[00:00:00] Ray Latif: It's Friday, March 31st. This is the BEDMED podcast. I'm Ray Latif. I'm here with John Craven and Jon Landis. This is episode 51 of the BEDMED podcast. And we are very excited to actually be here in John Craven's office with you, as always. The BevNET team. Thanks, Ray.
[00:00:21] John Craven: There's just nothing I can say to follow that up.
[00:00:23] Ray Latif: There really isn't. It was a powerful intro, wasn't it?
[00:00:27] John Craven: It was. It was. And I like being here at BevNET HQ. We don't have a cool WCB acronym like our friends out in San Diego, but we do have a lot of cold brew coffee on tap this week, which is great.
[00:00:40] Ray Latif: I think that's why I was so excited, and why I feel not jittery, but like energized, because we have some cold brew nitro on draft. I forget the name of the brand.
[00:00:49] John Craven: It's Bonafide Craft Draft, and we also went with a, in case anyone cares, a BevNET New Beverage Showdown winner, Grady's Cold Brew. We got one of their kegs on tap and then we've got some some health aid too. Yeah, Grady's Cold Brew. A lot of beer, but who drinks beer?
[00:01:07] Ray Latif: Nobody, nobody. Grady's Cold Brew winner of New Beverage Showdown 4 in New York City. That was some time ago. They used the money to buy a forklift, I think is what they told us at the time. That is true. Yeah. Now we're gearing up for New Beverage Showdown 13. I'm not going to be involved in this one because I don't like the number 13. It's just bad things happen with 13.
[00:01:28] John Craven: Friday the 13th.
[00:01:29] Ray Latif: Yes, exactly. Anywho, you know, another action packed episode of the podcast. In this edition, we are including an interview with Howard Telford. Many of you probably don't know who Howard Telford is, but he is kind of a mover and shaker in the world of market research, particularly when it comes to beverages. He's a senior beverages analyst with market research firm Euromonitor. And we have a great conversation about sort of macro trends, global trends that are and have shaped the beverage industry over the last five years, have shaped innovation. And we also talk about sort of things to come and what to look for in terms of beverage companies and categories that are primed for massive and broad appeal in the United States. Everyone loves data. Data. Oh, sorry. Yeah, yeah. I checked with AP and they said it was data. We also have a great interview with Mike Boise. Mike Boise is the CEO and co-founder of FreshBev. FreshBev is a manufacturer of cold-pressed HPP juice in New Haven. Their brand is called Ripe. You may have seen it in stores here in the Northeast. They make a line of bar mixers, fresh bar mixers, and they also make a line of what they call craft juice, which comes in a variety of package formats, including some innovative bag-in-box and standing bag packages, which are really cool. And they released a few of those earlier this year and seem to be doing pretty well.
[00:02:55] John Craven: Geez, I guess few remaining Northeast-based HPP juice brands, and I think the only one that has their own facility up this way. So they're in all our Whole Foods and such up here, and they also have a deal with Ocean Spray, I think, too, right?
[00:03:13] Ray Latif: Yeah, Ocean Spray is an investor in the company. They're a key strategic partner. They provide the company with cranberries, and also with grapefruits, and they cold press all that. They also have a deal with Whole Foods, as you mentioned, where they produce a line of products that's sort of co-branded with Whole Foods. The name of it's just fresh juice. And if you're in the Northeast, you may have seen some of those. They make shots and 16-ounce juices for Whole Foods, or approximately 16-ounce juices for Whole Foods.
[00:03:41] John Craven: Yeah, that's up this way. Whole Foods does not have its own HPP or raw juice that they sell in the store. What FreshBev is doing is basically New England's, I guess, version of that, so.
[00:03:54] Ray Latif: Yeah, and what I talk about with Mike is, and I did this recording, this interview at FreshBev headquarters in New Haven, talked about a lot of things associated with the company and the brand, including a recent revamp of the right packaging, as well as sort of the state of the cold press juice category and how it's sort of evolved over the last two or three years, and that has been a pretty dramatic evolution.
[00:04:16] Jon Landis: Mike has always been to me a pioneer in that, you know, I mean, they, they had their HPP machine, I think like four years ago at least. And they've been cold pressing juice there for like five or six years, I think. And, uh, you know, he is definitely someone that I talked to early on, uh, when all this juice stuff was going on just to get a handle of what it really is. And I'm always impressed by. how hard that guy works. He is definitely a mover and a shaker. And I know a lot of you who listen to this podcast draw inspiration from those types of figures. So definitely check that interview out.
[00:04:50] Ray Latif: And we, we had been down there before me and John Craven and at the time freshmen have been co-packing for a few different brands. sort of helping pave the path for them to get to market with cold pressing and HPP. And they've since gone to a completely in-house production for their own brand and for the Whole Foods brand that is as well. But yeah, it's interesting to hear about Mike's passion for the category and his desire to really bring better juice to Americans. That kind of passion and that kind of drive is really important to have in this industry. And it also helps to have a great partner like Ocean Spray. To provide not only the financial resources, but a steady flow of fresh and consistent produce.
[00:05:32] John Craven: Yeah, and I think it's interesting at this point, you know, four years ago or whenever he started up, I mean, the categories just changed so much. Back then, when HPP was like brand new and everyone was trying to figure out how to do it, it was like a technical advantage that, you know, I'm not really sure that still exists, but I think he's sort of seen the ups and downs of it. And since that time that we visited, the models for these companies have all kind of evolved. You know, there used to be this kind of like, everyone was trying to do the same thing. You know, now he's got a company that seems like it's got its own unique niche, which is pretty neat to see kind of how that's happened over time.
[00:06:13] Ray Latif: BevNET has its own kind of unique niche as well, in that it's a mover and shaker when it comes to the food and beverage media business. Did BevNET sponsor the podcast? No, BevNET has always long been a sponsor of the podcast in more ways than one. But along those lines, you know, Jon Landis had a great interview with our design team or three-fourths of our design team also included in this podcast. John, you want to give a little brief intro to what it is that you talk about?
[00:06:41] Jon Landis: I'm always impressed by just the visuals that this company is able to put out there. And I think it says a lot about our brand, the high quality of design that comes out of this office and everything from the magazine to our website to what do we do at our events and the videos that we produce. And it's all done in-house. And these guys are workhorses, and they're a lot of fun. And they're really, really talented folks. And I'm really excited to introduce them to you guys. Yeah, I'm excited too.
[00:07:12] Ray Latif: All right, let's get right to it. Let's start with the interview with Howard Telford. Without further ado, Mr. Euromonitor himself. All right, we're on the line with Howard Telford, who is a senior beverage analyst with Euromonitor. Howard, thanks so much for joining me.
[00:07:27] Howard Telford: Oh, nice to be here.
[00:07:29] Ray Latif: Euromonitor is a global market research firm and your focus is on beverages. Can you tell us a little bit about your position and what Euromonitor does?
[00:07:37] Howard Telford: Yeah, so I'm a Senior Beverages Analyst with the company. We operate in over 80 global markets, moving to 100 very soon. And what I do, I coordinate the research program for our soft drinks and hot drinks teams. We size very different categories in very different markets across those 80 countries with market sizes, brand shares, and forecasts and reporting on our passport system. Great.
[00:08:00] Ray Latif: And how'd you get involved with the company? How'd you get involved in beverages and being a Senior Beverages Analyst with Euromonitor?
[00:08:07] Howard Telford: Yeah, well, I started with the company, I think, about seven years ago. And so I started in more of a general research role covering more the US market. Found I had a real interest in the soft drinks industry and hot drinks as well. And so I moved over to more of a global role about three or four years ago. Great.
[00:08:23] Ray Latif: And you're based in Chicago, hence the call that we're on right now. Yeah. So for this interview, I just wanted to really get a sense of some of the research that you guys have undertaken over the past year or so and kind of get a sense of where you see the industry moving and why certain categories are hot. But let's back up for a second, talk about sort of macro trends, macro consumption trends that have shaped the evolution of the beverage space over the last five years. Can you talk about what has really moved the needle for trends?
[00:08:54] Howard Telford: Yeah, I mean, it's a very interesting time. I'm actually in the middle of writing a report on sort of the global soft drinks industry in 2017 and then looking ahead over the next five years. And I think one of the things we found, certainly here in North America, but globally, is just the volume on that health and wellness debate is louder really than ever before. We certainly obviously have these healthier minded consumers in North America and in Western Europe. But we're even seeing this in Asia and in the Middle East. There is more consumer attention being placed on attitudes towards sugar. There's more suspicion of ingredients in beverages and food as well, and more concern with food safety. This is something that's particularly prominent in China at the moment. And also rising demand for functional benefits from beverages as well.
[00:09:38] Ray Latif: So within the United States, is this something, you know, a thirst for functional and better for you? Is this making its way out to the rest of the world or is the rest of the world just now sort of catching up with it? I guess my question is, is the United States sort of leading the way and paving the path for global health and wellness trends?
[00:09:57] Howard Telford: Yeah, well, I think it's something that's happening very quickly. And, you know, I would even say, you know, if we look at some markets in Western Europe, particularly the UK with the Action on Sugar campaign, There's a sugar tax that's being proposed there that will be implemented very shortly. Something like 19 countries now have a sugar or soda tax on food and drink. And it's being proposed everywhere. It isn't really just a developed market trend like we would like to think of it. I mean, we have the Philippines, India, across Europe, in addition to the localities here in the US where it's having a big impact, like Philadelphia. So yeah, I think this is something that's happening pretty organically. This is not something that's necessarily sort of filtering down.
[00:10:37] Ray Latif: You mentioned China and the Middle East and certainly other parts of the world. When we think of those countries, you know, within the beverage industry, we think of their impact on formulations and flavors for food and beverages here. How is global migration of flavors affecting innovation and formulations in the US? What have you seen?
[00:10:57] Howard Telford: I think there's several aspects to that. I mean, I think if we look at the consumer generally, and obviously there are exceptions, but I think, you know, we're looking at a consumer that is more experimental, certainly here in North America and in Europe, the more adventurous in terms of bold flavors and global flavors, unfamiliar flavors, spicy and bitter formulations and beverages. And I think that is something that, you know, I think it comes from beverages they may have tried abroad or beverages they've tried in food service, in ethnic cuisine, I think. that is having an impact on retail. But I think when, you know, when we're talking about flavors, there's the, you know, the palatability side and the enjoyment side, and that's very important. But what I think we're seeing, and this is certainly something that I think was apparent at Expo West a couple of weeks ago, flavors are also just a really cool marketing tool for some of these brands, because it helps to differentiate, you know, the product on the shelf. What is your portfolio? What are you, what unique flavor are you bringing to the table? And so, you know, if we look at the really interesting things over last year, you know, we had the serrano pepper flavored soda, for example, lavender soda, you know, and if you particularly in a food service setting, this is something you just want to try and experiment with. And if you look at some of the highest growth brands in our system, particularly in the US brand like LaCroix, the unique and very frankly, they have a lot of flavors that are on the shelf. And that experimentation, I think, is a big reason for the brand success.
[00:12:19] Ray Latif: And it also is a big reason why people are getting into other beverage categories as well. Those bolder, more unique flavors. Certainly you were seeing that in kombucha and in cold brew coffee, tree waters or plant-based waters. And let's talk about some of those categories as well. As far as, you know, kombucha and cold brew coffee, I mentioned probably two of the hottest segments of the industry at this point, or at least to industry observers, that is. People always ask what's the potential for say kombucha as a mainstream beverage. And can you talk to that?
[00:12:48] Howard Telford: This is something we sort of break down in our system, RTDT, into the still and the sparkling variety And the sparkling variety is obviously going to be dominated by that kombucha segment And as you say, it is fairly niche in conventional channels, something that's taken off in specialty channels But it is still something that's a double-digit growth category, that sparkling RTDT segment in North America. And that's, you know, that's exciting for an industry where, you know, frankly, if we look at sort of a national trend in terms of volume, at least, we're looking for these rare pockets of growth. And so I think kombucha is making inroads into conventional. And one thing, you know, if we, if we talk about the fermented beverages, brands like Brew Doctor, which we saw a couple of weeks ago, you know, they have that sort of that craft beer appeal and they have, you know, the water kefir is slightly, you know, it has a slightly more accessible flavor profile for me. And I think, you know, this Walter Kieffer products might be the next step, I think, in terms of making it more accessible, making it a little more mainstream. But this is something I expect to continue growing. One thing I tend to think about is, you know, what is the best fit in terms of channels for these? Is this just a Whole Foods product? Or is this something that can filter down into a Kroger or a mainstream grocery? I certainly think there's premium conventional groceries, so the Sprouts and the Marianos. This is something where it's already available. And there's a lot of application, I think, as well in food service. So it's a great fit as a summer option for cafes and coffee shops and things like that.
[00:14:14] Ray Latif: Yeah, one of the biggest reasons people started drinking kombucha in the first place was the functional aspect of it. It's a fermented product. People talk about probiotics a lot when they're speaking about kombucha. Has that been effectively marketed and communicated to consumers at this point? And are consumers really, you know, the mainstream consumer, the broad base of consumers, are they really fully understanding and demanding probiotics?
[00:14:40] Howard Telford: I think there is a consumer education aspect there, certainly when you migrate from the specialty to the conventional channels. I think there is a broad awareness of the product. I think a vinegar-based product, you know, it isn't for everyone. But it is, I think this is something that you know, is ongoing. And I think when I mentioned the Borda Kefir products, those also have that probiotic functional claim, but maybe, you know, the flavors that you're able to use there, it almost tastes to me in some instances, some of the brands I've tried, you know, it is something that, you know, it could be a functional alternative to a CSD. You know, it has that sparkling appeal. It's a little lighter. It has some of the same flavors that you're used to. And so maybe that's the way that you transition brands into conventional.
[00:15:23] Ray Latif: As far as some other categories that are doing well, plant-based waters seem to be something that has sort of been on the horizon for some time ever since the emergence of coconut water. New products like aloe and maple water have always been sort of on the fringes, on the bleeding edge of what's next. What's their path to success? And I guess, frankly, do they have a path to success that is similar to that of coconut waters?
[00:15:51] Howard Telford: It's a really interesting point that because I mean, we recently sized coconut and plant water globally in our research program. And we found that this is still in almost all instances, in fact, in every instance, this is dominated by coconut water in terms of packaged retail products. They're really even in markets like Eastern Europe where you have birch water is on, you know, is a traditional beverage. it hasn't sort of made that dent in terms of package sales. And I think one of the things that differentiates it from the success of Coconut Water is, you know, I don't think Birch Water and Maple Water and Banana Water and some of these, you know, some of the more niche brands in this sort of plant water segment, I don't know if they've established that clear functional hydration positioning, Natural Products drinks, if you will, that Coconut Water has. These brands seem to me a little more about refreshment at the moment. And so I think the success story there is going to be the first alternative plant water that can tell that convincing functional story to consumers. But there are a lot of, you know, everything wants to be a water of some kind. That is where we're seeing a lot of the real volume growth, at least in global beverages. You know, there were a lot of interesting products at Expo West that caught my eye. One was Bloom Honey Water. I don't know if you had a chance to try that. No, I did not. Yeah, that was in the, that was sort of one of the niche products off in the newer emerging product segment. Everything's marketed as a water, but it has that sort of unique ingredient, so. It was a honey-based water, you said? Yeah, I think it's a distilled water or filtered water, and then honey and ginger is part of the mix. I think it's more of a refreshment story. It's not a functional beverage. Okay. My point being that just, you know, I think this is still a point of real innovation, seeing what you can do with water. You know, we had artichoke water a couple of years ago. Right. But do those brands have that clear functional story of coconut water? And I don't know if there's a breakout there.
[00:17:39] Ray Latif: There's also the aspect of added sugar and sweetness in a beverage as well. And that affects purchase decisions for sure and consumption decisions. We did a podcast a few, about a couple of months ago with Mike Rapoli, the co-founder of Vitamin Water and Body Armor. And he spoke about sugar as needing a purpose going forward. People need to know that it's in there for a reason. Is that what you're seeing as well? Are brands needing to make functional claims about added sugar and added sweetness, whether it be honey or otherwise?
[00:18:09] Howard Telford: Well, yeah, this is something that, you know, I mentioned, you know, this is a global sort of thing that we're seeing particularly. It's on the agenda everywhere. I mean, if you look at a market, you know, if you look at the UK, traditional brands like Ribena Concentrates, Capri Sun, these are no longer allowed on the shelves in some of the leading supermarkets unless they have no added sugar. the entire range has to be reformulated in order to survive. But, you know, here in the US, I think the volume on the sugar debate is reaching that sort of level. And that's particularly going to be impacted by the regulatory changes, some of the new labeling with the added sugar being sort of broken out from total sugar content. And so I think this is something that I think a lot of brands are going to end up struggling with. And I'm not quite sure yet what that's going to look like or what sort of impact those labeling changes are going to have.
[00:18:53] Ray Latif: There's also some regulations on the docket, or at least a bill on the docket, regarding dairy alternatives and nut milks. And that's certainly a hot topic in Congress, or at least within the beverage industry, it's a hot topic that Congress is looking at right now. How is it that dairy alternatives can most effectively market themselves going forward to reach that broad consumer? And I know certainly there are some beverage brands that are doing really well selling almond milk and cashew milk and things like that. But to really break out and reach the level of consumption as, say, cow's milk is, is it added protein? Is it another functional ingredient?
[00:19:34] Howard Telford: What's the key to all dairy's future? I think, particularly if we think about, you know, this market originated as more of a... This was a health and wellness consumer. This was probably a more affluent consumer and it was a single serve product. And, you know, protein, I think was key there. Organic as well is something, you know, they want a plant-based protein solution. But I think if we're talking about how do we transition this into conventional, I think just simply taste sort of a cleaner, accessible, maybe slightly sweeter taste profile is gonna be the key to making this work for a more conventional channel consumer. So, you know, obviously one of the big moves in this space, Idaho Co. launched, you know, their coconut milk with dairy alternative at Expo West in the US. It was launched a few months ago in the UK. And that's one, you know, they have that brand awareness. I think people know what, you know, they know the benefits of coconut water. Coconut water is an ingredient as well. It's something that we're seeing in a lot of different beverages. I think that's, again, an area where coconut water or coconut-based or coconut milks have an advantage. But, you know, protein is still, plant-based protein is still extremely important when we're talking about specialty and natural consumers. I just think, you know, what goes in the fridge for a parent at home as an alternative to normal dairy, normal milk, I think those coconut-based solutions have a leg up at the moment.
[00:21:00] Ray Latif: Because of the consistency in the mouthfeel?
[00:21:03] Howard Telford: Yeah, the consistency in the mouthfeel, I think it's a little more familiar. I think it's a little more accessible. If you think about, you know, some of the early attempts, you know, like the hemp milks and, you know, almond milk I happen to enjoy. I don't think it's for everyone. But I think that was something that was, you know, came closest, I think, to more of an everyday product. Just my opinion.
[00:21:22] Ray Latif: Well, Ripple's making a really hard push toward being an everyday product. They're sold in a lot of different places, including Target. They're a national brand at this point. And their claim to fame is that they do have that texture and consistency of cow's milk with added protein and it's all plant-based. What do you think of that brand and what do you see as its potential?
[00:21:42] Howard Telford: Yeah, I didn't actually have a chance to try that. I believe that's a pulse-based product, right? That's pea-based protein? Correct, yeah. Yeah, I didn't have a chance to try that, but I think, going back to my original point, I think people know the protein, protein is a big part of the selling point, but I think in order to succeed in conventional channels, you are competing against the taste of dairy. And I think replicating that mouthfeel, making a product that people are familiar with and are gonna wanna trial and repeat, that's probably the key to making these sort of dairy alternative products work in conventional, at least until the consumer education is a little higher in terms of what these products are and what the benefits are.
[00:22:23] Ray Latif: The benefits of cold brewed coffee are relatively well known among those who drink the products. You have a smoother taste profile. You have more caffeine than you would in traditional brewed coffee. Certainly a hot concept within cafes like Starbucks and Dunkin' Donuts. And within the beverage industry, it seems to be really making inroads in specialty and certainly in natural, and in some cases in conventional. But it's still a very, very tiny segment within the overall category. From your perspective, is cold brew, does it have the potential to be the future of RTD, or is it going to remain a niche concept within packaged coffee?
[00:23:02] Howard Telford: I'm still pretty excited about the possibilities to make that work in conventional. I think high brew, for example, at least here in the US, has been the closest into making that work in terms of price point. in conventional. One other concept that, you know, I think we saw a lot of particularly two weeks ago was just sort of the nitro, the new textures that you can use with that. That's probably more got more food service application, I think. And the price point still seems pretty high, at least when I've I've purchased it. But, you know, the texture there and, you know, the sort of Guinness like mouthfeel of that is kind of exciting. And then also we've just seen some sort of very, you know, the big boys, the sort of there's a lot of investment Um, in that space, obviously, you know, Stumptown was purchased by JAB, I think a couple of years ago now. And that's one brand that I think eventually could, it's already quite a big brand. I think it could sort of push a little further into conventional. I mean, maybe, maybe the main application there remains food service. all outside of the home. I know they have an office delivery program that I think is quite successful. So I think getting the price point down is going to be key there. But I'm pretty excited about the future of that category. And we did see some kind of cool, interesting blends as well. I think it was a product called Beach Coffee. I'm not sure if you tried that. Yeah, it was coconut water based. Yeah, coconut water based with the cold brew. So slightly different flavor, a little sweeter. So I'm pretty excited about where that category is heading.
[00:24:28] Ray Latif: You know, the U.S. is a country that's grown up on heavily sweetened indulgent flavors when it comes to coffee. You think of the bottled Frappuccino products. Cold brew at this point is sort of getting on the edge of that. And you mentioned some of these really bold flavors, some of these innovative flavors that we saw at Expo West. From your perspective, is that what Cold Brew needs to do to make a dent in Starbucks territory and what may be Dunkin' Donuts territory as well with the launch of their RTD beverage?
[00:24:58] Howard Telford: Yeah, and I think when Dunkin enters this space, when Starbucks, you know, obviously are popularizing this in food service and did so last summer, there is a big part of the country now that I think this is going to be their education point for cold brew. And so that is going to change the category, certainly. But if we look at what's happened with something like coconut water, this began as a super premium product. with some ethnic brands that I think have just been sort of familiar to consumers. But, you know, we're now at the point with Coconut Water where we have distinct tiers. We have the lower price, more accessible, you know, flavored products. Then we have, you know, sort of a mid-tier and then we have the super premium as well. And so I think that ultimately having multiple brands and competition there in cold brew is healthy for the category. That's what you want to see in terms of making it work in all channels.
[00:25:44] Ray Latif: Great. As far as, you know, we could talk all day about all different kinds of categories, especially some that are, you know, on bleeding edge or emerging edge status. But from your perspective at Euromonitor, what are you looking at as bleeding edge trends or ingredients today that are relatively unknown or are known specifically in the natural channel that has mainstream and breakout potential?
[00:26:05] Howard Telford: Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I mentioned we spend a lot of our time sort of doing national market sizing and looking at sort of the big picture, all channels of trade. And so some of the things that we would consider to be sort of niche or specialty, what is filtering down now to conventional. When I get a chance to see these shows like Expo West, Expo West, especially Food Show, I mentioned before, but I'm pretty excited about Water Keefer. I think that has the ability to move into mainstream. and to be a pretty viable product with consumers, I thought the flavors were really nice in a lot of the brands that I tried. I think in terms of specific flavors, I'm looking for a lot more sour fruits. I think the consumer is more sort of interested in bitter fruits, grapefruit, yuzo, things like that. I suspect we could see more of that in flavor innovation. I will give one shout out to a product that I enjoyed is a little more niche and specialty. I don't know if you had a chance to try the the Moringa, the Moringa products from Cooley Cooley. Yep, for sure. Yeah, the energy shots. And, you know, I thought that ingredient just that the Moringa leaf, you know, mineral rich, anti-inflammatory, I quite enjoyed the energy shots. I thought that was a nice. So I think that is one ingredient that I would identify. I'll be looking for that at least in future juice formulations.
[00:27:20] Ray Latif: Yeah, I mean, it's interesting that you've mentioned the taste profile almost as trumping the functional aspect of the product at this point. Is that something that you're a monitor sees, you know, is kind of the direction of the beverage industry at this point? I mean, it always has been taste is king and, you know, function has of late become just as important. But as far as really tickling the consumer palate, is that the best way to get to trial? Or is function the best way to get to trial?
[00:27:51] Howard Telford: Yeah, and I think when we're talking about moving into conventional channels, I think that's a sort of a deal breaker for a lot of consumers. If we thought about these sort of three pillars, we have the health, we have the function, and then we have the taste, and you have to balance all three. And I think you can win a trial with with a healthy product, with a functional product, with a wide variety of ingredients, with the whole foods consumer and the specialty consumer. But the reason I keep going back to taste, you know, when I'm looking at a market size for the U.S. as a whole and North America as a whole, products that are going to make an impact there are going to have to balance all three. And I think the really successful, the really successful brands, the Vitacocos and the sort of, yeah, exactly. You know, they have to have that. find a way to balance that. And some of that goes back to flavors and ingredients, you know, it's becoming more of a challenge. One of my sort of takeaways from the expo show was, you know, I think a couple of years ago I saw, you know, Steve Year and Aretha Tull was sort of front and center in campaigns, you know, it was on the banners And now it's still in the products, but I don't know if it's taken off in terms of resonating with consumers as a natural ingredient. So, I don't know, do we stick with that? Is it monk fruit or what is the next sweetener there? So how do you balance all three? If I were to sum it up, that is probably the main challenge in terms of how do you bring a product into mainstream appeal.
[00:29:15] Ray Latif: I just have one more quick question and it's sort of related to your mention of brands like Buy and Vitacoco, which started out as these tiny entrepreneurial brands and really made headway with certain functional claims, but also with great branding and great marketing. What do you see as the sort of roadmap to success, or at least the key directions for success on that roadmap for brands like that and other entrepreneurial brands going forward?
[00:29:47] Howard Telford: Yeah, it's a great question. I mentioned it before, but, you know, I go back to balancing those three sort of things that I think the consumer is looking for. Obviously, you know, we're talking about those brands. A lot of equity funding helps. For sure. And taking a slow and steady approach in terms of scaling up the distribution. If we look at a brand like Bai, for example, my suspicion there is a lot of the consumers that are supporting that brand, a lot of the consumers that are supporting high growth brands like Sparkling Ice or LaCroix, over the last few years are winning consumers away from some other habit, from CSDs in particular. And, you know, they produced a product that has a functional story, it's healthier than, it's better for you than the alternative, but it's also, it's a refreshing drink, it's a tasty drink. And I think it's winning consumers away, you know, from that refreshment occasion, it was formerly served by a very high sugar product is maybe sort of, you know, this is the can that they're grabbing instead. And that's certainly the case with a product like LaCroix and certainly with sparkling ice. The brands that I sort of, I zero in on are the ones that I think, you know, if I'm looking five years ahead are going to be the ones that are replacing CSDs in the basket. And so that requires not just these healthy natural ingredients and a functional story, but also balancing, you know, accessibility in terms of flavors, something that can blow up in conventional.
[00:31:10] Ray Latif: Yeah, and it's interesting you mentioned refreshment. It's an often unused word or a little underused word in beverage industry circles. It's something that you need to get to to really address that broader appeal, that broader audience. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Howard, this has been great. I really appreciate you taking the time to speak with us.
[00:31:29] Howard Telford: Yeah, my pleasure.
[00:31:30] Ray Latif: And hopefully we'll be in touch very soon. Yeah, great. Thank you very much. Thank you. All right, as you heard from Howard, he spent a lot of time at Expo West, Natural Products Expo West 2017, that is. And it was interesting to hear his take on some of the bleeding edge and trendy beverages, especially from a guy who sits and looks at a ton of numbers all day and looks at data and really what's moving the needle based on that kind of research.
[00:31:53] Jon Landis: It's hard not to be impressed by Expo West. It's sensory overload. It's like Las Vegas for natural food and beverage. There's a lot of really interesting stuff happening. And at such a large event, it makes it A lot of it appear almost bigger than it really is. But to your point, I mean, people who are looking at macro and global trends are. paying attention to what's going on in innovation in the United States. And that's led by a lot of those folks listening to this podcast out there taking risks and starting brands.
[00:32:24] John Craven: Well, the thing you always have to keep in mind is the stuff, you know, you see it, those shows are on our website or conferences, or you hear us talk about with excitement or are things that are still in a lot of ways, just ideas. You know, someone like a Euromonitor that's actually looking at like what's really happening. It's just a different perspective. And, you know, neither one on its own really gives the full picture of where the industry's going or where, you know, the right place to innovate it. I think it's neat to hear, you know, perspective from folks who, you know, stare at data all day, you know, be a Euromonitor and IRI at our conferences or whatever, spins, whoever. So I think it's one of those challenges for, the entrepreneur that's actually out there that has to run their company to figure out how to balance these kind of different things.
[00:33:14] Ray Latif: Yeah. And as he noted in the interview, the key to all of this is taste and refreshment. I mean, You know, there is really some appeal, a very niche appeal for highly functional beverages that don't have great taste. But if you really want to scale and you really want to be the next soda, you really want to take some of that share that's being left behind by really sugary sweetened beverages, you still got to taste really, really good. And, you know, I think Howard hits the nail on the head when he talks about some of the brands that are really making that happen right now. All right, we introduced Mike Boise, gave him quite an introduction. I think he needs no more of an introduction. So let's go right to Mike. All right, we're here at FreshBev. FreshBev is a maker of HPP cold-pressed juices. The headquarters are located in New Haven, where I am at right now and sitting with the co-founder and CEO, Mike Boise. Mike, thanks so much for having me.
[00:34:06] Natural Products: Hey, how's it going?
[00:34:07] Ray Latif: It's going quite well. Good for you to stop by the juicery. It is a fantastic and pretty impressive operation you have here. Thank you. Pumping out quite a bit of juice, and you have been for some time. How long has this place been open?
[00:34:18] Natural Products: We started at the beginning in 2010. 2010, yeah. Not this place. We had our original facility in Central Connecticut, but we've been down here for about three and a half, four years now.
[00:34:26] Ray Latif: Cool, cool. And you've added quite a bit of equipment since the early days, haven't you?
[00:34:30] Natural Products: Yes, we have. We've pretty much designed it all ourselves, too, because we had to, you know, necessity is the mother of invention thing. But it's finally starting to settle in here, without a doubt. We're cranking a lot of juice out.
[00:34:40] Ray Latif: Well, I was here a couple of years ago, and I just took a quick tour right now, and it looks like you've added quite a bit. You mentioned a few times that you were involved in some of the manufacturing of the equipment, some of the design of the equipment. Your background is in engineering and the culinary cuisine lifestyle. I'm not really sure. Anything other than a chef, I guess, is what you are.
[00:34:59] Natural Products: You know, honestly, I was a cook and a chef through college and that's what got me into food and I loved it. And I went to school for mechanical engineering. So I got out and I did mechanical engineering for aerospace engineering, actually, for about six or seven years. And I just missed the food industry a lot. I'm an engineer, so I love to cook, though, you know, and I wanted so I put two and two together, really simultaneously saw this huge hole in the market for making better juice, because as an engineer and a chef, there was times where I saw some food plants and how things were made. And I thought to myself that juice, especially, It's a purely basic extraction process. You press vegetable juices and other fruits and you extract, you ream citrus juice really. You can definitely improve upon the process. And then pasteurization, which thanks to our friends in the high pressure industry these days, they've enabled us to really look at the way we kind of thermally process juice. Long story short, not to geek out, you know, we really just kind of thought outside the box a little, you know, really questioned the status quo about what was on the shelf and brought us where we are today. And obviously we find ourselves, timing is everything as they say, we find ourselves in an environment right now where we also have a big, large consumer coming at us, you know, that does see a lot of value in better food, cleaner label, and they're willing to pay a little more for something much better. So it's good timing for us too.
[00:36:21] Ray Latif: Yeah, I mean, you guys started out with your craft cocktail mixers, kind of changed the game for what bar mixers could taste like, really elevated the taste profile, the freshness profile of some of those products. A few years ago, you launched your first everyday juice kind of product. Our craft juice. Your craft juice, which was blanking on the name of it right now.
[00:36:40] Natural Products: It's just ripe craft juice. Ripe craft juice.
[00:36:43] Ray Latif: Originally, the first one you had was Project... Oh, we had Project Fresh for a little bit, too.
[00:36:46] Natural Products: So Project Fresh was a, that was an experimental process. Right. But it kind of brought you to where you are today. It really did. As a matter of fact, the brand did very well. But again, like I told you before, we consider a lot of great HPP brands out there. Suge, Evolution Fresh, Blueprint. I mean, these to us are our friends. I mean, we're educating the consumer base together. It's a great, awesome new market, HPP, cold press. People ask me that question, are you worried about competition ever? And I kind of look at them and say, I mean, look at the craft beer industry and in the craft distilling industry, there's thousands of players. And every year there's still a, you know, 50 to a hundred that proliferate. Why? Because they challenge the status quo. They do something different. They believe. And for me, I mean, we've got a couple, we've got a couple of trailblazers right now in our industry that are our partners, you know, educating the consumer base. Right. So when we, to get back to my original point on Project Fresh, we started Project Fresh, we got a great BevNET award on it, Best Juice 2015, I think, right? Best Fresh Juice 2015, yeah. And very excited about it, it's doing very well, but I found ourselves going down the path of kind of me too. Why are we doing this? There's a lot of great juices out there, you know, obviously we're behind the eight ball, and from a lot of aspects, Suzy was blazing a trail, doing an awesome job. So I just thought long and hard and said to myself, you know, how can we still leverage our technology and our knowledge of making really good juice in a way that's not going to compete with everybody, but embrace them and compliment what they do and grow the cold press HPP space. So we decided to roll out craft juice, which is really simply it's all those juices we grew up on. cranberry, pineapple, pomegranate, orange, grapefruit, 100% traceable to the grower. So we buy from growers we know. We only have a few. They're Global Gap. They're not organic. They're Global Gap. They're local, well, within the U.S., and one in Mexico for a citrus. And we HPP cold-pressed the juice. We don't mess with it. But again, they're the juices that people know and drink every day at high volume. So why not bring everything that HPP cold-pressed is into the juices that people drink every day, which I think might lead us into, you know,
[00:38:46] Ray Latif: Well, you introduced that the ripe craft juice line in late 2014, we wrote about it. And then eventually you kind of moved on to what is now the brand. What's changed and why?
[00:38:59] Natural Products: You know, I think that, um, we've been just trying to really not get ahead of ourselves as a young company. We've had some great advisors and, you know, over the years, it's always been like, focus, don't get too far ahead of yourselves. You know, I don't try to do as many things at once. And we didn't, you know, we've been flying under the radar for a while. We've talked to you guys really. And that's it. We haven't done a lot of press releases because honestly, I've known from the beginning that we, I truly believe we're going to do something that's going to be quite disruptive in the next few years. From, again, from bar juice, the first cold press bar mixer on the market, to craft juice, everything that HPP cold pressed is, but with the juices we drink every day. The first fresh cranberry, for example, with the Ocean Spray Cooperative. I mean, that's the way we're doing that. To some of our packaging innovations. You know, we're the first to roll out this 46 ounce barrel bag, which is going to be one of the more cost effective, multi-serve HPP cold pressed packaging innovations, all the way to our five gallon bib innovation. We've really taken our time to get all these ducks in a row so we can come out of the gate strong with a great brand. Things that have changed really are just us kind of growing up, raising some capital, being able to afford professionals to come in here and help me and guide me and teach me. We've hired senior guys, we've hired junior guys. I've seen a lot of value in that. I think a lot of entrepreneurs that start out you know, they have this envision of this hipster office environment and the cool couch and they come, you know, they're really, they're really well interior decorated.
[00:40:22] Ray Latif: But, you know... You get cranberry juice splashed all over you all the time.
[00:40:25] Natural Products: Yeah, to me, I just dance in like cranberry juice. But to me, it was like a symphony of very senior guys that had a long, deep experience in a lot of the big CPG companies that you know, put out a lot of products that maybe aren't as popular these days. But these are the guys that know the core of the business and they have a lot of great relationships there. And so when they come together with guys like us that are trying to challenge the status quo and think differently and leverage new technology. That's when really cool brands are made. And that's kind of the biggest changes that have, to answer your question, the biggest changes that have been made so far is, I guess we're growing up, to answer your question, you know? We really are. I mean, I could see it.
[00:40:59] Ray Latif: You slimmed down the package size. You're at 12 ounces now. And you also have different package offerings.
[00:41:05] Natural Products: Yeah, so on craft juice, it's the 12 for the single serve. And then we'll do the 46 ounce barrel bag for multi. And then bar juice, we have our 750 milliliter. retail and then we have a it's the it's just a little bigger one liter for bar for on-premise um and then of course we have our five gallon bib so it's the first cold pressed large volume multi-serve and we put any of our juices in there for any large enough count that is going to buy enough of that particular juice you know
[00:41:31] Ray Latif: Right. And on the label side itself, on the branding element of what you guys do, the R.Y.P.E. logo has evolved. Your tagline has evolved. For me, you know, I mentioned this before we got on the air, it feels like a very local brand, even though you're a national brand, the logo itself and the tagline of liquid produce is a pretty interesting one as well. What's the thinking behind the branding there and the tagline?
[00:41:57] Natural Products: We employed Tarmac out of Austin to do our most recent redesign, and it was quite a challenge at the beginning because, you know, my instructions were, first of all, I always like to let any artist do their work. You know, I don't want to impede them too much, but we want to kind of share with them what we believe in as a brand. My instructions were, we need to go into a package that's going to enable us to have that look and feel of truly what we are. We're a craft juice. I mean, we squeeze 100% traceable juice and put it in a bottle and never heat it. And we'll always be like that, whether we're doing 10,000 gallons or 10 million. So my instructions were we need to have the look and feel and image of a craft brand, but one that can also scale. We want to redefine juice and we want to redefine the simple juices at least and bring another level of quality to juice for people in America. You have to have an image and a look if you want to do that as well. You know, an image and a look that people can also trust.
[00:42:50] Ray Latif: Right.
[00:42:50] Natural Products: You know, something that is streamlined and it looks like it's professional. It looks like, okay, these guys are washing their hands before they bake this juice. And you know what I mean? And, you know, it was easier said than done, but we think the package that we found was pretty cool. And if you look at our new logo, the ripe craft juice. We took some inspiration as well from produce. Obviously, liquid produce is sort of our mother label, and we have the craft juice line, which is our simple juice, and then we have our bar juice line. But if you look at our logo, it's this sort of oblong, an old school's produce sticker. And that's actually exactly where the inspiration was taken from, is the old Chiquita banana produce stickers. Because we thought, hey, you know, how can we inspire that produce feel? Well, why not keep our logo looking like a produce sticker? And really, lends itself to what we believe in to the point to where we buy fresh produce directly from our growers and impress it. So it's worked out good. We're super happy with the brand and it's going to evolve a little to the new look. We think it's a good blend between, again, iconic, professional look, yet approachable and craft. But enough sophistication in there too, you know?
[00:43:51] Ray Latif: You mentioned that you look at some other brands as being part of the cold press HBP community, that you consider yourselves to be sort of friendly with those brands.
[00:44:00] Natural Products: Well, at least I think that, I'm not sure.
[00:44:03] Ray Latif: Yeah, we should do a poll and see how it goes. You know, this category has really evolved and grown very, very quickly. since it really showed up in 2012, 2013. You know, some people might talk about it sort of hitting a little bit of a ceiling, kind of slowing down in terms of growth. Where do you see the category at, at this point? And, you know, how do you see RIPE is standing out among the vast number of competitors that are still out there?
[00:44:26] Natural Products: Yeah, that's a great question, man. I mean, that's, you know, one thing that probably thought about a million times. So look at flash pasteurization or pasteurization technology. I mean, when it came out, Yeah, there was a lot of initial brands that were doing some really cool stuff and a lot of brands proliferated in the whole bid and same with us. I mean, again, you know, we had Suja pretty much, our blueprint, you know, lead this and Suja do an awesome job in Evolution Fresh. I mean, these are awesome great brands. When you really think about what all of us do to put juice in a bottle, and then just put it on the shelf compared to the way things were done five or ten years ago, it's phenomenal. And the fact that, you know, you can still put a juice out, 16 ounces of cold-pressed organic juice for $6.99, $7.99. A lot of us are like, wow, that's expensive. But in the industry, we're like, it takes a lot to do that. Long story short, listen, I truly feel that high pressure technology is here to stay. I mentioned it before, Hyperbaric's been a very close partner of ours, and they are very excited about where it's going. A lot of people will say it's hit its ceiling, okay, because there's been a few brands that have released and come out, and possibly some of the leading natural retailers are getting a little tired of it. But that's huge opportunity to me. That's when you take all that great technology and you figure out how to do different things with it, right? Like what we're doing, okay? We're deciding to buy 100% traceable fruit from growers we know by name and doing the simple blends that people drink every day with only a few ingredients per bottle, but do it the freshest anybody's ever had. And since it's never pasteurized, there's zero loss of nutritional value and no added ingredients. So we're taking that same technology into a different segment of the market. And we're able to do that cost effectively. I do agree with you. I think it might have hit its ceiling in certain areas, but now it's time for us to think outside the box and innovate and leverage the technology in sort of possible, I hate to say mass market, but more of a mainstream middle America sort of approach. You know, like why can't middle America have some cold pressed fresh squeezed cranberry juice for $2.99 a bottle? if we're buying direct from the grower, the cooperative, and just kind of doing it like that. So again, to me, the technology as a very critical engineer, I guess, and foodie, it blows my mind every day to this day. I think it's got a lot of legs. And I think it's the industry's responsibility to figure out how we can leverage that amazing technology to bring better, fresher, safer foods to people. Because there's no doubt in my mind that technology does bring, if you want fresh, the technology brings much more higher nutrient, fresh tasting, fresh smelling products to people safely. And it's still so new though. You know what I mean? It's still so new. There's a long way to go. Yeah, there's some downsides. There's downsides to everything, but it hasn't affected me at all. We're a craft product. It takes longer to make our stuff. That's all there is to it. Same thing happened with beer. I think, you know, maybe when the first IPA came out, you know, people might say, I mean, how long are they going to last? How long are IPAs going to last? As an innovator and a manufacturer as well too, I think it's totally our responsibility to keep this segment alive and keep really cool things going. I mean, you guys see it all the time too, so there's great products coming up left and right as a result of the industry. I mean, nobody's even really touched dairy yet with HPP. Not easy, that's why. But I mean, there's so much open space there.
[00:47:43] Ray Latif: Well, I guess at that point, it's going to take, you know, a lot of hand-in-hand kind of cooperation with regulators to make sure that the product is safe when it gets out there.
[00:47:52] Natural Products: You just hit the nail on the head. And so think about this for a second, too. HPP in itself The tolling aspect of HPP, meaning, you know, there's, there's folks that have had a great business and we utilize some of them too. It's a great business where they have bought HPP machines and they'll put, you know, if you came to them with 10 bottles, like, Hey, this is Ray's iced tea, you know, they've got a new brand coming out, super slick iced tea. And you gave them 10 bottles. He'd charge you a 50 bucks and put those bottles through the machine. So now guess what? All of a sudden Ray's beverage guy, he's got a really good product. That's probably safe. and probably going to last for 60 to 90 days. So as amazing as the equipment is, it's also made it very easy for a lot of brands to kind of pop up. Now, a lot of those are probably been really good, but let's start thinking about food safety and consistency and where really are they made and are these people just using HPP as an insurance policy because it's not an insurance policy, you know, but look at it like that perspective too. And that's really what, what the technology has done too. So you gotta, you gotta kind of watch it on that. Yeah. So that's why I think a lot of people will say, wow, there's been so many entrants in HPP. What's going on? Well, I'll say on top of what I just said, you know, let's use it in different ways and get into different segments of the market. And let's also see, you know, who's around in five to 10 years and who can really take this and make a real great brand out of it. A real true lifestyle brand and sort of nudge, you know, the definition of what, what a juice is. We'll see what happens, you know.
[00:49:17] Ray Latif: Cool. Mic.
[00:49:18] Natural Products: Microphone slam. What's that? Microphone slam.
[00:49:21] Ray Latif: There you go. Mic out. There you go. Thanks so much for having me here. You're always really welcoming to us and we really, really appreciate it. I think you guys are doing some amazing stuff here. I look forward to seeing where it goes in the future.
[00:49:34] Natural Products: Feeling mutual, you guys. Feeling mutual.
[00:49:35] Ray Latif: Great. Lots of love. Thanks a lot. Thank you. When I took a tour of the juicery this time around, it was cool to see the new equipment that they've put in there. They had some interesting extraction devices that Mike himself built. He was a chef and an engineer. I think his background at Northeastern, his training was as an engineer. And it was cool to see some of their pineapple juicing equipment and their orange juicing equipment. He is deep in that company. I mean, like I saw when I was there, just, you know, regular people off the line come up to him and talk to him with, you know, sort of everyday kind of questions and problems. And it speaks to the entrepreneur being everything and having to be everyone at their company. And Mike's doing all of it.
[00:50:22] Jon Landis: That's how I see a lot of these people be successful in this industry. I mean, you want to run a company and you got to bring in new people to handle jobs. You better understand the ins and outs of that jobs better than anyone before you can hire someone to do it. So, you know, it's good, good lesson there.
[00:50:37] John Craven: Well, last time we were down there, he was definitely like a kid in a candy store. We were walking around his factory, but he also, you know, I think he was serving us cocktails inside his facility with the right bar juice at like 10 o'clock in the morning.
[00:50:52] Ray Latif: Was it 10 o'clock in the morning?
[00:50:54] John Craven: I think so, because I remember having lunch at the end of that, you know, sort of visit there, and, you know, I guess things got a little blurry for you, but I, you know, was your driver back to Boston, so. This is true.
[00:51:05] Ray Latif: You know, I don't recall that, so it might have truly been blurry for me.
[00:51:09] Jon Landis: Work hard, play hard. Yeah. Indeed. Something like that.
[00:51:11] Ray Latif: Sort of kind of what the design... These segues are just... You're laying them out for me, I'm knocking them down. They're totally scripted. We planned these for weeks. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's cool to hear about what the design team does and what they drink, and you're going to hear all about that right now.
[00:51:26] Jon Landis: All right, listeners, I am in a room with one of my favorite teams here at BevNET. Honestly, workhorses, the design team. I love these guys, and I'm very excited to have an opportunity to introduce them to you. We have Nate, Nate Brescia, our staff photographer. We have Aaron Willette, who is our animator extraordinaire, and Matt Kennedy, our creative director. Matt, how does it feel to run a team like this? Good. Surrounded by good people, so it makes life easy. Yeah, absolutely. So I want to start with you, Matt, since you actually prepared some answers here and you're looking at them. What would people, our listeners, our readers, what kind of outward-facing work are you doing that they would recognize?
[00:52:08] John Craven: Obviously BevNET Magazine, all the conference graphics. So anybody that's been to BevNET Live knows the number of PowerPoint presentations that are created in-house, anything that you see on the walls, as well as daily site graphics.
[00:52:24] Jon Landis: And you do those big stage banners at the events too, right? I do do the big stage banners, yes. Is that always like a smooth process?
[00:52:32] John Craven: No, it's never a smooth process. Two years ago, we ended up in the bowels. You were one of the people, you were driving the minivan, one of the people who ended up in the bowels of the San Diego airport. at, I think it was 10 o'clock at night, right before the event. The banner was delayed by FedEx in Tennessee due to weather. And we showed up at the airport at the guard shack with a small piece of paper and my handwritten note, and I tried to pass it off to the security guard like, yeah, it's totally official. It's a work order. It's a work order. Do you have the work order? Yeah, right here. Yeah, I've got this piece of paper that I wrote in pencil. But yeah, three of us watched it come off the FedEx airplane. They walked it into the building, scanned it in, handed it to us, and away we went. So that was a good one. This year at Brewbound, let me preface this by saying I made OI aware of the mistake before anything happened, before the event happened. put the banner up and OI's tagline, the first word is honest, but somehow along the way we lost an H. I don't think anybody noticed, but we hand printed and cut out the letter H and stuck it up on the banner and the show went on. I don't think anybody was much the wiser.
[00:53:54] Jon Landis: I was, and I think I reminded you every time I saw you all day.
[00:54:00] SPEAKER_??: You did.
[00:54:01] Jon Landis: Aaron is our animation guy obviously you do a lot of the video stuff is there any stuff like behind the scenes here that you know you do that you're responsible for that people wouldn't expect?
[00:54:11] Ray Latif: Before Nate got here, I did pretty much all the photography, but it certainly wasn't as good as what Nate's doing now. That's pretty much the only thing that I was doing before this, I'd say, that wasn't assisting what Matt's doing. Yeah. My primary role is basically just animation.
[00:54:26] Jon Landis: Right. And you do some work on the magazine. Sure, yeah. We have actually Daria out there working away right now. Cause we only have three microphones for you guys, but she's taking care of a lot of the, uh, the website images now. And, but you guys really traditionally have been doing that for the last, what, like seven years? Easy on me. Sorry. Again, Aaron, you've been here with five. Yeah. And Nate, you're one of the newest guys here, and you're a photographer by trade. What do you feel about the photography that we have you doing? Do you find it engaging? Is it fun?
[00:55:01] Michel Boissy: Is it interesting? I mean, it's certainly challenging. Before this, I was shooting a little bit easier stuff. I was doing dinnerware. But these bottles and cans are difficult.
[00:55:10] Jon Landis: But you constantly amaze me in that studio that we have of being able to, you know, being able to get these high resolution photos. And I often see photos of beverages that we take, you take, we take, that you take here that look better than some of the stuff that I see out there in marketing that, that some of these brands are using. It really blows my mind. Is it, is it difficult for you to, try to do something different every time? Or do you have like a standard that you're trying to meet with everything? Is that what's difficult?
[00:55:42] Michel Boissy: I mean, I have setups and techniques that I'll sort of start with that help speed things up a little bit, perfect as time goes on. I mean, some of the stuff that I was just looking at, stuff that I was taking my first couple of weeks here, and it was, you know, not at all the same. I'm sort of embarrassed at it, actually.
[00:55:57] Jon Landis: Which do you enjoy more, the photo booth stuff or the social media stuff?
[00:56:01] Michel Boissy: The photo booth, meaning the silhouetted shots? Yeah. I don't think either. I mean, you can get a little more creative with the more Instagram-y social stuff, but I also really like the very technical, detail-oriented silhouette kind of style, where everything has to be absolutely perfect. The social, you can kind of make it a little more stylized. You can have a hard shadow or do something creative, but everything has to be absolutely, you know, perfect on the silos.
[00:56:26] Jon Landis: Again, I'm a huge fan of the work that you're doing. And you too, Aaron, with the videos, the best of the videos that we show on online, everything that we have. Oftentimes when I'm talking to people, they ask us, you know, like, what company do we use for that stuff? And I'm like, no, we just got a guy.
[00:56:44] John Craven: Yeah, I've experienced that a lot at BepNet Live, too. People ask us, who does the work for us? And they're in disbelief. And we're like, no, man, we do it. We do it all. Aaron does it.
[00:56:55] Howard Telford: He does it.
[00:56:55] John Craven: Aaron does the animations. But in general, yeah, everything that you see from BepNet comes from the four of us now.
[00:57:03] Jon Landis: Right. With Daria included as well.
[00:57:06] John Craven: For the longest time, it was... I've been here 11 years. So at first, it was just me doing everything. And that's when everything was really ugly. And then Aaron came around, what was it, five years ago? So that was good. And Nate's obviously upped the photo game. And Daria's just cranking away and taking stuff off our plate. And that's going to lead to some exciting changes in the way BevNET looks and feels.
[00:57:32] Jon Landis: Some new stuff with our new CMO.
[00:57:34] John Craven: I think so, yeah. Yeah, I think people can expect a new, better, more streamlined user experience across all the sites pretty soon. Another thing that I'm excited about is a focus on packaging and design. Obviously, we've always had photos of products and there's reviews that include packaging, but There's going to be more focus put on the small things that are on the package that a lot of people like ourselves put a lot of time and effort to that we've glanced over over the years. So I think that's going to be fun.
[00:58:11] Jon Landis: Awesome. Like I said, one of my favorite departments here just because you guys are so much fun. Aaron, we got our motorcycle license together. Yes. And bought motorcycles together. Hopefully we'll be riding them together soon if it stops snowing here this year. So I guess let's turn it to some products that you guys are drinking here now. You're the designers. I'm curious to know what stands out to you and what you drink and what you like and what you look at. I'm going to go with Matt again because he's prepared and you guys can take another moment to think about it.
[00:58:44] John Craven: This wasn't what I prepared, but I just thought about what I actually buy out of the grocery store. And one of the few things I buy these days is Watermelon water, because it's like summer in a bottle. And their packaging is just freaking incredible. But what I'm drinking now, though, is Hay Day Cold Brew Coffee.
[00:59:03] Jon Landis: That's a very new product. It was just launched at Expo West. I've actually known these guys for a couple of years as they've been trying to figure it out. But I had not seen it until I saw it at Expo. And all they told me was, you're going to love it. It looks like craft beer. And what do you think? Did they get that?
[00:59:20] John Craven: I don't know that they got craft beer, but they've got a retro vintage feel.
[00:59:26] Jon Landis: Yeah.
[00:59:27] John Craven: I think they nailed it. It's awesome.
[00:59:29] Jon Landis: Nate, what do you got there? That's something we just got in after Expo also.
[00:59:34] Michel Boissy: Yeah, I've got the Dr. D's Delicious Water Kefir. I still don't know how to say it. You've told me a couple of times. It surprised me, I guess. I didn't expect it to be a water, but that's only because I don't know what kefir is. It looks kind of like a kombucha, but it's growing on me, I guess. Just I had some maple water earlier today, and when I first got it, I was not that into it. And then by the end, I was, I was into it. The maple water. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. The water stuff never jumps at me at first. It's always just too water. And then by the end, I kind of like how mellow it is.
[01:00:04] Jon Landis: Do you drink water?
[01:00:05] Michel Boissy: Yes.
[01:00:05] Jon Landis: Yeah. I mean, like you're a runner, too.
[01:00:07] Michel Boissy: We should say that. But I'm getting a bottled drink, and I guess I expect more flavor, yeah, because I'm not used to buying waters.
[01:00:14] Jon Landis: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, totally. You just get it out of the tap. Well, what do you think about their, that's actually one of their co-founders there, Stu, in a hat there. I know you got the lemon one. It's a little bit hard to see, but it's a guy with a mustache and a bowler hat, Dr. D. What about them? I don't know. Just seeing what your thoughts were on the way that they're portraying their brand. You've been thrown feet to the fire. We've shown you how many brands in the months that you've been here, because you've taken pictures of literally every product that comes in this office.
[01:00:44] Michel Boissy: Yeah. I mean, I actually photographed these today. And I remember them being, I mean, just even just looking at this one, it's sort of hard to make out a little bit, just like even in natural light, what's going on, the yellow. I remember them being a little hard to make out, but I don't know. I mean, it's kind of a cool look. I remember seeing them at Expo West and kind of thinking they were cool and wanted to try it, really, based on the image. So I think they're doing that right.
[01:01:05] Jon Landis: That's all you can ask for, right, right? Aaron, what do you got? I know you drink Red Bull like every day that you're here. No. No. I guess I do. Yeah, you kind of do. I got to wake up early to get down here. I know. Yeah, that's true.
[01:01:17] Ray Latif: I grabbed the wrong one, but what I've been drinking lately is the Harmless Harvest Probiotic. Oh yeah?
[01:01:23] Jon Landis: Yeah, huge fan.
[01:01:23] Natural Products: You like that stuff?
[01:01:24] Ray Latif: Huge fan, because I don't really like coconut water that much, but it's like the first coconut flavored drink that's really good. Yeah? Yeah. I like the packaging too. It's pretty clean, simple. But I have another drink here that's also really good.
[01:01:39] Jon Landis: Yeah?
[01:01:40] Ray Latif: Happy Tree. The new maple water is good. It's refreshing. Yeah. I'm from the North, so it tastes good to me.
[01:01:46] Jon Landis: All right. Well, let me ask you guys before we leave, you know, appreciate your thoughts on the beverages that we receive, but what are we, what are we excited most about, like individually, the future of design here or something that you're working on or would like to be working on a little bit more? What are you reaching towards? Have you got any goals or something that you want to be putting out there or anything new that we should be looking for? Aaron, you're looking forward to getting more down and dirty in these animations now that you have some more time. you're doing less of the photography because we got Nate here.
[01:02:15] Ray Latif: I guess a big thing would be sort of like enhanced visual experience at the events. That's something that I don't really know a lot about at the moment, but we're sort of looking into possibilities to make it a little bit more visually appealing. Awesome.
[01:02:29] Jon Landis: Yeah. And Nate, you haven't been here very long and I know you're still like just trying to stay on top of everything here, but like, is there anything that you're looking forward to? Anything you're excited about in the future?
[01:02:38] Michel Boissy: I mean, I'm looking forward to getting a little more involved with the the magazine. Mm-hmm Just the last cover and that was a lot of fun seeing it up on the front Yeah, I don't know a little more involved in some of the lifestyle pictures making them more fantastic.
[01:02:51] Jon Landis: I don't know Yeah, getting in print man. That's like that's exciting. I mean, I I wish I could do something for the magazine I always am jealous of these writers when they get a cover story and I'm like, oh dude I would have like framed in my office or something.
[01:03:04] SPEAKER_??: I
[01:03:04] John Craven: Yeah, I'm excited about the new people. I'm excited about Nate, obviously. If you haven't guessed, we can't speak highly enough of his work. And I'm excited to have Mike on board to give us some more direction with where we take the brands, injecting a little bit of personality into the brands. To have Daria here is going to be great. Just another set of hands helping to design. We've got three brands between Nosh, Brewbound, and BevNET, and that's three sites. That's, what is it, two, four, six events a year at least. So there's a lot going on. I'm excited to have more hands and more people to help do it. It's going to give us the ability to, as Aaron said, enhance the experience of people not only at our events, but also the user experience on our sites. I'm just looking forward to having a cleaner, more approachable, and straightforward user experience.
[01:04:02] Jon Landis: Right on. Well, anyways, guys, I'm glad to have you join me today. Really appreciate you giving some insight into our audience as to what goes on behind the scenes with the design team, because I'm astounded every single day by what you guys were able to put together. So keep up the killer work, and let's get back to it, I guess. Thanks for having us, mister.
[01:04:22] Ray Latif: You got it. You know, Jon Landis talked about this earlier. We have a lot of respect as a company and, you know, to a man, nothing but amazing things to say about the design team. You know, we put those guys through a ringer and we put them through hell and they always come out with some extraordinary stuff. And, you know, as if you've been an attendee at DevNet Live or a viewer of the live stream, you've seen their work, you've read their stuff in the magazine. It's been pretty impressive and we're extremely lucky to have Matt, Aaron, Nate and Daria.
[01:04:51] Jon Landis: And pretty soon, you know, with the, the advancements that are going on in here internally, man, it's going to be their time to shine. And I'm really, really pumped for those guys.
[01:05:00] Ray Latif: They've already shined.
[01:05:01] Jon Landis: Well, I'm just saying, you know, we're going to be putting it out in the forefront. Indeed, indeed. And Matt is also, we got to give them props for being our bar tech. Hey, what about me? I helped too. What are you talking about?
[01:05:13] Ray Latif: You're referring to, you're referring to like hooking up the kegs to our local bar.
[01:05:18] John Craven: This shows his level of knowledge. Matt Kenney and I built the office bar. This is true.
[01:05:22] Jon Landis: Well, I know, but Matt's the guy who's always fixing it, cleaning it, linking things up and handling all that stuff.
[01:05:29] John Craven: Same here, same here.
[01:05:31] Ray Latif: He does a little more than I do. It's a fun side project. It is. It is. And this has been a fun podcast. So once again, any last thoughts for you guys before I sign off? Thirsty. Thirsty? Thirsty Buddha? Ah, you like that? See, I just threw one out. Nice call out to our friends at Thirsty Buddha. Anyway. Neighbors to the North. Neighbors to the North, indeed. Thanks so much for listening to this edition of the BebNet podcast. I really appreciate it. Once again, questions, comments, concerns, criticisms, please send them to podcast at bebnet.com. We'll read them all. We'll respond to them all as quickly as we can and hope to hear from you soon.
