[00:00:05] Jon Landis: Every so often, an entrepreneur will tell me that they're not ready to attend BevNET Live, but nothing could be further from the truth. You don't even need a completed product to get value from attending. That's right. In fact, product development is a major aspect of this event. Every brand, no matter how established, is always working on something new.
[00:00:23] Mike Schneider: And there are all different types of innovative suppliers and service providers attending BevNET Live specifically to meet you and help you bring your next big idea to market.
[00:00:31] Jon Landis: Brand tickets to BevNET Live also include admission to Beverage School, a very full afternoon of foundational knowledge and structured networking with early stage experts.
[00:00:40] Mike Schneider: I mean, it sounds like BevNET Live is actually the perfect place for an early stage entrepreneur.
[00:00:45] Jon Landis: Exactly. You can definitely be too early to exhibit at a trade show, but it's never too early to attend our conferences. Discounted tickets are available through mid-April. Head to BevNetLive.com to learn more. And now, Taste Radio.
[00:01:07] Ray Latif: Hey everyone, I'm Ray Latif and you're listening to Episode 24 of Taste Radio Insider. I'm in Anaheim, California for Natural Products Expo West 2019. With me are my BevNET colleagues, John Craven, Mike Schneider and Jon Landis. In this episode, we feature an interview with Benjamin Witte, the founder and CEO of Recess, a CBD infused sparkling water brand that's taken the beverage world by storm. Just a reminder to our listeners, if you like what you hear on Taste Radio Insider, please share the podcast with friends and colleagues. And of course, we'd love it if you could rate us on iTunes. It's the end of day one. and we're sitting in the BevNET Airbnb house. Three quarters of the podcast host team has drinks in their hands. Can you guess which one does not Mike Schneider? You want to say anything about this?
[00:01:49] Mike Schneider: I don't have a dry mic. right now. I don't know. It's like you are managing the board right now for me. I mean, I'm just, I'm so happy right now. It's amazing. I'm so happy right now too. You know why? Why? That was a nice stunning comeback. That was not a handball, but it was an amazing penalty rashford.
[00:02:09] John Craven: I get into the champions league. Give him props. Last eight. Landis and I need some lame bandwagon sport top on it. Well, we're going, I'm going to the ducks blues game tonight. Oh yes. I love the blues. We're gonna talk about the fights tomorrow on The New podcast, okay, that's fair enough I understand this is gonna jump onto the ice Well, what I'm glad is that we're not all completely beaten down I was a little worried this morning when I flew in that I was going to be just annihilated tonight I'm doing okay.
[00:02:49] Ray Latif: I think it was the Manchester United win that really
[00:02:52] Jon Landis: Well, there's definitely, there's definitely a buzz happening here at this expo. I mean, sure. Is it called CBD? It very well could be, but I really think it's just called money. I think that a lot of brands are getting infusions of capital. A lot of brands are stepping on the gas. 2019 is going to be a huge year for a lot of emerging brands. There's a lot of things in the works here.
[00:03:12] Mike Schneider: The crowds are huge, man. The crowds are huge right now. John Craven and I went to the, uh, the fresh ideas tent. We had to peace out.
[00:03:17] John Craven: We had to leave. We had to go. I mean, it was interesting. I mean, people, like, a lot of times ask me, like, you know, what was this show like, you know, when you first started coming? And this was not a show that I've been going to for 20 years. I mean, I think I've been going to it for, you know, a little over 10 years, maybe. And Jon Landis' point, I think as the sort of past decade has progressed, The number of people that when you talk to them at their booth are like, do you know any investors? Like literally no one says that anymore. Right. And it's pretty clear that there's plenty of capital out there and that, you know, and we've talked about this before. I wouldn't say it's easy to get funding, but you know, I think the types of ideas that are funded and the runway that these brands get, you know, it's definitely more advantageous to these companies than ever before. It's definitely not San Francisco tech yet though, where they have like the extraordinary long runways.
[00:04:08] Mike Schneider: No one can die. For sure.
[00:04:10] John Craven: And I mean, you hear some rumblings of like, well, you know, it can't go on forever. And you know, I think what is good for this industry is that, and the last recession, you know, sort of helped this is that it does still seem like an industry that's safe. People have to eat and drink. And one that, you know, in the last recession, people didn't really like downgrade, you know, their healthy lifestyle. So, you know, I think some of these companies are definitely bullish, probably would have a shorter runway to do so. But, you know, it's, for sure. You know, the golden age of this stuff continues.
[00:04:45] Jon Landis: I think that investors in this space are willing to take on larger risks than there were in years past. I've spoken with a number of investors today. I saw one, I won't call her out, but she was, you know, checking out a CBD booth. And you know, I said to her like, you know, Is this something that you guys want to invest in? I mean, CBD food and beverage products that are on the shelf nowadays, such as our interview coming up, it's kind of on shaky ground right now. It's pretty dangerous right now. Yeah. Those products get pulled out of those stores tomorrow and like- But they're still raising- They are being pulled out.
[00:05:20] Mike Schneider: They're being, uh, co-packers are being raided and products are being embargoed.
[00:05:23] Jon Landis: And New York City is seeing issues with CBD and food and beverages. Yeah. But, but they're raising money at the same time.
[00:05:28] Ray Latif: They're raising money like a recess is raising money. $3 million pre-launch.
[00:05:32] Jon Landis: And five years ago, you would have never seen someone in like institutional capital coming into a brand that could be pulled off the shelf tomorrow.
[00:05:39] Mike Schneider: But they're looking at the upside of the, of this industry and saying, okay, these products are close ready. People like them. So a little bit gets embargoed here and there. They'll figure out, I don't know if they can write that off or what, what they're trying to figure out here, but they're saying that, you know, let's, let's push forward. Cause they're pretty sure that it, that we're close on a federal regulation.
[00:05:57] Jon Landis: That was the consensus that I was hearing with a lot of people. I, I, I heard some retailers talking to brands at boost saying, listen, we're not selling these products right now, but the day that that switch gets flipped, You got to be ready. And that's what the retailers are telling the brand. So there's a lot of FOMO being built into this. And unfortunately, I am seeing people make very rash decisions to meet, you know, what might come in a few months.
[00:06:25] Ray Latif: Now, it's only day one of Expo West, but there was some big news this week in that the commissioner of the FDA, Scott Gottlieb, stepped down very unexpectedly. And he was a big proponent of seeing CBD and cannabis and hemp. or seem to be, at least, available on a more widespread level. Yeah, legalized at the federal level. I think so, yeah.
[00:06:43] Jon Landis: Yeah, and I actually brought this up to a couple people because people were saying, what do you think the FDA is going to do? And I'm like, why would they ask you, Landis? Well, someone asked me, what do you think the FDA is going to do in The New future? And I'm like, well, they don't have a commissioner. So until that gets sorted, it's like anybody's guess.
[00:06:59] Ray Latif: Indeed. In terms of CBD products, you guys see much CBD-focused brands. I mean, I saw some line extensions here and there, a couple brands that were adding a functional component to a new product, calling it a chill with CBD, something like that, a relaxation SKU. But I didn't see a lot of just CBD brands. You have CBD focus press room. I was in the press room, but there's a lot of pictures.
[00:07:24] John Craven: Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, from what I saw, which covering, I think we got through the entire Hilton and you know, a decent chunk of the North hall. You know, there's, geez, I feel like, you know, last year, it was like every, you know, 10th booth was like a jerky company. And this year, it was like, you know, a company selling, you know, tinctures, some sort of topical product, you know, capsules. You know, there was that, but not as much. But were there CBD-focused or CBD brands that were CBD-based brands? Well, yes. I mean, there's more CBD beverages. And we saw, you know, food products with it. you know, I think it's, it's interesting, like, you know, the problem with it, forgetting about, you know, legalization and, you know, regulation is just that there's still total confusion over, you know, how to explain it. I don't know how many conversations we had about, you know, Hey, a full spectrum's crap. Oh no, isolates crap. I mean, it's, you know, it's just one of those.
[00:08:26] Jon Landis: It seems like nobody knows. It seems like everybody's just making it up as they go along.
[00:08:29] John Craven: And my point with it is, I think these are things that are, right now distractions and hurdles for all these companies as opposed to, you know, if company a really convinces it's, you know, consumer base that isolate is crap. Like I don't really think that's like what they should be focusing on. And I get that they have to do it because there isn't something out there that's guiding this, but it very much feels like the wild west where You know, I guess my concern for anyone doing this right now is they're spending all this time to sort of duke it out and educate. And once that sort of, you know, has leveled out, there'll just be a new wave of brands with fresh money that come in and some of these brands just aren't going to make it.
[00:09:10] Jon Landis: I have said something similar to some people today. I think that the wisest thing is to kind of wait it out for a little bit and see how things play out. And most of the responses I've gotten is we don't want to be left behind.
[00:09:23] Mike Schneider: Yeah, they're not going to, but they're just not going to wait because they feel like they have the product. They feel like they have the direction. Look at it like when people initially came to the United States and they went West, you know, it's probably, okay, it's uncharted territory, but we're going because of the promise of something better. In this case, that's what they're after right now. And, and that's what entrepreneurs do.
[00:09:43] Ray Latif: But we've seen this story before, haven't we? I mean, like with, say, acai or some other functional ingredient, just like that.
[00:09:49] John Craven: The difference here is that I think the majority of these companies have, you know, a founder that you know, has been through something where CBD was like this savior, life-changing thing. And we heard a lot of that. You know, we heard a lot of that. I mean, one of them, you know, at the end of the day, we were talking with Hudson from plant people who was talking about, you know, how he'd had spinal surgery. And then, you know, right after that, we were talking to someone else who was talking about how they went from a, I think he said he took 200 Advil a month or something like that to zero.
[00:10:22] Mike Schneider: And now it's zero and he's helping with his back pain.
[00:10:25] Ray Latif: again, haven't we heard this story before? I mean, like with daily greens with cold press juice, juice, juice, cure.
[00:10:33] John Craven: You're right. We have, but I think this is it. Like, you know, I guess my point with this is that there's a lot more of this. So, and that's the function, it's the core function, but it's also like, I think, you know, for all the daily greens and, you know, someone who had, you know, a story that drove them to this, there were just also people trying to make a buck. And I think, you know, I'm sure there's people just trying to make a buck and with cannabis products. But right now, it very much seems like the going back to what I was saying earlier about, you know, which way is the right way and which product is, you know, or the full spectrum, precisely, it's like what worked for that person is,
[00:11:10] Mike Schneider: That's what they go with and there's a lot of people out there who are, you know, they're saying one thing is better than the other without any science. The thing I caution against is you don't really have a lot of science here, you know, behind it yet and so you could go down a path, you could go down to say, okay, you think isolate CBD is the best or isolate THC is the best and science could prove something else. I think you should just go with the thing that you like, you know, make your claims, but I wouldn't be like dogging the other thing because you might need to switch to it at some point.
[00:11:38] Jon Landis: Well, the sad truth in the whole matter is, is it affects everybody differently? Just like alcohol, just like caffeine, just like nicotine, just like every functional ingredient that we really know. So like everyone's going to have to do their own homework.
[00:11:51] Ray Latif: I mean, I think this is one of the interesting things that I talk about with Benjamin Witte in our interview is he's trying to stay away from talking about the ingredient. His quote was, or one of the quotes in the interview was, we're not selling the ingredient, we're selling the solution. And it's almost like, people are going to buy this because of CBD, but they don't necessarily, the majority of the public out there, the mainstream public out there, doesn't care about a specific efficacy. They just know that there's a function associated with CBD that they want to be involved with.
[00:12:19] Mike Schneider: You know what that is, Morray? That's just good branding and good marketing right there.
[00:12:22] Jon Landis: That's what that is. Yeah. I've spoken with a number of entrepreneurs who are eyeing CBD line extensions because they have a lot of consumer demand, they have retailer demand. they're getting hit up left and right by suppliers. Just do your homework, vet them, find a solution that works for you, find something that's efficacious and that will please your consumers. And you know, if that's what you really want to do, do your homework. That's, can I talk about chicken chips?
[00:12:46] Ray Latif: Yeah. I mean, once again, CBD top of mind for the, for the opening discussion and a Taste Radio insider. But yes, Jon Landis, please talk about chicken chips.
[00:12:56] Jon Landis: I mean, we've, I've talked about them on this podcast before, but they're out in the wild from wild. wild. I got to say wild. W I L D E. And they're, they're based in Colorado and they're making these thin and crispy chicken chips and they got the full packaging ready and it's, it's getting out there, but you're not explaining exactly what these are. These are not chicken flavor chips. They're made out of chicken, chicken meat, and they have their Buffalo flavor, barbecue flavored. They're super, super delicious. And they've really perfected this operations and best part, a lot of people on that team. Huge Taste Radio fans. Cheers. Wild.
[00:13:36] Ray Latif: John Craven, your Instagram was just buzzing this afternoon. What'd you see that really stood out for you?
[00:13:44] John Craven: Yeah. I mean, aside from, you know, the plethora of CBD products out there, I think, you know, we saw the continuing trend of some plant-based, you know, alternatives to things like meat and dairy products.
[00:13:58] Ray Latif: On the beverage fronts, you know, Revive Kombucha, more switchels, more gut health type beverages. Jon Landis, what'd you say?
[00:14:06] Jon Landis: Well, I know that revive is launching The New and we didn't see them yet because their booth isn't open yet, but they're launching The New, like kind of soda killer. Here's what they want it to be. That's how they're promoting. It's a shelf-stable kombucha and cans.
[00:14:19] Mike Schneider: I thought their last one was a soda.
[00:14:21] Jon Landis: I thought the current product was a soda killer, but their current product is Humm Kombucha. And I mean, I'm assuming this one is going to drink more like a soda than like Humm Kombucha, their original premise for the brand was a soda killer. Yes. I mean, I haven't seen it yet, but I did visit with brew doctor and it was really interesting talking to Marty wall over there because he had, you know, opinions on their launch, but they have a different brand and they have different products and you know, they're all kind of working together in this whole kombucha thing here.
[00:14:50] Ray Latif: Well, I'm curious to find out what Humm Kombucha community thinks of a, you know, a shelf stable kombucha from a major producer, because we've seen shelf-stable kombucha come up before. And some of those founders and CEOs have been a little, this is not real.
[00:15:05] John Craven: You also, I think have, you know, if you look Natural Products like the Rowdy Mermaid can product that they're putting out, or, you know, even a company like Olipop, which is kind of like Humm Kombucha alternative. I mean, I think, you know, what you're seeing is just that there's a reality that selling a glass bottle product at a high price point is still mainly due to price and lack of being shelves table, like that still is a gap that needs to be closed.
[00:15:39] Ray Latif: I mean, Humm Kombucha though. I mean, they're selling their canned kombucha products at Walmart for a dollar 99 a pop. So I mean, like, that's, that's a reasonable price.
[00:15:49] Jon Landis: I brought up Marty and brew doctor because they're not doing that kind of stuff. But they love seeing the category expand and, you know, having competitors who are doing more things to bridge people from one category into kombucha. And then they get to learn all about kombucha and they get to try all sorts of different brands. So, you know, even if it's a different brand trying to build that bridge, most brands seem to be kind of into it. I also have to give a shout out to my Hella guys with their, I don't care. I really don't care. It's the mind Jon Landis because the bitter and spritzes. So the bit, what is it? Bitter and soda spritz that they got in the dry one.
[00:16:30] John Craven: This one is like, I could drink that all day long.
[00:16:32] Jon Landis: Both of them are super, super flavorful. And I know these guys have been obsessing over the formulation of it for like quite some time. and they really nailed it. I got to say it's like a bright and colorful.
[00:16:45] Ray Latif: I do want to go back to a plant based version of a product that's traditionally dairy based. That's Kiefer. The Maple Guild actually came out with the, yes, The Maple Guild, which says The New might suggest makes maple-based products, maple syrups. They had a kefir product, the blueberry kefir that I tried at their booth, which was pretty darn tasty. The only problem is it says kefir, and it's just, it's a good tasting product on its own, or kefir, and yeah, I mean, I feel like there just needs to be a little bit more education about what a kefir is. Is it a water kefir? It looks like a tea. Yeah, it's a water kefir. I mean, it's, the color of the liquid is brown, but I feel like that'd be better suited to just calling it- Is it a tea-fer? It's a tea-fer. It actually tastes a little bit like tea.
[00:17:28] Mike Schneider: getting back to plant-based, you know, we saw a bunch of tonics out there. There was a, another quality tonic with an interesting, Matt painted bottle. Sunwink. Did you guys try Sunwink?
[00:17:39] Jon Landis: I did. Yeah. Eliza.
[00:17:40] Mike Schneider: I thought it was to meet Eliza.
[00:17:42] Jon Landis: I thought it was really fantastic. It's, it's like a sparkling tea, but it's herbal tea, but it has no like one, a couple of them are a little bitter. I don't know. I really don't know, even know what to think, but I really, really enjoyed them.
[00:17:55] Mike Schneider: So they're not calling it plant-based tonic. They didn't use the word plant-based. I really think this tonic category needs to get together if they want to create awareness and educate. But it's another quality tonic. I think it's in the same vein as Waku and Goldthread and Kyusu and some others.
[00:18:11] Jon Landis: If you really want to understand that product, I would call it a sparkling herbal tea.
[00:18:15] Ray Latif: Can we talk about the complete opposite of plant-based for a sec? Maybe. So, I saw a brand called Fatworks. Now, they sell premium cooking oils that are animal-based. So, I'm looking at a picture of a mason jar of pork lard. Yes. Kettle-rendered, pastured pork used. Do they have any tallow? I feel like, Landis, you might eat this by the spoonful. I mean, I would cook with that. I would definitely cook with that. I mean, this was- He's eating it now. Outstanding branding. Like, you cannot walk by this food- That's nice looking. And not check it out. Nice use of white space. Because it's white, it's lard. But then you look at it, and you just see it's a big jar of pork lard. It was strange to see in the middle of Expo West. going back to plant-based, right? Can I flip back to plant-based? We keep going back and forth.
[00:19:01] Mike Schneider: Anyone, anyone try Sol Cuisine? I know Craven did cause he was with me, but that, that was one of the closest things to meat I've tried yet. That is not meat is vegan meat. There was a beet burger, some meatballs there that were not meatballs. They called them meatballs though. They were pretty awesome. And then the Mushroom Jerky and the mushroom snack category continues to grow. And we've seen these guys before, but the shrooms guys were there in force. They had a couple of new skews and they were,
[00:19:25] Jon Landis: pans, pans, Mushroom Jerky too. You got to give him a shot. Of course you got to love that.
[00:19:29] Mike Schneider: I love fans, but it's cool because there's a lot of good Mushroom Jerky out there. And some of these skews were one of the skews was even called filet mignon and Craven. You were confused. You're like, is this meat? I mean, if you're going to sell me on mushrooms, don't start talking about meat.
[00:19:45] Jon Landis: I mean, I got, I got an e-blast. It says after walking 500,000 square feet, you're going to want a bourbon. And then it was a picture of bourbon jerky. And I'm like, talk about false advertising now to be right.
[00:19:57] Ray Latif: We've only walked a fraction of the show. So the brands that we've mentioned are just some of the brands that we've seen. We're going to continue to walk the show over The New few days and see a lot more stuff. Follow everything we're seeing on Instagram at BevNET, at Nosh.com, at BevNET Taste Radio. you'll be happy. You did.
[00:20:20] Mike Schneider: Speaking of happy, the happy planet guys, they let me use their latte machine.
[00:20:24] Ray Latif: Oh, I thought you were going to say, speaking of happy glory.
[00:20:36] Mike Schneider: Thanks.
[00:20:36] John Craven: Happy plan. I mean, I definitely know that I dislike Manchester United. I'm sorry.
[00:20:44] Jon Landis: Chelsea fan.
[00:20:45] John Craven: I'm sorry to any real fans out there. Unlike these two clowns.
[00:20:50] Ray Latif: Anyway. All right. It's time to get to our interview with Benjamin Witte, who, as I mentioned at the top of the show, is the founder and CEO of Recess, a sparkling water brand infused with CBD and adaptogens. Just three and a half months since its debut, Recess has generated an incredible amount of buzz. The brand has already been profiled in several mainstream media outlets, including The New York Times, Forbes, and CNBC, with some calling it, quote, the LaCroix of CBD. Packaged in soft-tone pastel cans, Recess was a hit out of the gate. It's been back-ordered for weeks. So what's behind the hype? I met up with Benjamin Witte Recess's office in New York City, where he spoke about the brand's creation and how he set it up for a fast start. He also discussed the company's long-term mission, why Recess is marketing a solution and not an ingredient, and why he believes the best way to succeed as a beverage company is not to think like one. All right, folks, it's Ray from Taste Radio. I'm in Union Square in New York City. I'm at the tech space where Recess headquarters are located. I'm with the founder of Recess, Benjamin Witte. Ben, how are you? I'm great, thanks for having me. Thanks so much for taking time to be with me. Yeah, my pleasure. I know you're a very busy man these days. Trying to keep up. We have a shared history or at least a shared education in that we both went to Boston University. That's right. Miss each other by a few years.
[00:22:13] The New: How'd you like BU? I loved going to college in Boston. I'm from, I grew up in Southern California on the beach. And so it was a good kind of change of scenery to kind of go to school in. And I loved just living in a city designed for college students is kind of what it felt like for me. So I have good memories of Boston. How'd you deal with the cold weather? It doesn't bother me that much. You know, funny enough, even though, again, I grew up in Southern California, I kind of like the seasons and I don't mind the cold all that much.
[00:22:42] Ray Latif: Now you told me you started at BU in film school and then eventually went to the business school at BU. You and I both graduated from that school as well. Why'd you leave film school?
[00:22:52] The New: Yeah, growing up I was really, I was kind of a creative. I was really into making movies and art and design and thought that was something I'd want to explore in college, but determined it was a little too narrowly focused and I wanted to kind of explore business basically. I come from a pretty entrepreneurial family. And so I transferred in the business school and got kind of a general undergraduate business education. I kind of truthfully kind of regret that in retrospect. I wish I would have focused on something a little more creative or specific even. But fortunately, I graduated in 2010, right as kind of Silicon Valley was emerging in the startup scene and decided that I wanted to join an early stage startup right out of school in San Francisco. My first job out of college was joining a three or four-person startup called True Anthem, and we were kind of building an influencer marketing platform in social media. And it was one of these things, it was pretty early days, we launched on MySpace to give you a sense of where the world was back then. But through that experience, I got kind of exposed to how brands were thinking about building their brands online, what was happening in e-commerce and digital advertising and social media marketing, and how just to think about, again, building a brand in an increasingly kind of digital and mobile-first world. Always knew I wanted to start my own company and always knew my strengths and passions lied around kind of consumer experiences and more of kind of design-centric businesses for consumers. And so kind of set out on my own. Before I started Recess, I was exploring a different idea. It was a hotel concept, actually. It was kind of my premise was like, how do hotels stay relevant for the millennial generation when Airbnb exists? And I think our generation increasingly crave communities. And so the concept was kind of like a Soho house like social club or third space as I like to think about it meets kind of a high-end hostel or kind of a new type of hotel targeted kind of the millennial kind of nomadic crowd and brought on a pretty senior partner from the hotel industry to explore the idea with and ultimately concluded it was just a little too capital intensive and ambitious to try and build two properties at the same time on both coasts. Do you see yourself as a millennial? Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. What does that mean these days? That's a good question. I just think it's a fascinating time in history. And, you know, one of our taglines for recess is an antidote to modern times. Like one of my life philosophies is kind of embrace the absurdity of it all. And I think we're just living at kind of ridiculous but exciting times. And I think being a millennial is just living in that reality. And I think it's just everything is changing. And I'm excited by that. scared of it, personally. And so to me, it's, you know, being in your 20s or 30s, you know, in 2019 is like what being a millennial means to me. And I think there's a lot to explore and a lot of kind of products and experiences to create for The New generation.
[00:25:57] Ray Latif: It feels a little bit like embracing the chaos. Yes. There's so much change happening so quickly. Yes. That it takes a certain kind of person, I guess, to be in that moment, to live in that moment and embrace it. I know it's a challenging time politically, socially, every which way in this country. And it's got to be kind of scary to grow up in this day and age. What are some of the ways that, you know, you've been able to kind of express yourself in a way that is meaningful to you and that is productive to society?
[00:26:29] The New: Well, it's really how Recess started. So I moved here and I joined a firm called Life Capital and we were, our vision was kind of a new type of investment firm and business incubators were to incubate ideas. And this is in New York City. Yeah, this is in New York City. And I came up with the idea for Recess within that. And I basically had started experimenting with CBD and adaptogenic herbs myself because I've always been a naturally kind of wired, hyper anxious, ADD like person. And I felt truthfully kind of overwhelmed by like society. I remember like Trump had just got elected and I'm like, whoa, like this is like. you know, the world's changing, like, rapidly. And I come from technology, and so I could see how quickly, you know, new technology was impacting the world. And I think that's, you know, there's a confluence of major events that are kind of leading us, society, to feel overwhelmed. And I think that explains the rise of, you know, meditation, the rise of yoga, the rise of mindfulness, the rise of cannabis, the rise of time well spent Marie Kondo, Xanax, like you name it. These are all indicators that, you know, us as society around the world are increasingly kind of overwhelmed and off-center and we're searching for solutions to feel balanced and centered and in control so we can be our most productive and creative selves. That's how I think about Recess. I really have never looked at Recess as a CBD company or a beverage company for that matter. I really look at Recess as a recreational wellness brand. We create products and experiences both digital and physical to help you feel balanced, centered, and inspired so you can be your most productive and creative self. So taking a step back to, again, when I started working on the idea. When I started using CBD a couple of things were immediately clear to me. The first was that I felt better when I started using these compounds daily and to me I viewed them as a productivity enhancer. It was something I took in the morning and throughout my day to be more productive. It was not something I used at the end of the day as like a sleep aid even though there is kind of a use case for that. It was immediately clear to me that the compound itself was fascinating and it was going to be because of the macro trends of society that CBD had been kind of bubbling up as a solution to help people feel kind of balanced and centered. But the applications at the time or up until now, frankly, oils, tinctures, gummies, vaporizers were not going to be the mainstream vehicles for the compound. And that CBD and adaptogens were increasingly going to become like The New whey protein or caffeine, just functional ingredients that are commodities, frankly, that are just going to be put into everything in the grocery store, for better or worse. And that the big opportunity for CBD, the biggest opportunity by far, in my opinion, is ready-to-drink functional beverages. To me it's obviously The New energy drink size category. And I think for my strategy I believe in kind of marketing the solution and not the ingredient. You know I started looking at a lot of the CBD brands in this space and other categories like oils, tinctures, gummies and they're just marketing CBD. And if you look at... and I look at CBD as frankly like the equivalent of caffeine or taurine to Red Bull. It's merely an ingredient that unlocks the feeling and the emotion. And that as when I was building the brand, I wanted to be very brand first. Another thing I observed was, again, I don't come from CPG. I'd never even considered looking at CPG, frankly. But the more time I started spending in the space, frankly, the more underwhelmed I was by most of the brands in the space in general. And I see no one marketing like modern day lifestyle brands anymore, like the most kind of well-known, I think, popular brands, in my opinion, are, you know, that I'm inspired by are more the Aways of the world, the Glossiers, the Everlanes, the Caspers. And they're really, you know, marketing a lifestyle and have a very clear mission and purpose behind them. And I saw many of even the successful brands of the past few years in beverages. Just names. I don't think there's enough depth to the brand. One easy framework I like to use is, in the past, brands were built on the shelf. Today, brands are built on your phone. That just fundamentally changes everything. I also think distribution, the rise of e-commerce. And as a result, the right distribution strategy is on the channel, not just traditional offline retail through distributors. I looked at that and I'm like, there's just a brand new way to build a brand here. And I think, you know, for Recess, again, I really don't think of us as just a beverage company. Recess is an idea and the beverage is like one vehicle for it. And we're using this first product line, you know, our sparkling water infused with hemp extract and adaptogens. to establish the idea of recess, which is taking a moment throughout your day to reset and rebalance so you can be your most productive and creative self. And moving forward, there's a lot of recesses we're going, more recesses we're going to create, some of which are experiences and others are consumables, both digital and physical. And they're all of equal importance for the idea of recess.
[00:31:41] Ray Latif: What are the most important elements of branding in your opinion? You've had plenty of experience in this area, outside of CPG, but there's something about this can of recess that I'm looking at right now that is just so elegant. What did you perceive as being the most important parts of the outside of this can?
[00:32:00] The New: Our first line on our website and on the top of the can is like, we canned a feeling. And the idea is I think of Recess as a design company and we design feelings and that it's all about the emotion. What does that mean, we design feelings? I mean I think of everything decision I make is like a design choice. Like I designed the formula. I wanted it to taste a certain way, have this like botanical bite to it. I wanted it to be in a certain range of, you know, sugar and calorie range. I wanted the can to feel a certain way in your hand when you drink it. I wanted the messaging, and I think these are all design choices.
[00:32:35] Ray Latif: These are all personal choices that went into this. You didn't do any focus groups or any kind of data?
[00:32:40] The New: Hardly anyone tried the product before I launched it. This is your vision, what I'm looking at right here, and it hasn't changed? No, since I came up with the idea, I looked back, my first mood board on the brand looks like recess IRL, basically our pop-up shop we just opened, which we can talk about. And so I think I had a pretty clear idea. I wanted to create a world, like a recess world that transported people. My observation is for functional beverages, especially ones that are trying to change your mindset so to speak, it's all about the perceived effect is like this very interesting question where even in the early days and I was thinking about The New thing people would tell you about CBD is they're like, I don't feel it enough. I'm like, that's a good thing, not a bad thing. Like I viewed recess as a productivity enhancer, not a, you know, a substitute for marijuana or smoking a joint or having two drinks. Right. And that, you know, the perceived effect of any type of you know, functional product or supplement or food is a combination of the efficacy of the functional ingredients and how they interact with you personally. But arguably more importantly it's your expectation about what they're going to do to you and like your connection to the brand. And, you know, one of my ways I think about marketing in the beverage space today, or the CPG space, or just walking into any grocery store, it kind of reminds me of, like, the Microsoft Apple ads, where Microsoft was marketing memory, gigahertz, the features, storage, things like that. And Apple was always marketed, like, how you feel and how you use it. And I look at that's kind of how CPG marketing is today, where it's all, Organic, non-GMO, 50 grams of protein, you know, 30 grams of anti, you know, all this stuff. And I'm just like, it's recess. Like, it's just like one idea. And I think that stuff is increasingly table stakes and increasingly, especially given that I think brands are built on your phone today and through experiences, that you have to market the feeling and the emotion and have an emotional connection with your community and your audience. And that's what I look at in creating.
[00:34:46] Ray Latif: You have to create something that someone wants to take a picture of.
[00:34:49] The New: I would argue that the can's obviously beautiful, but I think the reason Recess is working is our narrative. It's like a complete thought that just makes sense, right? Where, again, I always come back to our tagline, an antidote to modern times on the side of the can, that's kind of a ridiculous thing to do, but it sets the problem state. Like, what are we solving for our community and our consumers? And The New Recess, very clear value proposition that we're offering, which is, You know, giving you an opportunity to take a recess throughout your day. You know, our tagline of calm, cool, collected, not tired, not wired. You know, I think that's why there's been, you know, a lot of press, for example, is like there's a clear story and narrative and we don't even talk about CBD. And it's not because we're afraid to, it's because I think it's on the marketing side of things, it's not that interesting. Consumers don't want to hear a hundred facts about hemp every day of the week. Like once you know what CBD is, it's, It's a compound no different than caffeine, and you don't see the biggest energy drink companies marketing caffeine, right? They're marketing Red Bull gives you wings, Monster Energy, Rockstar. It's a lifestyle. It's a way of life. And so as I think about building the brand, I'm modeling the company off of, you know, I do think there are great brands. I think Red Bull and Monster were amazing. Brandon Heatherbilt, Gatorade, Coca-Cola. I think the common thing among them all is they really were selling a feeling. And so in the case of Red Bull and Monster, they associated themselves with the action sports community to create the association with having a Red Bull and getting stimulation. And, you know, I view Red Bull in many ways as a content marketing and experiential marketing company for the action sports community that monetizes through selling cans. Right. And I think that's just like, you have to think that way. I really believe that the best way to succeed in beverage today is to not think like a beverage company. Like I think it's such as a complete new era that is, you know, for a variety of reasons. And in the case of GatorAge, sorry to go back to, you know, I think the brands that I've looked up to, you know, they're selling kind of an after, you know, a fitness workout kind of value proposition. So naturally they're going to associate themselves with professional athletics of various kinds in the case of GatorAge. Kombucha and coconut water, you know, it's more of a wellness value proposition. And they're creating, you know, associating themselves deeply with kind of yoga and, you know, meditation and mindfulness, those types of crowds. For recess, I really view us as our main kind of main value proposition is like a productivity idea. I'm trying to inspire people and help them feel balanced so they can be, again, their most productive and creative selves. So our audience that we're focused on, our communities that we're focused on, the marketing side is the creative class. So music, fashion, art, design, internet culture, e-sports. So what's your go-to-market strategy? How did you launch and are you looking to use traditional routes to market? So again, when I started spending time looking at the space, it was very clear to me that we were at this very key inflection point in the industry where obviously the right distribution strategy, or obviously at least to me, is omnichannel. And I define omnichannel as both e-commerce and traditional kind of offline distribution channels, and e-commerce being you're both a direct-to-consumer, you know, off of your website, as well as third-party e-commerce like Amazon and Jet and Thrive Market and Good Eggs and platforms like that. And that dynamic, the shift to only traditional offline distribution channels to on the channel is a fundamental shift. And it impacts everything about your business in terms of how you architect it from your supply chain, your manufacturing network, your team, how you think about marketing, how you think about product development and releases. I don't think of e-commerce as just like an incremental channel to sell on. I think it just fundamentally changes how you think about your business. And so when I launched, I always knew I wanted to be as omnichannel as possible to the extreme, is always my plan and strategy. But I wanted to launch just direct-to-consumer online. And the reason that was, was one, I wanted consumers' first interaction with Recess to be our website, and then our Instagram, because they convey the emotion in the story. They tell you why we exist. And two, I saw an opportunity to kind of create a lot of buzz and leverage online, which would create the demand offline. So I purposely didn't meet with distributors before I launched. I could have, but I didn't because I wanted, frankly, to create the buzz and leverage. I haven't spent a dollar on advertising. I haven't even done any real influencer marketing. My entire marketing strategy has been one organic Instagram post a day and now organic PR. But I think the brand awareness that we've received is significant. But in our first month, we did like 40 to 50 times what we thought we would do. And it just kind of exploded. And then after, I think, a month or so, we had 4,000 back orders on our website.
[00:40:08] Ray Latif: It's not inexpensive either.
[00:40:09] The New: It's not inexpensive either. It's about $40 for a six pack? $30 for a six pack, $40 for an eight pack. Okay. And then we started rolling out offline in New York City, which is where we're based and where I think kind of consumer brands are built. And I think where beverage brands are really built. If you can win in New York, you can win everywhere. And we started doing self-distribution. My first kind of sales executive built Harmless Harvest from zero on the East Coast. And we just started going out there up and down the street. You yourself, you were going to the bodegas? Yeah, like for sure.
[00:40:42] Ray Latif: I had that go from someone who's never gone and been a door-to-door salesman.
[00:40:45] The New: I did a little of that, but I've been building an organization too, but I enjoy the process. I like talking to people about recess and kind of explaining our purpose and why we exist and how we think about the brand and how I think it's pretty different than most. And then I always had the intention of kind of taking my go to mark was, you know, winning the core markets this year and then expand nationally instead of, you know, focusing on the kind of a national rollout strategy. I want to go deep in the key cities, New York, L.A., San Francisco, Miami, Boston, and then kind of expand. I was excited, you know, Big Geyser approached us and we- Big Geyser is one of the biggest independent distributors in the country and the biggest in New York City. Yeah, the biggest independent distributor in the country and just legends in the industry. I mean, they built Vitamin Water, Smart Water, Core, Essentia, Monster Energy, Body Armor, Zico. And so they've come in as strategic partners in the business.
[00:41:42] Ray Latif: There's so much opportunity, it seems, for CBD, for your brand in particular. Are you pumping the brakes at all? Are you hitting the accelerator? Do you say no much at this point? You're only three months in, but it sounds like there's just so much opportunity out there.
[00:41:58] The New: You can't say yes to everything, right? For sure. I mean, my view was, it was very clear to me within the first week that people love recess. I think people have a very deep connection to the brand and how it makes them feel and how it tastes. People love it. And so my strategy was to kind of slow down in order to speed up. I had to kind of build out a team, an organizational foundation, and a supply chain, most importantly, to support kind of hyperscale the rest of the year. And so that's what I've been doing. And I have all those pieces in place now. I've brought an amazing team to kind of support the business. How many folks work for the company now? about 13 full time in New York and then another probably 20 contractors, you know, people that are hourly or contractors that are spending most of their time on recess. So, you know, I'm going to go for a business plan, like I'm going to go for it, basically. And so I've hired 10 people in the past month, like it feels like. And you know, one of my favorite, my philosophies on the organization is that on sales and operations, I only want people that have worked in CPG and Beverage before. And on marketing or digital or innovation or finance even, I want no one that's ever worked in Beverage. And I like to think, you know, on the brand side, just think very outside the box. I think there's just a lot of innovation, like our recess IRL space, which we can kind of speak to. Like one of my favorite, Stats about recesses there's in the organization there I think are there six people that were at one point CEOs of their own business already and I'm hiring for entrepreneurial spirit just because you haven't done this specific thing before you know this stuff isn't rocket science and I think I like I'm looking to move fast and so I'm hiring people that you know have the capacity to do that.
[00:43:42] Ray Latif: I do want to talk about Recess IRL and how quickly you got it off the ground. You talked about the buzz and the hype for Recess at launch, and it seemed like the day you launched, I saw probably 10 or 12 articles about the brand. And then throughout the week, another 10 or 12. I mean, everyone seemed to cover it. Forbes, New York Times, blogs, BevNET certainly covered the launch. How did you get so much buzz for a minute? How did you land this buzz? How did you get so many people talking about the brand before the first week was over?
[00:44:23] The New: I just knew we had a strong narrative. You don't just get PR. I think we have a story and like a point of view about the world. And I think that translates well to the press. You know, obviously, we have a strong visual identity and look and feel. But I would argue that the most underappreciated part of recess and arguably the most important is our brand positioning and our messaging and our copy, for example.
[00:44:47] Ray Latif: One of the things I always saw in these headlines was it was the La Croix of CBD. Did you guys come up with that? No, no.
[00:44:54] The New: Funny enough, I'll tell you a story. La Croix sent me a cease and desist letter in the first week. And I'm like, that's the press labeling us as that. We've never said that anywhere. And so that was entirely an association made up by journalists. Consumers like to be able to compare, like for a new product, it's always the Uber of X or the Airbnb of Y. I think it's an easy thing to do and I think it's beneficial, but no. I don't mind being compared to LaCroix because they're quite a successful brand, but it wasn't intentional.
[00:45:27] Ray Latif: Talk a little bit about that narrative that you put out there. What did people grab a hold of and what are some tips for some other entrepreneurs that are launching that might benefit them when getting off the ground?
[00:45:39] The New: Well, again, I think the first thing is not even trying to think of, I really think of us as a brand, like a wellness brand. It's an idea and there are many vehicles for it. And our Instagram, for example, which is our main channel to date of communication with is, you know, we're telling a narrative in real time. And if you get our Instagram, it's at take a recess. If you notice it's take a recess, not drink recess. And that's deliberate, that's our URL as well. And the idea is that we're bigger than the beverage. Recess is an idea. And if you look at our Instagram, I look at them as like each one is like a piece of art. And barely any of them talk about the taste, the flavor, the ingredients or even show the can. It's really about the idea of recess, which is like an emotion. Again, going back to the origin. Again, our tagline, an antidote to modern times, the idea is the world's gone a little bit mad, whether it's politics, technology, AI, you name it, overstimulation. The world's clearly unsettled right now. And I think we have a message that's acknowledging that and we have kind of a vulnerability to it. And we're making these issues like stress and anxiety accessible. We're talking about a way that's accessible and a bit tongue-in-cheek. You know, one of my life philosophies is like embrace the absurdity of it all. The brand is meant to be a little tongue in cheek, really. And so what I'd say, you know, my advice to other entrepreneurs is really think about your narrative and have a very clearly defined mission and purpose. And I think our mission and purpose is bigger than the beverage. And I say that not to trivialize the beverage, but I think that idea comes across. Now, this is the pop-up shop that's just right down the street. Yeah, it's in NoHo in New York on the corner of Broadway and Great Jones. And, you know, the idea for this space was we want to engage with our community and I wanted to create a space that felt like you were walking into Recess World. And it kind of feels like our Instagram, if you follow us on Instagram, which is, again, it's hard to understand Recess if you don't follow us on Instagram.
[00:47:47] Ray Latif: I think you said you wanted to feel like you're walking into Instagram or walking into a billboard. Exactly. It's a 3D billboard.
[00:47:53] The New: Well, at the very least that was the original idea. Then it was obviously stood as an opportunity for sampling and direct to consumer sales. So there's many offices in the area where people come in every single day to take a recess. There's the back half of it is this kind of low ceiling space with this dim blue light that kind of feels like you're in a James Turrell art exhibit. which is blue lights are very calming for you. And so I wanted to create kind of a space in a world where you could come off the busy streets of New York in the middle of your day to kind of reset and rebalance with one of our sparkling waters infused with CBD and adaptogens as well as the back area where we invented this type of chair. It's kind of a reference to like an adult playground. You can sit in them in a number of ways and it's actually designed as like the negative space of a can. And so again I'm trying to think differently. And then more importantly, the space serves as kind of event space and a community gathering place for the creative community in New York. So we're having four to five events a week there with various partners. Last night we held an event with The New acupuncture group, direct consumer acupuncture kind of company, and it was called Acupuncture for Creativity, and we had about 60 people. Direct to consumer acupuncture. It's like a, you know, it's a, you know, heyday for acupuncture or whatever, you know, like one of those models. But long story short is like we're acting as this kind of curator and like we're taking a very collaboration-driven marketing strategy. So I had to hire someone just to manage brand partnerships. There's just so much brand partnerships. But I think that's how brands are built today. Again, I think that's something that the beverage industry doesn't do very well. And if you think about Glossier, Outdoor Voices, like these brands, like that's how you build a brand today. And that's the approach we're taking. And so this space is meant to serve as a space where we can bring people together and program events, which is about the big idea of recess. Recess is really meant to inspire people. And so that's why I don't like the word relax, for example. It's not very aspirational. I mean, do you see it as an opportunity to learn from your customers? Oh, for sure. Yeah, I've learned so much already. I was, you know, right before this, I was with a meeting, you know, with my team focused there, and I kind of broke her, and we're thinking, like, what is, like, we're going to have spaces everywhere we go. How long is this pop-up space available? We're going to extend it through the rest of the summer. Very cool. But when we go to LA, we'll do a space. When we go to Boston, we'll do a space. There's going to be a core part of our distribution strategy is going to be owned retail experiences from whether it's on the stands to vending machines to places like this of various sizes. And this is a learning you've gotten from this pop-up shop? It's working better than I thought it would work, for sure. Yeah. What's some of the feedback that you've gotten that you didn't expect? I mean, I think people are using it more than I expected. We're doing more sales than I expected, to be honest with you. You have to understand, one day I woke up and I was like, we should have a space. And I called my friend Fritz, who's 24 years old, who knows how to make things and said, you want to go create a space? And I was just like, I'm going to find a space and I'm going to figure it out. It's always been a problem, perhaps, with the master plan. you know, that's kind of how everything's been with Recess, where it's like just calling my friends and like to make stuff. And so I look at Recess as kind of like a creative collective in a sense where I'm just bringing, I want to enable the best creators to create amazing experiences with Recess, similar to how Red Bull, you know, facilitates and enables action sports in many ways, but I'm focused on kind of creators.
[00:51:34] Ray Latif: three months in, it feels like sort of flying by the seat of your pants. Have you had a chance to reflect on this and, you know, think about not just what's in front of you, but, you know, how quickly this has all happened and have you slept in three months?
[00:51:51] The New: No, it's definitely been surreal. And yeah, I have had the opportunity to kind of reflect and take a recess to Again, reflect on what's transpired. It's really the culmination of a lot of different experiences. One of my favorite lines is, the dots connect backwards. If you would have told me two years ago that I'm starting a beverage company, I would have told you you're crazy. But thinking back, it's actually the perfect business for my strengths. It's been an honor, you know, to get to this position. And again, we're just getting started and I don't view us as successful. Like we're just at the starting line almost, but I think we got a good shot. And so I'm invigorated by the opportunity in front of us. And I think in the industry as a whole, like as I was sharing, I think it's just like a fascinating time to be in CPG because I think there's just a number of fundamental shifts kind of occurring here that create a lot of opportunity for many different types of brands. I'm taking one kind of approach, but I think there are many different approaches and strategies to take to ultimately succeed. It seems like it's really exciting. Some parts of it might feel like they're a little terrifying. What and if are you scared about? Well, my biggest challenge is I just can't make enough products right now. And so it's really been scaling my supply chain, but again, we're only three months old. You know, I was confident, but the reception has been much stronger than I even anticipated. And so my, you know, I have a number of main focuses right now, but arguably the most important is scaling my supply chain to support the demand.
[00:53:26] Ray Latif: Now you're just gonna have to embrace the wonderful world of raising money, right? True. Yes, absolutely. All right, that'll leave for next time. Ben, fantastic stuff. Thanks so much. Good luck with recess. I see a tremendous runway for this brand and congrats on everything that you've done to this point. Thank you very much. It was great to speak with you. All right. That brings us to the end of episode 24 of Taste Radio Insider. Thank you so much for listening, and thanks to our guest, Benjamin Witte. Please subscribe to Taste Radio Insider on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, SoundCloud, and Google Play. As always, for questions, comments, ideas for future podcasts, please send us an email to askatasteradio.com. On behalf of the entire Taste Radio team, and that includes Adam Stern, thank you for listening, and we'll talk to you next time.
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