Core Values Create Category Leaders. Just Ask Vive Organic.

November 23, 2021

J.R. Simich, co-founder of leading wellness shot brand Vive Organic, spoke about why the company’s consistent focus has been critical to its development, how staying on message helped land a long-term partnership with Whole Foods, the impact of its creative and efficient trade show strategy and why aligning with founders of like-minded brands has benefited Vive’s ability to land new distribution and retail placement.

Raise your hand if you bought a wellness/functional juice shot in the last 18 months. We’re guessing more than a few hands went up, and it’s not surprising. Demand for the products, often formulated with immunity-boosting ingredients such as turmeric, ginger and elderberry, surged during the pandemic. As a result, the category, which was once composed of a handful of brands sold at natural grocers, has attracted a growing number of upstart and established companies to the space. Mainstream retailers have also taken note and many have incorporated juice shots into their cooler sets. Despite booming demand and an increasingly competitive landscape, pioneering wellness shot brand Vive Organic has remained consistent in its focus, according to co-founder JR Simich. Adherence to the brand’s core values, which include a commitment to high quality ingredients and consumer-driven innovation, helped drive Vive to prominence in the natural channel and, later, to nationwide distribution at mainstream retailers including Safeway, Target, CVS and Walmart. In an interview featured in this episode, Simich spoke about how Vive has kept its focus and why it has been so important to the brand’s development. He also discussed his role among the company’s three founders, why staying on message helped land a long-term partnership with Whole Foods, the impact of its creative and efficient trade show strategy and why aligning with founders of like-minded brands has benefited Vive’s ability to land new distribution and retail placement.

In this Episode

0:39: Interview: J.R. Simich, Co-Founder, Vive Organic — Simich spoke with Taste Radio editor Ray Latif about how he and his co-founders assessed the opportunity for a wellness shot brand, how Vive enhanced its test-and-learn sales strategy and why passion played a key factor in the company’s initial placement at Whole Foods. He also explained how a trade show strategy built on the brand’s recovery benefits helped win over key figures in the industry, how the company’s product line has evolved and how Vive attempts to educate consumers about esoteric ingredients. Later, he explained how sharing notes with other natural brand founders provided important insights about mainstream retailers, his level of concern that strategic companies like Coca-Cola and Pepsico are divesting from refrigerated brands and his perspective on growing competition in the wellness shot category.

Also Mentioned

Vive Organic, FloWater, Little West, Goodmylk, Later Days Coffee Co., Better Booch, K Tonic Kombucha

Note: Transcripts are automatically generated and may contain inaccuracies and spelling errors.

[00:00:10] Ray Latif: Hey folks, I'm Ray Latif, and you're listening to the number one podcast for the food and beverage industry, Taste Radio. This episode features an interview with J.R. Simich, the co-founder of leading wellness shot brand, Vive Organic. Just a reminder to our listeners, if you like what you hear on Taste Radio, please share the podcast with friends and colleagues. And of course, we would love it if you could review us on the Apple Podcasts app or your listening platform of choice. Raise your hand if you've bought a wellness or functional juice shot in the last 18 months. I'm guessing more than a few hands went up, and it's not a surprise. Demand for these mini beverages, often loaded with ingredients promoted for their immunity-boosting function, such as turmeric, ginger, and elderberry, surged during the pandemic. The category, once composed of a handful of products, has attracted a growing number of brands to the space, along with new retailers seeking to meet the evolving needs of their consumers. Despite booming demand and an increasingly competitive landscape, the focus for pioneering wellness shot brand Vive Organic has remained constant, according to co-founder J.R. Simich. Driven by its core values, which include a commitment to high-quality ingredients and consumer-driven innovation, are what brought Vive to prominence, and with it, nationwide distribution at retailers including Whole Foods, Safeway, Target, CVS, and Walmart. In the following interview, I spoke with JR about Vive's consistent focus and why it's been so important to the brand's development. We also discussed his role among the company's three co-founders, why staying on message helped land a long-term partnership with Whole Foods, the impact of a creative and efficient trade show strategy on growth, and why aligning with founders of like-minded brands has benefited Vive's ability to land new distribution and retail placement. Hey folks, it's Ray with Taste Radio. Right now I'm really happy to be joined by J.R. Simich, who's one of the co-founders of Vive Organic. J.R., so great to see you. What's going on, Ray?

[00:02:18] J.R. Simich: I'm so excited to be on the show. I'm a big fan, so this is kind of a long time coming and I'm excited to sit down today.

[00:02:26] Ray Latif: I am very excited that you're with us as well. Not the least of which because you sent me some of your incredible shots. This has been one of the brands that has been stocked in my refrigerator for the past 18 months. It is a pandemic savior for me. Every time I might feel like I'm a little rundown, might have a little bit of a sniffle. And it's like, boom, immediately go to one of your shots. And I'm sure I'm not the only one. Vive Organic has just done wonders in terms of making people feel better. That's not something that every brand can say. And I thank you guys for that. And I'm sure there's the legions of your fans do as well.

[00:03:08] J.R. Simich: That feels really good coming from you, Ray. I know you were one of the first from the team that I met at Expo West back way back when. So all these years later and we're in your fridge means a lot. So thank you for that.

[00:03:21] Ray Latif: You touched on the fact that we met a few years ago when you first launched. We actually had your co-founder, Wyatt Taubman on Taste Radio about three years ago, talking about the fundraising process. And he talked a bit about the launch of Vive and how the brand was developed. But for folks who might've missed that episode, talk about the initial inspiration behind the brand, what it meant to launch a juice shot brand, a functional juice shot brand like yours.

[00:03:50] J.R. Simich: Yeah, and I think it's really fitting that you had Wyatt on the show first. And being that he really had this experience while traveling, we were doing some stuff with Flowwater, which was Wyatt's previous brand. I was helping on sales and the trade show grind and building a brand, it takes a lot on the body. And he was in Florida, wasn't feeling well at an event. He came across a local vendor that was selling a ginger and turmeric shot on ice. It was just a total homemade formula. Not only was he always a big believer in superfoods, he was always sending you the latest thing, but he grew up in Kauai. And he'd never seen anything as a super concentrated form and was just blown away by the boost that he felt. I remember getting that first text from him. And we started doing some market research. And he was diving really into the total opportunity and the size of the opportunity. And as a big thinker, In around 2015, he sat me down and had the idea and I was super drawn in because I was a big believer in superfoods. But from my previous experiences as a founder, I knew that people was really important thing. It's this product, people, placement, I believe. He is just such a good person and I really wanted to partner with good people. That's how Kyle, Wyatt, and myself came together in 2015. Vibe was born and we didn't have the name of the brand yet, but we had this idea and this concept of those super concentrated shots. It's a little bit of the light bulb moment, a little peek behind the curtains, which I know Wyatt went through in the first show, but I decided to recap right there.

[00:05:32] Ray Latif: Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things that Wyatt really talked about was testing and learning, testing and learning, trying the product, trying the brand in places where he thought, where you guys thought the brand could succeed and scale. I'd love to hear about your specific role in that testing process. How did you work on sell through? How did you work on not just introducing the brand, but making sure that it would do well in these places? Because I think you can throw anything at the wall and just hope it sticks. But there's also a process of helping it to stick on the wall, right?

[00:06:07] J.R. Simich: Yeah. 100%. And I think that's why why it originally came to me, the background in brand building and its sales. And what I saw was an opportunity to take an amazing product and get it out into the right placements around the city. And we took a really focused approach launching SoCal primarily. And from my experience building brands in the past, I knew that the testing and learning was important, but I really knew that we need to find a couple key partnerships and build these partnerships to be very long term. So I was kind of long term thinking about how this was going to be done. And I think as a lot of brands did, and have continued to do is pick some of those kind of winning channels and winning partners. For me, I had my eyes set on Whole Foods, had my eyes set on the trade shows and building the brand through trade shows within the industry, and then also up and down the streets and just really growing it organically and taking a focused approach on where do I want the brand to shine through and for people to find it. So that's the first few years I was really focused on sales. It was all I was doing. If you look at what we were all doing together with Wyatt, corporate governance and investing and getting the right people around the table and all the amazing things he does. And Kyle's focused on operations and really creating the product, our sourcing story with the farms. And I was just sales. And that was my job was to get out there, help with velocity, getting it to sell. And some of the different formulas that we use at Vive were formulas that I learned from different industries and brands, and also just talking to other brands and seeing what was working. So I would love to go into the Whole Foods partnership story, if you'd be open to that. Yeah, absolutely. We looked at how we first created, which was really looking at a win-win partnership. We looked at Whole Foods core values and they believe in this win-win partnership approach. So getting onto the shelf was an interesting story. We started showing up at Whole Foods and by we, I mean myself because I was the only one doing sales and I was coming at five in the morning. And I would help staff shelf to learn the business, learn their pain points, learn what happens and how refrigerated product moves onto the shelves and into the different parts of the store. So learning through helping. And I had connected with these team leaders and let them know that we work currently in Whole Foods. This was a shock to them to see me showing up early in the morning, learning their business and helping. And I'm kept selling the narrative that one day we will be partners. And this volunteer work that I'm doing, if you will, is going to help me learn the business to then present a meaningful win-win partnership. So then fast forward, we connected to the local partnership program with, at the time, the local buyer, Monica Coyle, and she really kind of saw that I would call it passion for the products. And I was talking in those original meetings about training programs that I wanted to develop, to tell people about the shots, to show how these are going to help people, how the shots are going to be a vehicle to positivity through health, through wellness, everything that we were about on our mission. I think she saw that in us and we came through on those promises. We started with just five stores and we took the same tactical approach we did on the five as we did on all of them, which was really just, I would call it authenticity and training on what's in the shots, why we were different than what was out there. I think that really gave us a unique partnership approach and an advantage in the market because we were a whole body item that was going up against powders, supplements, all these different products that you can take. At that time, shots were really new, so we were explaining what they were, why they were good for you, how they worked, and why Vive was a shot to take.

[00:10:13] Ray Latif: Yeah, to be clear to our audience, the whole body section of Whole Foods, as you might know, is not in the cooler space. It's not those end caps. It's not next to cold press juices. You have to go and find these shots if you want them. Were you in the aisles? Were you physically there talking to customers about Vive? Was it that kind of influence? 100%. Yeah.

[00:10:35] J.R. Simich: 100% much like the Kind story of where you read that book and early on, he's believing so much in demos. We were demoing on the show floor, telling every single person we could about the product and why they should try it. And we were also taking that approach with the store staff and everybody that was working at Whole Foods. And not just in Whole Body, but on the grocery side of the business. everyone at the front end and really taking a team approach to the business.

[00:11:07] Ray Latif: I want to talk about your ingredients in a second, your formulation, because it's top notch. But you said something earlier about trade shows. And I know trade show season is anything but normal right now. Yeah, but it's coming back. It is coming back. But one of the things you mentioned the last time we spoke was that the brand was built at trade shows. That's not necessarily something that I think a lot of brands can say. I think trade shows are helpful. getting the word out there about your brand, but not necessarily getting into the retailers that you want to get into meeting distributors and really helping to scale. It feels like trade shows are a good introduction versus a way to scale, right?

[00:11:46] J.R. Simich: I agree with you. I think it was a really important recipe in our soup. And we took every show as an opportunity to build the brand. We knew the product was special. And by strategizing on how we could help make an impact on the folks that were at the show, that was going to be really true to our mission, which is to spark the journey for people. And so we focused on everyone at the show. It's not just the buyers, but lots of this was just simply thinking of creative ways to get the product in folks' hands. I remember we built this shot ski in our friend's garage, which we remember from college, but we converted it into a healthy shot ski. And we painted it yellow. And we had all of our industry friends coming by and taking shots out of it. And it was just a fun, interactive way for people to take a healthy shot. And we noticed that everyone was coming by in the mornings. It was really a morning thing after a long night at a show. So we then strategized on morning Coffee Co. And it was collaborating with other brands. And we would then flyer all of the aisles come by for Coffee Co in the morning. And we would have everyone come by and we would take shots, drink coffee with local roasters, and have these collaborations with brands. And it was just like a small little field team hitting the aisles promoting a wellness hour in the morning. It was a thinking of... We weren't trying to get the big whale customer over to where we were. We were just trying to create a good energy and really get the shots out to as many people as we could at the show. And as you know, it's hard as all the aisles lock and people are going through. You could maybe never come by our booth. But if we create the event, it was the idea to allow more shots to get into people's hands. And that strategy, I think, worked well for us. It was a I'm a big believer in industry shows and they've been well good for us. So we'll continue to invest in them in the future when they come back.

[00:13:44] Ray Latif: Yeah, it seems like you can certainly touch more people if you are walking the show floor, if you have a team of folks walking the show floor. That being said, was your trade show budget significantly higher than other brands of similar size? Or was it that you were just more efficient with the money and where it was going?

[00:14:00] J.R. Simich: Yeah, we were really scrappy. I would say it might have even been less. We were investing a lot in the product to create as much of the product. Our product is not cheap to create. So we're making sure we're creating enough shots to hand them out and to sample. At that time, we were sampling So it wasn't, we didn't have a big trade show budget. What we had was experience on how to run trade shows in a scrappy way and utilize our team resources and utilize what we would have on deck to bring to the show. So I wouldn't say it was a big budget at all.

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[00:15:22] Ray Latif: One of the, I guess, most divisive parts of shots is the notion that they're not going to taste good. People know there's going to be a functional benefit to shots, but the taste is something that will keep people away. So how do you meet people in a way that will give them the taste that they're looking for or at least give a very palatable taste with the kind of functional benefit that seemingly everyone wants. And as you're answering, I'm going to answer my own question right now by drinking one of these shots. But please go ahead, JR.

[00:15:56] J.R. Simich: Awesome. I'll have one with you. I'm going to sample. We'll do a little cheers. It tastes great.

[00:16:02] Ray Latif: The OG, the Vive Organic Immunity Boost.

[00:16:06] J.R. Simich: So you're taking the og, which I believe to be a medium bold. If you think of it on the scale of wellness shots, you have bold, which is going to really kind of light you up. You're going to feel it. It's going to burn. Now the og is a medium bold. So it's a good way to introduce people to wellness shots. It has a very high dose of ginger, turmeric, fresh pressed pineapple, echinacea, black pepper, and the like synergistic blend of those ingredients, which we work on with our formulation team, our three doctors. And plus the quality ingredients. I think that's key. We're only sourcing from high quality farms, the same small organic farms that we've been working from since day one. So you taste that quality and then the medium bowls, it hits you, but it's smooth, I would say.

[00:16:53] Ray Latif: Yeah, absolutely. Well, cheers, JR. Cheers. There is a burn for sure from the ginger, but it's really sippable. It's not something that you're gonna be like, oh, I can't drink this, or I don't like the flavor. I mean, the first ingredient here is pineapple juice. The next thing is ginger juice. Pineapple juice is a really easy drinking beverage. I mean, I don't think anyone's gonna disagree with me on that. So when you're crafting these formulations, how do you think about blending the two together again, there is a good sized part of the population is going to look at even this product that's the medium bold product and say, I don't know if this is for me. So how do you get the taste right for the masses, so to speak?

[00:17:36] J.R. Simich: So first, they're cold pressed, which preserves the freshness and the efficacy. So each shot is like featuring this pure dose of each super root ingredient. And then when you think of the formulation, we're really looking to where's the gaps in the market and how to create something with our doctor team that's just perfect as far as medium bold. So that was a lot of the testing we've done and formulated. We put so much work into each shot to go behind the scenes to create that flavor profile. it comes out on the other end when you're trying them. I think we have in line now 10 fresh, fresh wellness shots. Each of them offer an extremely effective immunity support. But what you're going to see is that they're also dynamically different. So We recently launched our Pure Boost line, which I have behind me, the Turmeric Pure Boost line and the Ginger Pure Boost. The Ginger Pure Boost is one of our most powerful shots, almost 60,000 milligrams of pure Peruvian ginger and the Turmeric 30,000 milligrams of pure Hawaiian turmeric. So they're just packed with that strong root that we're leading with. So excited about that line for sure. Have you tried the Ginger?

[00:18:49] Ray Latif: I love the ginger. This one is definitely not medium bold. This is bold for sure. That's bold for sure. The immunity boost is a good sort of, I don't want to call it a, you know, an introductory kind of shot, but it is essentially that. It's the kind of shot that people will try and then they'll move on to something like the 60,000 milligram ginger shot. And I used the word masses earlier in that this is a brand that has scaled to the mainstream. I think at the outset, you might be like, oh, this is only going to be in Whole Foods or Sprouts, but you see Vive Organic in CVS right now. And I think the question for a lot of folks listening would be, Well, how did you guys map this out? How did you strategize taking a brand that seemingly belongs or that started out in a very un-trafficked or low-trafficked area of Whole Foods into one that is one of the most trafficked retail stores, period, in a place like CBS?

[00:19:49] J.R. Simich: Yeah, so what's a complex one, but I'm going to try to do my best to give you a good kind of on scaling. So the early days, we knew that there was going to be a challenge with refrigeration, right? We're refrigerated beverage. We have coolers and all the trucks building a region. We learned so much about distribution and how to turn the faucet on, if you will, in a certain market. we really worked on being consultants with each customer. We worked a lot with other refrigerated brands. So this really helped us figure out distribution in key customers and key cities. We believe that rising tides rises all ships and partnered with juice brands like Little West, Good Milk here in Southern California, brands like Later Days Coffee Co recently, Better Booch with Jordan and Matt who was previously on their team. Tonic Kombucha, and Austin, we've been working with them. We really believe in that partnership beverage approach where we're collaborating and learning how to scale regionally. And that kind of approach gave us the data story and the opportunity to even walk into these meetings with, like you said, a CVS.

[00:21:04] Ray Latif: Derek, can I interrupt you there? When you say working with these brands, how do you mean working? How are you aligned with them?

[00:21:10] J.R. Simich: Okay, so if I'm going to be working with, let's say, Later Days Coffee, we're going to share notes, we're going to share how we're looking at the region, we're looking at our distributors that we have that are the same, their best-selling accounts, how we're going to work together and form a partnership. Because like I said, it's a rising tide that rises all ships. And it's a hard thing to do by yourself. So it's one of our key things is really learning from those around us and picking the brains of others, not only just in the industry, but retail partners and our broker partners and taking that kind of partnership approach.

[00:21:51] Ray Latif: And did you just reach out to the founders and say, hey, you know, we're from Vive Organic, you know, we would love to align with you?

[00:21:57] J.R. Simich: I mean, interesting enough, we met a lot of them at trade shows, you know, that's where we met a lot of them early on. Now it's different. So I'm picking up the phone a lot and making calls, but. Early on, it was at the shows. It was in Santa Monica Watrous BevNET Live. It was at the big national shows or even at little industry events. We would make a point to show up and see what would happen. I had a college professor tell me one time that the simple act of being there could change your life and the life of others for future generations to come. What he meant by that is there's a 7pm cocktail hour to go meet some people. You never know what's going to happen if you just show up. Who knows who you're going to meet, if it's a connection or some conversation you're going to have that could change the future of your organization or your personal future. So I was always a big believer of showing up at everything and still am. I think it's different right now, but I do see I'm excited to get back to some semblance of where we were before because I love that approach and I need that and so I've been missing that a lot lately so I'm excited for it.

[00:23:12] Ray Latif: Absolutely. I mean, I think just knowing people is a huge advantage in our industry. If you bump into people at a trade show, a few words here or there, it's just a good way to share notes sometimes. But the notes that you shared with other founders, as you were mentioning, sounds like it was pretty extensive. And it sounds like the kind of details that you got really helped you get into some of the retailers that you're now in. What did those notes look like? What questions were important for you to ask of those partners, of the brands that you were working with? Did they give you introductions to industry folks that could open doors for you?

[00:23:54] J.R. Simich: So I always like would kind of steer away from introductions, just because I know how I've been on the other side of that and know how that goes. But what was really valuable, and this is just my personal experience, was learning what was working and then also the challenges and how they were overcoming those challenges. I was like a lot like on your show, you're hearing a lot about failures and also success. So I'm kind of would be diving into both of those with other founders or other sales folks or other people on the teams. A lot of the times when I noticed it, it wasn't always founders, it was sometimes just folks on the teams that were out there and doing a lot of the brand building and connecting with them as well. The conversations with founders are super valuable, but I also found that conversations with just the teams just as valuable.

[00:24:51] Ray Latif: One of the things that's been challenging for a lot of brands in your space, refrigerated space that is, is that there's seemingly less of an interest among strategics to be involved in the refrigerated space. There's a lot of consolidation, things are becoming a lot more expensive. How are you guys addressing all the current challenges and future challenges that refrigerated brands like yours are facing?

[00:25:16] J.R. Simich: Yeah, it's a great question. And it's really, for us, it's diving super deep into our mission and our vision and really creating a brand that's going to live forever. And it's going to inspire people and it's going to be around for the long haul. So there's a lot. of planning and foundational building that it takes to make that happen. But I truly believe everyone on this five team is super bought in, in our mission and our vision. And just to kind of go over that with you, that's really to spark the wellness journey for everyone. So we want these shots to be that item that someone tries. they take a shot and they say, well, what else is out there in this world of health foods and beverage that can help me on my journey, right? So that will allow them to take a proactive approach to their wellness. And we want five to be that convenient and accessible and really everywhere to help people take that I would call it just a simple daily step towards their peak wellness. If we can do that and continue to do that every year, we're going to be in a really good spot.

[00:26:24] Ray Latif: That being said, you're going to reach more people if you're not refrigerated. And even though your mission, your goals and your focus is on being a very high quality, very great tasting brand, to achieve the ultimate goal, it seems like you need to be out of the cooler case. Is that a long term vision for the brand? Is that part of the long term vision for the brand?

[00:26:45] J.R. Simich: I mean, right now, we're just really focused on our wellness shots. And we're always looking at innovative ingredients and concepts. But right now, the focus remains on those powerful shots that help break the brand onto the market. We're going to continue to focus on that.

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[00:27:52] Ray Latif: You've touched on innovation a couple of times now, and while it's probably easy for most folks to understand that ginger and turmeric are going to be good for you, that echinacea is going to be good for you, all these ingredients in your immunity boost, elderberry, oil of oregano, cayenne pepper, all these ingredients that are included in your wellness rescue oil of oregano shot are a little bit more of a, it's a little bit more of a longer story for some consumers. So, While I understand the innovation that you're coming out with, you know, I've been in the beverage industry for 10 years, so I'm absorbing all this pretty easily. But for the average consumer that you're trying to reach, as you're trying to get more consumers to buy more of your products, how do you think about aligning education with innovation, especially in your business where a lot of esoteric ingredients might be really good for you, but really hard to explain?

[00:28:44] J.R. Simich: Well, that package that's come into your house is the perfect segue into this that you'll try. It's an unlabeled shot, but it's an extension of our peer-reviewed slide.

[00:28:54] Ray Latif: Okay.

[00:28:54] J.R. Simich: And it's an immunity C shot. You're going to be the first to try it outside of our team, one of them. And what you're going to see is that we're using a very well-known item, vitamin C, or I would just call it a function. and we're creating a pure way to deliver that. And so we have a few different tropical ingredients like camu camu and a particular cherry that are cold pressed and providing a high dose of that fresh vitamin C. That is now what you'll see when you try. We're thinking of it for the mainstream, right? It's amazing, like with turmeric, like with this shot, with the pure blue shot, When I'm just out in the market, and I remember in 2015 or 2016, when we were first launching, I was having to explain to the detail what a wellness shot was. All the way to what it does. Now, I'll sometimes catch myself going down that path. They're like, oh, turmeric shots. I take them all the time. And this is not, these are like people that you would not assume would be wellness shot consumers. So for myself, it gives me a lot of excitement to create these new products in the shot category, like you're going to try today.

[00:30:04] Ray Latif: JR, you talked about everyone knowing what a wellness shot was, or a lot of people knowing what a turmeric shot was. And I think it has been to the benefit of the entire G-Shot category to have more players, to have more competition in the space. And there's a lot of brands that have really benefited in a way, from the pandemic, and that people are looking for immunity, people are looking for functional benefits in the Ushot space. And Vive isn't the only brand on the block anymore, or isn't one of the only, you know, one or two brands that had only been out there five years ago. There's a large section of them in the store now, or at least there's a large amount of players. Is competition, has competition been good for you, or are you sort of fending off, you know, incomers and newcomers to the category all the time?

[00:30:47] J.R. Simich: So I think that increased competition in the space is how it really spurs forward. It's really bringing more consumers into the category, helping raise awareness around immunity, cold-pressed. And for us, we've seen just a huge growth in the category, up 139% around We're seeing increased interest in immunity with people wanting easy ways that they can just proactively take care of themselves. So I know the team is just really excited about that mindset shift that we're seeing. It's almost an increased awareness. And we're just focusing on ourselves. We have a potent product with the highest dose of ginger and turmeric on the market. We are needing to continue to create really strong and powerful shots. And I think, in the end, that when you try everything out there, hope that you can tell the passion that this team puts into these Little West. And I would hope that it comes through on not only on how it makes you feel, but on how it tastes and all of that.

[00:31:54] Ray Latif: Yeah, I certainly feel it. I think consumers that are new to the space are also looking at this from a pricing standpoint. And the shots, when they're not on promotion, are usually about $3.99, is that right, per shot?

[00:32:06] J.R. Simich: $349 to $399, right around there, it varies on every retailer.

[00:32:13] Ray Latif: When it comes to pricing, is there a way for you guys to get down to a price where you're at, say $2.52 on a everyday basis? I mean, is that something that is important for this brand and this category to grow? Or do you want to maintain that premium price point to go along with the premium ingredients and positioning that you already have? Will it hurt the brand, I guess is what I'm saying. Will it hurt the brand to bring the price point down, that everyday price point?

[00:32:39] J.R. Simich: I think that the internal conversation that we're having is really maintaining and continuing at where we are. And as you know, there's a, this is a premium product and we're seeing a lot of pressure on the supply chain all throughout everything. So as far as bringing the price down. I don't believe that will happen. As you see, it's naturally happening with retailers compressing and changing pricing. So you do have a very wide range where you'll see the shots on promotion, off promotion. But we're a premium product and we have a premium price.

[00:33:15] Ray Latif: JR, this has been a long journey for you, even though you've only been in the business for about five years, or at least been in the 2Shot business for five years. How are you maintaining? How are you hanging in there as a co-founder through it all and through a very difficult year?

[00:33:30] J.R. Simich: So, 2019, I had never traveled so much. I moved to Chicago, about 40 cities on business meetings, was really forced to dig deep on the wellness side of the business, just to sustain and just to keep up the life force that was needed to keep up with this industry and this category. And so the first thing was finding, for me, a community of like-minded people. So really networking with others that were either creating brands or brand building and then really picking their brains on what their health tips were to sustain. And I was almost like a basketball player. I love the NBA and follow some of the greats. And I know that they call others and I'd be calling on, what was your routine and really going into that side. And I picked up a lot from these conversations around using breathing exercises to boost immune system and hot saunas. And when I was going on, I would come to New York for a distributor launch and I would try to find the healthy vegan spot, and I'd go to the same spot every time to eat to keep myself well. Because it would be okay, now it's Friday to travel home for a quick turnaround to go to another city or another opportunity. So really, it sounds weird, but instead of on how I used to live. I going on long walks, spend doing odd things like go really kind of getting i of the city, but that I w I was staying out of situations that I felt would not boost myself for my next trip. And that really helped. And I learned a lot of that from other founders and sales folks that were having to travel a lot.

[00:35:24] Ray Latif: Well, it sounds like a lot of folks in our audience are going to take that to heart. I mean, investing in yourself as much as you're investing in the health of your brand is really, really important. JR, we're going to do this again because there's so much more we can talk about, I'm sure. But in the meantime, it's been so great sitting down with you today. Thank you so much for everything. And thank you very much for the shots that I have here and the ones that I'll be drinking soon.

[00:35:48] J.R. Simich: Yeah, it was a pleasure to be on the show. Let me know what you think of the new one. Super excited for you to try and we'll see you in Santa Monica in December.

[00:35:56] Ray Latif: Outstanding. Looking forward to it, my friend. Cheers. Cheers. That brings us to the end of this episode of Taste Radio. Thank you so much for listening and thanks to our guest, J.R. Simich. As always, for questions, comments, ideas for future podcasts, please send us an email to askattasteradio.com. On behalf of the entire Taste Radio team, thank you for listening, and we'll talk to you next time.