[00:00:10] Ray Latif: Hello, and thanks for tuning in to Taste Radio, the number one podcast for anyone building a business in food or beverage. I'm Ray Latif, the editor and producer of Taste Radio, and with my co-hosts for this episode, John Craven, Melissa Traverse, and Mike Schneider. Protein, fiber, collagen, pickles, These days, just about anything can come with an added benefit or limited edition twist. This week, we're looking at how functionality is moving deeper into the mainstream, as brands like Cloud, Doritos, and Smartfood add trendy ingredients to familiar snacks, and why authenticity matters more as brands make bigger promises. We'll also dig into a new study raising questions about avocado oil labeling and Grillo's increasingly wild world of brand collaborations. So our dear friend and colleague, Ken Sadowski, also known as the Beverage Whisperer, stopped by the office a few days ago and I recorded an interview with him that we featured this week on Taste Radio. I highly recommend that you listen to it. It's a great episode, an insight into the mind of a beverage investor, someone who's been doing this for a long time. So Ken was so kind to bring a bunch of beverages from literally all over the world to talk about during our conversation. Unfortunately, we didn't get to all of them, at least in that interview. But I figured, why don't I go into my grab bag and see what we've got that we didn't get a chance to talk about. Is Ken in there? Ken is not in here, unfortunately. But I mentioned London and he did bring some drinks from the UK to the office. And this one I'm holding in my hand is one called POSCA. P-O-S-C-A. It is a sports drink that comes in this 12 ounce slim can. Not only is it a sports drink, it's described as the OG sports drink.
[00:02:04] John Craven: Interesting.
[00:02:05] Ray Latif: Yeah.
[00:02:05] John Craven: Looks like a cocktail from here.
[00:02:07] Ray Latif: What makes it the OG? I don't know. It has zero grams of sugar. This is their pineapple variety. It does, to Mike's point, look a bit more like a canned cocktail than it does a sports drink.
[00:02:18] John Craven: At least for this market. Maybe over there it looks a little more sporty, but I don't know. It doesn't look like glucose aid.
[00:02:23] Melissa Traverse: It makes me think of the silver bullet, which won't slow you down.
[00:02:27] Ray Latif: I don't know how often how often those a sports drinks and cans Not What often. Yeah, unless it contains booze Super Lyte which we've mentioned on the podcast a number of times and is, of course, the alcoholic sports drink brand that is on fire today as well. So maybe, as you pointed out, Mike, we'll start to see more sports drinks in cans now that they're appearing as alcoholic products.
[00:02:54] John Craven: I mean, that feels like an interesting niche to have a sports drink in a can. It's not the first better for you, you know, better for you, better ingredients. alcoholic beverage we've seen in a can. I point to Goldilocks as another one of those that's making vodka drinks with better ingredients.
[00:03:14] Melissa Traverse: Would you drink an alcoholic sports drink when you're playing alcohol sports like beer pong or something?
[00:03:21] Mike Schneider: Pickleball. Darts.
[00:03:23] Melissa Traverse: So Posca has the ancient wisdom of red wine vinegar with the modern science of four key electrolytes to create Posca hydrate. Red wine vinegar.
[00:03:34] John Craven: You drink Super Lyte before your pickleball match and you're basically like drunken master.
[00:03:37] Melissa Traverse: Interesting.
[00:03:38] Ray Latif: One thing that we didn't sample much of during the conversation was protein drinks. It was strange because we did talk about protein, how protein is one of the biggest trends that's happening across CPG, but didn't see a lot of protein drinks. Good for us that we have protein chips here in the studio. Good for us. Yes. Good for us. Really good for us. Really good for us. Melissa, what kind of protein chips are these?
[00:04:02] Melissa Traverse: Yeah, so these are the cloud protein chips. I have here in front of me the buffalo, the sweet heat.
[00:04:08] John Craven: Wait, what?
[00:04:09] Melissa Traverse: Chips now? And the jalapeno. Yeah, I know. So they started with popcorn. They moved on to chips. Of course, we had Khloe Kardashian at Nosh Live this past year in Marina Del Rey. And I've tried the popcorn, but I haven't tried the chips. I thought maybe we should, should we crack the sweet
[00:04:25] Ray Latif: Yeah, let's crack them all open. Before we start to munch on these, I want to note something that Cloud, and if you're not familiar with Cloud, as Melissa pointed out, the Khloe Kardashian brand, spelled K-H-L-O-U-D, but this is Cloud Plus. This is a line extension for the brand because these not only contain protein, they also contain collagen. So protein chips plus collagen, 17 grams per serving. How many servings are there?
[00:04:51] Melissa Traverse: So 17 grams of protein per serving, two grams of collagen per serving. All right, let's see what these taste like.
[00:04:59] Ray Latif: I actually got a sneak peek of these. Maybe not the ones with collagen. I got a sneak peek of these at Expo West. CEO Jeff Rubenstein was so kind to share them with me. When I tasted these tortilla chips, I was like, wow, these are amazing. It doesn't taste like they've been jam packed with protein and are really stiff and unpalatable.
[00:05:21] Mike Schneider: Buffalo, I'm trying. Buffalo. Yeah, I feel like we ought to start Buffalo.
[00:05:24] Ray Latif: Uh-huh. You know, for folks... Don't crunch in these listeners' ears, folks.
[00:05:28] Melissa Traverse: No, no. That would be rude. Have you had the Quest protein chips, for example?
[00:05:33] Ray Latif: Yeah. Those are the OG protein chips.
[00:05:35] Melissa Traverse: I think those are the OG. And I think they're fine, but they have a lot of ingredients in them, and a lot of them aren't necessarily ones that you want to be eating all the time. The ingredient panel on these Cloud Plus chips, it's pretty simple. Pea protein, avocado oil. collagen, sugar, brown sugar, it's pretty clean and they are really nice and thin and have a good crunch.
[00:05:56] John Craven: They're words I can read until calcium carbonate. Oh, I Not What that is too.
[00:06:03] Ray Latif: Mike was so kind to alert us as to the launch of another protein chip hitting the market. And of course that's Doritos Protein. PepsiCo announced that they were going to launch functional varieties of some of the most well-known brands, including Smartfood, Smartfood Fiber, and Doritos, the Doritos Protein. I don't know if cloud being a little ahead of the game is going to make much of a difference. I don't know if people are actually going to buy Doritos Protein. I don't know if they give a crap about protein in a Doritos chip. I do know that. Clearly, brands are thinking ahead and that they're not resting on their laurels and they realize that functionality matters. But how do you get people to buy Not What you're selling?
[00:06:50] John Craven: Well, if the comments section are an indication on LinkedIn, then At least the comments that I saw, which was probably the first 10 to 15 of each was, hey, you're kind of slapping protein into a legacy product that isn't that good for you in the first place. And you're also slapping fiber. And the way that they have blasted it all over LinkedIn on the PepsiCo account is just that, hey, we're adding protein and fiber to you know, some of the products that you love the best, and it happens to be protein and Doritos and fiber and smart food, popcorn, and the comment section's kind of damning, but... I mean, I still like Doritos, and there's time and a place for them.
[00:07:33] Melissa Traverse: They're freaking delicious.
[00:07:34] John Craven: Yeah, like Cool Ranch Doritos is one of the best snacks of all time. Gross. 100%.
[00:07:38] Ray Latif: I agree with you, Mike. The question I have is, are people going to see through it, though? Like, it's great that they have Doritos, but Cloud has always been a protein-centric brand, right? Just the fact that you're adding protein to Doritos, you're adding fiber to smart food, does that really make a difference for consumers?
[00:07:52] John Craven: I think one of the things that we're seeing here is that they're triggered by cloud because they're trying to add protein Not What they're doing. So cloud must be taking like that micro amount of share from them. That's just annoying them a bit. So they're saying, hey, can we get that back? Or should we be innovating in that direction? And they're testing with their legacy brands, of course.
[00:08:11] Mike Schneider: Or they're like, man, we should acquire this fast growing whatever, protein, fiber brand.
[00:08:17] Melissa Traverse: Now we can just do that on our own. I think because GLP-1s are becoming so prevalent and obviously Doritos is a mass market brand, I think that there might be a play there for people who are trying to eat more protein.
[00:08:32] Mike Schneider: Just put the GLP-1s in a Dorito flavor.
[00:08:34] Melissa Traverse: Hey, that's a great idea. Just shortcut all this. That could be the next big thing.
[00:08:40] Mike Schneider: Taco Bell, great there too.
[00:08:42] Ray Latif: Mountain Dew Baja Blast. When are we going to see colostrum in Doritos? Do you think there's a possibility of that ever happening? Colostrum's more expensive. A long time. Okay, so Kenny brought a jar of Ancient Nutrition colostrum with him. I don't think I've ever consumed colostrum this way. And we talked about where it comes from. A couple episodes ago, Melissa, you talked about this. What do you mean this way? What is it? Just a powder you mix with water?
[00:09:06] Mike Schneider: Yeah.
[00:09:07] Ray Latif: Okay.
[00:09:07] Melissa Traverse: You probably consumed it after you had just been born.
[00:09:10] Ray Latif: I don't recall, but it's possible. Yeah. I mean, colostrum seems to be an ingredient that a lot of people are talking about, but the education here I think is just. Not only complex and somewhat confusing, but maybe a little touchy to talk about, to your point there, Melissa.
[00:09:30] Melissa Traverse: So it's the first milk that a baby, anything will get before actual breast milk comes in for the baby to feed on. It's like a supercharger. Yeah, it's like a supercharger. It's like liquid gold, but I mean, I don't know. How many things do we need to be taking these days?
[00:09:46] Ray Latif: Everything. Perhaps we can go to an article about fraud in avocado oil. Do you think that can be a transition? I think it just became one.
[00:09:56] Melissa Traverse: I think it just became one.
[00:09:58] John Craven: I mean, any of us would have to look at the study and see if they chose products at random or if they chose products that they already suspected.
[00:10:05] Melissa Traverse: Right. From what I read in the article, they chose a pretty good swath of brands that you would see on shelf at a Whole Foods, even a Market Basket.
[00:10:15] John Craven: So they walked into a Whole Foods or a Market Basket, pulled a bunch of products and tested them and found 89% of them have other oils.
[00:10:20] Melissa Traverse: Exactly, exactly. Yeah. And I mean, it is on the brands to figure out the integrity of the products they're using, but that's really, really hard because there's a limited amount of supply chain transparency, especially because avocado oil is a newer ingredient. In terms of how much it's being used, you know, after the olive oil controversy, there were put into place more ways of testing and more rigorous standards. So I'll be interested to see if this changes the supply chain transparency in the way that it changed for olive oil.
[00:10:56] John Craven: Nothing like making an already hard job harder.
[00:10:59] Ray Latif: It's a controversy that I'm sure Nosh will be following in the weeks and months to come. So stay tuned on that front. All right, once again, this is a segment or part of the show that we like to call Chomping at the Bit. And John Craven has been chomping at the bit to talk about this bottled cocktail that he has in his hand. What is this all about?
[00:11:21] Mike Schneider: That makes no sense. It's a beverage. No one's chomping.
[00:11:24] Ray Latif: Well, it's a saying. It's a euphemism, right? Sure. Okay.
[00:11:29] Mike Schneider: We'll go with it. Anyway, this is the Mission Craft Cocktails' new Pickle Rita, which I brought because I know, Ray, you in particular love pickle-flavored drinks.
[00:11:39] Ray Latif: I love pickle juice. I really do.
[00:11:40] Mike Schneider: Me too. So this is for you. I will give you this bottle. It's one of the three that we got. It's unopened. Okay. I did not reattach the seal after taking a few swigs. Okay.
[00:11:50] Ray Latif: But it's basically... Steve Swiggs would be the least of my worries, but anyway, please go ahead.
[00:11:54] Mike Schneider: Yeah, you know, Mission Craft Cocktails, we've had their stuff many times. They make some really good ready to pour cocktails. A mission, social-based mission there. There you go, of course. Can't forget about that. 375ml bottle, but it's basically like a classic margarita with dill pickle. You know, I'm not going to lie. I thought it was going to be a little gimmicky, like that fake pickle flavoring, but it's a little subtle hit of dill pickle at the end. It's really good.
[00:12:19] Melissa Traverse: Is it like the dirty martini of margaritas?
[00:12:23] Mike Schneider: I mean, that might be a good comparison for it. Although I would probably prefer this. Anyway, I will leave this for you. You should try it.
[00:12:31] Ray Latif: Do you think that there's a resurgence of pickle flavor this and pickle flavor that?
[00:12:36] Mike Schneider: I'm not sure it ever really went away. It's just kind of been there. I mean, pickle flavor stuff seems to kind of have its moments and I don't know. I'm not sure it can have a permanent always on moment.
[00:12:47] Melissa Traverse: I had Sherry Fry from Nielsen IQ on the non-base podcast right after Expo West and pickle was one of the top flavors in her trend report. And it definitely is true. It's definitely a trend. We just keep seeing more and more pickle flavored things and I'm not sad about it at all.
[00:13:08] Ray Latif: I think we're seeing a lot of pickle flavored things because everyone wants a piece of Grillo's. Grillo's has become a hot commodity in terms of co-branded or co-manufactured products, including. The one they released with Firehook. Firehook, a brand of artisan baked crackers, introduced a limited edition Grillo's Pickles Dill Pickle flavor. It's USDA organic and comes in the now well-known package for Firehook. It's a, what do you call this, a little bin?
[00:13:42] Melissa Traverse: Clam shell.
[00:13:43] Ray Latif: Clam shell. It's a clam shell that contains 5.5 ounces. It's like a mini version of a salad clam shell. There you go. Well done, John Craven. Firehooks.
[00:13:51] John Craven: Sounds like a superhero. Tastes like a cracker.
[00:13:53] Ray Latif: So if you guys want to do some more crunching, I haven't tried these yet. I want to crunch. Yes, so crunch. While you're crunching, I know there's so many co-branded limited edition Grillo's products that we've seen over the past two, three years, but can you identify your favorite one? Do you have a favorite Grillo's collab? And it could be this one, perhaps. I'm not sure. Firehook crackers, yeah. Really? Are you getting a lot of pickle flavor in there?
[00:14:19] Melissa Traverse: Mm-hmm. There's pickle dust on top. I always want things to be saltier, so I would like a little more salt, but that's just me.
[00:14:26] John Craven: But you'll get it from the hummus that you're gonna dip it in.
[00:14:28] Ray Latif: So the hummus, the Ithaca hummus collab that they did with Grillo's, that one is fire. I think that might be my favorite one.
[00:14:35] John Craven: It's fire and firehook and let's have a three-way collab. Let's go.
[00:14:40] Ray Latif: Oh, I don't think you can say that on the podcast also the PBR Grillo's collab I Wouldn't say that's my favorite, but that is pretty darn creative. I like that one a lot who made the Grillo's underwear. I Believe that was Frank himself Frank Grillo in the shoes.
[00:14:56] Melissa Traverse: They would have shoes too.
[00:14:57] Ray Latif: There was that didn't we just get clothing from No, that was that was a different company Frank Grillo.
[00:15:03] Melissa Traverse: I just got a hit of salt. You know, mad props to Grillo's. They are a Boston-based brand. And when I was working at Whole Foods Market in the North Atlantic, they were always the first people to sign up to come to store openings. They would bring t-shirts for all the people in the stores. They wanted to do everything and anything And they've just done such a great job with their branding and their partnerships with retailers and their partnerships with brands. It's such a great case study in how to grow a big, great brand.
[00:15:34] Ray Latif: Good stuff. Yeah. I just did a quick Google search because I forgot some of the collaborations that they've done. I think, what's the first one? The one with V8 when they did the Bloody Mary mix? Got me. They've done collaborations with V8. They've done with Utz, with Boulder Brands. It's the brand of kettle cooked chips with liquid IV if you can believe it.
[00:15:53] Melissa Traverse: Oh, that's right.
[00:15:54] Ray Latif: Pop-Up Bagels's Bees. Yeah, really interesting stuff. This should be a case study. Someone should do a, or at least an article on the success that Grillers has had in doing all these collaborations. I think between them and Mike's Hot Honey, they're fine for first place.
[00:16:09] Melissa Traverse: Sounds like a good interview topic, right? Sounds like a good, yeah, webinar.
[00:16:13] Ray Latif: For whom? For me? For you. I don't talk about such things on the podcast.
[00:16:17] John Craven: I don't talk about such great lessons on how to build a brand on the podcast. That's crazy.
[00:16:22] Ray Latif: I also forgot about hippies. Hippies is another one.
[00:16:25] John Craven: Sure.
[00:16:25] Ray Latif: Hippies did a recent rebrand recently, didn't they?
[00:16:27] Mike Schneider: I think so.
[00:16:28] Ray Latif: They have a new look. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe. Okay. Just a mention, we're not going to get deep into that. All right. I got to ask about what's in the box. You know, I'm doing a little Severn reference here, Melissa.
[00:16:39] Melissa Traverse: What's in the box? So I have here a box of dates. You know, I saw these first at Erewhon. They are the Rancho Meladucco, Meladuco Date Farm dates. These are handpicked from the Coachella Valley. And I actually, these came from Clearflower Bakery in Brookline.
[00:16:59] Ray Latif: Pause there. Best bakery in the world.
[00:17:02] Melissa Traverse: I mean, if you're in Boston, wait, Not What's the best bakery?
[00:17:06] Ray Latif: I mean, there's so many great bakeries. Okay. In the United States, I've had a lot of croissants and French bread and things like that. There's nothing that comes close to Clearflower.
[00:17:16] Melissa Traverse: Their bread and pastries are incredible. And like so many bakeries and specialty shops, they are carrying more and more CPG products. So these came from there. I was curious. You certainly get charged a premium for these. They're handpicked. It's a family farm. Do you want to try some dates?
[00:17:36] John Craven: Let's date. Oh boy. Wow. These are some plump dates.
[00:17:40] Melissa Traverse: Yeah. They're all nestled in together. They really do look like they were packed with care.
[00:17:44] Mike Schneider: I found- Each worker only picks 10 dates per day.
[00:17:49] Melissa Traverse: That's right. That's right. That's right. What do you think, Mike?
[00:17:52] Mike Schneider: Tastes like dates.
[00:17:53] Melissa Traverse: They taste like dates.
[00:17:54] Ray Latif: It looks like a date. They have pits in them. They have pits, of course.
[00:17:56] Melissa Traverse: Yeah, of course. That's how they stay, um, the M-word-er.
[00:18:00] Ray Latif: Moist.
[00:18:01] Melissa Traverse: Moisture. But I did find that these weren't as moist as some of the other dates that I've purchased, like Julie's, for example. There's another brand that I buy at Market Basket. I did a little bit of research and found that dates are oftentimes either rehydrated or dehydrated to achieve the right moisture level. I don't know if that was done with these, but yeah, I don't know. I didn't realize they underwent that kind of production method.
[00:18:27] John Craven: Did you know they have more potassium than bananas?
[00:18:30] Melissa Traverse: I think I actually did because of... Did you know they're a good source of fiber? And actually they're lower glycemic than other forms of sugar.
[00:18:36] John Craven: Did you know they're a sweet treat with a low glycemic index?
[00:18:39] Melissa Traverse: I actually did know that they had more potassium because of that brand Datefix.
[00:18:43] Ray Latif: Yes, Datefix, launched by our dear friend Alan Skolnick. Love that brand. Yeah.
[00:18:48] Melissa Traverse: Yeah. These I would love to fill with pistachio butter and cover them in chocolate.
[00:18:52] Mike Schneider: Yeah. That's an interesting thought. You Not What else dates are? Or we could stuff them with the butter, with the pistachio butter. That's what I mean.
[00:18:59] John Craven: Yeah, stuff them with the pistachio butter and then dip them in chocolate.
[00:19:03] Ray Latif: You Not What else dates are? And it says it on the side of the box. Delicious. Dates are cool.
[00:19:06] John Craven: Yeah, they are. Hashtag dates are cool. It's a hashtag. It's so cool. Yeah. So cool.
[00:19:10] Ray Latif: So if you reference this brand, make sure you hashtag dates are cool.
[00:19:13] John Craven: These are good dates. Hard to mess up a date. They did not mess it up.
[00:19:16] Melissa Traverse: Yeah. The packaging to me is what really drew me in there.
[00:19:19] John Craven: Yeah, they're definitely artisan.
[00:19:21] Ray Latif: I messed up a date once. It was over in about 20 minutes.
[00:19:25] John Craven: Amanda Sainz from Julie's right now is delighted by your date pun.
[00:19:32] Ray Latif: Mike and Melissa Traverse been sipping or slurping on a water bottle that has the logo Air Up. What is this?
[00:19:41] John Craven: We don't always talk about tech companies on the show, but I think this is a tech company that makes your water taste better. Like without adding calories. So just scented pods.
[00:19:52] Ray Latif: Wait a minute, the water bottle makes your water taste better?
[00:19:55] John Craven: Yeah, you add a pod to the top that has scent in it. And this one has peach. I was trying cherry cola earlier. What do you have over there?
[00:20:02] Melissa Traverse: I have the berry, the berry flavor. We'll get to, we'll get to that. Lemonberry? Yeah.
[00:20:07] Ray Latif: The water bottle has a paw that has scent in it, which makes the water taste better. Exactly. Okay, this is mind-blowing. Mind-blowing stuff.
[00:20:14] Melissa Traverse: I've never seen anything like this. There was a ready-to-drink that did this. Yeah, it's called Scent.
[00:20:19] John Craven: S-C-E-N-T. I remember that. Is it still around? No, I don't think so. I don't think so because they, I think they struggled with keeping the scent on. The zent. It has to be on the tip of the bottle somewhere on the cap. And these guys have solved that by putting a straw into a bottle and, you know, the pods wrapped around the straw and yeah.
[00:20:39] Ray Latif: Well, what are they saying? Tastes like peach. 50% of flavor comes through your nose.
[00:20:42] John Craven: Through your nose.
[00:20:43] Mike Schneider: Yeah, but I think the problem with this, much like scent, is that your perception of value as a consumer is like out of whack. Because while that might be true that that percent comes from the scent, you're paying not for smell. Right? I think that's a tough thing to say to a consumer. Like you're not getting anything in the liquid. You're just getting some smells. I don't know. I could just buy a scented candle and have a glass of water.
[00:21:10] Ray Latif: Right? Not What you're saying is AROP is like going Dutch on a date.
[00:21:15] Mike Schneider: I don't Not What that means, but I think, I think it's just something that's, it's got a complicated sort of education, perceived value or value proposition challenge.
[00:21:26] John Craven: One of the problems is everybody already has a water bottle and this has some proprietary technology. I talked to the VP of strategy, Atul Ahuja, about some of these, you know, challenges for the brand. And they acknowledge all these things that you just, you just talked about, John. Like there's a bit of an education curve. The question is, is somebody gonna understand that scent drives the taste and can you get them to, you know, buy the bottle too? So, I mean, that, that's going to be the challenge for the brand. But I think once you do, you know, the experience is pretty decent.
[00:21:55] Melissa Traverse: I will say it does work. When you taste the water, you do get a hint of, in my case, the berry flavor. But I also feel like something's missing when I swallow the water.
[00:22:07] John Craven: Well, that's the calories. Well, there you go.
[00:22:10] Melissa Traverse: There you go. Yeah.
[00:22:11] Ray Latif: That brings us to the end of this episode of Taste Radio. Thank you so much for listening. Taste Radio is a production of BevNET.com Incorporated. Our audio engineer for Taste Radio is Joe Cracci. Our technical director is Joshua Pratt, and our video editor is Ryan Galang. Our social marketing manager is Amanda Smerlinski, and our designer is Amanda Huang. Just a reminder, if you like what you hear on Taste Radio, please share the podcast with friends and colleagues. And of course, we would love it if you could review us on the Apple Podcasts app or your listening platform of choice. Check us out on Instagram. Our handle is bevnettasteradio. As always, for questions, comments, ideas for future podcasts, please send us an email to ask at Taste Radio.com. On behalf of the entire Taste Radio team, thank you for listening, and we'll talk to you next time.
[00:23:01] Mike Schneider: you
