Hey folks, it's Ray with Taste Radio right now. I am supremely honored to be sitting down with William H Macy and Sean Kenyon of Woody Creek Distillers. Bill, it's great to see you. Good to be here. Yeah, Sean, how are you? I'm doing great. I am so happy that we had this opportunity to sit down with both of you and for folks who are like, Hey Ray, why didn't you call William?
William? And why'd you call him Bill? Do you know him like that? I don't know you like that, but it seems like everyone calls you Bill. Yeah, that's my name. There was a great actor named Bill Macy, and so I, I've always been. Pretty careful about introducing myself as William h Macy, but all my pals call me Bill or worse, and uh, you can call me Bill.
Okay. Well, I would've only known you as Bill from a very famous movie that you starred in many years ago. Boogie Knight. That was when you were Little Bill. But that's a whole nother, we're not talking about that today. We're talking about no whiskey and whatnot. And I gotta ask Bill, before we get started, this is, uh, this kind of blew my mind.
I was on your Instagram page. Earlier, and, uh, I saw you with the legendary musician, John Oates, and I'm wondering if, uh, if a Mac and Oates album is coming out anytime soon? Uh, no. In short, no. When I joined the distillery about six years ago, the pandemic hit, so there was nothing I could do for half a year, three quarters of the year.
So I wrote a song. I play ukulele and I wrote a song about the Woody Creek Tavern here in Woody Creek of Hunter Thompson fame. And Felicity, my wife, shot it on an iPhone and we had it edited and put it out there and people liked it a lot. So that started me off with writing songs about alcohol and Woody Creek Distillers and this valley, the Roaring Fork Valley.
When we go to visit our distributors in the various states, uh, we throw a party for them and oftentimes I will sing a couple of songs, which just catches them flatfooted. They're surprised, they're embarrassed for me. They're everything. It's so much fun. It's fun and they're funny songs. So I looked out one time and there sat John Oats in the front row, and I thought that's what was missing from this gig.
I wasn't nervous enough. But he couldn't have been nicer afterwards and he asked me to open for him and that's what you saw online. I did five songs to two of his concerts. The Thrill of a Lifetime Bucket List stuff. Well, you sounded great. I didn't see you with the ukulele, but maybe I have to look a little bit deeper, but, uh, let's back up for a sec.
'cause I, I'm sure folks in our audience are thinking, Hey Ray, you know, what do you got? Bill and Sean on, and in particular Bill on the podcast for, and you know, oh, is this another celebrity distillery? Another celebrity whiskey out there? 'cause like we've seen a thousand of 'em. But that's not at all what this is about.
And I think Bill, your relationship with Woody Creek is truly an authentic one. And if, I know you've told this story a thousand times, but if you could just share a bit with our audience about how you came to be the Spokes dude and a partner with Woody Creek. I'm in Woody Creek right now. I'm looking out my window and were it not for the trees, I could see Mark Lerner's house, one of the founders of Woody Creek Distillery and beyond his house are the other two owners of it.
Uh, Marion, pat Scanlan, and um, I think I was the only celebrity within walking distance. So they came down and asked if I would, uh. It was Mark. He said, bill, I don't know if you know this, we have a distillery in Basalt. And I said, I'm gonna stop you right there. I'm in. And uh, since then I've spent a lot of time at the distillery, the aforementioned ukulele and those songs.
I was performing there and people would come in and, um, I do the regular spokesperson stuff, but I've also done barrel tastings and put out the, as I said, those signatures. I do the distillery tour. A lot of them are auctioned off to do a distillery tour with a movie star. And, um, I've learned a lot about the distilling business.
I've always been fascinated by it. That and the, well, the whole business, the whole hospitality business, I find absolutely fascinating. And I jumped at this because. When Pat and Mary and Mark started this distillery, they had three foundations to make the spirits that they want to drink to make them as fine as they can be, made without exception, without excuse, and to make them affordable for everyone.
Hmm. And they've stuck with that. So selling Woody Creek distillery products is easy because it sounds cheeky, but they are the finest spirits in America. I'm not saying there aren't others. I am saying there are none better. It just comes down to taste. No shortcuts are taken. You walk into a liquor store, a lot of those bottles up there, they're just labels, man.
It's all creative writing on the label and it's all, or much of it is sourced alcohol. You don't know where it comes from and we make the finest product that can possibly be made. I invite everyone, if you find yourself in the Roaring Fork Valley. Near Basalt, near Aspen. Come see this distillery. It is jaw dropping.
There are these Christian coral stills, kind of the finest stills made in the world, and they are magnificent. They're two and a half stories tall. It's a beautiful operation and stunning to watch, and I've spent a lot of time down there watching them. We did a million and a half pounds of potatoes last year.
Wow. Potatoes. Yeah, I'm saying, yeah. Yeah. It's not just whiskey. You're making vodka. Hence the potatoes as well. The, the original product was vodka. There you go. There you go. It would've been a little awkward if Mark came over and said, Hey Bill, we've got this distillery. And then his next line was, and after you said, Hey, I'm in.
He is like, actually, we wanna buy your property. You know, that would've been a little awkward for the conversation. Might've had a different turn at that point, but Sean. You're in Denver right now. You're not in Woody Creek, but you're up there quite a bit. Talk about your relationship with the distillery.
I've been in this industry my whole life. My mother, my father, my grandfather are all bartenders and bar owners, and I've never wanted to do anything else. And like I told you earlier, I, I went to Northeastern University and for an engineering degree with scholarships, et cetera, and I remained a bartender throughout the whole thing.
And I decided to leave because bartending is where I was really happy and surrounded by engineers is where I wasn't. And after a number of years, I started to learn about the bottles behind me because all I cared about was the hospitality edge. Just take care of people in front of me. And the bottles behind me were an insignificant part of it for so long until like food television kind of brought the consumer into a place where they cared about what was on their plate, what was in their glass, et cetera, et cetera.
And I realized. I needed to know more about the stories of what's going on behind me, so I jumped heavily into it. Now I'm a, I'm a global spirits educator. I, I've been all over the world teaching about spirits and specializing in American whiskey, and at a Denver had a cocktail week, a, a, a national cocktail week, and I was, I was working at a table at the bar and somebody, somebody, now I know it was Mary Scanlan, one of the owners of the, of the distillery.
Just dropped a bottle of, of Woody Creek vodka on the corner of my table and then walked away, said, we want you to try this, and just left. And I was working, so I, you know, I kept working. I put it in my, in my backpack and took it down to the bar. And it wasn't for like a week later where I opened the bottle and tried it and.
I've not been floored by a sip of spirit and especially vodka. I mean, if you know how a lot of cocktail bartenders feel about vodka, I've not been floored by a sip of spirit like I was up until that point. But first of all, I had to look at the bottle and make sure this is vodka, right? I mean, it was obviously potato to me and, and having been a taster for years, like.
Depending on the particular vodka, you can differentiate potato from grain, from from grape, you know, or whatever source material to making the vodka out of. And I, I was, I was blown away. Made a couple cocktails with it, but really just loved it on a rock with a lemon twist. Just a simple preparation. And then I went forward to look into the distillery and saw, like Bill said, that these were people that cut no corners, that, you know, had the resources to make everything right from the beginning.
You know, they grew their own potatoes for the vodka, everything for the gin that could be was sourced in Colorado. You know, they were laying whiskey barrels down at the time, but they didn't have a whiskey released yet. And I decided that I wanted to work with this brand. I had never attached my wagon to any, any brand before.
I remained a free agent. A lot of the time that I was in, that I was working in, in bars, you know, brand ambassadors, et cetera, et cetera, never really did it. But I love this brand and their story so much that I wanted to be a part of it because it was authentic. You know, it wasn't somebody going around the country masquerading as a distiller that had never distilled anything before.
You know, it was a, a real product from real people making, you know, growing their own. Source materials and, and sourcing locally and being transparent about it all, which at that time and period there was a lot of fake stories behind a lot of spirits and, and I was like, I really want to be involved with them because they are as authentic as gay they can be.
And like Bill said, some of the finest spirit I ever tasted in bottle. Mm-hmm. You both bring so much gravitas and experience to Woody Creek and in different ways, and I know both of your roles and you've both alluded to this. Education is such an important part of getting people aware of and excited about and inspired by these products.
What has been your most effective way of getting people excited about Woody Creek? I'll start even with the storytelling aspect is, is that it's not a story, it's not a contrived marketing creation of who the people are and you know who the farmers are and, and having some stand in for farmers, et cetera.
It's, it's people who are making it. From the beginning with the right approach. That kind of authenticity means a lot to bartenders when you know, people have tried to fool them for years with their stories, you know, et cetera. Especially with some of these really major brands. And then the spears have to hold up to that story.
I mean, you can have a beautiful, authentic story and then throw them some spirits that nobody, you know, nobody knows what they're doing and they're not, they're not fantastic. But we have the unique position of having both those things intact. The story and the spirits. Hearing both of you talk about the distillery and its products is very convincing for me.
I'm in the trade though. I am a consumer, but I feel like for someone in the trade, it's a little bit of an easier sell. But has it been, has that kind of story been just as effective to a consumer facing audience? Do you feel like you're reaching consumers as effectively Bill as you would folks in the trade?
I hope so. One of the things I've got going for me is that, uh, I, you know, I did this TV series for over a decade where I played a notorious drunk. I'm talking about Shameless and Frank. I thought you were talking about, uh, curious George, but I know Shameless that's the one, right? Yeah, it was, it's just interesting that, um, you know, I think they come to see Frank Gallagher pitching alcohol, but, um.
One of the things we've done a lot, and it's really effective, I've done it with our salespeople. We go into a bar and we bring four or five of our products and we say, could we taste your favorite rye, your favorite gin, your favorite vodka, your favorite bourbon? And they pour little glasses. And then we pour our little glasses and we taste theirs.
And we say, and they taste ours. And we go all the way down the line and then we say, thanks for your time. And they order. They order because ours taste better. That's an effective sell. I mean, you know, liquid to lips. I'm sure you know, you both have heard and probably said that phrase a million times 'cause that's what you say in the beverage industry is so critically important.
Mm. I think, you know, in this day and age everyone talks about premium. People are willing to pay for a premium experience. A premium product. A premium story. But I loved when you talked about affordability bill, and I think that's an important component in building a successful brand as well, which is.
You know, people are unfortunately tight with their cash for one reason or another these days. There's a lot of folks who want a premium experience, but just can't pay for it. And Sean, I I, I, you know, as, as someone who sells cocktails for a living and someone who I think, you know, will try to advocate for brands that you feel strongly about, how do you factor affordability?
How do you talk to consumers about premium and affordability and them being aligned in the same brand and the same products? Right. You know, first of all, the word craft is a, you know, basically means small distillery. I mean, when you get down to it, you know, it's, it's a, made it a much smaller scale than the big guys.
Craft is not necessarily good. You know, you're more likely in a lot of ways to find quality spirits from some of these bigger brands and, and you know, some of the most iconic brands in the world are iconic because they're fantastic from the beginning. You know, craft distillers have, have a, a bigger challenge.
You know, they have to, they have to make a great product and they have to jump in the same pool as those big boys. So if you come to, to market with a product that is equal to or better to the than those, you still have to, to gain visibility. One of the biggest. Drawbacks for most craft distillers is that.
Because it costs them so much to make. They're in a position where they have to charge a lot for their product. Our vision from the beginning was making an affordable product with quality ingredients, but a lot of these craft distillers have to charge 60, $70 a bottle. And you look, and you know, Colorado is full of craft distillers.
I mean there's, you know, craft distillers kind of, it followed the beer industry. You know, we're working with a lot of the same base materials. You know, from going from brewing to to distilling isn't a huge leap. You go into any liquor store here in in Denver, and you'll see a row of Colorado distilleries and very few of those bottles are under $50, and to the everyday consumer.
To get their hands on something that they've never had before. A $50 and plus bottle is a special occasion bottle to them. Mm-hmm. You know, we're, we're swinging with the big boys in that same, in that same category of the, you know, the twenties and thirties of the bottle. So we're sitting right there with them at the same or better quality in most aspects.
So the, you know, not just getting it to their lips, but getting it in their hands and getting it on their shelves is the first step. I think we have to fight this. Sean, maybe you mentioned this. You can go in there and we have a tendency, I know I do. Do you want the $50 bottle of bourbon or do you wanna splurge and get the $80 bottle when the reality is the $50 bottle, it is dollars to donuts as good or better?
Right? The pricing and this stuff, it's not reliable just because you're spending more. Doesn't mean that you're getting better. And the second thing that I find really interesting is that especially guys, they had a shot of some bourbon or rye or vodka in college, and by the time they're out of college and in their mid twenties, it takes dynamite.
To get them to try a different bourbon. They just, it's, it is by rote. They walk in and say, give me a blah, blah. That's what they always say. So we're up against that a little bit, but that's what I'm underpaid for. I think it's a common story and, and we have talked about this bill, is that, you know, some of the best whiskeys in the world aren't the most expensive whiskeys in the world.
And I think the mistake that a lot. The mistake or the necessity by a lot of craft distillers is they're pricing themselves in that premium range because it makes sense bottle to bottle with, with a small amount. Profitability and, and trying to make that at a 70, $80 bottle, but I could think of five $25 bottles right now.
That would be way better than five different $80 bottles, $70 bottles at that point, especially in American whiskey. American whiskey is something that for years it's made, you know, obviously made in America, you know, it's, it's made locally. The base ingredients are not expensive ingredients. You know, it's always been an industry brand or you know, an everyday man's drink.
It's not a cognac. It's not a high end single malt scotch. It's a working man's drink In that way, you know, a working person's drink. For that reason, you know, you want to keep that affordable. If you want it to be accessible to many people, you want it to be, you want it to be accessible. And to some people, you know, a 25, $30 bottle is still an expensive bottle, but you want there to be a value in that $25.
And I've always believed with American whiskey that you know, the higher you get, just the only difference is the price. You know, I have a whiskey in my, well at my bars that I won't mention that's $14 a bottle. And it can stand up to a lot of the, a lot of the ones that are in the twenties. Both of you have been in this business for some time now, Sean, you've been in the business for a little bit longer than Bill, but when it comes to Woody Creek, I wonder what's one thing about the business itself that's really surprised you, that hasn't been something that you expected?
Let's start with Bill. Well, I, I think I, I knew this, I got fascinated in college with, uh, scotch whiskeys. And I read a couple of books about how they make it. So going in, I knew that the process is simple. Really, it hasn't changed for a couple of thousand years. It's so old, we don't even know who invented it.
But to go in and see our distillery and the simple process writ large with science, truthfully, but it's the same thing they were doing 2000 years ago. Then sticking it in the barrels and letting Mother nature take the rest of the process over. I find it so romantic and I, I guess the second thing that's just astounded me about this business is the hospitality business.
Meeting people like Sean. I didn't know that this existed. It's smaller than I thought it was. And, um, Sean and I took a great motorcycle trip all through Europe together with somebody else from the distillery and see these guys from fort to tequila. And, um, I was gobsmacked even on the continent, you know, you'd mention a bar and they'd go, oh yeah, I know that bar blah blah.
Owns it. No, someone would say He sold it two years ago and yada yada. Bought it. Seriously. I didn't know where. Blah, blah, blah, go. Oh, I know that part. These guys know everything about almost every bar on the planet, and Sean knows everything about every bar on the planet. I need some of that head space back.
It's astounding. Alright, Sean, something that's really surprised you about the business of distilling Woody Creek in particular. Yeah. I mean, I'm gonna go to what surprised me about Woody Creek as a company. You know, when I, I learned about them, you know, I, I looked at the website. I had stuff from the website and, and that, you know, information about the spirits and, and the like.
But then I went and met the people. And the fact that, you know, they were so passionate about what they're doing, you know, and they were so dogmatic about the quality and the process and not cutting corners. That, that was, I mean, to me, was incredibly inspiring. And the fact that they took care of everyone around them, you know, it was a small group.
You know, it's not, it's not a major corporation. You're not walking into a. You know, and into a, into a corporate office in Chicago with three floors and a marketing team, and, and that, I mean, everybody's multitasking for the most part in this small little family of this national, this brand that's recognized nationally.
You know, it's still a very small group that's very tight knit. They had their own little community up there and, and the ability to share that community with other people. I mean, what distillery has, you know, someone like Bill just playing ukulele songs on a Wednesday night outta nowhere. You know, the people and their dog.
It's just hanging out drinking whiskey. That's amazing. Right. It's a, it's a great little community they've created up there in Basalt, and the fact that we get to share that with the rest of the country is, is really, really cool. Well put. Well, the fact that we get to share this story with our audience is pretty damn cool too.
Uh, thank you both so much for an incredible conversation. I really appreciate your time. I know how busy both of you are. So, uh, I know this is going to be, uh, a great hit with our listeners and, uh, I'm really excited for the future of Woody Creek. I can't wait to get out there. I gotta get out there sometime soon.
Please. We would love to have you out. Thank you. And I, I hope one of those days I'll get to see, uh, Sean and have a drink with him at the bar, and we'll both be watching Bill on the stage with a ukulele. Right on. I like it. All right, bill. Thank you so much, Sean. Thank you so much. Until next time. Great.
Thank you. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you.
