching in the last five years or so, you're seeing deals done with brands that some people have never heard of, such as Aurora. Aurora is known in some parts of the country and Odell Beckham is an endorser of that brand.
[00:15:18] John Kramer: And by the way, I've kind of watched them and it's like, sometimes I think you should I know Roar, but I really don't know what they stand for other than Odell Beckham. Sometimes I think companies just say they spend so much time getting who the celebrity is and, you know, what is their, I need to know their message. There's fewer people who will buy it because of Odell Beckham versus who will buy it based on why it's a unique proposition. And I think sometimes you go after the athlete so quickly, we need them, that it obscures the whole idea that the consumer needs to know why they're buying you.
[00:16:00] Ray Lentiv: But doesn't it, I mean, isn't the point to sort of align the athlete and what he or she represents with the brand and say, okay, if you drink this, you are aligned with the cult?
[00:16:09] John Kramer: Yeah, but I think, I think celebrities now mean less than people who are just power users, and we've seen with social. I mean, I think, you know, you've seen smart brands align with people who have huge Instagram followings, which is okay. Now since I said that, I realize I'm sure you guys have done something on this, but like, uh, the T brands that are hooking up with hot models, like in like by their butt, they have like the T. Yeah. And I don't know if they've, I, You know, I've stumbled on that. Have you stumbled on that? I have, yes. And it's, who's the one, the one that the first time I saw this was, I think your name is Desi Mitchison, and she is a Tecate girl. So I met her at just met her at the Mayweather Pacquiao fight and then followed her on Instagram and saw this like whatever, maybe it didn't work because I can't tell you what tea brand it is, but like I do think there is something to be said for social stars, influencers, because there is skepticism and there's always been some skepticism as, well, you bought this guy, you bought this athlete, this isn't real, real. Now you could buy that person, but I think true influencers who are good can be better at conveying the message and the brand proposition than athletes.
[00:17:40] Ray Lentiv: Now, you're a true influencer. I just wanna segue. I'm sorry. No, no, go for it. Just wanted to segue, because you have a vast social media presence. How many Twitter followers do you have at this point? 1.5 million. 1.5 million, wow. How effective is it for some of these brands and their endorsers? What's been the most effective way to kind of communicate to consumers that relationship?
[00:18:03] John Kramer: Content, it's all content marketing. And by the way, one of the things I will always leave money on the table, I will never be that influencer. I will never sell a tweet. Maybe at some point there would be some sort of content thing, but it would be fully disclosed. Just for my credibility, I could never do that. But content marketing is the key. you have to do something cool or different to make it go viral. Just saying, check out, you know, this beverage just does not does not work.
[00:18:39] Ray Lentiv: What's been a good example that you've seen of a beverage company that's that's done some really good content marketing just in a single tweet or Instagram post?
[00:18:46] John Kramer: Yeah, I mean, obviously, like, As you know, because I was at the BedNet conference, but like Red Bull and Heineken, those guys do stuff that are... Red Bull, Heineken, what was the... Oh, when Molson did the European fridge, if you guys haven't seen it. Is that Molson? Is that him? Just type in red red Canadian fridge into YouTube and it's gotta be it's a great. It's a great great job done by them which is basically like we're proud of being Canadian and they go they drop fridges in random places and and in Europe, and the only way to open up the fridge is with your Canadian passport. So when you come, you open up the fridge, and everyone's happy you're from Canada, which is a great idea. You could tell the ad firm said, okay, how do we reward people who are from Canada? Well, not only that you get a free beer, but you've just gotten a free beer for everyone around you. Thank God you're from Canada. Very smart. Heineken's done really cool European soccer campaigns where not only do people win, but they win like a prize to go and they film and film it. If you ever give away anything, if you're in the beverage business and you ever give away anything, just film everything. And you're better off if you have people in your ad firms who have TV experience, who know how something is gonna go. Like I've been telling sports teams, and companies that align with sports teams that go buy, if you're the official beverage of the Chicago Bears, go buy at an auction a Walter Payton jersey for $3,500 and do a whole content thing around it. how you win it you win it by showing you know some sort of contest that you then get content like the Super Bowl Doritos ads and then and you know relatively that's cheap and it's something that someone really wants you know and I've I've had a whole thing with teams and like if you're if you're a and you know Budweiser's done some cool stuff like fan of the game type stuff access and then filming that access. So I think it's just all a content play.
[00:20:56] Ray Latif: I guess staying away from the hey buy our stuff type social media that you see out there, right?
[00:21:01] John Kramer: Yeah, it just doesn't, it just doesn't work. Now, do the cans work? It looks like the can, you know, And people always bash Bud for this, but do team affiliations on labeling work? You know, it seems like from results of the America can, from results of the cans last year, this year, especially NFL, you know, that they do get a legit, you know, like 1% bump, which is obviously amazing in the beer space. So associating with the teams and the, you know, I think that does, that does, that has shown to work.
[00:21:37] Ray Lentiv: You mentioned that you are advising sports teams on, you know, some marketing.
[00:21:43] John Kramer: So I'll go, so I'll do like. I'll do like one-off talks for sponsors to, you know, for teams to give value to their sponsors. And, you know, my messages are usually, you know, if you're going to have a partnership, really have a partnership. There's so many like fake partnerships. And I'll give you an example. You know, there was a food brand that had a partnership with a sports team. And if the team won, they would give away the pizza the next day. And I'm like, why are you giving away the pizza the next day? Well, because our franchisee, our franchisees, they need time to, and I'm like, what's expiring? Like, does the dough go bad or the cheese doesn't go bad? Like, what's, what are you not a tomato sauce? What do you have to get in? What are you? And they're like, yeah, I guess we don't know. Um, and then I'm like, well, you're actually trying to make the redemption rates lower. Right? So you, so you're, you say that they went on a Sunday and then Monday from 12, exactly one day from one to three. and they admitted they're trying to get their redemption. So I'm like, what's the point of the partnership is if you win, if there's winning, you're actually trying to reduce the cost of it. Are you in or are you out? So that kind of thing. I've tried to convince sponsors of teams to hire sports journalists. There's a lot of them floating around sadly. And if you can, how is someone gonna follow you? If you're an official beverage of a team, A fan is not gonna follow you unless you produce good content. So what about being an embedded reporter like the local reporter? Give 10 tweets, maybe it's sponsored on the side, or get followed. Do things that make you get followed by the fan, and then you have a chance of reaching the fan at the height of passion, which is really what the goal is, and that's why you sponsor a team. So I give talks on like, this is what you guys should be thinking about.
[00:23:42] Ray Lentiv: Aside from the marketing aspect of partnerships, we do see a bunch of companies, food and beverage companies, working with sports teams for specific sports nutrition programs. We've seen different juice companies do it. We've seen cherry juice companies do it. Could you talk about sort of the intricacies of how that works and what you're seeing and how that's evolving right now?
[00:24:04] John Kramer: Well, I see it again being slowed down How Gatorade, you know, knocking people out of the box. It's been that way. You have to have enough of a niche that doesn't get into like How Gatorade thing or the Powerade thing. So energy drinks have been able to get through a little bit. You know, if you look at, you know, the Clippers have a separate deal and I think they're the only team or maybe they're another team that has, you know, actually the Red Bull on the side behind the guys. I haven't seen a lot of intricate stuff that is then reported. You know, How Gatorade thing you always find about, oh, it's the sweat pill, it's what seems to be marketing stuff. I'm not saying it's not real. But you see the Cherubundis and the cherry juice, the pickle juice guys. You've seen more of the chocolate milk as the natural sports drink. I think some of the groups of dairy farmers are spending more money than ever before on chocolate milk marketing, which has kind of taken over from milk marketing. I mean, milk marketing, the spend that they were spending, I think it was out of... California, Indiana, I'm not sure, the Got Milk campaign was a specific group of dairy farmers. They're spending more money and now devoting it to chocolate milk because they're speaking to the sports audiences. Their biggest time of year was Super Bowl when they put on the quarterbacks the milk mustache, but now it's like, okay, if sports is going to be what we're going to talk to, then we're going to push out And I think they've done a job on that. I think that if you look at the brands that I think are getting out there have advantages. I mean, even like in the chocolate milk space, what is it? Yo, which is Fairlife slash Coca-Cola, Core Power, which is Fairlife slash Coca-Cola, and Fairlife. So it's all about distribution. And you know, like if, That's a group of co-op milk producers. They have a proprietary straining system. They say we have 30% more protein or 40% more calcium, and then they say we're going to build three products, which is Yo for kids, Core Power for sports people, and Fair Life for people who just want more protein. And they have all the marketing and distribution power of Coca-Cola, It's like, of course I'm gonna find out about that first. And the people who are building a product will take years or will never get to that point.
[00:26:33] Ray Lentiv: Right, but sort of inside the locker room, stuff that's not necessarily known or by the general public or advertised as we're drinking this.
[00:26:39] John Kramer: Okay, so for example, and this is crazy. So if you ask me, what is the beverage that has not been intended or you have not heard about as the athlete beverage? What is the kind of the quiet thing that's going? Fair Life. So athletes are now, in NFL locker rooms, Fair Life is very popular. It's double the price of milk, but the protein in it is good. They put it in their protein shakes, added protein, protein on top of protein. You can only get so much protein in various places. And they find it easier that way. And they're not drinking the core power because that has other stuff in it. how they want you to drink it, and athletes wanna be able to formulate their own deals. But Fairlife's been the one that I've heard about for NFL.
[00:27:29] Ray Lentiv: That's really interesting. Sorry to cut you off, John. I keep cutting you off. Every time you're about to say something, I feel like I'm cutting you off. Okay, let's let John speak, because I'm horrible. I talk forever. No, this has been great so far. Thanks so much again.
[00:27:38] Ray Latif: Well, you actually asked the question that I was gonna ask, but you have other questions for sure.
[00:27:43] Ray Lentiv: Well, do we wanna keep talking about the locker room or? Yeah, I mean, I think talking about the locker room is something where, you know, it's the behind the scenes thing that you're there, you know, you've, you're, you're physically in the locker room seeing these people. Yeah.
[00:27:54] John Kramer: But see, the other problem by the way, is again, I don't know what I see half the time. I see pink juices and red juices and different colors and different bottles. And I don't even know what it is in there.
[00:28:08] Ray Latif: Right. So like unlabeled.
[00:28:09] John Kramer: Unlabeled. That is the locker room. The locker room is all this unlabeled stuff.
[00:28:14] Ray Lentiv: And is it because the locker room or the team doesn't want certain brands in there?
[00:28:19] John Kramer: Or the players are more aware than ever before of not getting paid for it. Yeah, I'm not getting paid for it. Now, the rule in the locker room is you're not supposed to tweet or put out a picture. I mean, the locker room, yes, like if it gets caught in the background, if it's like the Mark McGuire and Justine Dion, like it's caught in the background. Okay. But like, you're not supposed to even like before a game, you're not supposed to, it's, it's code that like, I can't even like tweet Steph Curry's shoes. Cause that's in his locker. I've been tempted to because sometimes they're really cool, but but but yeah, so the drinks are often these various Colors and things that you know, it's even and you see it more out in like tennis matches when they're drinking things It's always right like weird. Like what is that?
[00:29:06] Ray Latif: Well it is it is something that at least anecdotally I feel like brands that are small and incumbent that certainly can't play at any of those levels financially will start talking about oh well you know this team is using it in their locker room and it's kind of a like you
[00:29:24] John Kramer: Again, they're trying to- It's a way around the rules.
[00:29:26] Ray Latif: A way around the rules, and it's sort of a subtle way of kind of saying- They care about it.
[00:29:31] John Kramer: Even though we don't have a marketing deal, they wanted it. They wanted it. And I've actually seen that more with equipment companies than drinks over the past couple of years.
[00:29:40] Ray Latif: The juice cleanses in particular have been one that's come up for a bunch of times, which I don't know- Which is interesting.
[00:29:48] John Kramer: I actually thought athletes would get more into the, by the way, just tangent, the cold press juice thing.
[00:29:54] Ray Latif: Well, I mean, you have a couple like, you know, Deshera and Juice Press.
[00:29:59] John Kramer: Juice Press, yeah.
[00:30:00] Ray Lentiv: There's a brand called Lumi Juice, which is out of Charlottesville, Virginia, which they hang their hat or they market a lot about being in the locker rooms for the Steelers and some other brands like that.
[00:30:10] Ray Latif: Some NBA teams.
[00:30:11] Ray Lentiv: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So yeah, the cold press juicing is interesting. The cleanse might actually be interesting considering who knows what's in the bodies of athletes these days trying to flush it all out.
[00:30:23] John Kramer: On that, that's an interesting space to me. Personally, I'd rather buy two whole watermelons than an $8 juice. And I know that's one of the few things where you're also paying for the immense waste. And it's interesting to see Organic Avenue and some of the guys. I feel like that's challenged unless you can get some shelf life.
[00:30:46] Ray Latif: Well, I always, uh, I guess when that stuff first started out, you went back and forth back and forth your analysis of the, uh, price per ounce, which, uh, I don't remember what it was anymore, but it was pretty, pretty high. Um, and it seems like it hasn't come down.
[00:31:01] John Kramer: It has not come down, but people have folded. And I think you just need that like 14 day shelf order or blueprint or, you know, like you need some sort of shelf life, right?
[00:31:10] Ray Lentiv: Now, I know we've taken up a lot of your time, I really appreciate it. I know you're a 24-7 kind of guy. I haven't looked down my phone, I know, it's crazy.
[00:31:20] John Kramer: Blessing and a curse, by the way. I mean, it's a blessing to be able to do all the things that I'm doing. I'm kind of like work-trained ADD, it's amazing I don't shake. I know, it's a crazy lifestyle, but I do enjoy it. but sometimes it's just like, I actually am enjoying not really looking much at my phone right now.
[00:31:41] Ray Lentiv: Yeah, just turning it on for a second. I see you have a lot going on there. One, two, three, four, five, six.
[00:31:45] John Kramer: I keep seeing your phone light up. Six messages, that's it.
[00:31:48] Ray Latif: 34 minutes. I guess with, you know, to the fun part of it, it seems like you've done a great job of just mixing it up with the things like the, I always love the stadium fast food. I still chuckle when you were mentioning the hot, the, I think it was the Periscope of you chugging the spicy, Bloody Mary, where you're just, ah, God, painful.
[00:32:09] John Kramer: Yeah, I wish I could have periscoped the, what was the one that, oh, in Indianapolis, the shrimp cocktail. What was that? There's this famous shrimp cocktail at, oh my God, someone's gonna be like, oh, how do you not? place in Indianapolis, and I only took video at the time, but it would be nice, because it wasn't available, but it would be nice if I did Periscope on that. But, you know, opening up a baseball cards, you know, I'm proud that when I opened up a 1989 Upper Deck box, when Ken Griffey Jr. got inducted into the Hall of Fame, that 50,000 people were watching, 41,000 of which were on replay, which suggested, I mean, it's just hilarious. And I would say, The reason why I do it is because I love food and beverage along with sports. I don't want to have a separate feed. And I will say that some of the biggest rises are on, you know, when I take out of my Bevanette magazine that IRI stuff. And man, are people angry about Michelob Ultra. They go freaking nuts. This is why America is bad. And we all we do is buy water disguised as, you know, that gets to be more, uh, I think the most on the beverage side, I think people are surprised that, you know, Starbucks is now doing a billion dollars in the supermarket, essentially, you know?
[00:33:37] Ray Latif: And by the way, I really hope you don't ever read my tweets with that evil sounding voice that you just did.
[00:33:41] Ray Lentiv: Oh, you know, I wanted to ask you, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you about Arnold Palmer, who recently passed away. Amazing guy, by the way. You seem to have a great relationship with him, and he had been known for the Arnold Palmer drink, which Arizona bottled and have done really, really well with.
[00:33:59] John Kramer: Yeah, they nailed it. People know Arizona for the 99 cent can, and you can pretty much market anything except Shaq soda in that. Soda Shaq. Soda Shaq, yeah. But yeah, no, first of all, he's a great person. I got to interview him three or four times. And it was amazing that it went that long before a licensing relationship. It was surprising that his agency didn't do it, IMG, that there was actually these guys, Innovative Flavors, I don't know if you know them, but you know, out of Orlando, who just kind of became the middleman and said, let's just do this and brought it to Arizona. And I think Arizona did a great job to the point where I think Arizona did a great job to the point that it was the right combination in terms of like what Arnold begrudgingly says, 65% iced tea, 35% lemonade. So yeah, no, I think they did a great job. And I think kids don't even know him as the golfer. I think they just think, oh, you know, they know the Arnold Palmer drink.
[00:34:58] Ray Latif: Yeah, I had to explain that to my kids what it was. They were curious why it had a name, you know, of all those things. Like, why can't it just be iced tea and lemonade? And it's like, no, it's an Arnold Palmer, you know?
[00:35:08] Ray Lentiv: Well, it's amazing that he has the two legacies now. One is an amazing golfer and one now is a inventor of a beverage.
[00:35:14] John Kramer: It's much like John Madden, you know, just like, you know, he's the video game titan, not the Raiders coach or the broadcaster. He has three lives, actually.
[00:35:22] Ray Lentiv: Well, Darren, once again, thank you so, so much for having us. Really appreciate the time. For those of you who don't follow Darren on his social media accounts, what is your Twitter? Darren Rovell is my Twitter.
[00:35:33] John Kramer: I've been working up my Instagram, also at Darren Rovell. You're getting better at that. I'm trying to. I think food and beverage, I think people like food and beverage on Instagram, so it's a slow grind. You on Snapchat? I was on Snapchat, but I backed out.
[00:35:49] Ray Latif: Fair. So before we go, one more thing. Our normal way to end these is with what are you drinking? I think since we're here in your house, what's in the fridge? What are the things that right now... My La Croix or La Croix.
[00:36:02] John Kramer: La Croix, yeah. Yeah, whatever. I mean, I found those in Target and I've been going for a year on those. I think they have good flavors. I do a Dunkin' Donuts coffee. I think I prefer that over Starbucks. I think they listen better. at the, you know, like, if you say heavy skim milk, then they know what they're doing. Which is interesting with Dunkin' Donuts, because I think they're, you know, one of the best, there's not many franchises, I did a thing on franchisees, and there's not many franchises I would ever say go by, but I think they're doing a pretty good job. And... You have a t-shirt to prove it, I can't let that go. Actually, I didn't buy it at Dunkin' Donuts, And when I'm wearing a t-shirt, I'm wearing my moody tongue hat. What is that moody tongue? It's a beer brand in Chicago. Okay. It's Jared Rubin's a guy who's a chef who started a beer company. They have four beers and I'm a fan of their lemon saison. What else am I drinking? For the summer I was drinking Fisher Island lemonade.
[00:37:04] Ray Latif: Which is good stuff.
[00:37:07] John Kramer: You know it? Yeah, sure. Fisher Island Lemonade is good. There's also another thing I got. I like cocktail in a can. Life of Riley just came out. It's a raspberry vodka lemonade. So I'm there. Some interesting opportunities for those. When people come over to the Revelle barbecue, I like them to be like, what the hell is that? That's part of my, you know, like I used to do that with like minor league hats back in the day. And I like to like pull out drinks that people have never seen. Well, you got to come back to the office sometimes, you know, come to the office.
[00:37:40] Ray Lentiv: I know, you know, I always love that.
[00:37:42] John Kramer: And then as far as like The thing that I found most interesting at the last BevNET thing that I can't stop thinking about, it's banana milk. I mean, the guy was there with the banana. And I tried it and I was like, wow, this is like really good. I mean, I think it had a lot of sugar in it or natural sugar or whatever, but that's the thing that, you know, in my last thing that I was like, ah, you know, that's pretty cool.
[00:38:08] Ray Lentiv: Cool, cool. All right, well, thanks, everyone, for listening. And if you have any questions, comments, ideas for future podcasts, please send them to podcast at BevNET.com. But for now, signing off for Darren Rovell and John Craven, I'm Ray Latif. Thanks for listening.
