[00:00:04] Ray Latif: Hello and thanks for tuning in to episode 75 of Taste Radio Insider. I'm Ray Latif, the editor and producer of Taste Radio, and I'm with my BevNET and Nosh colleagues, John Craven, Mike Schneider and Martín Caballero. We're recording From The Taste Radio studio at BevNET headquarters in Watertown, Mass. And in this episode, we're joined by Bill Siff, the founder and CEO of adaptogenic beverage brand Goldthread. Just a reminder, if you like what you hear on Taste Radio, please share the podcast with friends and colleagues. And of course, we'd love it if you could review us on the Apple Podcasts app or your listening platform of choice. Obviously, we hope to be in Anaheim at Expo West 2020 at this point of the week. We are not. We're back here in the Boston area, as I mentioned, in Watertown, Mass. That is because Expo West was postponed. Bummer, bummer, bummer, bummer. John Craven, how are you managing your time this week?
[00:00:54] Bill Siff: Yeah, no, it's really weird to go from a week that you've had blocked off for like forever to, I don't know, it's I guess been maybe kind of a productive week because there's nothing on my calendar at all. There's nothing on your calendar, but we had a lot of stuff planned. I mean, I had a lot of interviews planned. Yeah, well, that's exactly it. I mean, you go from cancelling everything and everybody's cancelling everything basically for this week, or has. So yeah, I mean, It is what it is. It's a sucky situation for for everyone. I mean, you know, lots of exhibitors scrambling to get their stuff back that's out there or money back, you know, and I think everyone just kind of hopes that. we rebound From The and move on. exhibitors and just people in the industry has been really, you know, there's been a lot of support within the industry. And I think people are reacting in sort of the best possible way, trying to adapt to the situation. And so are we over here on sort of the news gathering side of things. So, yeah, it's a tough situation. I wish it was there right now. But from what we've heard, it's sort of making the best of a tough situation. Lemonade out of lemons, as they would say. Appropriate. Yes. But Expo West has become such a big event. It's almost like, almost like a season, you know, and now the rhythm of the industry is, is thrown off. You've got retailers who are going, who are expecting to go to this event and meet all these brands and new brands in particular have been giving us, you know, calls and sending us emails and saying, you know, what, what should we do now? And we're encouraging brands to continue to send us their news. We're still covering all of the would have been releases and you know, would have been debuts and package refreshes and line extensions and all of that.
[00:02:52] Ray Latif: So continue to go to BevNET and Nosh.com to send us your news. And it's also been nice to pop onto LinkedIn and see how the community is kind of coming together. Industry veterans and entrepreneurs advising and working with younger folks, younger brands and their leaders. Through this kind of difficult time, we've also seen some service companies and suppliers offering virtual meetings. And I mean, that kind of stuff is just totally indicative of the great environment, the sort of community that we've come to recognize and come to expect out of food and beverage. And I love it. Marty, you've been taking points along with some of the other editors and reporters at BevNET and Nosh. regarding coverage of the event that didn't happen or hasn't happened yet. You know, out of Expo West, you probably have, what, 15, 20 stories From The next four weeks or so. How are you kind of tackling this? How should entrepreneurs and brand owners, you know, approach you and approach the editorial team to get that news out?
[00:03:52] Bill Siff: Well, We Have published a little bit and we're going to continue to be rolling out today and From The rest of this week, some of the stuff that we had sort of lined up. I've been speaking with brands and exhibitors and people sharing their Expo West news ahead of the show. So We Have a few things that will be rolling out this week. We also had a slideshow yesterday featuring a lot of products that you probably would have seen at the show floor. So basically, you know, it's kind of as we really try to do here is really just keep the lines of communication open. Please email us, phone calls, texts, get in touch and share your news. We're dealing with a large volume right now, so we're sort of working our way through it. But we are definitely planning to cover all the different categories and products and brands that would have been at this year's show and really just try to continue to be a place where you guys can stay up to date on all the news and stuff that's going on in the industry. So that will definitely continue. And yeah, just please reach out and we'll do the same. Yeah, I mean, in addition to all of the news coverage, and you know, galleries and stuff that we're trying to put together, I mean, I think we're just trying to recognize the fact that sometime next week, I think everyone's kind of going to realize like, I'm not flooded with all those new contacts and all those post expo follow ups. And, you know, look, we're not going to be flush with all those. Hey, we got to got to get this sample of that thing that we tried. You know, I think we're all kind of in the same boat of just trying to figure this out. I can only speak on behalf of our team here, but, you know, we're doing our best to try and create stuff that hopefully, you know, I don't think it'll make up for, like, all the exposure and the in-person side of shows like Expo West. But, you know, we're doing our best to try and come up with things that help the community and, you know, help us all get kind of back to normal as quickly as possible. So definitely reach out to us if we can help in any way.
[00:05:40] Ray Latif: Marty, you mentioned texting us, which is something that's kind of new for us. We Have a new phone system that allows folks to send text messages to our cell phones. Now, it's not our cell phone number, it's our office number that redirects to our cell phones. Has that been a reliable sort of communication method for you?
[00:05:56] Bill Siff: It has. I really enjoy using it. I mean, it's pretty simple. It's just sort of, you know, it's text messaging. Everyone's pretty familiar with it. It's just to me, it's another way that people can reach me. It's whatever you kind of feel comfortable with. For me, phone call, email, text, it's sort of like all communication and just sort of time and place kind of thing. But yeah, I use that all time and feel free to text me. Yeah. Funny side note, when we got that and turned it on, my first text messages were from Lance Collins on like a Sunday morning. So yeah, I'm glad we got that feature.
[00:06:30] Ray Latif: Lance Collins, the founder of Fuse, NOS, Body Armor, Core Water, Adrenaline Shoc. Good dude, great entrepreneur. Yes, yes, indeed. Well, some good news. We've got some plant based frozen dessert, a.k.a. ice cream from Ripple Foods, a maker of pea protein based foods and beverages. John Craven, you brought these into the studio. Have you been munching on these? Marty, he indulged.
[00:06:56] Bill Siff: He indulged. Yeah. Carol saved these for us. And yeah, I've been looking forward to trying these for a little while, but tried the what is that one cinnamon churro? Pass that cinnamon churro over here. Yeah, this is like you know, the high test, I think it says there's a, well, if you eat that whole container, there's 800 calories in it, certainly no Halo Top, they're really tasty stuff. I think that might almost pass for like, real ice cream. Marty path. I know you haven't been on the show a lot, but you should pass a spoon when you pass the Alright, I'm going. I gotta agree, though. I was pretty impressed. tasty stuff. The cinnamon churro flavor in particular.
[00:07:32] Ray Latif: And it's all the pea-based protein that they've been using in the past? Is that what they're... What's the... Well, Ray, ingredient number one is guar... No, kidding.
[00:07:39] Bill Siff: Let's see here.
[00:07:41] Ray Latif: Riptine pea blend, water and protein. It's their proprietary blend of protein. I see.
[00:07:45] Bill Siff: Is there a lot of protein per serving in that thing? Two grams. Two grams? That's about on par with, you know, what you'd get from ice cream made with milk. You're not eating this From The protein. I mean, if you are, there's... Well, that's not going to work out too well.
[00:07:58] Ray Latif: Actually, in episode 203 of Taste Radio, which came out last week, it featured an interview with Ben Van Leeuwen, who's the co-founder and CEO of Van Leeuwen Ice Cream. Yeah, please send ice cream. They are killing it with their vegan ice cream, actually. And it was interesting to hear him talk about how They set out to make a great tasting ice cream that happened to be vegan versus a vegan ice cream, which I think, you know, has got to be the approach for a lot of these things. You know, a lot of these plant-based formulations, number one, first and foremost, you know, ice cream is about Taste Radio, you know, I've, not to knock on Halo Top, but like, you know, who eats an entire pint of ice cream all at once? So you just, you know, a few scoops, as long as they taste amazing, I'm good with that.
[00:08:39] Bill Siff: Yeah, I see you munching on a cone around the office here now and then. Cone? Cone, yeah. I don't, I don't eat ice cream cone. I've never been an ice cream cone guy. Spoon and the cup. I gotta say cone is probably the most sustainable way because you're not leaving any plastic waste behind.
[00:08:54] Ray Latif: So, uh, that's true. Extra woke points for that. Now, given the circumstances of Expo West, a lot of companies were encouraged to use prepackaged samples, i.e. a fully wrapped peanut butter cup. Now, if you happen to have extra ones because the event has been postponed, you can always send them to us. We're always looking for snacks in the office, like some of these unreal peanut butter cups that We Have on the table today, which are great, as well as some of the From The Ground Up butter squash treats, tortilla chips, those are. And obviously, if you were planning on exhibiting new products, brand revamps, anything that is in the category of new at Expo West, please send them to us. We'd love to see them, try them in person. We've seen a bunch of those photos of them, but can't really eat or drink a photo, right? You could try, Ray.
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[00:10:15] Western Massachusetts: Tune in at the end of this episode for an exclusive interview with Matt Lin of Belay Solutions. He sits down with Melissa Traverse to break down the biggest inventory and accounting mistakes CPG founders often make. You'll learn how to bring clarity to your numbers so you can scale with confidence.
[00:10:33] Ray Latif: All right, it's time to get to our featured interview for this episode. That's with Bill Siff, the founder and CEO of Goldthread, a brand of plant-based tonics formulated with herbs, spices, and adaptogens. A clinical herbalist, ethnobotanist, and licensed acupuncturist, Bill launched the brand in 2016 as an extension of his apothecary and herb farm in Western Massachusetts. Since then, Goldthread has emerged as one of the leading brands in the developing category of adaptogenic beverages. The brand is distributed at natural and conventional retailers nationwide and recently announced placement at 970 Target stores across the U.S. In the following interview, I spoke with Bill about his background as a practitioner of natural remedies and how his experience led to the creation of Goldthread. He also discussed the upside and challenges of building a new category, effective methods for driving consumer education and brand awareness, defining metrics for success, and how ingredient trends fit into the company's innovation strategy. Hey folks, it's Ray with Taste Radio. I'm on a call with Bill Siff, the founder and CEO of Goldthread. Bill, how are you? I'm doing well. Thanks for having me. You know, I didn't even ask you, do you go by Bill or William Siff assume it's Bill. Bill's good. William's good. Either one. Do you have a preference?
[00:11:49] Thoughts On: Well, William's probably better when it comes to it. You know why? Because it has two syllables. William Siff. So it sounds better when you're doing recordings or phone calls and so on.
[00:11:59] Ray Latif: William, tell us a little bit about Goldthread. What is the company? When did you start it? Why did you start it?
[00:12:06] Thoughts On: Well, Goldthread is the name of the beverage company, the plant-based tonic company that we run. It's been around for a while, the name Goldthread. It was prior to becoming a beverage company. I used the name Goldthread for my clinical practice and retail apothecaries Western Massachusetts, as well as a pretty extensive herb farm that was in Western Massachusetts. So it was kind of like a combination of businesses all wrapped up into one. They were all related and they were called the Goldthread Herbal Pharmacy, the Goldthread Herb Farm and Goldthread Clinical Practice. About three and a half years ago now, we switched over the model From The things to a beverage company. It's a brand that had some, you know, name recognition in the Northeast where I had been practicing and working in different ways for 12, 13 years. And so we kind of kept the name as we moved into this other business.
[00:13:05] Ray Latif: You said a few years ago, you shifted your business to focus on beverages. Why did you make that shift?
[00:13:12] Thoughts On: The reason to switch over to a beverage company, first of all, would be that we were looking for a model that could scale. We were getting a lot of success in the different aspects of the business, working with plants, plant-based medicine that we were doing Western Massachusetts, the retail apothecary, the herb From The clinical practice, an educational program that drew people from all over the country. And it was really a bumping, successful kind of business model that we had, but we decided, the thought process was, well, how do we scale this? And so we did a lot of thinking about it and head scratching and did some design processes and brought people in to help us think about it in a deeper, more granular way. And the beverage came out of that process. And it had been something that I had noticed for 20 years of being in this space that people really need to try. medicinal plants to get an understanding of what the value proposition is. You know, it's much easier to have people experience it directly than to sort of just talk about it, you know, in an abstract kind of way, even if it's beneficial. It's really once people kind of can adopt it and utilize it on a daily basis that you see actual tangible health benefits, you know, ensue. And I've been doing that in the retail apothecaries for many years. I had all kinds of formulations that I would make in mostly tea blends, you know, various kinds of blends of raw herbs blended together for different problems, digestive issues, immunity boosting, endurance and energy, sleep and stress. You know, there are different facets that affect everybody, no matter who you are or what level of health you have. Most people come in to a doctor or a clinician of any kind with the kind of same types of complaints or issues that they want to focus on or enhance in terms of their overall health. And so I made these blends and they got really popular. And after a while, I would just dole them out by the pound and I would have the people that were working for me, someone would walk in with any kind of digestive problem and I'd say, just give them the digestive tea, number one, Someone walks in with an immune issue because it's getting cold out people starting to get flus and coughs and so on in New England They're thinking about how do I boost my immunity and protect myself from getting sick? and I'd say give them immunity formula number two and so on and so forth and they got really really popular and that was the four prototypes of the beverages so I knew there was a market for this because people are looking for enhancement of their health in a simple straightforward way with plants but there's not sort of a there wasn't really an easy delivery mechanism out there and so I started to see the beverage space in general when you'd walk into a Whole Foods or any kind of store where you know you see the beverage space transforming almost into a hybrid of a beverage cooler slash supplement aisle, because there's a lot of functionality showing up in the beverage space these days and for years now, but certainly when we were starting to look at this. But I hadn't seen any plant-based beverages, the ones that I had envisioned or the ones that I had been using for all these years as a clinician that took great effect and a lot of popularity. I saw a gap there and that's why we decided to go into the beverage space in the first place. You just see it, you know, transforming. And so we're kind of inventing the category as we go, which is appropriate because I've been doing it for 20 years, you know.
[00:16:53] Ray Latif: Let's talk a little bit about this notion of building a new category. A lot of times I will talk to entrepreneurs who are coming out with something that is so differentiated from what's currently available on the market that They sort of self-describe their brand as a new category. It's difficult to create a category, though, if there's only one product on the market. Have you worked with other brands that operate in the same sort of plane or space as you, and have you come up with a common language for what you're offering and how to market it?
[00:17:31] Thoughts On: Yeah, and I think that what you're referring to, it's not that we're the only one. We are, I guess you could say, among a small handful of beverages that are emerging to create this space where the medicinal plants, you could say, are the leader in the beverage. I mean, a lot of brands Certainly kombuchas will accent their probiotic digestive health beverages with medicinal plants, but they're more like flavorings and accents, you could say, you know, but they're not the main event. So that's what's unique about this, is this, we, this is the main event for us. That's why, you know, We Have very concentrated formulations and there are increasingly sections in retailers for tonics, for plant-based tonics specifically, functional plant-based tonics, then that category is growing fast. And that's kind of one of the ways in which we pitch the brand and pitch the brand and also where we should end up on the beverage self is in these plant-based tonic sets. And in fact, we often will suggest to retailers creating a plant-based tonic set. And then we might refer to a few other brands that are kind of what we see as similar enough to be a part of that set. A lot of times we'll try to incorporate or bring in brands that we see as helping to build this category rather than seeing everyone as some competitor that We Have to extinguish because we're not at that point of saturation. This category needs a critical mass of other beverages to establish itself in a retailer's cooler such that they're willing to invest the space into it.
[00:19:20] Ray Latif: So you identified beverages as the best delivery mechanism or At Least the delivery mechanism that was going to reach the most number of people. At the same time, the beverage industry is a very expensive business to get into. There's a lot of hurdles when it comes to getting distribution, getting onto shelf. Do you have any sense of how this industry worked and what it would cost to launch and to scale? None. Almost none. So would you have, would you have done it? Would you have gotten into this business? Had you known?
[00:19:56] Thoughts On: I don't know if I would have actually, I think that's actually a part of like, I mean, I've been an entrepreneur for 20 years. So what I've known about being an entrepreneur is that you don't ask those questions in a sense. You don't ask those questions until you're, until you're in it, everything reveals itself along the way. And if it did, if you asked a new, all the answers to all those questions, would you continue to have that sort of entrepreneurial spirit and plunge ahead? I don't know the answer to that. I mean, we had advisors who told us straight up the facts about the beverage industry and, you know, we took that in, but frankly, we, we felt like the, the product itself was such a, the timing was right in terms of like what is emerging in society and what the trend lines are in the, in the industry. And, the reaction we were getting From The prototypes and From The early days at the farmer's market when we would pass these drinks around was so strongly positive that it was sort of like, well, let's just take one step at a time and keep going. And each step of the way, the next door would open and the next thing would happen that allowed us to keep moving forward. And so, you know, proof of concept seems like it goes on and on and on, actually, for a long time, maybe to the very end, you know.
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[00:22:28] Ray Latif: Did you have a sense of what the end would look like for Goldthread? I mean, you know, a lot of people get into this business looking at brands that have exited for millions or billions of dollars, and those are far and few between when it comes to the number of new beverage companies that launch every year and the ones that are still currently in the market. There's just not a lot of amazing exits. So for Goldthread, I mean, how do you think about success?
[00:22:58] Thoughts On: Well, From The mission standpoint, the mission was to get as many herbs, spices, and adaptogens into people's bodies as possible, as far and wide as we could accomplish that. From The mission standpoint, we are oriented towards increasing people's health and well-being. And that is an extension of the business model that I have been devoting most of my life to as a clinician, as a doctor of traditional medicine. And that includes the suppliers and the farmers and the wildcrafters and all the people that are at source for our raw materials. And it also includes all of our employees. And so there's a lot of aspects of, I guess you could say, or benchmarks of success that I feel like we've already hit and we've already succeeded, you could say, and we are every day. And that makes me really happy and everyone in the company. same way. And From The standpoint of the more tangible things like we are constantly working our way towards profitability and with an eye towards we will be one of those companies that does make a successful exit. So really success for us does look like a very, very good value proposition for someone or an entity that wants to take this company further and farther than we can at a certain point.
[00:24:29] Ray Latif: Profitability is often a key benchmark for success or the success of a brand and it often comes with scale. Scale though for a product like yours sounds like it would require quite a bit of consumer education. And as we all know, it's really expensive to teach consumers about how to consume or why they should consume a particular food or beverage, but it's critical in your case. What's been the most effective strategy for building brand awareness and consumer education? What's been the most cost-effective way to do it?
[00:25:05] Thoughts On: There's two interesting aspects to that. I mean, first of all, the demos. And I'm sure this is the common answer with a lot of beverage companies. It's going to be in-store demos. I mean, getting people to try this product, knowing full well that it is sort of a category that people aren't necessarily familiar with entirely. I mean, it's on its way, but it's something that We Have to do a lot of education around. So we do a ton of in-store demos. And that has been the most simple and effective, you could say, trade or marketing strategy that we've had. And it works great, because once people try them, people have, I guess you could say, a conception of that medicinal plants are going to Taste Radio, or that they're somehow only something I should consume when I'm not feeling well, you know, because that's, of course, that's what, you know, anyone would think it's common sense, given how this kind of has gotten into our into our culture thus far, but really when you consider our beverages taste great, basically. And so when people try them, they feel like, okay, this is something that's familiar enough to my palate and something that is really makes me feel good immediately. So that's been great. And that works well. And then the other thing We Have here in our, our headquarters in Santa Monica, we do something called a Plant Venture. And what that is, is when we go around the world to source a lot of the raw materials for these drinks, which we do extensively, I always come back with a whole bag full of remedies and plants that are rare or strange or that they are using in India or Korea or Japan or Africa. that you would really never hear of. They're sort of not necessarily on the market or they're not really a commodity. And I bring them back, a big whole rucksack full of them every time I go. And I do like a show and tell. And what happens is we invite people, and We Have a pretty good list of people in Los Angeles. And we always have new people coming in through our PR and all that kind of stuff. And we all get together, and We Have a really beautiful space full of plants and twinkly lights. And it's a gorgeous headquarters where We Have set up shop here. And I do an educational program where I pass around a lot of these remedies that we've obtained from all over the world. I make special tonics and elixirs for those events that are not part of our beverage line, but they're made in the same way, but they're sort of curated and special and one-off recipes. And we cater them, We Have really nice food and plant-based meals and so on. And we bring together a really diverse group of people who often have a lot of followings or are somehow connected or interested in this space. And it's about an hour, hour and a half, and I talk about traditional medicine and I talk about the value of using medicinal plants in everyday life. And they get to Taste Radio try all these exotic, strange recipes in this beautiful setting. And if people encounter the brand through that experience, they become evangelists. And then a lot of great things have come From The. We get invited to go do. various conferences and speaking engagements, and we find our way into different on-premise businesses as a distribution point for our drinks in that way. And that gets us a lot of, I guess you could say, inexpensive PR, because there's such a unique experience. So I'm capitalizing, I guess you could say, on my my first trade, my real trade, which is as a plant-based medicine expert, and that has a value in and of itself. And then when they find out, when people find out I'm the front man for this company and the chief formulator, they can really trust the brand. And so that's what we've been doing. And then of course we do the traditional PR and We Have a good marketing team and all the rest of it. But those are kind of some interesting ways in which we work with this.
[00:29:03] Ray Latif: Two things that are critical for success, From The success of any brand, any food or beverage brand that is, Taste Radio it seems like today some sort of functional benefit. But there's another big component to beverages as well, and that's refreshment. How much of the refreshment component do you have to think about when you are promoting the brand? I'm glad you asked that.
[00:29:25] Thoughts On: Actually, you could say that was like the third pillar. These are incredibly refreshing and easy to drink. And I think exactly what you're saying, Nick, from a clinical standpoint, from someone who's been in this space and I've formulated products From The supplement companies and so on, I've been giving these to people for decades medicinal plants with the assumption or the necessity that they consume them on a regular basis in order to get the benefits if they want to cure their particular issue. So I had to think about refreshment. I had to think about not just like I can get it down if I have to because I want to get the benefits, but more like do I actually reach for it? Do I seek it out? Is it something I'm actually going to consume without even thinking about it? Is it going to replace the thing that I've been consuming that might have negative effects on my health, because you really have to think that way. I don't myself subscribe very much to the beverage market being a place where the functionality of something is going to supersede the flavor and the refreshment aspect. I mean, that's not why people go to the beverage cooler. That's more why people go to a supplement aisle. And I don't think that the brands that try to get something into someone, you get a beverage into someone or get someone to change their habit or adopt a beverage based upon solely its effects or perceived benefits is going to work certainly not in the conventional space or across, you know, at scale. And that's very clear to me. It was clear to me when I started and that's why I made these things so that you would find them indistinguishable. People would find them indistinguishable From The most part from all the best things that people like to consume anyway, you know, whether that's teas or even to some extent juices and so on, really flavorful, refreshing things, lemonades, you know, and so on. So that's great. And that is what they're like. That's, I think, probably the secret sauce to their success. You know, if you can pack functionality into something that people want to drink, that is the key and that's where experience comes in. It doesn't just happen. What I see out there a lot of times is just like, I see the functionality and I think that's a good try and maybe someone like me would consume this thing based upon that, but good luck getting everyone else to do it because maybe once, maybe twice, and that's it.
[00:31:58] Ray Latif: Certain functional ingredients have penetrated the mainstream. Yeah, definitely. Turmeric, obviously, is an example. Are you innovating with ingredients that are becoming more familiar? Or would you say that, you know, working with esoteric ingredients has really helped you stand out in the market?
[00:32:16] Thoughts On: Well, I would say that like it's a combination, you know, our, our SKU line, We Have 11 SKUs at the moment, which is a large number for a fairly young company. For sure. And yet our company, I mean, our SKU line in our like proposition is in terms of functionality. is one in which the variety is a value-added proposition, you know, like that we can cover a range of effects with this skew line is valuable in itself. And they're very colorful, and they really make a nice display palette. When you're looking at a beverage cooler, they jump out. I would say that when it comes to the ingredients, We Have Hawaiian ginger, and we've got a turmeric-based drink, and we've got matcha from Japan. And these ones, you know, that are already being sort of well received in the larger conversation around health and certainly beverage are, you could say, well, they're working off of that familiarity and they do very well because of that. And, you know, the more the better kind of until there's a saturation point, you know, is kind of like going to drive that acceptance of those ones. And then there are other ingredients that we know or see as on the cusp of trending like Shizandra Berry and Tulsi and, you know, Ashwagandha and so on and so forth that they're kind of like really getting into the mainstream. They haven't quite gotten to the place where I would say they're like at their peak of exposure and acceptance. But We Have a lot of experience in this space know 20 years of experience in the plant-based medicine world and so having some foresight or some I guess you could say were some assumptions about where it's going based upon lots of reasons you know like for example I was in Korea not too long ago and you can get a schizandra berry drink in the Starbucks in in Seoul and it's you know endemic to the society it's everywhere it's kind of like cranberry juice or to them you know it's everywhere here not so much, but it's coming because there's always an eye towards what's the next best thing, what's the next greatest thing that we can add. You know, America is always innovating and looking From The next trend, the next special ingredient, the next wherever you want to say, I don't want to say magic bullet, but the next thing that's going to like bring my health over the top. You know, you can just see it. It's a really burgeoning thing, the health space in this country. So there's a finite amount of, well, I wouldn't say finite, but there's a, you could say there's like some low hanging fruit that's obvious. And then there's some things that are a few years out. Some of it has to do with the trend lines in general. You know, turmeric became really popular in this culture, largely because inflammation is such an issue. and turmeric is so great for helping to moderate inflammation and inflammatory patterns that why not get more of it into our diet? And so you look at the trend lines overall, there was a time when echinacea got into the cultural conversation and that had to do with people's desire to get over their colds and flus faster so they could get back to work and not be so sidelined with things like that. So you see larger macro trends and try to adjust around that as well.
[00:35:42] Ray Latif: Bill, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me. I really appreciate it. You do have a pretty remarkable brand and thank you for sending some products to our office prior to this interview. It's really delicious stuff and I advise our listeners, I recommend our listeners to check out Goldthread if you have an opportunity.
[00:36:00] Thoughts On: Thank you so much. It was really great talking to you. And thanks for all the cool work you guys do over there at BevNET.
[00:36:06] Ray Latif: I appreciate that. Good luck going forward with everything and hope to catch up again really soon. Okay. Take care. You too. That brings us to the end of episode 75 of Taste Radio Insider. Thank you so much for listening, and thanks to our guest, Bill Siff. Please subscribe to Taste Radio on the Apple Podcasts app, Spotify, Stitcher, or Google Podcasts. As always, for questions, comments, ideas for future podcasts, please send us an email to ask at Taste Radio. On behalf of the entire Taste Radio team, thank you for listening, and we'll talk to you next time.
[00:36:43] SPEAKER_??: you
[00:36:49] An Expo-Less: Hello, I am Melissa Traverse here From The Taste Radio podcast, talking about some of the biggest tension points that CPG brands and founders face when they're scaling a brand, and those are financial accounting and inventory management. I am joined by Matt Lynn, inventory accounting guru from Belay Solutions, and he is going to shed some light on all of this that is going to help everybody out quite a bit. Matt, thank you so much for joining us today.
[00:37:19] Bill Siff: Thank you for having us, Melissa. It's great to be out here at Expo West and it's great to sit down and be able to chat this because it's kind of a passion project of ours, working mainly with CPG brands and hoping to help them scale.
[00:37:31] An Expo-Less: It's been such a pleasure chatting with you and the team and learning all about what you do over there at Belay Solutions. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what your role is and the kinds of solutions that Belay gives to CPG brands and founders?
[00:37:46] Bill Siff: Yeah, absolutely. My role with Belay, I'm actually our inventory accounting manager. I run our inventory department, so we work with CPG brands, taking them from spreadsheets, putting them on inventory management systems, and really helping connect their tech stack between their sales online marketplaces to that inventory management system, even down to their financial systems like QuickBooks. Belay overall is kind of an outsourced accounting firm. And with that, we're helping teams. We Have different levels with bookkeeping, controller level work, even high level into CFO type items. So we really help those brands in any way that they need financially. And then I just have a subset of a department where we're really just laser focused on inventory.
[00:38:29] An Expo-Less: It's certainly a complex topic and there are plenty of places to go wrong. Let's start by going right and start super simple. Can you tell us what some of the biggest red flags are that would help a founder understand or, you know, the person running a brand understand that it really is time to get some help with some of these areas?
[00:38:50] Bill Siff: Yeah, absolutely. I think some of the early red flags is just everything is chaos. So when they're looking in their financial software, maybe they don't really have an accounting background and they're kind of just piecing it together and doing their best. And what they'll see is that reconciliations take forever, if they even happen. They have a lot of transactions that don't get coded or they just put them into placeholders to just get rid of it so it's not an eyesore. they'll notice they have revenue but no cash or they notice that they have a good amount of cash but their blind spot is really seeing the vendor invoices that are sitting there just needing to be paid and so they just lack that clarity that's going to really be around the corner.
[00:39:27] An Expo-Less: You know, you were talking about one of the red flags that comes up that I think makes so much sense. When somebody asks you what your numbers are and you can't come up with the right number, that's a big problem because that's something that you really should be able to share with decision makers who, you know, you're ideally looking to do business with. What should you be able to call up at a moment's notice?
[00:39:51] Bill Siff: really at any time you should be able to know an accurate margin. It's amazing how many founders we end up talking to that they can tell you their revenue numbers, they can tell you their selling price, and then the minute you start talking about cost or their cost of goods sold, they just get a deer in headlights look. So really it's very hard to tell, am I even making money? or if you don't know your entire landed cost. Maybe you know what the freight cost is, the duties separately, but you're not really getting that as part of your unit cost. So it's really hard to tell. Am I even making money or am I losing money From The very beginning?
[00:40:24] An Expo-Less: And do you recommend that founders are able to call up a margin by channel?
[00:40:29] Bill Siff: Absolutely. And depending on the number of products and channels, you kind of want to know what are your best sellers, which ones are making the most and which ones maybe you're not making as much. But especially if you're branching out and you're doing D to C with B to B, absolutely want to know that.
[00:40:46] An Expo-Less: Gotcha. You mentioned that when things feel really chaotic, that's probably a red flag. I would say that it probably almost always feels chaotic if you're running a CVG brand. And I know this may be hard to quantify, but is there a revenue number? Is there a number of doors number that would help a brand understand whether or not it makes sense to bring on a partner like Belay? Understanding that so many brands are bootstrapped or they might be tight for cash. What is that friction point?
[00:41:16] Bill Siff: 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 But as you're growing, as you're getting to those six-figure revenue numbers, and especially as you're approaching seven, you want to make sure you've got good financials. Because as you scale to that point, most likely you're going to be looking to raise capital. And investors, the first thing they're going to look at is your books. And are they clean? And do they show a clear picture of your business?
[00:41:49] An Expo-Less: You know, another area that folks might look to to organize some of the chaos are their systems. So many folks stick with Excel spreadsheets for a good amount of time. How do you know that you need to outsource some of your accounting to an organization like Belay Solutions versus maybe signing on to a Synth7 or NetSuite or something like that?
[00:42:11] Bill Siff: Well, that's actually something we really help with. When it comes to that cost question, that's something that trips people up. And sometimes if you just have a turnkey business, you buy and sell a finished good, you can maintain with spreadsheets. And we've had clients with million dollar revenue that can do that. But we see so many brands nowadays are using contract manufacturers. and they're just sourcing certain parts of their product. So when you start talking costs, they have no idea exactly what their unit cost is. So that's where we come in and we kind of understand, we'll speak with the customers and the clients and get their needs. And then if we think they're ready for a system, then we'll help put them on that system so they can get some of that clarity. And it's not something we force on anybody. There are plenty of times where founders come to us and we'll tell them bluntly, you're not ready for it right now, but we'll let you know when we think you are.
[00:42:58] An Expo-Less: That sounds like excellent advice. What should a founder or somebody running a brand look for in an outsourced accounting partner? Are there certain checklist items that they should make sure that their partner be able to execute or be able to help them understand?
[00:43:14] Bill Siff: Absolutely. I think one of the keys there's, there's a lot of outsourced accounting firms out there. Some focus on service-based SaaS companies, but if you're a CPG founder, you really want to make sure that your accounting firm has CPG experience. I would ask them, you know, what kind of brands have they worked with? And even beyond that industry specific, because there's so many subsets of CPG. And that's something that I think is great about what we do with Belay is that we kind of run the gamut. It's kind of like the insurance commercial. We know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two across a broad spectrum.
[00:43:44] An Expo-Less: Probably getting references is always helpful, right? Absolutely. All right. So this all sounds great. I think We Have a really good understanding of would it make sense to hire an outsourced partner? You know, what some of the things you should be looking for are. What does offloading this kind of work mean From The brand? What can this do for lightening the load of a founder or lightening the load of a brand operator? Like, how does that help them in their everyday business?
[00:44:14] Bill Siff: It just tries to really help quiet the chaos. So what we're looking to do is just take some of the weight off that founder's shoulder, let them focus on building the brand, building the business, getting that exposure. If you don't have sales, you really don't have anything. So we want them to be able to focus on that while we take care of your back end office work. And we can just present that to you on a monthly basis, you can help make decisions, you can take that to investors. And really, you can just focus on growing your business.
[00:44:39] An Expo-Less: I feel like I felt founders and the folks who are running brands collectively sigh a breath of relief just hearing that. How can people learn more about Belay Solutions?
[00:44:50] Bill Siff: So people can text TASTE to 55123 for their free inventory guide to get started.
[00:44:56] An Expo-Less: Matlin, inventory accounting guru at Belay Solutions. Thank you so much for joining me here at Expo West. It's been such a pleasure to chat with you and learn about what you all do over there to help founders and brands with their financial accounting and inventory management. For everybody else out there, thank you for listening to the Taste Radio podcast. I am Melissa Traverse and we'll see you next time.
