[00:00:10] Ray Latif: Hello, friends, and thanks for tuning in to Taste Radio, the number one podcast for anyone building a business in food or beverage. I'm Ray Latif, the editor and producer of Taste Radio, and with my co-host for this episode, Jacqui Brugliera and Melissa Traverse. This episode features a conversation with Laura Merritt, the CMO of Diageo Beer Company, who discusses Guinness's innovation strategy and how modern trends fit into its approach. Melissa, welcome back.
[00:00:40] Jacqui Brugliera: Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be sitting in a Taste Radio seat again.
[00:00:43] Ray Latif: I know, me too. I wish we had some Guinness, at least, you know, full strength, 0.0, one of the two. I don't know.
[00:00:49] Jacqui Brugliera: I mean, there must be something upstairs that could fit the bill, right?
[00:00:53] Ray Latif: Yeah. Well, I mean, I had a bunch of this Guinness at Expo West. People were wondering, wait a minute, Guinness at Expo West? Why was it there? And, you know, I get into this with, uh, with Laura in our conversation, but, uh, man, that's 0.0, which is their non-alcoholic product. It's pretty fantastic.
[00:01:09] Melissa Traverse: It's really good. I actually drink a lot of it because I happen to be in a lot of Irish pubs with all of my Gaelic footballers. And, you know, it's nice to alternate and you don't really notice the difference between the two.
[00:01:20] Jacqui Brugliera: So in the Irish pubs, is the Guinness zero percent? Is that on tap or available right at the bar?
[00:01:27] Melissa Traverse: So a lot of pubs, I feel like are still testing into it and seeing that people are liking it. So it's not on draft yet. It's in cans. But I think that it could be in the future once they notice how many people want it.
[00:01:39] Ray Latif: In the year 2000. All the way into the year 2000. Youngsters who are loyal listeners of the podcast, or even if you're not a loyal listener, I hope you will be at one point, but you probably don't get that reference. It's from Conan O'Brien's Late Night with Conan O'Brien, which was very famous in the late 90s and early 2000s for having a sketch called The Year 2000.
[00:02:01] Jacqui Brugliera: I just love Conan so much.
[00:02:04] Ray Latif: Jackie recently returned from her annual trip to the one and only Coachella Festival, which highlights some of the most hip, new and happening artists of our time. Is that right?
[00:02:19] Melissa Traverse: It's true, or at least that's what they say. No, I mean- Who are they, by the way? What are the kids doing now? They, the universe, or whoever markets Coachella, you know, great marketing. But yeah, no, it's the second time that I went. It was amazing. I know that everyone is kind of over, well, everything is oversaturated with Coachella and people are kind of sick of it. From social media perspective, actually being there is a different experience. I would say like the music and the environment is top-notch. I think it's also interesting to see some of the activations and some of The Bramins that were there with so many creators and so many brands there. It's kind of a little bit harder to stand out. Some of The Bramins that I saw, I was actually driving in and I saw a billboard for Lucky Beverage Co.
[00:03:08] Ray Latif: Formerly known as?
[00:03:09] Melissa Traverse: Lucky Fuck.
[00:03:12] Ray Latif: Hey! Hey! I can say fuck, right?
[00:03:14] Melissa Traverse: Because it's in a name. And they had a billboard that said, call us for a quick fuck. And it had a number and you had to call the number and it was just like this woman flirting with you telling you to text them to meet up at Coachella. I mean, you know, it caught my attention while I was driving on the highway. I did call the number. I think it's like a lot of people are taking that highway to get to the festival. So it's just interesting how people are trying to capitalize on opportunities outside of the festival to, you know, create a little bit of fun.
[00:03:46] Ray Latif: I hope your significant other has a good sense of humor about calling that number, because if I called that number, I might get into some hot water.
[00:03:53] Melissa Traverse: I actually, yeah, I actually made her call the number.
[00:03:56] Ray Latif: Oh, okay.
[00:03:57] Jacqui Brugliera: Ooh, that was smart.
[00:03:58] Ray Latif: That was smart.
[00:04:00] Jacqui Brugliera: Nice. The last time I saw an invitation like that, it was on the back of a bathroom door.
[00:04:04] Ray Latif: So it's um... Jeez, Melissa, what kind of places do you visit? Oh my goodness.
[00:04:10] Laura Merritt: Yeah, where were you?
[00:04:12] SPEAKER_??: Jeez.
[00:04:12] Ray Latif: I have so many questions, but this is a family show, a family show.
[00:04:18] Laura Merritt: I didn't call the number.
[00:04:20] Ray Latif: Well, just the fact that you're in such a place, I'm surprised and disappointed in some ways as well.
[00:04:26] Melissa Traverse: An assorted past. Yes. Yeah. Something a little bit more wholesome, I would say, is Poppy had a unique approach. They had a home that they rented for a creator. Her name is Alex Earl. She has 3.5 million followers. And they only invited Alex and her friends and family to stay at this house that was just branded with all Poppy. And a lot of people I saw online were having positive reactions, thought it was a little bit more authentic rather than tapping into a bunch of different influencers and just honing in on this one that, you know, she features a lot of friends and family in her content anyways, so it made sense. But yeah, just some interesting ways to stand out from like the influencer Olympics.
[00:05:12] Jacqui Brugliera: I'm so curious, what were some of the posts like? Because I can see how something like that might seem contrived if you put an influencer in a poppy house. What was she talking about?
[00:05:24] Laura Merritt: What was she doing in that poppy house?
[00:05:28] Melissa Traverse: I mean, considering like, There was branding everywhere. It's kind of one of those things where she doesn't even have to be talking about the product. It's just generally in the content, which I think is a little bit more real rather than, you know, in your face here, I'm drinking this product and it's delicious, you know, a plug and just engagement with her friends and her family rather than, you know, again, just her. So yeah, I thought I thought it was good. Also, obviously, with the founders of Poppy being, you know, a husband and wife, it's a family business. I think they're just tapping into that as well.
[00:06:05] Ray Latif: I want to go back to Lucky Beer Company. I have to not say the F-bomb because I'm the host. You're the host.
[00:06:13] Diageo Beer: I'm one of those.
[00:06:14] Ray Latif: You set the standard. I start the show. Lucky Beer Company, they are shifting away. Apparently, they decided that it's a little too controversial to be calling themselves Lucky F. So earlier this month on April 1st, actually, and I don't think this is an April Fool's joke, but our very own Lukas Southard wrote a story about this. And they're trying to just go by Lucky Energy now. And they're adding a censored label to where the F used to be, I guess, just to poke fun at the old name, which makes me wonder for such a big activation at Coachella, maybe they're, I don't know, they're waffling on that, or maybe this was an April Fool's joke. I don't know what's going on here.
[00:06:53] Melissa Traverse: Or I think they're just picking, you know, the times and places to use that. Like Coachella, I think they can get away with it. I don't know if like they had their product in like a family friendly grocery store it would hit as well. So I think they're just it's just like another point of their brand that they can use.
[00:07:11] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah, it seems like it would fit perfectly in with Coachella, but perhaps not at Walmart.
[00:07:15] Ray Latif: Exactly well interesting you say that because that brand based in San Diego that is an almond based dip brand bitchin sauce Mm-hmm has an amazing following everywhere. They are they are sold I don't know in every natural or conventional and mass retailer is and I remember when I interviewed the founders and I had said, I'm sure some people have a problem with this, like, you know, not to call it Utah, but I'm sure like in some places in Utah, they wouldn't want to sell a bitchin' sauce. And so they said, yeah, you know, we had to change the name for certain stores and retailers. And we changed the name to this sauce is nuts or something like that, something along those lines. And they said that that name and that product sold like 50% less than Bitchin' Sauce. Like if they did a comparison of, you know, the two brands or the two naming variations sat next to each other, the Bitchin' Sauce would always kill it as compared to the other one.
[00:08:13] Jacqui Brugliera: It goes to show you what's in a name and why organizations protect their trademark so carefully, because it has so much to do with the success of their brand.
[00:08:23] Ray Latif: Gee, Melissa, that's a really good- Do you run a podcast or something? That's a really, really, really good segue. You know, I didn't want to lead off with Momofuku because we've been talking about it quite a bit, but it turns out that we're coming to a good conclusion, I would say. David Chang, on his own podcast last Friday, announced that they will no longer, Momofuku that is, enforce the chili crunch trademark. He had said, and this is the statement that he released on the podcast and otherwise, first and foremost, I want to apologize to everyone in the AAPI community, that is Asian American Pacific Islander community, who has been hurt or feels like I've marginalized them or put a ceiling on them by our actions. Which I think is a very important thing for him to say. He also followed up by saying, there is a lot of people that are upset, customers, and that's the last thing, literally the last thing that I wanted to happen. Yeah, I mean, I feel for Momofuku and David Chang in that, like, this was probably something that kept them up at night for two, three weeks. And I'm sure people are like, well, good, it should have. But, you know, I think they were between a rock and a hard place. And I think when it came down to it, they went with their heart instead of maybe what their lawyers were telling them to do. And it's, it's a good, like I said, I think it's a good positive conclusion.
[00:09:50] Jacqui Brugliera: Thank goodness. I mean, I think David Chang has done so much to elevate Asian cuisine. I've always been such a big fan of his restaurants and the product line. But I went to actually go use his chili hot honey on some pizza, and I felt kind of bad about it before he. It just made me feel bummed that he was trying to sort of like, you know, take all the winnings, if you will, for himself. So I'm so glad he made that decision because the hot honey is really good on pizza and I don't want to stop using it.
[00:10:22] Ray Latif: You know, that's the last thing, literally the last thing I want to do either, which is stop using Momofuku products. Not that I was thinking about doing that, but I'm sure it would have been a little bit of the I feel kind of bad, you know, for Homia and for This Little goat and some of these The Bramins out there that are affected by, you know, these cease and desist letters. But yeah, I think this was the right thing. And Mike and John, when they were here last week, and they're both on vacation right now, one in Mexico, he's in Cabo, John's in Cabo, and Mike's in Puerto Rico getting some sun, good for them. They were pretty steamed. They were pretty, you know, emotional about this.
[00:11:02] Jacqui Brugliera: That sentiment of being bummed that somebody that you appreciated and whose art or, you know, food or whatever it is you liked, it goes a long way. It's like, you know, if your favorite comedian, suddenly you find out they have like something horrible going on. For me, I just can't watch it anymore. It just doesn't, it just doesn't feel right. So I'm, again, I'm so glad that they, they changed their tune.
[00:11:27] Ray Latif: What do they say? Never meet your heroes? Have you ever met your hero, Jackie?
[00:11:31] Melissa Traverse: I don't even know who are my heroes. I needed to define that.
[00:11:35] Ray Latif: Yeah.
[00:11:36] Melissa Traverse: Who are your heroes?
[00:11:37] Ray Latif: Okay. So I will say that, not to get too like mushy mushy about this, but I would say, you know, people in my family are my biggest heroes, I would say. Okay. But outside of my family, one of my earliest heroes, and everyone knows this, it was Peter Tmarkin from Press Your Luck, the host, the original host of Press Your Luck. He's had a big influence on me and a big influence on, you know, I guess how I want to be in the world and my public persona. And it was so great because I got an opportunity to speak with the new host of Press Your Luck, Elizabeth Banks, the actress, the director, the producer and host of Press Your Luck last week. She is the co-owner of a canned wine brand called Archer Roose. So I met with her and Marion Leitner, who are the co-owners of The Bramins. And what an amazing interview it was. I was so excited to sit down with both of them. And we had an amazing conversation that could have gone on for five hours, but ended up being about 45 minutes. And I'm really, really excited to share it with our audience.
[00:12:39] Jacqui Brugliera: So sometimes it's okay to meet your heroes.
[00:12:41] Ray Latif: Well, I actually, I was castigating Elizabeth Banks as she stole my job. So I said, I got a bone to pick with you, Elizabeth. I literally said that. We might, we might have to cut that part. I fall out by saying that I'm jealous because it was my dream job to host the new Press Your Luck and, but maybe she'll be nice and, you know, give me the job when she's done with it. Not that I'm planning to leave BevNET, folks, you know.
[00:13:06] Melissa Traverse: Maybe you can co-host, you know, special guest.
[00:13:09] Ray Latif: Yeah.
[00:13:09] Melissa Traverse: Right.
[00:13:10] Ray Latif: I got to tell you, at this point in the show, I don't know how I'm still going because I just, I think about all the illness that is still out there. You know, all these kids going to school, getting the flu. We were just talking about this before the show, you know, getting the strep, some cases getting pneumonia. That's why it's so important. to be healthy before every episode of Taste Radio. And the best way for me to do that is to get my dose of Amuse. Amuse, folks, is a dietary and food ingredient clinically shown to stimulate immune function at the cellular level. Incorporate Amuse into your innovation strategy and help your consumers optimize their health throughout the year. Learn more at amusehealth.com. That's I-M-M-U-S-E health.com. We are very happy that Amuse is the presenting sponsor of this episode of Taste Radio.
[00:14:01] Jacqui Brugliera: That plus your green juice and you're pretty much invincible. I saw you walk in with it. Yeah. Did you see this? I did. I have it with me today.
[00:14:07] Ray Latif: I have in my hand a 32 ounce bottle of Evolution Fresh's Organic Green Devotion. I've been sipping straight out the bottle, folks. This is good stuff.
[00:14:15] Melissa Traverse: Will that be gone by the end of the day? Like, is that how much you drink in a day? Sometimes.
[00:14:19] Ray Latif: Sometimes I will drink an entire 32 ounce bottle of green juice. Probably not today, but I've Give it a good dent. I'll put a dent into this. I'm going to have a little sip right now.
[00:14:32] Jacqui Brugliera: You know what I fell in love with? I think it was BevNET Live. I went to Erewhon and I got their celery and lemon juice. And I know celery juice was a big thing, but man, do I just love celery juice. I think it's delicious.
[00:14:45] Ray Latif: Celery juice, and there's a bunch of celery juice in this and a lot of other green juices that I drink. It gives a mouthfeel that is almost creamy. I want to say it's like, it's, it's surprisingly viscous. You would think that celery juice is just like watery, like a lot of other juices, but it's, it's got a, it's got a creaminess to it that you wouldn't expect.
[00:15:05] Jacqui Brugliera: I feel like I can just feel the inflammation draining from my body when I drink it. Just like clinging in to all your cells and detoxing you. At the cellular level as well.
[00:15:15] Ray Latif: At the cellular level, exactly. People ask me, they're like, oh, do you use green juice in smoothies? I'm not really a big smoothie person. But if I were a smoothie person, I would want to try a smoothie with this new product that we got in the office called Pecana. Well, it's a brand actually, and Pecana is, as you might guess, a maker of pecan milk. These are made from American pecans. And they have two varieties, both that come in the 32-ounce Tetra Pak cartons. One is an unsweetened variety, and the other one is a vanilla variety. No added sugar, although it says it's not a low-calorie food, interestingly enough. And it says to shake well. Natural sediment and coloring occur. This is a beautiful product. I love this.
[00:16:02] Jacqui Brugliera: It's beautiful and pecans, I believe pecans are naturally high in fat, so I'd guess that it has a really nice creamy texture.
[00:16:11] Ray Latif: Interesting. I'm trying to look for, okay, total fat per cup of pecan milk or pecanna more specifically, you get 12 grams. So that's 15% of your daily value. Saturated fat, 1.5 grams, which is eight. But this is like the good kind of saturated fat, right? It's healthy fats.
[00:16:29] Jacqui Brugliera: And I also appreciate that the milk is coming from a pecan, which seems like it should be milked sometimes.
[00:16:37] Ray Latif: Did you say a pecan that should be milked?
[00:16:38] Jacqui Brugliera: A pecan seems like it should be milked.
[00:16:41] Ray Latif: Oh, I see. Like cats.
[00:16:43] Jacqui Brugliera: Like cats, right. I was going to say, sometimes it shows in whatever you'll see in milk being made out of something. And I always think of Meet the Fockers where, um, you know, can you milk me? Yeah.
[00:16:54] Ray Latif: Yeah.
[00:16:54] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah.
[00:16:55] Ray Latif: Yes. A cat has nipples. You didn't say it. I just said, okay, I'll stop saying that.
[00:16:59] Jacqui Brugliera: I'm never going to be invited back to do banter ever again.
[00:17:03] Ray Latif: No, I appreciate the fact that you intimated that cats have nipples. That's good stuff right there. That's what they call good banter. No, but I really love, I mean, this, the sort of the purity of the product comes through on the front of pack. You have a small pecan tree. By the way, did you say, you said pecan, I said pecan, but I'm saying pecan and pecan. I say pecan. Pecan?
[00:17:30] Melissa Traverse: Pecan sounds very affirming to me.
[00:17:33] Ray Latif: It sounds very Brahmin.
[00:17:33] Melissa Traverse: Yeah.
[00:17:35] Ray Latif: Yeah. Yeah. Like a half and half with my pecans, you know. I never, I actually never knew The Bramins accent existed until I heard someone say, well, the Kennedys were famous for The Bramins accent, but Hoff and Hoff, Hoff and Hoff.
[00:17:52] Jacqui Brugliera: My mother has a little bit of it. She says Hoff and Hoff and Boff.
[00:17:58] Ray Latif: That's serious. That's serious. Anyway, back to Bacana, which is spelled P-E-C-A-N-A. So it's just a very clean front of pack. It's very clear which variety is unsweetened, which variety is made with vanilla in both color and description. And I think founder Courtney Chase has just done a fantastic job with this. I'm looking forward to speaking with her in an upcoming episode of Elevator Talk. Tune in for that one soon. Jackie at Coachella, you got to get your camping gear all set. You got to get your tent all set, but you got to make sure that your snacks and beverages are set as well. I'm curious as to what you had for snacks and beverages. I'm curious because I know what it is, but I want to share with our audience.
[00:18:45] Melissa Traverse: Okay. You're leading, you're leading me in.
[00:18:46] Ray Latif: Yeah.
[00:18:49] Melissa Traverse: So. So, I had Say So, which is very convenient when you're camping because Say So creates these sachets, kind of like a teabag, where you put it into, you know, a spirit and water and you just kind of let it soak and it infuses it with all of the flavors of a nice cocktail. So this one's their Skinny Cardamom Paluma. And yeah, it just says it's a ready to make cocktail sachet. And then you just have to add three ounces of cold water and one and a half ounces of spirits for three minutes. So, you know, I was just making some fancy cocktails at the campsite and everyone was very impressed with my skills.
[00:19:30] Ray Latif: Did you bring, I was going to say nips, small bottles of spirits.
[00:19:35] Jacqui Brugliera: Thank goodness.
[00:19:35] Ray Latif: Yeah. Right. Uh, small bottles of spirits we'll call them to mix them. Or did you have full size bottles that you could use?
[00:19:42] Melissa Traverse: I had full size bottles, but you're not allowed to bring glass. So it wasn't the fanciest setup. I had water bottles just full of booze and I had to label them to make sure that I wasn't like taking a swig from a water bottle thinking it was water.
[00:19:55] Ray Latif: Oh boy. Interesting.
[00:19:57] Jacqui Brugliera: How do you say The Bramins again? Say so? Say so. Okay.
[00:20:01] Ray Latif: If you say so.
[00:20:02] Jacqui Brugliera: Here's the sachet or sachet. I'm so interested in the, um, in the say so sachet. So did you find that the, the ingredients in there infused well, like, did you really get a concentrated flavor from that? Yeah. Yeah, I did. So cool. I did a good job.
[00:20:24] Melissa Traverse: And yeah, you can see there's a lot, like, it doesn't look like a traditional teabag. There's like lots of, lots of goodies in there.
[00:20:30] Jacqui Brugliera: Very nice.
[00:20:31] Melissa Traverse: Yeah. And then every morning I was actually drinking a Gorgi because, you know, late nights you need some energy in the morning, but without the jitters. And, you know, I wanted to also be glowing because I had to keep up with the influencers. Yeah. So, yeah, I was drinking Gorgi.
[00:20:47] Ray Latif: Gorgia was founded by two folks who are quite familiar with the influencer scene, right? I mean, you interviewed them for Community Call also, right?
[00:20:54] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah, absolutely. So one of the founders, Michelle, had founded a very successful lingerie brand and they used influencers to build that. And then Maddie Lieber came from Facebook and Google and certainly knows all of the ins and outs around how to get exposure.
[00:21:13] Ray Latif: There you go. Now, did you buy the Gorgia or were they handing it out at Coachella?
[00:21:17] Melissa Traverse: I took it from the office. What? I mean, you do it all the time, Ray.
[00:21:23] Ray Latif: It's not like I have a box of stuff that I brought.
[00:21:26] Melissa Traverse: You took things from the office?
[00:21:28] Ray Latif: I tried to pick up this box of stuff. And it broke. And the box was filled with so much stuff that it actually literally just broke.
[00:21:34] Jacqui Brugliera: That's how many goodies you're hiding away.
[00:21:37] Ray Latif: Yeah.
[00:21:37] Jacqui Brugliera: I see that you have Mission Cocktails in there. I think they do such a fabulous, fabulous job. I just love their product.
[00:21:45] Ray Latif: Mission Cocktails is a brand of bottled, multi-serve cocktails based in, I believe, where in California? California. They're based in California. I'm forgetting exactly where. Ventura, California. The founders participated in our cocktail showdown in December of last year at BevNET Live. And this really made an impression among the judges and a lot of other folks that were a part of the audience. This is their newest variety, which is a jalapeno pineapple margarita. Crafted with premium tequila, orange liqueur, lime, jalapeno, and pineapple. It comes in a 375 milliliter glass bottles, 25% alcohol by volume. It has a beautiful, very tropical color that you can see. It's a clear bottle. Yeah, this is delicious stuff. They make fantastic products and everything they make is just top notch. Thanks so much to Marcin and Amit, or Amit, excuse me, who are the founders, co-founders of Mission Craft Cocktails. Would you, would you like This Little?
[00:22:45] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah.
[00:22:47] Ray Latif: Sharing is caring.
[00:22:48] Jacqui Brugliera: Thank you so much. The bottle is beautiful and they have such a fresh flavor in a shelf stable mixer. I don't know how they do it.
[00:22:56] Ray Latif: I think part of their mission is to make sure that they're using the highest quality ingredients, which I think a lot of bottled cocktails, historically at least, have not done. But yeah, it's grape brand for sure.
[00:23:12] Jacqui Brugliera: Proof is in the margarita, the jalapeno.
[00:23:15] Ray Latif: Exactly, exactly. I was very happy to receive samples of a new line of pouched aiolis. that was just launched by Haven's Kitchen. Haven's Kitchen was founded by Allie Kane, Allison Kane. They market marinades and dressings that are sold in pouches as well, which are all refrigerated. These aiolis, fantastically, if I can use that word, are all shelf-stable.
[00:23:45] Jacqui Brugliera: And they use chickpea aquafaba, right? Chickpea water. I believe those are vegan.
[00:23:51] Ray Latif: Yeah, so the ingredients in these products are, the first ingredient is sunflower oil. You need oil, obviously, to make mayonnaise aioli. Water, chickpea broth, water and chickpeas, which is agufaba, cane sugar, distilled vinegar, ginger juice, and then all the rest of the ingredients that make up the flavors of each individual variety. The varieties include a chili bang-bang aioli, not to be confused with chili crisp bang-bang aioli. Too soon? Zesty jalapeno aioli and a sunshine chili aioli. I think they even have more flavors than that. And these are the ones that I was lucky to find in the office. They have an herby yuzu aioli. And that's the only one that I didn't, that I didn't mention. So well done, Allie. Well done to you and the team. I'm really excited to use all of them all at the same time, which I told her I was going to do. I was going to drizzle everything all into one sandwich all at once. So.
[00:24:44] Jacqui Brugliera: I will say too, that yuzu is a flavor that I saw pop up quite a bit at Expo West. So they've got that in their corner as well.
[00:24:53] Ray Latif: Yeah. How about you, Jackie? Do you see yuzu? You too?
[00:24:56] Melissa Traverse: Yeah, I saw a lot of yuzu, uh, all over the place. I mean, it's a great flavor that you can use in both food and beverage, you know, like wherever you're kind of thinking about citrus, it's just like a good option. And it's something that's trending, especially with like the increase in education around like Asian flavors and profiles.
[00:25:17] Ray Latif: Totally. All right. So from Yuzu to Dandelion, they kind of align. They're, they're, they're both yellow.
[00:25:23] Jacqui Brugliera: Anti-inflammatory, perhaps?
[00:25:25] Ray Latif: Perhaps. We can go there.
[00:25:26] Jacqui Brugliera: I'm just guessing.
[00:25:27] Ray Latif: I don't actually know that for sure. But you're sipping on something that's a beautiful, that's a beautiful can.
[00:25:30] Jacqui Brugliera: It's a beautiful can. It's Heal Tea. I have the Peppermint and Dandelion.
[00:25:35] Ray Latif: What's the name of The Bramins?
[00:25:36] Jacqui Brugliera: Heal Tea. How do you spell it?
[00:25:38] Ray Latif: Oh, Heal as in H E A L T E A.
[00:25:42] Jacqui Brugliera: Isn't it heals all of your maladies perhaps?
[00:25:45] Ray Latif: I guess so. Yeah.
[00:25:46] Jacqui Brugliera: So this is the peppermint and dandelion sparkling botanical infusion. I love that these are caffeine free because I don't always want a bunch of caffeine in the things that I'm drinking. And I oftentimes make that mistake in our fridge. I'll grab something and drink it and then realize, oh no, I've had more caffeine. But, um, and they also don't use any, the only sweetener that they use in this is maple syrup. So they don't have any stevia or monk fruit or anything. And it has a really simple, clean flavor. They also have some other really interesting skews as well. They've got a ginger and chamomile, a nettle and rosemary, which sounded really interesting. I know that nettle is, I don't know, supposedly it has all of these healing properties as well.
[00:26:30] Ray Latif: That was a mushroom, right?
[00:26:31] Jacqui Brugliera: I think stinging nettle, I think it's like a plant. And, um, I looked it up and it's been used for centuries to, um, help stop bleeding, apparently wound and burn healing. But then I think it probably has all of the anti-inflammatory properties. And I think it's an antioxidant similar to dandelion and that dandelion is an antioxidant. It supports liver health and inflammation, but I think it's just delightful and refreshing.
[00:27:00] Ray Latif: Just to clarify, nettle is definitely not a mushroom. As you pointed out, Melissa, it is a plant. And it is, as you pointed out, used to treat painful muscles, joints, eczema, arthritis, gout, and anemia. Okay, there you go.
[00:27:14] Jacqui Brugliera: What more could you ask for?
[00:27:16] Ray Latif: That is a super food. That is a super food.
[00:27:19] Melissa Traverse: It's great to see just dandelion root and like nettle and all these very like functional plants that usually you only find in the tea, like non ready to drink, but tea sachets that you can, you know, create your own tea at home and a lot of functional non-caffeinated herbal teas. and it's great to see more and more brands creating these like ready to drink versions because again there's so many caffeinated teas but I think still there's an opportunity for more functional teas.
[00:27:51] Ray Latif: I would agree and You got to stand out on show first and foremost. I mean, you got to get someone to want to pick up the can and learn more about it. And the color of that can of heel tea is so beautiful. It reminds me of the color of Robin's eggs. You know that? beautiful blue, natural color that you see in nature like that.
[00:28:13] Jacqui Brugliera: Exactly.
[00:28:13] Ray Latif: I'm like, Oh, it just reminds me of a wonderful spring day.
[00:28:16] Jacqui Brugliera: When they picked the color from the Pantone book, I think it said Robin's Egg Blue.
[00:28:23] Ray Latif: It very much looks like that.
[00:28:24] Melissa Traverse: And it looks very clean. Like from where I'm sitting, it just looks very, very clean.
[00:28:29] Ray Latif: A quick shout out to Ringa, the founder of Ringa in particular, who is Stephanie McGregor. Stephanie joined us recently for an episode of Elevator Talk, and she sent us some of her delicious beverages. Ringa is a maker of plant-powered hydration beverages that are made with, you guessed it, Moringa. They're also made with apple cider and vinegar. This flavor I have is lemon and ginger. They have a couple of new flavors on deck as well. This is one of the most delicious tasting products I've ever had. And I've talked about this. I think it's hard for people to think about a Moringa and apple cider vinegar beverage as something that's going to taste good, but Stephanie just nailed the flavor of this product. I encourage folks, if you're out there and you see this in the wild, to pick up a can, because again, if you see this on shelf, you might question it a little bit. You might say, I don't know if this is for me, but once you taste it, you'll be happy you did. And then, you know, you think about the functional attributes and the benefits of it as well. Just nailed it. Moringa, well done.
[00:29:28] Jacqui Brugliera: Stephanie is so smart. She's been in CPG for a long time and it's obvious just the way that this came out.
[00:29:36] Ray Latif: Yeah. Stephanie had come from Smashmallow and she had, she worked for a bunch of other CPG companies as well, but Smashmallow closed its doors very unexpectedly. And she went out on her own and part of going out on her own was becoming a beverage founder, a founder of Ringo. Well done. Last product, which both Jackie and I have in our hands is from a brand called Unreal. Unreal is a maker of better for you candy and snacks. These are their new chocolate covered pretzels that both Jackie and I have in our hands. We were both wondering, it's like, is this a new product? And I looked it up and yes, it is indeed new.
[00:30:15] Melissa Traverse: Mm hmm. Yeah, I mean, Unreal, a lot of people know Unreal for their better for you cleaner candies, like their better version of, you know, peanut butter cups and M&Ms. And this seems like their first foray into like snacking, like I think on their website, it says, you know, and real by the handful. They want you to like eat a lot of this. They are, you know, sweet and savory. They also have a dark chocolate coconut covered almond as well. So introducing some more options for people beyond just the standard candies. So other ways to consume chocolate in tasty ways.
[00:30:52] Ray Latif: As John Craven always points out, the easier to make everything taste better, add chocolate.
[00:30:58] Jacqui Brugliera: I can abide that. I wonder if Tom Brady approved of these chocolate-covered pretzels. Is he still involved in Beer Company? I don't think so. I remember when he was, and I thought it was a really interesting collaboration. From what I understood about Tom Brady, he only eats avocados and lightly toasted coconut oil or I don't know what.
[00:31:22] Ray Latif: But the man can crush a beer. Have you ever seen him pound a beer? He can drink a beer in like 0.5 seconds.
[00:31:27] Melissa Traverse: He drinks beer?
[00:31:28] Ray Latif: No, he doesn't. He doesn't drink a lot of beer. I think in his college days. Yeah. So he was on, um, what was that? I think he was on the Tonight Show the week after they lost the Super Bowl, the Patriots lost the Super Bowl to the Eagles, which was like, I don't know, six years ago. I think it was Jimmy Fallon was like, I heard you can chug a beer. And so they both had two mugs of beer and Tom Brady finished his in like literally 0.5 seconds. He's like, whoop, and it was gone.
[00:31:51] Melissa Traverse: Speaking of crushing beers, I saw on Instagram, Travis Kelsey graduated and as soon as he grabbed his diploma, he shotgunned a beer and then just slammed it on the ground.
[00:32:03] Ray Latif: So must be a football thing. Seems appropriate for someone of his personality. And just to follow up on that, Rob Gronkowski, the famous tight end who played for the Patriots and also the Bucs, Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Threw out the first pitch at yesterday's Red Sox game. You know what he did? This grunt. He took the ball and he spiked it. He didn't even throw it to home plates.
[00:32:26] Melissa Traverse: Also on brand for him.
[00:32:27] Ray Latif: Very on Brad Avery on brand. Yeah, no, Grok is great and that was fun. Alright, it's time to get to our featured interview for this episode. As I mentioned at the top of the show, Laura Merritt is the CMO of Diageo Beer Company, which markets Guinness, the iconic brand best known for its draft Irish stout beer. I met with Laura at Expo West 2024, where Guinness was highlighting its Zero variety, a non-alcoholic beer brewed to approximate the classic taste, mouthfeel, and color of the original liquid. In her interview, Laura spoke about the reason that Diageo brought Guinness to Expo West, why she compares the rise in consumer demand for non-alcoholic beer to that of a popular food trend, how adding a zero variety gives The Bramins optionality, and how Beer Company communicates value and overcomes potential skepticism about the product. Hey folks, it's Ray with Taste Radio. I am here at Expo West 2024, a rambunctious Expo West 2024. And sitting in front of me right now is Laura Merritt, who is the CMO of Diageo Beer Company. Laura, great to see you.
[00:33:43] Diageo Beer: Great to see you too. Thank you so much for swinging by the booth.
[00:33:46] Ray Latif: Did I use that word correctly, rambunctious, or is that specific to a person?
[00:33:49] Diageo Beer: I think it qualifies in this particular instance because it is wall-to-wall with people hopped up on sugar, coffee, and all the other things, but naturally, of course.
[00:33:59] Ray Latif: Yes. Hopped up on hops, too.
[00:34:01] Diageo Beer: Hopped up on hops if you're at the Guinness booth.
[00:34:03] Ray Latif: Yeah, exactly. We are at the Guinness booth here at Expo West, and I'm sure people are like, wait a minute, why is Guinness at Expo West? I am saying, thank God Guinness is at Expo West because Guinness, I've said this on the podcast before, is my favorite beer of all time. When anyone ever asked me, what do you want to drink? I said, do you have Guinness? Because it's so delicious. It's so consistent. And it's more refreshing than a lot of beers that you might try. I know that's counterintuitive for people listening who have never had a Guinness, but it is amazing. You came on board as the CMO of Diageo Beer Company in June of last year.
[00:34:40] Diageo Beer: That's correct.
[00:34:41] Ray Latif: Yeah. And you have a long history in the food and beverage industry and CPG in general. Just talk a bit about your background.
[00:34:47] Diageo Beer: Absolutely. So I've spent the majority of my career in natural food, which is a total pleasure. At this point, I'm definitely an Expo West veteran. I've worked with iconic brands like Kettle Brand Potato Chips, Kind Snack Bars. And really, I think the highlight so far is being able to bring Guinness to its very first premier Expo West.
[00:35:08] Ray Latif: And quite a booth you have here. We literally have a wall of Guinness Zero, a beautiful neon sign that is probably projecting across my face right now. And I wonder if it's a good halo or not. Anyway, we'll get to that later. It's a vibe.
[00:35:21] Diageo Beer: I think blue looks good on you.
[00:35:22] Ray Latif: I am a blue shirt kind of guy. There you go. Yeah. But Guinness Zero is the biggest reason you're here at Expo West, I would think. I mean, you know, the rise of non-alcoholic beer, the rise of great tasting non-alcoholic beer has made a huge impact on the beer industry overall, and I think opened up opportunities for people who either stopped drinking beer for one reason or another, or just never drank beer in the first place.
[00:35:45] Diageo Beer: Absolutely. I mean, Guinness should be at Expo West. It is such a huge opportunity, frankly, to get in front of 100,000 consumers, all of the biggest retailers in the country, and really just show people that we have an amazing beverage. So here at the booth, we have our own version of the Coke Pepsi Challenge happening, and we are challenging people to be able to distinguish between our core Guinness product and our non-ALC Guinness product. And what I'll tell you is that it's pretty neck and neck. You'd be shocked at the number of people who cannot distinguish between the two products. And that really brings us to why we're at Expo West, which is You know our tagline, it's a lovely day for a Guinness. And we want everybody to have an opportunity to enjoy a Guinness. And so you've got to have a Guinness for every occasion. Sometimes that's for folks who don't drink alcohol at all. Sometimes that's for folks who are the designated driver. And sometimes if you're spending the whole day out at a bar enjoying sports, you got to alternate a regular Guinness with a non-alcoholic Guinness just to get through the rest of your sports day.
[00:36:50] Ray Latif: In our industry, or maybe in my small bubble, we call that flex sober.
[00:36:54] Diageo Beer: Yes.
[00:36:55] Ray Latif: Yes.
[00:36:55] Diageo Beer: I hadn't heard anyone say flex sober, but I have been saying that this entire movement to me feels a lot like being a flexitarian. And I've been at Expo West, as I mentioned, for now more than 10 years. And a few years ago, that was really the vibe. Everybody was either all the way from, no, I don't eat meat at all, to no, I'm just trying to incorporate less meat in our diet. Well, that's exactly where we are with alcohol. You see a lot of people who are trying to do a little bit less or abstaining, and especially with our younger generation. I mean, Gen Z has a completely different relationship with alcohol than previous generations.
[00:37:32] Ray Latif: Yeah, I want to get to Gen Z and how they relate to The Bramins overall, whether it's Zero or otherwise. But I think, you know, the optionality of non-alcoholic beer is something that didn't necessarily exist five years ago. We know The Bramins that are out there, Athletic, Guinness Zero, Heineken has a Zero product, and all of them are contributing to more options for consumers. But in your experience and based on your research, when are people drinking a Guinness Zero?
[00:38:02] Diageo Beer: I would say it varies a lot. I mean, you see people because of the overall content of the Guinness, which always frankly has been a more mindful choice for folks just because of the low sugar content, because it has fewer carbs than a lot of the other competitors. This has always been a more mindful beer. So it's a natural halo for us to extend to zero, which is a different form of mindfulness and mindful consumption. So in terms of when people are drinking this, you truly see people substituted everywhere you see people drinking Guinness. Because the taste is so similar, because in a pint glass they look identical, we see all the usage occasions almost being substituted like for like. Now, of course, dry January, huge uptick. Sober October, huge uptick. So we certainly shine at particular moments like that. If someone's perhaps training for a marathon or really working on their physical fitness, that's a moment that definitely gears towards a zero versus an original. But that's the beauty of this beverage is it plays anywhere our original stop place.
[00:39:08] Ray Latif: Does it expand the opportunities for more people to drink Guinness? Or do you see it cannibalizing existing Guinness sales?
[00:39:16] Diageo Beer: We absolutely see it as an expansion opportunity. One, expanding who we're even reaching as a brand. So for example, Gen Z in particular appreciates that we're a welcoming brand. We're an inclusive brand. You can participate in the social scene with a Guinness Zero. So we have this whole halo, even for our core product, just because of that we allow full participation. Anybody can enjoy a Guinness Zero.
[00:39:44] Ray Latif: I also imagine the introduction of Guinness Zero gives Diageo an opportunity to go places that it hadn't necessarily gone before. Not every Whole Foods store sells alcohol, but I was in a Whole Foods recently in Cambridge, Massachusetts. They sell alcohol, but the number of four-packs of regular Guinness and the number of four-packs of Guinness Zero were equal. And I actually think that there are probably more people buying the Zero, interestingly enough. And then they wore the full stripe. But how much more business or how much of your business do you think you can do in say natural and specialty retail chains versus like traditional liquor stores and beer stores?
[00:40:23] Diageo Beer: We've got a huge opportunity there, and I would say that that will be a focus of where we want to look to gain distribution. Because to your point, we're pretty much in all the traditional outlets, but this does open up something new for us. In most states, it even opens up opportunities for us to sell directly on Amazon or other e-commerce opportunities. So we are able to work with it really differently, and we're building out that muscle. I mean, Giagio as a whole really wants to make sure that We have beverages that are non-ALC, but for these consumers who still want to celebrate life, which is our motto as a company. So with us at this trade show is Seedlip, for example. We have an investment in Ritual. And so non-ALC is core to our future as a company.
[00:41:10] Ray Latif: Again, I think this is, you know, it gives you optionality, but you don't want to sacrifice anything because of optionality. Correct. And I think we were talking about this before we hopped in the mics. Guinness is Guinness. You know, like people who know Guinness know it because it tastes a certain way. It doesn't taste like anything else. It foams a certain way. That black can is in the harp. It's just so iconic. So when people see a tweak here or there, they might be skeptical. So how do you talk to, how do you communicate that this is as high quality a product, that there are no sacrifices when it comes to this product?
[00:41:48] Diageo Beer: Well, I will say we encountered a ton of skepticism. from consumers, which is why it's so important for us to be out sampling with folks. And I will agree with you, when you have the honor and privilege on working on a brand that was born in 1759, you're going to be really careful about messing up that original and perfect formula that people have loved. What's really cool about our process to get to our non-ALC is we actually go through the exact same steps. It's the exact same ingredients. And the only part that differs is at the very end, through cold filtration, we remove the alcohol. So when people are like, oh my gosh, I can't believe that your zero tastes so much like your original stout. We're able to say, well, of course it does. It's the exact same process. We've just gently removed the alcohol at the very end. So you still get that bold, that creamy flavor with the notes of chocolate and the notes of coffee. And it's still that Guinness flavor that we're known for and that you love.
[00:42:51] Ray Latif: Was it always that process? Because I remember first trying Guinness Zero and I really enjoyed it, but I definitely noticed that there was something a little different from the full strength. Do you constantly look for ways to optimize and iterate such that it is almost, because I think, you know, you've done the Coke and Pepsi challenge here between the full strength or the original Guinness and your Zero. And yeah, I think some people can taste the difference, but are you trying to get to that point where it's utterly indistinguishable between the two?
[00:43:20] Diageo Beer: We are constantly optimizing the Guinness experience to be better and better. And that's true for Zero, but that's even true for our cans, for example. I mean, we want every single Guinness experience to feel like it's coming out of a tap in Dublin.
[00:43:39] Ray Latif: We touched on Gen Z and the fact that Gen Z doesn't drink as much alcohol as prior generations. And Guinness can be an acquired taste. It might take some time for someone to become a loyal consumer of Guinness. So when it comes to Gen Z, what is the communication strategy? And do you feel like you're talking as much about zero as you are about the original Guinness to those consumers?
[00:44:07] Diageo Beer: Gen Z, we do know, loves activities. They like to participate in events that aren't all centered around drinking. And so I will say that those breweries are great opportunities for us to do things related to Oktoberfest and support other local brewers and really tap into festivals or fun runs. And so for Gen Z, then it's about the activity and the drinking part is ancillary and additive. not the core. So that's one way we certainly reach them. And then our advertising around Xero has been really fun and light and I think shedding a different perspective on what Guinness is and who Guinness is for. We had a great commercial spot running called Singing Pints. which it's hard not to smile when you see that spot. It's literally you poke eyes and a mouth into the foam on top of your Guinness and using a straw, you blow into the top of the pint and it makes your pint sing. So we had that commercial spot too. I need a hero, which sounds a lot like I need a zero. And that did exceedingly well for us, both on TV and because it's not out, we're also able to leverage that type of advertising on TikTok, which has been a lot of fun.
[00:45:22] Ray Latif: We hear all the time that Gen Z consumers are very concerned about the environment. They want to invest their dollars in companies and brands that are responsible and use sustainable ingredients. And behind you, you know, there's a big banner talking about Guinness's investment, Diageo's investment in regenerative farming. It feels like something that you wouldn't expect from Diageo and Guinness, because why? You already have a great brand. You already have things that consumers love without that. So why invest in number one? And number two, when you are sharing that message, how do you share it in a way that actually means something to the end consumer?
[00:46:01] Diageo Beer: I think the why is Because we need everybody to step up and do what's right. And I think that...
[00:46:09] Ray Latif: Thank you for saying that.
[00:46:10] Diageo Beer: Right.
[00:46:10] Ray Latif: Because big corporations need to do good, even if it doesn't affect their top line or bottom line. Just do good, please.
[00:46:17] Diageo Beer: Absolutely. I mean, you think about the impact big corporations have, sometimes they're as effective or more effective than government in big change. I mean, you look at even the vaccines related in the pandemic, we couldn't have gotten there without private sector companies. And so the real why is because we've got to, everybody's got to, everybody's got to step up and see what they can do for sustainability. That's so core to Diageo, that's so core to Guinness. And so that's really the why. And we are, I mean, we explore every facet of our product all the way, as you mentioned, from the farming aspect to make that as sustainable as possible. But we're even looking at opportunities of lightweighting our bottles so that one, we're using less material, two, it's easier to ship them. So there's no stone that we're leaving unturned to figure out how we can make a bigger impact.
[00:47:09] Ray Latif: And then communicating the why to those consumers. How do you make them care?
[00:47:14] Diageo Beer: I will tell you one thing that I have learned in my career in natural foods is no one cares, I hate to say it, about anything unless your product is excellent. So the best thing that you can do to make consumers care is deliver an excellent product that they love. And then because they love your product, they'll feel great about what you're doing and more loyal to your brand for picking up some of those activities. So I will say that's not our first message with Guinness. I mean, we're doing all these amazing things related to sustainability, but my first message to you about Guinness isn't going to be about sustainability. It's going to be like, Taste this amazing product that is bold and creamy and has notes of coffee and chocolate. You're not going to believe how few calories it has compared to the competition. It's much more light than expected, and it's a year-round beer. Because if you lead with taste, the rest follows. And as soon as people fall in love with our product, that's my opportunity, either because then they've joined our social channels or they're just curious about a brand they love. They'll really dive in and be proud that a product that they love and support with their dollars is doing good things for the planet.
[00:48:21] Ray Latif: Thank you for being so straightforward with that, because I imagine a listener might say, a cynic might say, well, the CMO of Diageo Beer Company is going to be like, yeah, of course they care about sustainability, of course they care about these things. But I appreciate the fact that you said, look, no one cares about those things unless we have a high quality product, a product that people love first and foremost, and then get to know better down the line.
[00:48:44] Diageo Beer: Exactly. If you have a great product, then it becomes your privilege to share everything you're doing about sustainability. If you don't have a great product first, you're just shouting into the wind about all your efforts.
[00:48:56] Ray Latif: Laura, as I mentioned, I'm a huge Guinness fan and I'm just so so happy that this is a Guinness booth here at Expo West. Thank you so much for taking the time to be with me. And, you know, kudos on everything that you're doing for the beer industry, because we are living in this bit of a strange time for beer. And I think at the end of the day, people, no matter whether they're drinking alcoholic beer or otherwise, want to feel like they're drinking quality. And that was always the problem with non-alcoholic beer in the past, is the quality. And if you can make a delicious tasting, indistinguishable, zero alcohol Guinness, that's a huge win for the beer industry and a huge win for beer consumers.
[00:49:36] Diageo Beer: And I would say, do your own Guinness challenge at home. Yes. Pour a zero, pour an original, and see if you can tell the difference. Because chances are you may not be able to.
[00:49:47] Ray Latif: There you go. Laura, thank you so much again.
[00:49:50] Diageo Beer: Thanks so much for coming by.
[00:49:54] Ray Latif: That brings us to the end of this episode of Taste Radio. Thank you so much for listening. Taste Radio is a production of BevNET.com Incorporated. Our audio engineer for Taste Radio is Joe Cracci. Our technical director is Joshua Pratt, and our video editor is Ryan Galang. Our social marketing manager is Amanda Smerlinski, and our designer is Amanda Huang. Just a reminder, if you like what you hear on Taste Radio, please share the podcast with friends and colleagues. And of course, we would love it if you could review us on the Apple Podcasts app or your listening platform of choice. Check us out on Instagram. Our handle is BevNetTasteRadio. As always, for questions, comments, ideas for future podcasts, please send us an email to ask at Taste Radio.com. On behalf of the entire Taste Radio team, thank you for listening, and we'll talk to you next time.
[00:50:44] Laura Merritt: you
