Hey folks, it's Ray with Taste Radio. Right now I'm supremely honored to be sitting down with Emily Groden, who is the founder and CEO of Evergreen.
Emily, it's great to see you. So excited to be here. Thank you so much for taking the time. We're on, uh, the final day of Expo West here, and I'm glad that you are bright and lively and just generally like in a really good mood it seems like, which is amazing, you know, because I think last day of Expo West you can.
Typically find people not in that position. Well, I'm just glad that I still have a voice. Wednesday night, I did not have a voice and I thought it was gonna be a really long two days, but, oh boy. No. I love expo. I, it's my favorite week of the year. I love seeing friends, old friends, meeting new friends. Uh, it reminds me why I love this industry so much.
You know, I think everybody. At the end of the day is in it for the same reasons. We all wanna make our food system a little bit better and we all wanna see the, the other person, the people to our left and our right win. Uh, so it's just, it is exhausting for sure, but really invigorating. How many exposes is this for you?
This is our fourth. Fourth, which, which is kind of nuts. You missed the first one, right? Yes. Um, no. It has been, uh, I was at a dinner last night with some folks who'd been at, to like. 14 or more. Yeah. Um, and I cannot imagine, but no, this is number four and it's very cool to see how every expo is a little bit different mm-hmm.
As you grow and you know, your goals change and you have more friends every time. Um, but I, I really do. I love this week. Yeah. And I referenced that you missed the first one because you started your company in what year? 2020. In 2020. Yes. There was no expo that year. There was no expo that year. I also didn't know what Expo West was at that point.
I have no, I had no experience in this industry. Truly did not know that Expo West was a thing. Well, you know, it's a thing now and you know, all that this industry is, is absolutely insane and crazy and fun. Yes. Um, and it's really fun when you come to an event like this when you have new products, uh, and you evergreen.
Had have just launched a new line of frozen pancakes, which is amazing. We actually launched two new lines this week. Oh, 'cause why? Why stop at one, stop at one, do two. Why? And the two are the two are our pancakes. Okay. Which you referenced and we're so excited about. But we also launched our first protein line.
Ah, yes. For some reason I thought you already had protein, but now I understand why you have some protein pancakes and waffles on the table here. Yes. No, we have been asked for years at this show for the last few years. We've been asked when we were going to do protein, and we held off for a really long time because.
You know, we will get into the story of how Evergreen started, I'm sure. But, um, kind of the hurdle that we always ask ourselves when we are innovating is, is this something that I would wanna feed to my kids? And everybody who was doing protein in the beginning. Largely the protein sources were kind of highly processed.
Soy, you know, isolates, I can't even pronounce the words. And that just felt really inauthentic to who we were and not something that I would wanna give to my kids. So we held off for a long time until we figured out that, hey, we could actually get a really high amount of protein. We've got 10 grams per serving in our waffles, protein waffles, 15 grams per serving in our protein pancakes, but it's just from Greek yogurt and egg whites.
That is incredible. And I just took two bites of your pancakes with, uh, chocolate chips and then I believe that's the protein pancake. Your protein pancake, which I eat a lot of protein pancakes and this looks like what I would make at home. Yeah. Which is pretty awesome. You know, sometimes when you see frozen items, um, like a protein pancake, they don't look anything like mm-hmm.
The homemade version. And this looks exactly what I would make at home. Love it. Yeah, great job. Thank you. And they taste amazing. They don't, there's no compromise in flavor. If you've heard me say anything over the past three days, it's do not compromise the, the consumer doesn't want any kind of compromise when it comes to flavor, right?
You cannot come to market. This is my 15th year of Expo West. 15 years ago, you could get away with saying, okay, it's a little grainy. And it's a little bitter. This doesn't taste perfectly, or it doesn't taste exactly like the legacy products that I'm used to. 2026, you can't do that. Yeah, no, totally. And we have talked a lot on our team.
Uh, you know, again, people have been asking us for protein for years. We finally launched it. I had one person say like, really, protein now isn't protein done. We do not believe it is. Uh, and we also think that there is kind of a trajectory that all trends take. First, it's just getting it on the shelf, right?
People just wanna check the box and get high protein things on the shelf. And then kind of the next step is. Make it taste really good. That's kind of phase two. And then phase three, which we believe we are now entering, is clean it up and that's what we're doing with ours. We're just using real protein sources that you probably have in your fridge already and putting it into our products.
There's a reason for being, for every brand. Your reason for being, for creating evergreen was what my kids. I, this is the truly the biggest surprise of my life, that I am a frozen waffle and pancake maker. Uh, I graduated from Harvard Law School 11, almost 11 years ago now, and was set on a career in.
Corporate law, but that sounds fun. This is way more fun. They did not let you wear pink jumpsuits in big law firms. I, I'll say that. No, they don't. They don't let you make protein pancakes on the, in the kitchen. They don't let make protein pancakes either. Yeah. No, I, I love, I love this, this career, but it is a surprise.
Um. Long story made a lot shorter. Basically, I have my now 7-year-old and I was working a lot as a corporate lawyer, and so as much as I wanted to make her breakfast from scratch every morning knew that was never gonna happen. So started looking for those quick and easy solutions and frozen waffles seemed like a really obvious option.
You can always have them on hand in your freezer. They take like 30 seconds to heat up. I didn't wanna feed her that brand in a yellow box. And went looking for a better for you option. That kind of checked my nutritional boxes and to my dismay, I started flipping around kind of quote unquote better for you brands, packages at the time, and the ingredients were all the same.
I had to google a bunch of stuff. There wasn't really much nutrition in there. And I kind of sat back and I was like, I really don't wanna settle for this. And instead bought a mini waffle iron from Amazon and started making waffles on Sundays. And I'd make these big batches. I had stick 'em in a Ziploc bag and put 'em in the freezer.
And that's what we pulled from during the week. And kind of what I put into it, uh, was just what I had in my fridge and my pantry. I took out my blender. And I threw in whole fruits, whole veggies, whole grain wheat, flour, eggs, nuts, spices, and literally blended it all up together to make the batter. And over the course of about a year, I watched as my daughter just devoured them.
She truly loved them. It made my life so much easier. In the mornings and I actually made the train on time to get into the office, but it also just made me feel so much better. You know, I was a mom struggling with a lot of mom guilt because I was working as much as I was, and to know that I could give her something that she loved and that was good for her, made all the difference in the world.
And I kind of. Sat back at the end of that year and was like, I'm probably not the only mom out there who wants something like this. And so set off on this really wild journey that I've now been on for six years to try to figure out how to get a product on a grocery store shelf with no CPG experience in the middle of a pandemic.
Oh, in the middle of pandemic? Yeah. Yeah. With a very small child and soon to be a second child. So that sounds like, um, a story where you might have a screeching halt after year one. How did you find yourself navigating the industry in that, in those first 12 months? How did you, you know, find a reason to keep going when Of course, and I, I, I'm assuming things were going.
Well, but, you know, still very, very tough that year, that first year, uh, every year has been tough. Yeah. This every, it's, you know, it's, I feel like it's almost like having kids that get older. It's like bigger kids, bigger problems. Mm-hmm. Um, but it's, you know, that's also what makes it fun, figuring out how to solve the problems and the challenges.
Um, that first year or so, I got certified to work out of a shared commercial commercial kitchen. Started making our waffles myself, I dropped down to part-time in my job, so I was still working as a lawyer three days a week. What, what month was this in? 2020. This was, well this was just, this was late 2019.
Okay. Because we actually hit shelves second week of March, 2020. Okay. Wow. Perfect timing. Perfect timing. Uh, so got certified to work out of a shared commercial kitchen. I would go to, I would go to Whole Foods and Costco to get my ingredients. And then I would go make the waffles. I would not recommend that if you're looking for good margins.
But, uh, I could make 46 units, 46 bags of our waffles in a day. So, um, 90, uh, to total bags in a week. Uh, I took those samples, put 'em in a duffle bag with my household toaster and started walking around the corner stores in Chicago. And I would walk in and basically say, my name's Emily. I make waffles. I think they'd be great here.
Can I toast them up for you? To my surprise, everybody was like, sure, you can plug in your household toaster and toast me up some waffles. But that's how we got our first few accounts. And then perhaps with an inflated sense of confidence after getting a few corner stores, I sent a cold email. To the Midwest office of Whole Foods and offered, how'd you get?
How did you get your email address? Google. I'm a very good Googler. Okay. There's a theme throughout my whole story, which is that I'm very good at Google at finding things, manufacturers, you name it. Uh, but, but anyway, so drop them off samples and about two weeks later I got an email back and they said, we love him.
We wanna bring him in. And they were like, how many stores do you wanna start in? You can start real small, like one store. They gave you the option of how many stores you could be in. I mean, it wasn't it within the Midwest. Okay. You know, within Sure. Illinois, but even then, it still mean it's still quite a few.
Well, I said, how many stores are in Illinois? And they said, 28. And I said, that sounds great. And then immediately was like, oh my God, how am I, how am I gonna supply 28 stores? I'm making these by hand. Um, fortunately, found a. Thanks to Google, my friend Google, found a small manufacturer outside of Chicago pretty quickly.
Did our first manufacturing run in January, 2020. That first pallet got picked up later that month and then hit shelves second week of March, 2020. Uh, you were financing all this on your own, I assume, for the first three years. Didn't fundraise or hire for the first three years, so just imagine just me, no experience stumbling around in this very complicated world trying to figure out how to make it work.
Well, I was just talking to another entrepreneur who talked about the importance of capitalization being well capitalized when you start out. I mean, running outta money is the worst part of this business because you're running around trying to sell your products. But also trying to raise every dollar you can and doing both at the same time is brutal.
Um, I mean, did you, you feel like it was a bit of an advantage that you could pay for things on your own to start out? Yeah. It also definitely slowed our growth in the beginning. Mm. You know, I think a lot of people ask, how long have you been at this? I'm like, six years. But it really kind of feels like three because I, you know, not having.
A single team member. I didn't even know. I didn't know what a promo was, like an in-store promo. We didn't, I didn't do promos for the first several years of the business because I thought like the grocery store did the promos. Right, right. When I say I knew nothing, I knew nothing. I've learned a lot over the last six years.
Yeah. You're not the only one who's, uh. D heard the term CPG for the first time and then be like, what's CPG? What is that? You know, the first I was that person for sure. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. You know, when you first launched, I saw Evergreen Night, you know, there was a, a good amount of hype about the brand and um, I remember the green bag and I remember it being in the office and I, I always wondered to myself, who, who is this for?
Um, and I don't mean that in a negative way because I, I think it spoke to me in a really positive way. But, you know, I'm an adult and I feel like. This is a product for adults, but I see your new packaging now and your protein pancakes and your waffles and, and your story about how this was a brand for your kids.
Has your target consumer or your sense of who this is for changed at all? Has it evolved at all as the brand has grown? I love this question because you hit on exactly the reason that we rebranded. No, the, the target consumer has always been families with young kids. I just didn't know how to speak to them.
And didn't realize that I should be using our packaging to do so. Uh, we had white packaging with very, kind of, our logo was in green, different shades of green, very kind of sharp corners. And what, uh, when I hired our, uh, first marketing hire back in 2023, she came to me and she was basically like, Emily, what is your.
Goal for the brand and I said, I believe we can be the next big frozen breakfast brand. She said, great. I think you are a leader who can do it. I think we have a product that can do it, but let me tell you, the brand not gonna do it. She was like, this is not the brand that's gonna be the back next big frozen breakfast brand.
So we actually took Expo 2023 and use it as a really scrappy way to gather a lot of data from a lot of people. And everybody who came up to our booth, we asked them kind of about their experience with the packaging. And just like you said, people were like, um, you know, it speaks to me as like. Health first.
Mm-hmm. Like it looks like the healthiest frozen waffle. To me it, some people were like, is it vegan? 'cause it's green and like evergreen and like, looks like plants. Um, and then the number one piece of feedback we got was these waffles are so much more, we love them. They're so much more delicious than we thought they'd be.
And we were like, Hmm, we're delighted that you love them, but, but also problematic that you didn't think they'd be good. And what we discovered is, was exactly what you said. We were, we were, we were, um, sending the wrong message to our consumers. Frozen waffles are fun, right? Mm-hmm. Um, you know, we walked in here and I gave you a scratch and sniff cartoon sweatshirt, which I can't wait to put on when I.
Get out of this monkey suit of mine. Yeah. It, it goes over monkey suits lovely too. Okay. Um, no, but you know, it's a scratch and sniff sweatshirt that smells like maple syrup. And the whole reason we wanted to do that is, you know, I, I would say most people, for most people, some of their earliest food memories come from breakfast.
You know, for me, my dad made us pancakes out of a box every Sunday. Like I can still smell. Those pancakes walking down into our kitchen. I can still feel like the stickiness of the maple syrup or like the fake maple syrup actually at our house at the time. Mm-hmm. On my fingers. And you know, I can still remember Saturday morning cartoons afterwards.
It was always dug and rugrats for me. But there's so many nostalgic, happy, warm memories associated with things like waffles and pancakes and we were not hitting on that at all. So we totally flipped the pa, the branding on its head. We took the white packaging and we replaced it with these really vibrant colors across the rainbow.
We got rid of our really kind of sharp corners logos and went with a font that was round and kind of almost like you look at it and it feels like a hug. Mm-hmm. You know, even the V is is a nod to a heart. Um, and, and then we also infused personality into it and hinted at. That this is for kids or for families with kids without, you know, plastering a cartoon character on the front.
But so for example. You know the cooking instructions I'm looking at right now on the back, there's a speech bowl that says easy enough to make while half asleep. And on one of our other packages it says, you wish your kids got ready this fast. And so in that way, we're kind of nodding to the parental experience, right?
Um, without making it so overly kid focused, that it turns away adult consumers as well to be the next great pros. Impact, excuse me, three, two. To be the next great frozen breakfast brand. Did I get that right? Lemme try it one more time. Three. Say that 10 times fast. Yeah. Right. Three, two to be the next great frozen breakfast brand.
Jesus. Lemme try this one more time. Three, two. This is, so this is great stuff that ends up on the cutting room floor and they make fun of me for later on in the year three, two to be the next great frozen breakfast brand. I still got it wrong. Oh my God. Last time. Three, two, to be the next great frozen breakfast brand.
I think that accessibility and affordability is critical. Um, I think you're addressing part of the accessibility part of this in your packaging, in how you're positioning the brand for families. That's not all of accessibility. That's part of it. Getting people to feel comfortable with wanting to buy and have this product in their freezers.
But, uh, I, I think in general, if you want people to eat better, they have to be able to find it in the retail stores that are near them and also be able to afford the product. You mentioned the brand in the yellow box that is ubiquitous, that is affordable, may not be the most nutritious and healthy thing to eat, but it is available to a lot of folks.
How do you think about and incorporate affordability and accessibility into your growth strategy? Yeah, we, um, as we have innovated, you'll notice, you know, our first, our original line, our mini waffles are in bags. And they look and feel and taste different than your typical frozen waffle. And they are delicious, but different.
They come in different flavors. You know, carrot cake, peanut butter, banana bread. They're a smaller size. And again, they're in bags. They're in bags. Because remember I started making these out of a shared commercial kitchen. Mm-hmm. And I was like, how the heck am I supposed to seal a carton, but like a bag?
I think I could get a heat sealer on Amazon for 25 bucks and figure that one out. So that's why they're in bags. Turned out that was a huge competitive advantage for us as a new brand entering the space and a, you know, in a sea of boxes. It helped us stand out in the beginning, but as we've innovated, we made the conscious decision to move to cartons so that our products start to look and feel, uh, and taste.
A little bit more like what folks are used to seeing mm-hmm. In frozen waffles because if we're asking them to make a trade right and spend a little bit more, then we want all the other friction to go away. And so that was kind of the reason behind moving to cartons. Uh, we have, you know, making sure we hit the right price point has been really important too.
My goal, and if you step back to. You know, this started as a brand for my kids, but has really evolved into, I believe all kids in the US deserve better food. Only 10% of kids in the US get the daily recommended intake of veggies. Which is a really sad statistic, and it's not like that doesn't have any impact on, you know, their health.
It leads to an increased risk of a whole host of diseases later in life. Yeah, I mean, that's where I think, just to interject for a sec. Yeah. I mean like public health and um, entrepreneurship can really work hand in hand because the big players are not going to change their. Ways. They have no reason to, they have no incentive to.
So, and it's hard. And it's hard when you're that big. Yeah. It takes so long. Yeah. And you know, the margins are really thin and they're just doing a lot based on volume. So it's, it's incumbent upon entrepreneurs to lead the path, to change the system as, as a group. Yeah. Um, and I, and I'm, I'm, I applaud you for what you're doing and I think, you know, again, the 10% number that you just quoted is just.
Ludicrous. Ludicrous for, for a country like the United States, it, I could not agree more. Uh, so, you know, we have hidden veggies in, in all of our waffles as well. As, you know, we're a hundred percent whole grain. We use avocado oil instead of seed oils. We use maple syrup instead of refined sugars. Um. And so my, my ultimate goal, I wanna be on every grocery store shelf.
You know, to me, evergreen is not just a natural channel brand, it is a mass channel brand as well. Because I wanna be within arm's reach of every kid in America. Um, I'd love to do a big K through 12 business at some point, you know? Yes. That's a nice channel to get into as well. But, but more so for the mission, because that's, you know, where you access all, all the, all the kids.
Uh, but so we've been. You know, really thoughtful in in how we price you. We're always gonna be more expensive than that brand any in a yellow box, just by nature of the ingredients that we're using. But we make sure that, you know, we are kind of indexed to the rest of our competitors that have really broad distribution as well.
Um. But, but yeah, like I said, like I said in the beginning when I was getting my ingredients from Whole Foods and, oh yeah, that's gonna be a problem. And Costco margins weren't so good. Um, but we've, you know, been really diligent to, to get them to a good spot without having to raise price. We've actually never raised our prices.
What's your everyday price for the waffles and pancakes? Depends on kind of the retailer and route to market, but 5 99 to 6 99 typically, I, I mean, I think those are appropriate prices for natural retailers. For specialty retailers. Um, once you're getting into places like Target and Walmart, you would think that people are gonna say, okay, think $5 is, is, you know, the price point that I would think of, or I'd assume.
For premium waffles, premium pancakes, it's actually a little higher. Is it? Most of us are in the kind of five to six range, and we dip down even, even below 5, 9, 9, depending on the retailer. But no, we, there is a band of pretty consistently priced waffle, uh, pancakes and waffles that, that we are in. Again, I, I think Whole Foods is the expected retailer for evergreen, at least at launch.
When did you feel like you had permission to go to all the retailers and sell that story, sell the data story and the vision for Evergreen? Yeah. We started expanding beyond natural call it 18 months ago. We are now, you know, as our, as of our last few data poll polls we're the number one frozen waffle brand in the top two national natural retailers.
Which is really surreal when you think about me in my kitchen with my blender and my min waffle iron. Yeah. Six years is not a very far, uh, it, it, it, you think about six years as being a long time ago. It's really not. It. This has been quick. It, it has felt quick for sure. Yeah. And also sometimes felt very long, but mostly very quick.
Yeah. Um, but, you know, we, uh, love data for, for a brand of our size. I think we love data, you know, more than most. And what we have learned. Is that syrup, car syrup carriers, which is my favorite term that I've learned in the last carrier six years. Never heard that term before. Oh yeah. So waffles, pancakes, french toast.
Okay. Um, frozen syrup carriers have 60% household penetration in the us, which is a pretty staggering statistic. 20% of evergreen shoppers. Are brand new to category despite that massive household penetration. So we have succeeded in bringing this brand new consumer over to the aisle that previously never even considered syrup carriers.
Mm-hmm. Uh, because we are doing something so different. So that, that was kind of the number one statistic that made us think like. You know, that's not just in the natural channel and conventional, we can help these retailers grow their categories. 'cause we're just bringing a whole new consumer over. Yeah.
That they haven't previously been able to tap into. Not only is that consumer new, but they're also high value. So our shopper spends nearly two times as much on syrup carriers and shop syrup carriers nearly two times as often as the average consumer. In the natural general? No, just in general. In general.
Wow. So new consumer, high value consumer. Uh, those are win-wins for any retailer partner across any channel. Uh, and then you get beyond that and you look at growth rates. You know, frozen waffles over the last several years have been, you know, stagnant at best as a category. We have grown, you know, triple digits ever since we've been on the scene, and so we have this opportunity to come in and help.
You know, if, if a retailer gives us a little space on the shelf, we we're bringing a new consumer, a high value consumer, and we're a high growth brand that can automatically grow their category and has, I think, made us a great partner for these retailers who are looking to expand, expand their growth.
The two words every retail buyer wants to hear is incremental value. What are you bringing to my stores that. Is going to help me sell more product is going to drive our revenue numbers up. Because if it's just gonna be the same or worse, why would I bring your product? Why would I bring your brand into my stores?
I talk to a lot of, uh, budding entrepreneurs and one of the, I give them typically two pieces of advice when thinking about what products they might wanna bring to market. And I always say, I think incrementality, something truly differentiated is table stakes. Like, if you're just making the same old thing, don't, don't even bother starting.
Right. And so for us, you know, our, our differentiation is our hidden veggies in protein, right? The only reason we decided it was worth doing protein is because we were doing it with Greek yogurt and egg whites, real whole foods that nobody has been doing in our category before. So that's our differentiation.
And then the other piece of advice I always give is try to try to find a product that fills. Uh, an authentic need in your own life because this is a, it's a really hard journey, as we've alluded to a few times, but never once have I even considered throwing in the towel because I live my brand every day.
My kids eat our waffles and now pancakes, although they've eaten me out of all of our samples, and they're very upset about it, uh, if not for breakfast snack, I, I, you know, our new waffles are individually wrapped. Throw that frozen waffle in my daughter's backpack in the morning, buy snack time at school.
It's thawed, you know, lunch, I'll use them in, in lieu of bread for peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, dessert. Put a scoop of, of ice cream or whipped cream on top. I mean, I truly, I live our brand every day and I see how much easier it makes my life. And so I could never throw in a towel because I need our own products, you know?
Yeah. Um, and it also, the other reason I think, kind of authenticity and filling a real need is so important is. It's very easy to get knocked off. You know, your North Star, um, people all day every day are gonna encourage you to compromise in ingredients to increase your margins or make manufacturing easier.
But if you have a really clearly defined North star, that means something to you really, personally. And for me, like I said, we always go back when we're thinking about innovation to what I feel good about giving this to my kids. I can never stray from that. That will always guide me. And so I've had so many manufacturers be like, these ingredients are really hard.
They're so clean, it's gonna stick to the equipment or. You know, it would be much easier to achieve the texture you're looking for if we put a gum in or an emulsifier. But it's so easy for me to say, nope. Like, that is not authentic to our brand. And as a result, I think we've been able to build a brand that, that families know is gonna continue to have their best interests at heart and only use ingredients that they're gonna feel comfortable with.
I have a question about investors, but I, I gotta hold off. Because this is a really important question about data and how you're utilizing data to help sell your story. The anecdotal, the vision, all that is great. But to be able to get retailers on board, to get investors on board, you have to give them a data story that's really.
Not only believable, but compelling. Mm-hmm. Where are you getting your data from? Is it expensive? Is it worth every penny of their investment? Yes and yes. Okay. It is expensive and it is worth every penny of the investment. We've also been fortunate to. Win a number of pitch slams and get access to some free data that way.
Interesting. Which have given us really important nuggets over the years. But no, I sometimes I think back to before we had data and I was like, how do we, how did we do it? Because you're right. Investors and retailers are looking for those numbers. Uh, and we are very fortunate. To have a really strong data story.
You know, our growth is way outpacing the category. Our velocities are really strong. Like I said, we can show we have a really incremental consumer and we can grow categories, but, but no, everything we do is grounded in data we build. For every retailer pitch, we build specific decks for them using their own category data.
That's really smart. We go really deep. Our VP of sales actually was at SPINS for five years. Mm-hmm. And that was a very intentional hire because as I said, my goal is to be the next big frozen breakfast company. And to do that, we need to be a partner that retailers look to, to help educate them and to to help.
Them understand where the trends are and to help them understand where the category's going. And so that's really a responsibility that we have, that we have taken upon ourselves, um, and view as a really important part of our role in, in the industry. Back to investors for a sec. You have to be aligned with investors who believe in the vision that you have, um, and are willing to say, okay, if.
Margins are impacted, or I dunno, maybe if maybe they wouldn't, you know, go that far, but someone who's willing to be a little bit stubborn about their brand, um, someone who's not willing to fold because it's going to help, you know, your margins by a percentage point. I, I, I think, you know, some investors would just say, look, I, this is not for me, you know, for, for a number of reasons.
But I, I think when you're talking to folks that are going to be. I mean, essentially, you know, in battle with you, um, you have to trust them and they have to trust you. So when you're, you know, pitching your brand and, and finding these folks, what has really resonated most? Is it the data story? Is it your vision for the brand?
Is it, I, I know you can say there's a combination of all these things, but. What has really impacted your story the most in terms of success in acquiring funding? I think the answer to that shifts over time. In the beginning, you know, for our seed round, I think it was probably largely my vision. Mm-hmm.
Right? Where I believed this could go, uh, with a sprinkle of data in there too. You know, I think you have to show that you have. Baseline velocities that are strong and promising and that you can continue to build upon. Then, you know, we just closed our series A at the end of the year. You know, those conversations were very different than the conversations I was having with our series seed investors.
More, uh, margin focus. Mm-hmm. You know, unit economics. Now that we've established that we are a category leader in natural, um, you know, do we have the unit economics to, to continue to scale this thing in a sustainable, healthy way. So, um, and fortunately, I think we've, we've been able to tell that story and, and bring on incredible partners.
We, I've had so many people come up to me at the show and be like, congra, congrats on the fundraiser. Are you so happy you're done? I'm like, yes, of course. Of course. I'm very happy that we got it across the finish line, but I also genuinely really love fundraising and it's because. I've been lucky to be surrounded with great investors who believe in what we're building, and yes, they care about the numbers and the margins, and they've made me a better leader and the company a better company for it.
Um, but they're also just great partners who are passionate about, about what we're building and the opportunity here. And so I view. Fundraising is an opportunity to find kind of the next voices to bring around the table. As I said in the beginning, like this is very much my first rodeo in CBG, and I am acutely aware of what I don't know, and my goal has always been just to surround myself with people who've been doing this a lot longer and who have a lot more experience and from whom.
I can learn, you know, I was a lifelong athlete. I consider myself very coachable. And so I love bringing on new investors and getting new voices and new perspectives around the table, and I just think it makes me better and, and the brand better. Have you said no to any investors? I have, and they've all given me, I won't, I won't swear on your podcast, but they've given me a hard time at the show for it in a loving way.
Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I, I can see that. Yeah. I mean, but why do you say no? Uh, oversubscribed. Okay. Oh, wow. Very lucky. That's a good position to be in. No, very, very lucky to be oversubscribed. I've not said no to anybody because I didn't think they'd be a good partner. Okay. No, I, and, and that's something too that I say to other founders, like, I have never talked to an investor who I wouldn't wanna do a, a deal with.
I think I, I love the investor community, uh, in, in this industry. Yeah. I mean, I ask that because, I dunno how many times I've heard of the horror stories or heard a horror story about. An investor who gets too involved in the day-to-day or is, you know, is too critical of what the path is for a particular brand.
And um, you know, how many times have we seen founders kicked outta their own companies? And I mean, that is the ultimate horror story, right? Right. Um, so you have to, again, going back to trust, you have to be willing to say, this is a partner. This is someone that is not going to kick me outta my company for.
You know, any reason, even if things are going wrong with, or, you know, times are tough with the brand. Um, and I think that the vetting process has to happen, um, on both sides. A million percent. I, you know, as a, as a good former lawyer, do my reverse diligence on any investor and I talk to other portfolio company founders and make sure that, you know, my impression of that investor as somebody I wanna partner with is, is right.
And so I, I, I speak to multiple founders, uh, before I, before I bring them on. Yeah. I mean, it's really smart to do as much homework as you can on folks. And I, I get. Emails and texts every so often from founders who are like, do you know this person? Do you know that person? What's your take on this person?
And sometimes it's a tough conversation to have. Mm-hmm. Um, because I really, truly love most people in this industry. Um, but fit is a really, you know, yeah. Is this the right fit for your brand? Is this the right personality fit? You know, sometimes it's just not there. Yep. Yeah. Um, it, it is really amazing and admirable to see what you've built.
Emily, I, I think. You know, I ask this all the time to founders, which is, are you happy? Um, are you satisfied? You know, what's, what's gonna make you even more happy? What's gonna be make you more satisfied? And I think the easy answer is to say, well, to sell more product, to be able to deliver the value that we're creating for a particular category to that retailer, to that end consumer.
But is there something specific beyond. I guess the obvious that really keeps you going, that makes you even happier every single day that you're doing this. I love, I truly love this world. I. J jump out of bed in the morning, excited to work, and I wake up very early and I'm still very excited to work.
What time do you wake up Every morning? Four 30. That's too pm but I can genuinely say that I, I just feel really lucky to get to do this every day. But you know, for me, uh, I, I'll probably never be satisfied. I'm not one, it's not really my personality, but the more kids' hands we can get good food into the better.
And that, that is the end goal just to, you know, I think that if we can fix the food that we're giving to our kids, it just has this domino effect and we'll have happier, healthier kids and a happier, healthier country as a result. So that is the end goal. I mean, I love that. Um, and, and if you have that belief, if you have that vision, I think it makes digging yourself out of the.
Problems and the really difficult challenges and the times when you're like, this isn't gonna work. I have to stop. I have to quit. I think that gives you the motivation to keep going. And, you know, again, I, I talk to entrepreneurs for a living and oftentimes I'll find folks who are like, kind of at the end of their rope and like, I, I don't know what to do.
And sometimes they have to have that hard conversation with themselves, but the ones who are like, I've gotta figure this out. Uh, this is what I have to do. Those are the ones who almost always succeed. Yeah. You got, you gotta have the fire burning deep down in your belly. Yeah. Because it would be very easy to throw in the towel probably every day.
Yeah. You know, there are really, it's, it's, like I said, it's really hard. The, the rollercoaster is real, the emotional rollercoaster is real. Um, but if you have that north star that is bigger than just, you know. Selling units, then it makes it all that much easier. Have you ever come close to quitting? No. I can honestly say no.
That's great. I've, I've cried many tears. Yeah. But I've never thought about quitting. Outstanding. That's, that's a really good way to wrap up this conversation. I think. Never quit. Um, even though the, you know, the fail rate is real. I mean, it's not an easy business, but, um, if it's not part of your persona, if it's not part of your ethos, if it's the ethos, if it's not part of.
Who you are as a brand, I think, um, you can go pretty far with that mindset. So Emily, thank you so much for taking the time. I really appreciate this conversation. Um, I know it's been a long time coming and I'm so excited to see where you go from here. 'cause there's a huge runway for this brand. Thank you.
Thank you so much for having me.
