[00:00:08] Ray Latif: Hello, friends. I'm Ray Latif, and you're tuned into Taste Radio, the number one podcast for anyone building a business in food or beverage. For 12 years, Jason Wright has been obsessed with one question. Can a protein snack compete with the biggest brands in the chip aisle on taste alone? In this episode, Jason, who is the founder and CEO of Wilde Snacks, explains how a failed meat bar business led to a breakthrough innovation, why he spent years building proprietary manufacturing technology, and how Weill's new protein crackers fit into a broader vision for a protein-powered snack platform. Jason also discusses the value of patient investors, the strategic role of Costco and product sampling in driving trial, and why he believes the future of better-for-you snacks depends on eliminating the compromise between nutrition and indulgence. Hey folks, it's Ray with Taste Radio right now. I am honored to be sitting down with Jason Wright, the founder and CEO of Wilde Snacks. Jason, great to see you.
[00:01:22] Jason Wright: Great. Thank you for having me, man. It's good to be back. I think it's been a couple of years since we last spoke and I'm excited about the opportunity to sit down with you here today.
[00:01:31] Ray Latif: It was almost exactly five years ago that we published our last interview with you. The title of which was why Whole Foods bit on and built around this wild concept and wild spelled W I L D E. And Wilde has done some amazing things in CPG since it launched in 2014. 12 years? You're 12 years in the business now, which says you must be doing something right. But I don't know how many times you've tried to rip your own hair out over those 12 years.
[00:02:05] Jason Wright: Ray, when I started, I had black hair. Now I have gray hair. If it was falling out, I think I'd have lost it all by now. But, uh, The first probably four years of wild was a lot of idea, thinking through concept, how to do it. So we really didn't get going, you know, officially until 2018, but truthfully 2021 is when I like to say that we became a real brand. And that was because we opened our. our facility. And up until that point, Wild was a huge R&D project, start, stop. But 21, we opened our first facility and we double sales every year since. And so that's when we really started to be a real brand.
[00:02:49] Ray Latif: Well, 2021 is also when you first appeared on Taste Radio. So maybe that's a part of your success story as well.
[00:02:56] Jason Wright: I think so, Ray. That's when you recognize me as a, he may be around for a while, you know?
[00:03:01] Ray Latif: I think so. And I was thrilled to receive your latest product in the mail a few weeks ago, and that is the Wilde Protein Crackers line. There are two SKUs that I received, a classic cheddar and a hot honey. And for our listeners, You might look at this product and say, this looks familiar. This looks like a product that I may have seen in my childhood that comes in a red cardboard box, but this product looks significantly healthier and better for me. It is made with real chicken breasts. chicken bone broth and cheddar cheese and contains 12 grams of protein per serving. There are four servings per container or pouch in this case. It's a 4.2 ounce pouch. As I mentioned before you hopped in the mic, I have not tried these yet and I'm looking forward to doing so. Wilds, just to give some context, did not start out in snacks. It started out in bars. Just share with our audience, just to give them a quick history on Wilds, how you got started in this business and why you thought chicken could be the primary ingredient in a snack brand.
[00:04:15] Jason Wright: Yeah, for sure, Ray. So we started out as a meat-based protein bar. The idea there was make jerky into a bar, kind of like, I would say, like a con bar. And sometimes what you have visually in your head and reality doesn't connect. You know, a lot of people in 2000, call it 16, was jumping into the meat-based protein bar category. You had Epic, you had Tonka, and we were there. But reality was the category was not big, and Epic owned it. So we had to pivot. And I love potato chips, and I always have loved potato chips. but they didn't love me back. And having worked with meat in the bar, I automatically had an idea, could I replace the chicken or could I replace the potato with chicken breast? And so that was kind of how I springboard from really a failing product. The meat bar was not a success and I had to pivot and I really wanted to have something I could snack on. My love for potato chips, I just wanted to see if I could replace the potato with chicken. And I don't think there was another protein I really could pick. Looking at the meat-based protein bars, we were using beef and we had turkey, and I think we had one with bison. But when I thought about the chip, I needed something that was kind of a blank canvas, something that we could flavor and seasoning. I had learned enough in the bars. that certain people don't eat certain meats, religious reasons, belief, whichever you want to chalk it up to, different parts of the world. And so I automatically thought about chicken when I thought about our chip. And, you know, we pivoted in 2018 and The chip was not an easy road, and I'm sure we'll get deep into that, but we tried it at a pork rind facility. That was not the way to do it. Eventually, after having a short stop at a Co-Man with our own equipment, we eventually had to, you know, build our own facility and go do this ourselves. The last time you and I spoke, we were opening that new facility in 21.
[00:06:23] Ray Latif: Well, congratulations on opening that facility. You're also on the cusp of opening another facility down the street. This one is significantly bigger.
[00:06:32] Jason Wright: Yeah, so the first building was 55,000 square foot. We are opening right now 130,000 square foot facility. Our current facility, we maxed capacity out. It was slightly north of 100 million in capacity. We maxed that out. The new building, just in the chip alone, is about three times that in capacity. And we installed a cracker line. which we'll get into, but, you know, our, our first shot at innovation in the last five years, something we've been working on for a while, but, you know, unlike a lot of other brands that go to Co-Man, I just don't crank it out that fast because a lot of our, if not all of our products require special equipment and this one required a lot of special equipment. And then we have other things at the facility, you know, other concepts, other vehicles that we will be bringing to market later this year. So the new building gives us a lot of flexibility on innovation. We completely have built out our innovation pipeline.
[00:07:32] Ray Latif: You said something interesting to me earlier, which is that you see yourself as a co-man with a brand, which I think is really interesting. A lot of entrepreneurs that I've spoken with that have their own manufacturing or that operate their own manufacturing, talk about two distinct businesses. One side is production. One side is sales and marketing, which is more important, which is more critical to the business's development and growth.
[00:07:57] Jason Wright: For me, it's been the manufacturing piece. I definitely have a flag in the sand. I have a market cornered, you know, and when I said, co-man, whether that was the right word or not, what I meant by that is because we don't co-man for anyone. We've had plenty of opportunities from big retail chains to brands coming to me and I just won't do it. That's my secret sauce is what I've developed in that building. And that's what is my IP. And I'm holding onto that. There's multiple ways to skin the cat, but for me, controlling my own destiny, having something that's totally unique, not a me too. And that goes back to my first adventure in the entrepreneurship back in my twenties. You know, I had launched a me too product and, and it didn't go so well. And so for me, I'd always thought about after that adventure, doing something that was completely new to world, you know, and I could control my own destiny. So for me. Listen, marketing sales is super important. That's something that wild has not done a great job of in marketing and we will get better, but it's because that we put all of our time money into creating something unique with special equipment, cornering the market. And then eventually we invested in the sales and our last kind of area that we're really investing in right now is marketing and telling the story.
[00:09:19] Ray Latif: When did you realize that you were going from a concept to a challenger brand to a scaled player in this business? Once you come to market with an innovative idea, you have to make sure that that innovative idea fits into consumers' lives. It seems like that happened relatively quickly. But then as you're starting to scale, you start to think about what the potential is for the brand and who your competitors could be. As it stands now, Wild I see as a real player in the snack space. Protein notwithstanding, I think you can just call yourself a player in the snack space. So when you're thinking about those steps from concepts to challenger brand to scaled brand, what were the biggest inflection points for each?
[00:10:13] Jason Wright: Well, first of all, I gotta say the facility. If I don't open that facility in 21, I doubt we're talking today, right? I really do. You know, while before the facility was middle of the road product, it wasn't, in my opinion, I was not proud of it. And in order to make the product better, we had to go control our own destiny. So if we don't open the facility in 21, then we probably are not here. So that's probably number one. If we don't continue to massage how we talk about wild, talking about chicken breast, egg white, bone broth, and developing the flavors, then, you know, we probably don't start to catch on in 22 and 23 as well as we did. I would say one, two is Costco. Wild is a product that you have to try. And so Costco shoppers are conditioned. They're walking into the store looking to try samples.
[00:11:16] Ray Latif: I know that Costco does a ton of sampling and it's known for introducing new products to its customers via demos, but I wouldn't necessarily think of it as a place of discovery. It sounds like from what you're saying, that's exactly what Costco is.
[00:11:33] Jason Wright: I think it is. I think Whole Foods and Costco are your discovery points. And I think you have to go back to what retailer has done the best at demoing product. If you go back to Whole Foods or Costco, you can't really find, you know, and I'd sprinkle in Sprouts, but you can't find another retailer, in my opinion, where you walk in and people are like lined up to try samples. So those were very important to Wild in the early days, and they still are, especially with the new product coming out. Because, you know, for the longest time and still today, although we're much closer today, we have struggled with ways to describe what we are. And I always tell our partners, marketing partners and marketing team, like Wild really is the classic, I can't Believe It's Not Butter. If you take up Can't Believe It's Not Butter and you look at the back of the pack and say, well, I'm just going to go to the front and say, let's say, butter alternative spread crafted from and list the ingredients. I don't know how many people try that, but when you tell them that I can't Believe It's Not Butter and you convince them that they got to try it to see if they can Believe It's Not Butter. I mean, that's magic, right? And I think that's where you're going to see wild go to. But in the early days, demos was the best mouse trap we had, the best way of discovering the product. There's a third piece and the third piece is just the innovation pipeline. I think wild becomes really a household brand when it can go into other categories and it can go into other forms, factors, usage, occasion. And that's kind of where we're at today. We're, we're launching cracker. There's tortilla in the lineup coming and there could be one or two other items. That's kind of the three big. points of what I Believe It going to be the, you know, when it's all said and done, the success roadmap for wild.
[00:13:31] Wilde Snacks: Better-for-you ingredients can help a product stand out, but turning those ingredients into a business that grows is the harder part. Join Nambase for a free webinar on July 28th with Tom First, founder of CulturePop, and Heather Wood, SVP of marketing at Goodals. They'll talk about what it really takes to build clean label brands that drive trial, repeat purchase, and sustainable growth, from formulation and sourcing to branding, retail, and operations. Sign up for free at nambase.com slash podcast.
[00:14:00] Ray Latif: I like to talk about innovation a lot, but one of the things that isn't necessarily and commonly talked about with innovation is timing and making sure that the market opportunity for a new product line is the right time. How do you incorporate and evaluate timing when considering new product development?
[00:14:22] Jason Wright: Yeah, it's a great question, Ray. If I was working at a co-man, I probably would do it faster, but at Wild, you know, Even at concept, you work on a product for, in our case, because of the ingredients we use, we are not calling anyone that has the knowledge. Like we are going to do it ourself. And then after that, you're going to, you know, let's just say that's a year. Now you're going to go through probably two years of equipment, finding lead times, building to your spec, testing. So for wild, it's just that longer journey. I don't necessarily think it's the right journey. Although I will say the one big proof point here is I do like the fact that we got the core product North of a hundred million before you'll see innovation. There's probably only a few brands that have launched vehicles. So new product extension that has hit over a hundred million. I think Quest is one, and I think Conbar is one, and I think there's one other. And so that always stuck with me. You know, I was surrounded by on the board with some smart people that, that has some insights. So that stuck with me, but really it's just the fact that it takes us a little bit longer. I will tell you. Well, you will start to see from while though, you know, and I'll talk about the cracker line. Because I knew how long it takes to do an innovative product like ours, we built the cracker line with multiple vehicles in mind. And so think about pretzel, think about pita chip, think about shapes. So you can imagine that small yellow, orange product. It's a cracker, but a shape. That all could be done in our current line. So when we installed that, we had all those ideas in mind. And so that equipment now sits in our building that we can, on the same production line, run those products. And then the last, you know, we did fast pace the tortilla line. We had been working on the tortilla line for a while. And so that'll be in the building, you know, call it September, August, September this year. I'd like to think that now we're just going to really focus on sales and marketing.
[00:16:32] Ray Latif: From what I'm hearing, Wild is preparing itself to become a platform brand for protein snacks, which is very exciting. And I think the protein crackers are a great next step for the brand. When you're considering the pace of innovation and the rollout for the innovation, how much does retailer buy-in impact that strategy?
[00:16:59] Jason Wright: I'll tell you that today, right now in Vegas, we are showing the tortilla to multiple retailers. We're actually lining up commitments. I'm not afraid of showing because we are made of chicken breast, bone broth. The secret sauce of Wilde, you can't duplicate it. And so for the buyer to leave and say, Hey, you know, Wilde's going to launch a tortilla. And I'm telling you in six months made a chicken breast. Well, that's not capable of being manufactured anywhere else that I'm aware of. So, you know, if I was working with Coatman and I was going to launch I'm just going to make it up. I was going to launch chickpea, right? Maybe I keep that to myself because that's easily duplicated if the secret gets out. But for me, the secret's out, but the know-how's still at Wild and with me. We are very aggressive right now about what's coming with retailers and they are aggressive in moving around things to accommodate what we're bringing. And there's some big commitments for the products. And to answer your question, we did survey a couple items and tortilla and cracker was top of the list by a long shot.
[00:18:16] Ray Latif: I mean, it would make sense because I'm seeing a lot of protein tortilla chips come to market. A few protein crackers come to market, not necessarily like the ones that you've created, which are delicious, by the way. I've been snacking on the classic cheddar variety and it lives up to the billing. It is an excellent product and it very much resembles what I grew up on and, you know, still continue to see on the market. I'm still kind of amazed that we haven't mentioned that brand name and we won't, but we'll keep going here. The idea of creating a product or a line of products that aren't easily replicatable, aren't able to be created by other brands, seems to be a superpower for Wild. I'm not saying that you won't have any competitors in the future, but you've created a moat around your brand via production and manufacturing. Do you have any patents, however? Do you have any patents on anything related to your production facility or the way you make your snacks?
[00:19:14] Jason Wright: Yeah, we do. We do. So there's patents on both the tortilla and the current chip. There's patents there on the cracker. There's no patent really on the cracker with the equipment, at least not as of right now. We are using stuff on that line that has never been done. But I don't think it's necessarily patentable. There's just a ton of secret sauce. And I always tell people, you know, even when they visit the facility and they always want to ask about, you know, the patents. And I'm like, you know, I literally could give people a patent. I probably could publish it. And it is like you can research it, but you could give people that piece of equipment that you still can't make wild unless you know the secret sauce. And you can make a product that It's like cardboard with the patent, but you really need to understand how we are formulating and, you know, what our recipe is to make it eat well. And I would say the only way we got here is because of trial and error. You know, I just didn't want to settle. I just kept going after this and I had a vision and I wouldn't give up and just kept trying some stuff. And that's really how we got here.
[00:20:29] Speaker 1: Taste Radio meetups are continuing in Chicago, San Diego, San Francisco, and London. Come hang out with the food, beverage, and beer community for live podcast recordings, CPG networking, and sample sharing. Want to attend or partner with us? Head to Taste Radio.com slash meetups.
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[00:21:07] Speaker 3: Mark your calendar. Nosh Live is back December 3rd and 4th in Los Angeles. Join packaged food founders, buyers, investors, and operators for two days of product discovery and conversations focused on what's next. Early registration pricing is available now. Head to noshlive.com to register.
[00:21:24] Ray Latif: It helps if you have patient investors who are willing to allow you to try and fail or at least try and get better. And people who are investing in CPG are looking at the big, broad opportunity for a particular brand. Oftentimes, especially at the early stage, folks want to find the next great brand, whether it's a Lester Evil, a Poppy, a Simple Mills. And I think when you look at a brand like Wild, I see that opportunity and I would see that opportunity as an investor. But how do you find investors that are willing to be patient and that are willing to take the time for a brand to develop, especially one as unique as Wild? And I ask this because clearly it took capital and significant capital to build and invest in the manufacturing facilities that you have built?
[00:22:27] Jason Wright: Yeah, Ray, listen, if I didn't have one guy, Alan Karp, that Believe It the concept, Believe It me and was very patient. We would not be here. I don't know if there's any other investor out there that would have been as patient with me, supported me. I just don't know of any because you nailed it. People want to invest in a ramp. So, you know, even when you're playing the stock market, I'm playing the stock market, I'm guilty of it. We all want to invest in the ramp. And unfortunately for a while, there was a lot of secret sauce building, IP building that came with no ramp. Right now we're ramping, but a lot of hard work went in to get to this point. And, you know, there's probably two people. And it's me and Alan. And if we were not together, I think Weill wouldn't exist because it was a lot of hard work on my end and a lot of hard work on my team. But he was a very patient investor and he's my lead investor and he continues to be my lead investor. That was right place, right time and meeting him through Bill Moses. But to be honest, I've talked to a lot of other funds and I understand. They want to invest in the ramp and there's a timetable, but you know, Alan didn't have a timetable, which was a huge luxury to wild. Cause we just had so much to figure out. So if I had signed a deal and did something with a five year, three year PE, they're out, we would have been in trouble.
[00:24:02] Ray Latif: What was your initial pitch to Alan such that he saw the future of the brand versus its current or when it was at its current state?
[00:24:13] Jason Wright: It wasn't really a crazy pitch. He's a visionary. And I think he saw the protein category developing before anybody saw it. He liked the fact that it was out of real food. He thought the world needed an option to not have to settle for, you know, empty snacking with legacy products and not have to settle for powder products with Wilde Protein snacks. He just really felt that the need for a real food snack existed. I think he enjoys the nuance about it, figuring out the machinery, doing something that's never been done before. I think that gets him out of bed in the morning. And I think that's really what he took a liking to. And I'm sure he took a liking to the fact that I was willing to I mean, you could tell that I was dedicated, but it was just my life. I can remember when we were at the Co-Man, I mean, I spent 200 nights in Martinsville, Virginia. If you've ever been to Martinsville, there's one Hampton Inn, and then it really falls off a cliff on any other accommodation options. There's maybe one restaurant there, and then the same thing, it falls off a big cliff. But that's where we put our first equipment and my wife and fur babies were in Boulder that year while 200 nights I was in Martinsville. But that was just a dedication. I had a vision and I was running through brick walls to get to where I wanted to go. I think he saw that and he respected it.
[00:25:37] Ray Latif: Yeah. Investors invest in entrepreneurs as much as they do in brands and businesses. I hear that a lot. They also want to invest in sound businesses and making sure that if you're not currently profitable, you have a path to profitability. And that gross margin is in line with expectations for CPG brands. How much does that matter? How much does that impact your business strategy at this point? It seems like your vision and your ambition is driving this company right now. But how do you make sure that costs and efficiency are in line with expectations for a business in CPG?
[00:26:17] Jason Wright: Yeah, listen, you definitely need to have a path to profitability or positive EBITDA, and you definitely need to have a path to better margin. Our early margins were peanuts. We were doing something that's never been done before. We had two manufacturing facilities. We were shipping product, not owning it, but co-mans that we were going back and forth from. And we were just not doing well on the margin front. When we opened our facility, you know, we went from like teams all the way to like triple that. You can launch a product like the cracker might not come out of the gate because you're scaling something for the first time. You've got, you know, start, stop, you've got just learnings. So you may not come out with the ideal margin, but over time you need a path to get there.
[00:27:05] Ray Latif: And you need to have products that taste amazing. You have to have products that people won't try once and say, well, that was fine, but I'm probably not going to buy that again. You need to compel consumers to buy products consistently and often. And when I think about the protein crackers, I do feel like you are at a no-compromise level, especially given the functional benefit that you're getting from this product. But making sure that that is top of mind when you are innovating and when you are demoing and when you are talking to customers has to be priority number one. Have there been times when you felt like you could launch a product that was pretty good, that was almost there, or has a launch or a new product introduction always had to be perfect in your eyes before it hit the market?
[00:28:02] Jason Wright: Great question, Ray. I strive for perfection, but I've never gotten there. The chip, I mean, I would be lying to you if I said that I wasn't always tweaking it and if I wasn't always learning. But, you know, the one thing I'd say, let's think about this. Frito, for example, has probably been around 60 years. And think about the 60 years of learning and you and I wasn't around for all that, but we just know it as what it looks like today. I've been fortunate to have some folks who have retired and they consult for a while. And so I get all this backstory. But these guys went through the same evolution, like you're learning something for the first time, new technology comes, you learn something, you learn a better way to do it. So I view that as our product, you know, with our product, like the chip, when I turn this new chip line on, I am going from one cook zone to three cook zone and that is going to drive different texture. It's going to drive cleaner eating and so all that is just more knowledge that we learned and then we apply it and so we're constantly trying to make it better. Like if I could write my own ticket wild chips would eat like a Pringle. And I'm fortunate and happy that we come out of the gate on the cracker much more closer to the legacy than we did on the chip. But I'm not like 100% with the cracker yet. You know, I think there's optimization going on. I mean, 10 minutes before I jumped on this call, I was on the cracker line and we were working on something this week. And so I think you always got to be getting better. That's just my vision now. That's what I'm going after. And I, I don't view wild belonging in sports nutrition. I view wild belonging in the snack category. And why can't people have the taste and texture of the legacy product without the empty snacking? and have something that, you know, is filling and just makes them feel better about consuming a snack built out of real ingredient. Like that, that's really what my focus is.
[00:30:16] Ray Latif: I mean, I think the key to any great CPG brand is making something that consumers across the board will embrace. It's pretty rare to find or hear about an acquisition that happens where it's truly a functional product. It always seems like the best tasting products rise to the top and ones that really resonate with consumers. on multiple levels, not just functionality. And I think that makes a ton of sense when you talk about indulgence as the key to Wild's future. And I see it and I'm tasting it and these protein crackers that which again are pretty darn amazing. And I have to congratulate you on getting to this point because it sounds like it was a long process and in one that in the end was truly worth it. So Jason, congratulations on everything that you've accomplished at this point, and very exciting to see the brand's development over five years and thrilled for the next five years for a while. I hope we can do this again really soon.
[00:31:22] Jason Wright: Ray, thank you so much. I've enjoyed it. You talking about it. I'm just so grateful because that's how your listeners will learn about it. And we will continue to spread the word, build awareness and, uh, drive trials. So man, just can't thank you enough for spending time with me today. And, uh, I can't wait to do this in the future.
[00:31:41] Ray Latif: Thank you so much again. Thank you. That brings us to the end of this episode of Taste Radio. Thank you so much for listening. Taste Radio is a production of BevNET.com, Incorporated. Our audio engineer for Taste Radio is Joe Kratchy. Our technical director is Joshua Pratt, and our video editor is Ryan Galang. Our social marketing manager is Amanda Smerlinski, and our designer is Amanda Huang. Just a reminder, if you like what you hear on Taste Radio, please share the podcast with friends and colleagues. And of course, we would love it if you could review us on the Apple Podcasts app or your listening platform of choice. Check us out on Instagram. Our handle is bevnettasteradio. As always, for questions, comments, ideas for future podcasts, please send us an email to ask at Taste Radio.com. On behalf of the entire Taste Radio team, thank you for listening, and we'll talk to you next time. you
