[00:00:09] Ray Latif: Hello friends, and thanks for tuning in to Taste Radio, the number one podcast for anyone building a business in food or beverage. I'm Ray Latif, the editor and producer of Taste Radio, and I'm here with my co-hosts, John Craven, Jacqui Brugliera, and Mike Schneider. In this episode, we're joined by Tara Lindley, the Director of Sensory QA and New Product Development for revered whiskey brand, High West. John Craven, you love the High West, don't you? You're a big fan. Sure, yeah, you ever been to their distillery in Utah. They invited me to go you want to come sounds nice doesn't it? Maybe have you been to Utah? Yeah, really?
[00:00:46] Tara Lindley: We're Salt Lake City Park City. Okay, you're skiing for the skiing. Yeah, you know what they do up there I mean more for the opera skiing but Oh, the Opry ski, okay. I just put my skis on at the car in the parking lot and then kind of walk on over to wherever they sell nachos and beer.
[00:01:07] New Product: Okay, so you walk into the bar, you're like, you take your goggles off, you're like, what a ski. Give me a beer. He doesn't even know you can go in without your skis on.
[00:01:16] Tara Lindley: Have you ever seen Jerry of the day, Ray?
[00:01:20] Ray Latif: Never.
[00:01:21] Tara Lindley: I'm featured on there. Maybe not as much as Mike, but yeah.
[00:01:25] Ray Latif: Okay. I have never been featured on Jerry of the day. I'll let you guys Google that because I have no idea what you're talking about.
[00:01:31] New Product: It's safe for work. Don't worry. It's safe for work. It's funny. It's just some guy wiping out on skis really stupidly, you know, every day.
[00:01:38] Ray Latif: Okay, cool. John, you missed the best fancy food show ever. You did. You really did. You were in the old country in Ireland. How was that? Great. Yeah. Oh yeah. You see anything cool?
[00:01:50] Tara Lindley: Uh, Guinness.
[00:01:53] New Product: Obviously. Crap loads of American Single dumb things. I don't know, normal stuff when you travel to Europe. You know, you took the Jerry's with you.
[00:01:59] Ray Latif: They're not skiing Bright News, so they've got plenty of time to go to Ireland. The big question everyone always wants to know, is the Guinness better over there?
[00:02:07] Tara Lindley: Sure, it's cheaper. Is it really? Yeah. How much is it a pint? I got a pint for as cheap as, uh, five euro, half pint for 2.90.
[00:02:16] Ray Latif: Five euros, like 7.50 here, right?
[00:02:19] Tara Lindley: No, it's like one euro is, uh, sorry. One dollar, I think 18 is one euro. Oh, okay.
[00:02:26] Ray Latif: So six six a little over six cheap okay cheap less expensive than here I wouldn't challenge you to find a quality beer for that price No, I use a scavenge for the cheapest Guinness in City And I did find one that bar that has a skanky keg that they need to get rid of no no no It was a bar in Dorchester, and they used to sell imperial pints of Guinness and I think it was $4.75 or $4.50. This was like five years ago and then times have changed. Now the cheapest I can find in Boston is $8.
[00:02:59] New Product: I can't wait to make some relative Guinness searcher AI.
[00:03:03] Tara Lindley: I mean you can go to Temple Bar in Dublin. I think it's like 12 euros or something.
[00:03:09] Ray Latif: Oh my gosh.
[00:03:09] Tara Lindley: Yeah. Forget about that. Forget about it.
[00:03:12] Ray Latif: Well, if you're searching for information about how to scale your business, looking for data information about how to make your brand a lot better than it is today, well, we can help out because guess what? Nombase has just introduced its Data Hub. Jackie, what is this all about?
[00:03:33] High West: Yeah, so we've been, you know, teasing, saying that we're gonna be launching some new features on nonbase, which it is a central resource for the CPG industry and the Data Hub is Bringing all of our data and information together, so across BevNET, Nosh, and Brewbound, we're taking all of the reports that we have in partnership with CGA, powered by NIQ, Aggregate, Three Tier Beverages, Fabid, Spate, and Brightfield Group, and putting them in one place where you can search, comb through all of our archive of data. and, you know, do some benchmarking, see what's been going on in the industry the last couple quarters, whether it's purchasing data, you're looking at trends, you're looking at specific categories, you can go there and take a look.
[00:04:21] Ray Latif: Even got commodities data.
[00:04:22] High West: We do.
[00:04:24] Ray Latif: Yeah, I love it. All the good stuff. Consumer behavior and demand shifts, social listening and brand health, supply chain, macroeconomic and investment insights. I love all this stuff. And it's all included if you are an insider, a subscriber of our insider platform. And guess what? If you sign up now, you get 20% off your first year. So. Kind of a no-brainer. How do you sign up, Ray? Specifically to get the 20% off discount, go to Taste Radio.com slash Data Hub, D-A-T-A-H-U-B, and you'll get 20% off an annual membership to become an insider. Once again, it's really a no-brainer. It's probably the best money you'll spend to get the most amount of data all in the same place. And it's really, I think that's the hardest part sometimes about searching for consumer insights, trends, data reports. It's all over the place. But with non-based Data Hub, it's all in one place, which is awesome. Get in one place and we're consistently adding more. Exactly, exactly. Well, a lot of people are looking for data. A lot of other people, well, I think most people in this industry are looking for money. But guess what? Good news. There is a new fund that has been announced. Shore Capital Partners announced that they've closed on a $450 million Food and beverage fund three. It is fantastic news for companies that are bringing in between five and a hundred million dollars in annual revenue. And Shure is going to be very active in this space. In 2022, Shure, which is a Chicago based private equity firm, closed its second food and beverage fund with about $300 million in funding. So this one, a bit more in that regard, I would say 50% more. Are we doing the math here, 50% more? Sure, whatever you say. Okay, there you go. So if you're looking to learn more about the investments they will be making over the next year or so, you can head to Nosh.com or BevNET.com and read the story by our very own Shauna Golden. Now, please note that insiders get full access to this story, but once again, $450 million, get a piece of that and learn how at Nosh or BevNET.com. Exciting news also for a brand that we hold near and dear to our hearts. That brand is Sunny, S-U-N-N-I-E, which is a maker of, how would you describe it? Convenient kid snacks. But I think they're also for adults as well. Yeah. I mean, they're just convenient snacks. Yeah. I think they've actually dialed back on their kids positioning a bit and really focused on just making easy snacking kits. So basically, I don't know how to describe this without describing, uh, Jackie, what were those things where you'd get lunchable, but no, you peel back the thing and you'd fund it.
[00:07:13] High West: Oh yeah.
[00:07:13] Ray Latif: Fund it or the cheese dip, you know, where you have like pretzels on one end of the thing and you have peanut butter or cheese on the other end.
[00:07:22] New Product: Yeah. Why would you describe that?
[00:07:23] Ray Latif: They're making much better versions. So they have a jam snack. It's made with sunflower butter and it looks like Chia Smash jam, a cocoa snack and a zesty hummus snack. So they're doing a lot with airline lounges, which was really great to see. They're in over 50 airports across High Country, American Airlines, Delta, and they're really trying to expand where they are in retail stores as well. They're currently in Whole Foods and Target. I'm really happy for this brand because they're a former Nosh Live Pitch Slam winner. And so they picked up, did I even mention that? I mean, we don't take it away from them.
[00:07:58] New Product: So they're not really former. Yeah.
[00:07:59] Ray Latif: I don't even think I mentioned the Bright News. The Bright News is that they picked up a million dollars in new funding from Santa Terra Capital, which is really great to see. They're going to be using the money toward continued growth, operations, inventory, and working capital, according to a story penned by our very own Adrianne DeLuca. Congratulations to Katie Tucker and Lizette Howard who launched the company in 2020. So really great news on that.
[00:08:25] New Product: This is really great news. I love their sun butter so much. I'd love a jar of that.
[00:08:30] Ray Latif: Maybe they'll make one just for you.
[00:08:31] New Product: I mean, I think they're just going to, you know, with a million dollars, I would go heads down and do more of what they're doing.
[00:08:38] Ray Latif: I'm just happy you didn't bring up your damn pinky to your lip like you usually do when anyone says a million dollars.
[00:08:44] New Product: I mean, it's retired. It's retired. Okay. I'd rather talk about Sonny than my damn pinky.
[00:08:52] Ray Latif: That's really great news. Yes, indeed. All right. We haven't done a buyer's sale in a while. And I saw something on Nosh that was related to some coverage from the Fancy Food Show about Dubai chocolate. Everyone's seen Has Dubai chocolate craze. I mean, it's just too much of this stuff.
[00:09:11] New Product: It's pretty much everywhere.
[00:09:13] Ray Latif: If you're not familiar with Dubai chocolate, it's a chocolate, milk chocolate bar that's filled with pistachio cream and kadaif. Kadaif is a, I believe a sort of thin pastry or thin dough pastry.
[00:09:25] New Product: It's delicious.
[00:09:26] Ray Latif: Yes. Yes. It's very good. So yeah, I mean, you've seen Dubai chocolate all over the place at Fancy Food Show. It literally was everywhere. And Adrian and Monica Watrous wrote this story. There's, you know, Just The Fun Part, you know, This Little cones, those snacking cones, they Has Dubai cones now. There'Has Dubai style snacking chocolates. There's just all kinds of stuff out there Bright News. But at this point, I think we've hit peak Dubai chocolate. In fact, I believe at this point, Dubai chocolate has jumped the shark. So I'm buying that it has. Mike, what do you think?
[00:10:01] New Product: I think it's just a new flavor that people Like Air's just a new variety of chocolate people like and there's a place for it So why not everybody have it so you don't think it's jump to show.
[00:10:11] Ray Latif: I don't think so. Okay, Jackie. What do you think? I'm buying buying this jump. Yeah, it's done.
[00:10:17] High West: There's just Like Air huge flood of it You know and what is it gonna happen now like something's gonna shake up people are gonna eat it John Craven
[00:10:26] Tara Lindley: I don't think we've reached peak of it until there's like Dubai chocolate. I don't know like Dog food? Kit Kat and Snickers and you know mainstream I don't know Oreos or something like that.
[00:10:38] New Product: That's a fair point. Until Trader Joe's is taking over.
[00:10:40] Tara Lindley: I think awareness of it is pretty limited to be Does Dubai chocolate lattes?
[00:10:45] Ray Latif: Well yeah I mean I think we've seen Dubai chocolates in some coffee chains at this point already. I think I want to say what's the British chain? Cafe Nero? Sure. I think Cafe Nero already has some Dubai chocolate in there. Yeah, but I guess you're right. I think until we start seeing it Dubai Snickers and Kit Kat and things like that, then it really has. I think it's Jumpy Shark.
[00:11:08] Tara Lindley: It's kind of a weird name for something that you can't really figure out from said name. Like, that gives you no real useful point of reference if you're not familiar. But it is a sort of pretty tried and true combo.
[00:11:23] New Product: Yeah. I mean, if you've seen TikTok at all, then you know Has Dubai Chocolate is. That's it. Yeah.
[00:11:28] Ray Latif: Yeah. True enough. True enough. Now we've seen the Maha community rail against artificial flavors, colors, ingredients in food, specifically in snacks and candy. And there's been some success there. I'm, you know, I will be very clear, I'm not part of the Maha movement, but I've been very happy to see the fact that Corporations have made commitments to remove artificial ingredients from candies and snacks and so on and so forth. So that's cool. But I'm wondering what the next maja domino to fall might be. And you know what? I've been hearing nothing more dangerous to human health than microplastics lately. Apparently microplastics are everywhere. You are consuming quite a bit every single day, unbeknownst to you, just by, I don't know, drinking out of anything that's packaged or if you have plastic wrapped candy or who knows. But basically everyone is eating too much microplastics at this point. I'm wondering if the Maha community is going to come after plastic next. Do you think it's the next domino to fall? John Craven, buy or sell plastic?
[00:12:37] Tara Lindley: How do I even answer this? No.
[00:12:39] Ray Latif: You don't think it, no. No, it's just not. So you're selling.
[00:12:41] Tara Lindley: It's an impossibility. I think also in a time where, you know, there's still concerns about supply chain stuff, inflation, I don't know, steel tariffs, all that sort of stuff. It's just an impossibility to, you know, have that be the hill that you're going to die on.
[00:13:00] Ray Latif: Okay.
[00:13:00] Tara Lindley: I mean, even like you're going to eat in a restaurant, you don't think all that stuff that's on your plates in a deli container somewhere in the kitchen in the back, you know, Like Air mean, there's just plastic everywhere.
[00:13:09] Ray Latif: There is. Yeah.
[00:13:10] Tara Lindley: Jackie.
[00:13:11] High West: Yeah, I'm selling too. I think like there's other maybe lower hanging fruit that they could go after to make like immediate change rather than like Craven was saying, trying to get rid of all plastic. I think there's also still a disconnect of people not really understanding the impact of microplastics and like they see food dyes and they're like, oh yes, I'm eating that and that's bad for me. But plastic, there's maybe another piece of education there.
[00:13:37] Tara Lindley: I think also there's sort of with a lot of this stuff, kind of a missing element of even with the artificial colors, flavorings, it's like, you know, these are just truly rhetorical questions. It's like, do you want less artificial plastic, whatever? But it's also Like Air you willing to pay more because of that? And that seems to be a real sort of conflict in society in general here. So I'm not really sure that people who are abandoning these things...
[00:14:08] Ray Latif: Understand exactly the impact to their own personal wallet from those things, and I think if those were paired together more they might not be so Rah-rah about it, so you're saying that by reducing or Eliminating the ingredients that they're railing against they're actually in the long run charging themselves more money than
[00:14:29] Tara Lindley: I think potentially in some cases, yes. Not in all, obviously. I'm not trying to make a blanket statement that every single thing that we change for the better results in that. But yeah, I think some of this stuff does come at the cost of increased price. And certainly there are people that are in a position to not care about that, but not everyone is.
[00:14:50] Ray Latif: Fair enough. I personally, I mean, I would love to see more glass. I mean, I drink a lot of water out of plastic bottles and I start to wonder if that's something I should stop doing. But is the demand, is the, I guess, is the concern about microplastics enough to get the community riled up, that Maha community, Mike? You buying or selling that?
[00:15:13] Tara Lindley: I mean, Mike just eats plastic.
[00:15:15] Ray Latif: Mike just chews on plastic. I'm chewing on it now.
[00:15:18] New Product: Why do you think I wasn't contributing? I had to have my plastic supplement of the day. Okay. I mean, first of all, I don't think they've won the war in quotes on food dyes yet. So I think that's going to be, that's going to take a while and plastics is a far bigger issue. So, yeah, I mean, I think it's something that they'll start to talk about, but I don't know if it's the next thing. There's things that are adjacent to food dyes that you can take on next that seem to be maybe easier steps for them to get some wins. And I like that they're going after food dyes. I hope they get some wins here and change the food system. That'd be great.
[00:15:53] Ray Latif: Yeah, that's a really good point. I think, as Jackie mentioned, sort of the lower hanging fruit might be an easier target because plastic is such a humongous part of our society. And unfortunately so, because I think that the lie that we were told by the petroleum companies about the ease of recyclability and the ease of recycling of plastic was perhaps one of the greatest lies ever told. And it's really hard to scale that back, really hard to dial that back because it does touch every part of our society Bright News. But who knows? Little by little, I think these kinds of conversations and people becoming more aware of the dangers of microplastics and, you know, some of the things that we're hearing about it contributing to strokes and heart attacks and so on and so forth will cause at least some movement in the right direction or a positive change as it relates to the CPG industry. All right. Last buyer sell. I mentioned Peak Dubai Chocolate. Okay. I would agree we probably haven't hit Peak Dubai Chocolate, but I do think it has jumped the shark. Have we hit Peak Chili Crunch though? Now, last week at the Fancy Food Show, or I guess it was a week and a half ago at this point, I came across an amazing little brand or upstart brand called Hallelujah. And it's spelled J-A-L-L-U-J-A-H. And they make fantastic- Hallelujah? Hallelujah. Yeah. Or maybe it is hallelujah. I don't know. Maybe. Hallelujah. But it's basically make a- Butchered nonetheless. Yes, I butchered it. I think he pronounced it hallelujah. Anyway. Okay. They make an amazing jalapeno chili crisp. And I mentioned this last week that when I posted it on Instagram, I got a lot of responses. It looks spicy. Then I realized I have a free sample. It is. You can, you want to, you can try it. It's already spilling out there. But anyway, then I realized how much chili crisp I have at home, either in my pantry or my fridge. Crisp and crunch. So yeah. So crisp and crunch. Oh man, this is cultural misappropriation here. That's salsa matcha. This is, they describe it as chili crisp. They describe it as a Mexican chili crisp.
[00:17:57] High West: Oh, okay.
[00:17:57] New Product: I mean, that's, that's for marketing, but yeah, that's a different, different animal. I mean, okay. We've had these conversations with, with founders. Like you asked Jing Gao herself about the similarities between Sichuan food and Mexican food. I don't.
[00:18:10] Ray Latif: Okay, so I'm going to explain this in terms of use case, right? So in use case, people are probably using Chili Crisp and Salsa Matcha in similar ways. In similar use cases, I'd say that's okay. Okay, so Somos has one. Okay, so if you recall This Little goats. This Little Goat, they had a couple of years ago, they launched a chili crunch with Hidden Valley Ranch. Okay, so that's three we got there. Now we, Capitano, which I love this brand, they make a salsa matcha that they describe as a Mexican-style chili crunch. Mumbo Fuco, as we know, now they have many chili crunches, but they have a garlic crunch right here. This was in my fridge. As we know, and this caused a lot of controversy a couple of years ago, Heinz, Heinz, the maker of ketchup, they launched a culinary crunch. What are you, just stocking all these? Fly-by-Jing, obviously the original. The OG chili crisp.
[00:19:02] New Product: Thank you.
[00:19:03] Ray Latif: So Masala Gossip, if we had Masala Gossip, we featured them on the show a couple of weeks ago, or maybe three weeks ago. They have a Chili Crisp as well, Masala Chili Crisp. Now you're going to give me crap about this because this is an Indian style Chili Crisp? No, no, that's good. Okay, there we go.
[00:19:15] New Product: I'm not going to give you any crap about any of these except that Masala Gossip, Heinz, Momofuku, Capitana little goats and so most please note that if you want us to actually eat your products send them to the Bevanette office not to Ray No, some of this stuff actually most of this stuff actually was sent to the Bevanette office.
[00:19:34] Ray Latif: I have just Okay, so Bright News we have 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 8 brands just on the table There's probably two dozen more of course there are yeah, yeah, I mean have you seen the hot sauce aisle I?
[00:19:48] Tara Lindley: I mean, this is the thing here. You're treating This Little Chili Crisp is like ketchup, where they kind of all basically are the same thing. Largely a staple commodity. And this is more like hot sauce. They're nuanced flavors. Like, would, I don't know, Fly-by-Jing taste good on a taco? Probably, Just The Somos are a salsa matcha that's got like the right chilies to pair with Mexican food. probably will taste better.
[00:20:13] New Product: I don't know about that. I don't know.
[00:20:15] Tara Lindley: I Like Air fusion taco.
[00:20:16] Ray Latif: Yeah, but fish taco with... You make a weird fusion taco.
[00:20:19] Tara Lindley: This is my question.
[00:20:21] Ray Latif: Have we reached peak chili crunch? Because you said it's just like hot sauces and ketchup.
[00:20:25] Tara Lindley: I mean, at that point... No, I said it's like hot sauce, not like ketchup. It's like no one stocks like... I've got five different brands of ketchup in my fridge. You kind of probably got one Or you bought one because they were out of the other one, but you're not like, oh, am I in the mood for Heinz or Like Air don't know, whoever else. Is it a commodity is what you're saying? Yeah, I mean, it's kind of like you got your one that you probably just bought and you go to and you don't have a whole variety of them. Whereas I think people who are into like hot sauce probably have a couple. There's probably some people that are like, fine, I just eat Cholula, Tabasco, whatever. But I think there might be a consumer out there who kind of is into a couple of these. They probably don't have this many like you who's hoarding and clearly has a problem. fear for your wife. But anyway, um, you know, I think we'll liberate you from Ray. We'll eat this one. I think this is, I think what we're seeing here is also Just The different cultural cuisines have their own form of this type of product too, which is cool.
[00:21:24] Ray Latif: I think that's the big question for me. I think we have hit peak chili crunch, which is why I'm buying on my own question here and why I'm saying to brands that are considering introducing a chili crisp or chili crunch. Then maybe, you know, there's just too much of this stuff already out there.
[00:21:39] Tara Lindley: I would say that if somebody were launching this, the challenge with it is that it's probably, at this point, not the highest velocity product type to launch, just in that there are a lot of different ones. So a consumer's ability to consume these and need to get more might be questionable.
[00:22:01] High West: I think I'm buying that it's at its peak. There's a lot of options, but, you know, the fact that, like, Heinz has its own version is showing that it is more mainstream now. But I personally also have a bunch of chili crisps, and I like trying new ones, you know? So...
[00:22:20] Ray Latif: I was waiting for a day like this to be honest with you where I could talk about this.
[00:22:38] New Product: Per what John was saying before, it just depends on what you're in the mood for. And I guess I'm on a mission to try Sichuan chili crisp flat Baijing on everything. So I'll put it on everything. But then there are times when I'd rather have Masala Gossip or, I mean, now I've got Like Air jar of Masala Bliss achar, which is kind of adjacent to that. It's another condiment that has spice and awesome curry flavor. And you can use that similarly too. I think it just depends on, you know, how much flavor you like, what flavors you like, and then these give you that option to make anything taste that way too. So that's the nice thing about it is that if you want, you know, you want Sichuan flavor, go to Fly Bai Jing, or go to Hot Pot Queen, or if you want Malaysian or Indonesian, you could go to Homiya's Chili Crunch is amazing. And now we've got Desi flavors with Masala Gossip and Masala Bliss. And, you know, for Mexican, you can go to Somos. I mean, there's Just The's so many good directions to go in Bright News. And I don't think that that has jumped the shark yet. I think we're just getting started, really. Gloria Chateau, you know, you can put that Chateau on everything. That stuff's amazing. There's no shortage of awesome flavor Bright News. And I don't think we should be like, oh, it's over.
[00:24:01] Ray Latif: Fair enough. Fair enough. And to be, I just want to be clear to our listeners, Heinz has exited the market of chili crunch. This is a very old jar apparently. That looks old. It's thin and clearly separated. There was some dust in there. But this is a mandarin orange miso crunch. This actually looks kind of good.
[00:24:18] Tara Lindley: I mean, look, for Heinz, you don't buy Heinz products when you're like, man, I'm feeling adventurous and I want something new, right? That looks like formaldehyde. Yeah. Embalming fluid? Is there Like Air eyeball in there? There is an eyeball in there, yeah.
[00:24:30] Ray Latif: They should have consulted you, John. Get that out of here. Oh gosh, what is this? Oh, oh dear. Yeah, this expired in September of 2022.
[00:24:41] High West: Wow, you're really hoarding.
[00:24:45] Tara Lindley: Reason number 500 to not New Product directly to Ray's house.
[00:24:52] Ray Latif: I just told you, it doesn't come directly to my house. I'm just saying. Okay. So sad. Well, I enjoyed that spirited debate. It was riveting. I'm sure our listeners did as well.
[00:25:03] New Product: And what got lost in the... In the shuffle there is a Jalaluya.
[00:25:07] Tara Lindley: Yeah, I'm going to try this jalapeno chili crisp, This Little little dash here that they sent us. Well, no, it's a sample that you got to show.
[00:25:14] Ray Latif: I brought that back from New York City. Great. Thank you.
[00:25:16] John Craven: In my backpack.
[00:25:18] Ray Latif: Spilled all over my backpack. No, it didn't. No, it didn't. Jalaluya. Yes, I mispronounced that several times. All right. I would love to pour some of this chili crisp all over a bowl of Like Air. Like Air is a maker of puff corn.
[00:25:32] Tara Lindley: Like Air's been on the podcast a million times because they send us product every single time they have a new flavor, which appears to be like once a month, which is cool. I mean, yeah.
[00:25:42] High West: And they're all pretty tasty too.
[00:25:43] Tara Lindley: Yeah. You're sending us quality stuff with a new flavor like every month. Thank you.
[00:25:49] Ray Latif: And this flavor in particular is pretty damn amazing. This is their new Spicy Ranch. And I had some the other day. It is exactly as advertised. Let's crack it open. I want to try this one. It's ranch flavor with a little bit of heat. And it is that very light snack that you've, you know, you can finish this bag and feel totally fine afterwards, which is great. 80 calories per bag, non-GMO corn, gluten-free, nut-free. I'm just talking so they don't have to hand this over to John. I'm just kidding. Who's this dude on the front, I don't know why that's um there's this guy oops on the front of the bag What does This Little badge say it says are you kidding me cooking with Daryl so apparently this guy?
[00:26:32] Tara Lindley: No he's Like Air tick tocker he does a lot of cooking on a what do you call it a ball a It used to be a Blackstone grill. It's like one of these flat top grills. It's like dad making food on his grill.
[00:26:46] Ray Latif: He definitely looks Like Air dad who makes food on a grill.
[00:26:49] Tara Lindley: I was going to say he looks Like Air guy least likely to be in a spicy food.
[00:26:55] Ray Latif: Sorry, Darryl. He also looks Like Air guy who you wouldn't expect to see on TikTok, but very cool. Like Air, you guys are the best. As I've said this a number of times, this might be the best new snack brand I've seen in a long time. They really do everything top-notch, and yeah, we gotta get them on the show. Gotta get them on the show soon.
[00:27:14] Tara Lindley: We'll say our feedback for Like Air. Definitely dig the savory flavors more than the sweet. The churro thing was pretty good, but keep doing this. You can have your own bag if you like.
[00:27:28] High West: I eat a full bag and it's like you said, you don't feel like you ate anything.
[00:27:33] Ray Latif: It's the best late night snack.
[00:27:36] High West: Zero guilt.
[00:27:37] Ray Latif: If you're Like Air need something at 10 p.m., and you really shouldn't be at 10 p.m., but anyway, if you need something very, very easy, eat 80 calories.
[00:27:45] Tara Lindley: When you're passing out in the Uber on the way back from the chow? I've never done that, ever in my life.
[00:27:50] New Product: There's definitely a place for the sweet, Just The, yeah, John's right, the savory.
[00:27:54] Ray Latif: This is really good.
[00:27:55] New Product: Spicy.
[00:27:56] Ray Latif: Why would I have a Lycair bag of Lycair in an Uber on my way back from the show?
[00:28:01] Tara Lindley: I don't know, I just picture you, you're in your blazer, remarking how tight the Hugo Boss is looking, then you reach in the pocket and there's just Lycair in there.
[00:28:09] New Product: Just a Lycair, and then you've got cheese all over the front of you.
[00:28:12] Tara Lindley: Never, never, never, never, never. For the record, you left Stern behind, he's fully passed out on the ground.
[00:28:19] New Product: Last week I brought a beverage called Plift onto the show. Have you had Plift yet? It's a new THC beverage. How's it spelled? P-L-I-F-T. They have Plift and they have Plift Plus. And Plift is like four milligrams and it's really nice and funky. They've got, they lean into the terpenes, but then they, you know, you have juicy grapefruit, tart lime, crisp ginger. I really like the flavor of those. So yeah, shout out to Plift. I would have brought it on the show, but I think we drank it all.
[00:28:46] High West: What's the difference between Plyft and Plyft Plus?
[00:28:48] New Product: Plyft Plus is a smaller can with more THC, so Plyft is four milligrams, 12 ounce can, and then the smaller can is a 10 milligram. And those are tasty, too. I don't remember all the flavors, though. Maybe they'll send us some more so we can enjoy it.
[00:29:03] Ray Latif: Just say Plyft one more time.
[00:29:04] New Product: Plyft, Plyft, Plyft. There you go. It's really tasty. I also have a Uh, we've gotten a bunch of good cannabis in lately, so I'm going to try some here. We got, uh... Cannabis beverages, that is. Right. Not the ganja. Specialty squa... Send that too. Uh, this is Squire's Specialty Elixirs. This is a brand that's really tasty too. They, they basically have this as a hydration play. THC infused seltzer. Five milligrams of THC, 10 of CBD. Going in for a taste here. What is the name of this brand? This is Mandarin Mango. It's Squire's. Squire's. Yeah. Nice. Not to be confused with Fender. Is it Billy's brand?
[00:29:41] Ray Latif: Nobody got that.
[00:29:41] New Product: Billy's Choir? That's funny. Okay. I went for a Fender joke that you didn't get too. That's really tasty too. I mean, cannabis beverages are really tasting good lately.
[00:29:50] Ray Latif: Guy, you shouldn't be drinking so much of this in the early morning.
[00:29:52] New Product: I also have, this one's interesting because it has a lot of different cannabinoids in it. This one's called Good Mellow. Good Mellow. And Good Mellow is 5-THC, 2.5 CBD which usually it's in it more usually more CBD than THC Jackie. That's what I usually yeah But this one also has a milligram of THC V and a milligram of CBG, which I've been told the G is for giggle
[00:30:15] High West: They do say the more cannabinoids you consume, the more well-rounded high that you get.
[00:30:21] New Product: Gotcha. This one also has ashwagandha. It's like, there's a lot going on in Good Mellow, but it is very tasty. And I'm tempted to drink the whole thing, but I don't want to be a...
[00:30:30] Ray Latif: I don't want to be wackier than usual. You have many meetings for the rest of the day. I'll just microdose.
[00:30:35] New Product: It's really tasty.
[00:30:36] Tara Lindley: I'm like, what is even going on?
[00:30:39] New Product: Three really great tasting cannababs. Thanks for sending those along.
[00:30:43] Tara Lindley: I was like, this view from this side of the table, where I've got Ray's Chili Crisp Pile, Episode of Hoarders Chili Crisp Pile, and then Mike just pounding THC drinks. I just sip them.
[00:30:56] Ray Latif: That was a typical episode of Taste Radio. In a vintage Taste Radio shirt. In a vintage Taste Radio shirt. It's going to melt and start spinning. That is an epic, epic vintage Taste Radio shirt. I mean, it looks like we had a podcast going on in like 1974. This is Rev. 1. I know, this has been washed an awful lot.
[00:31:11] New Product: It's nice and soft.
[00:31:15] Ray Latif: Alright, let's get to our featured interview for this episode. That's with Tara Lindley, who is the Director of Sensory QA and New Product Development at High West Distillery. Utah's first legal distillery since 1870, High West crafts distinctive whiskeys that represent the culture and terrain of the American West. Known for its award-winning portfolio, High West is especially celebrated for its limited edition releases like The Noble Share, High Country American Single Malt, a Midwinter Night's Dram, and Boo Rye. In the following interview, Tara talks about how HighWest balances innovation with market demand in a competitive and evolving spirits landscape and the collaborative relationship between product development and marketing. She also discusses how consumer insights shape new releases and why strategic storytelling and education are essential for building loyalty, especially among younger, more selective drinkers. Hey folks, it's Ray with Taste Radio. Bright News, I'm honored to be sitting down with Tara Lindley of High West Distillery. Tara, great to see you.
[00:32:25] Jacqui Brugliera: Hi, great to see you too. Thanks for having me.
[00:32:28] Ray Latif: I didn't mention your title.
[00:32:29] Jacqui Brugliera: My title is Director of Sensory and New Product Development.
[00:32:33] Ray Latif: Okay, so you have an important role at High West, one that you've been cultivating for some time now. How'd you get into the world of whiskey and then how'd you get into High West specifically?
[00:32:42] Jacqui Brugliera: Sure. So I actually started off in the wine industry and, you know, it was never quite on my radar to make the jump over to whiskey, but it started with wanting to move from Napa Valley into a more mountainous area. And while I was looking for things to do in the park city, when I was coming out to visit and check it out, I came across this job posting for High West and thought it sounded amazing. So I thought, okay, I'll put my name in the hat, see what happens. And I had the experience of doing, you know, analytical chemistry, wine sensory, you know, different wine analysis. And, you know, thought there was some overlap there, but didn't know if that would, you know, how that would transfer from one industry to another. And the day after I got back from Park City, our master distiller, Brendan Coyle, called me up and interviewed me, invited me out to meet the team. And, you know, from there, when I started in 2016, I was spending a lot of time looking at whiskey samples and just educating myself and learning how I would use different words to describe sensory according to whiskey. So, you know, whiskey and wine have different lexicons. There's some overlap, some that are very unique, but starting to learn how I perceived whiskey and how I described whiskey. And so that's where it all started. And so that took me, I would say about a year until I felt more confident with my whiskey sensory. And you know, from there, I still believe in lifelong learning and I'm always developing that sensory palette and that lexicon and that vocabulary in my head. And so, you know, I would never say that I'm an expert because I think there's always more to learn and, you know, ways to get better.
[00:34:19] Ray Latif: I often talk to entrepreneurs about New Product development and a lot of times, especially with early stage entrepreneurs, it's based on their own personal preferences for taste, flavor, et cetera. And then down the line, they start to do focus groups, surveys, find out about what their consumers are looking for, find out what people want in New Product. How much does the consumer palette play into New Product development for HighWest?
[00:34:47] Jacqui Brugliera: So I think there is a balance there. And we work with our brand and marketing team a lot to understand what might be desired. But HighWest has always been very focused on innovation as well. And that's something that is very true to our backbone. And we feel confident in creating new releases that are innovative and interesting and fun. fun to work there on a sensor level. So I think it's a little bit too pronged. Sometimes we can get prompts from our brand and marketing team, and then my team and my colleagues, we take that to a place where we think that it's a really special place to be.
[00:35:29] Ray Latif: To go a bit deeper, I think sometimes marketing teams and innovation teams can kind of be at odds sometimes. Sometimes the marketing team is saying, well, our customer wants this. And the innovation team might say, well, we want to push the envelope a little bit. And, you know, we're helping the customer understand what they want more than what they know. I guess when it does come to a head like that, or I should ask, does it ever come to a head like that?
[00:35:54] Jacqui Brugliera: You know, I haven't experienced many situations where it's come to a head quite like that. Our team here across, you know, blending and distilling and sensory, we have a very proven track record. And I think our brand and marketing team has the utmost confidence in us that we can take, you know, a light suggestion of a prompt. If that's the minimum that they give us, we can take that somewhere really special with our own creativity and innovation. And I can't think of any situations off the top of my head where they didn't love something that we did. For example, we Just The last year released The Noble Share, which is a rye blend that was finished in tequila barrels. And that was the only prompt that we got was to finish something in tequila barrels from Casanova, Marquez and Casanova barrels. And so we made the determination that that's going to be a rye blend because it shows really nicely with the agave character. We took that and we even brought in a little bit of Ambarana barrels for some finishing as well to derive some cinnamon stick characters. So we have this really beautiful and complex nuanced flavor profile. So that's a place where, you know, the only prompt that we got was something finishing tequila barrels in these Casanova barrels, but we went the extra mile to take that innovation to, okay, here's what the rye blend looks like. It contains High West rye as well. And we're going to use some Ambarana barrels to finish and derive more flavor impact. And that one was very well received. In fact, that's probably my favorite whiskey that we've ever done.
[00:37:25] Ray Latif: How do you test or prototype or pilot New Product? Is it something where you do have focus groups, where you do have a core set of consumers, perhaps industry colleagues that you can share a potential New Product with?
[00:37:38] Jacqui Brugliera: So everything here High West is vetted through our internal sensory panel. And a lot of times, some of these things come right out of our VIP single barrel program, where we're finishing whiskey or a certain blend in a different type of finishing barrel. And that can give us, you know, the inspiration to do something on a larger scale. For example, that's where Midwinter Night's Dram came from. And that's another reason that we knew that the Encore was going to taste great on its own with Just The white port finish because we had trialed that in our single barrel program. And so while that has been a good opportunity, sometimes we also just look at some other blends or we're always looking at our inventory through Sensory to understand what we're working with and thinking about different ways that we could use it or blend it or finish it. So the single barrel program is what kind of inspires me a lot. We had done some tequila finishes in the past as well. So I don't know, I enjoy that from a finishing perspective, but I like to get creative and do things other than more of the common finishes.
[00:38:43] Ray Latif: Has there been a time when something that you have loved and that you have been invested in from a creative standpoint hasn't really panned Just The way that you thought it might? And what were some of the learning experiences, if that ever occurred, what were some of the learnings from that experience?
[00:39:01] Jacqui Brugliera: That's a great question. you know, people always ask me what my favorite whiskey is. And while I do have things that I prefer New Product I'm very proud of that we produced here at High West, I will almost always tell them that my favorite thing is what we're working on at that time. And so, you know, I get so invested in whatever we're doing. And, you know, one of the things that has become important to me over time, as we see our own High West whiskey mature and come of age and is something that we can use in our blends and also create some of our own standalone products. For example, Blot On Bond, which has been very well received, and then our High Country Single Malt. I would love to see the industry get to a place where High Country Single Malt is in higher demand because we make an absolutely beautiful, stunning one. And, you know, Bright News we're pulling that one back to distillery only so that we have something special for those people who come to visit us at High West. But that was one that I was very proud to be a part of, you know, releasing into the world on a national release for the first time, you know, with my colleague, Isaac Winter, the director of distilling and Brendan Coyle, our master distiller. We were all so proud of that. And I would love to see that become a larger scale product in the future.
[00:40:19] Ray Latif: But what you're saying is the demand wasn't there as much as you thought it might be.
[00:40:25] Jacqui Brugliera: I would argue that that kind of leans more industry wide. And as the definition for single mall has been more recently defined by TTB, I just think there was a lot of uncertainty. And I think there's an element of consumer education that still needs to happen over time. And so I think that with time we'll get there and we'll still have some beautiful single mall when we are there.
[00:40:48] Ray Latif: And I think that's a great segue because consumer education is such an important part of getting people aware of and interested in New Product and Just The HiWest brand as a whole. Certainly, it's becoming even more important as all we hear about is legal drinking age consumers are falling by the wayside. They're not consuming as much alcohol. They're not as interested in whiskey or any other spirit for that matter. So when you're thinking about your role in the future of High West, how does consumer education play into your process and your strategy, specifically as it relates to getting people up to speed, getting them interested, younger consumers, that is?
[00:41:34] Jacqui Brugliera: Even as we see changes in the industry and demand, my role in consumer education allows me to have that one-on-one, face-to-face interaction with our consumers. And I meet so many people when I go into market or when I help host one of our dinners at our Wanship Distillery, who absolutely still love what we do. and are following our New Product and in line for our new releases. And so I think that even though you see the statistics of, you know, people aren't drinking as much, I would argue that this is largely cyclical and that I have also read statistics that while people might be drinking less alcohol, the number of individuals consuming alcohol or trying alcohol, you know, or experimenting with different types of alcohol is actually increased. And so I would argue that Yes, based on a lot of things, we do see some softening across the business at this time, across all the whiskey industries is what I'm alluding to. However, I still see so much excitement from those consumers I get to meet face to face.
[00:42:41] Ray Latif: Well, one thing I feel like that's been consistent throughout this narrative of people drinking less or younger consumers drinking less is that people are drinking more premium. Certainly High West represents premium, perhaps even some might call it a super premium brand. I think when you start out as a consumer of alcohol, you start out with something that's I would guess less than premium, perhaps not that great in terms of flavor and you graduate to something that's better. And I think sometimes getting to that point has a lot to do with the story of the brand, perhaps even the mythology of the brand, something Like Air Bow Rye where it's not necessarily the most intuitive thing to think about a bourbon and rye blend in the same bottle. How do you go from telling a story about sensory notes and perhaps the analytics of creating New Product to something that's a bit more in the vibe or the vein of storytelling?
[00:43:41] Jacqui Brugliera: So some of the relationships I like to highlight when I'm meeting consumers and telling them about what we do. First of all, I was talking about sometimes the history of where an idea came from or how our team goes about working together to create these blends. Because really, we have a whole team that comes in, an internal team. and we do sensory and we make decisions based upon how our team, the majority sways. And so a lot of it is just sharing, you know, part of that process and the people part of it too, because we're all people. We come with our ideas and our own perspectives. And one of the things I love to share about sensory is that, you know, everything is different for all of us. We're all so unique. We have a thousand genes that code for the way that we interpret sensory in our brains. And when I smell, you know, a dark chocolate note in our campfire, I might tell you that's there, but maybe you smell something different. You know, maybe that's more of a charred oak character for you. And so the thing is everyone perceives things so differently. And I like to focus on that. And that brings in a lot of interest into how unique each of our experiences is as we go through our sensory and developing our products.
[00:44:53] Ray Latif: Yeah, I've done my share of wine and whiskey and beer tastings. And I hear from a lot of folks that what you're experiencing, what you smell, what you taste is great. It's fine. You know, there's no real wrong answers in that process. At the same time, I think it perhaps might make it easier for people to appreciate something if they hear what you're supposed to taste, what you're supposed to smell from, I'm going to use that word again, an expert. So on the one hand, you might have this approach where you're saying, yes, enjoy what you want, taste what you want. On the other hand, it really does help differentiate your brand and your products from others. If you have specific notes that you can share, if you can have, if you have a specific narrative that you can share about your brand. So if you come across that, I mean, how do you walk that line? How do you balance those two pressures at the same time?
[00:45:49] Jacqui Brugliera: Sure. So two examples. You know, when we're blending our High West bourbon, there is a green apple note that I am very specifically looking for at the end of the mid palette. And if that note is not there for me, I know that the blend isn't right. And so the blend isn't there until that's there. And you might not taste the green apple. But I know that it needs to be there for the blend to be right. And so that's one of my triggers to say, okay, we've made this blend right. We're in spec with where this blend needs to be. With Campfire, it's the dark chocolate note right at the end of the mid palette, beginning of the finish that I look for. And Like Air said, if someone doesn't get that, that's okay. But when I'm doing sensory and I'm making sure that our products are consistent, that's what I need to see is there so that I know that we're in line with our flavor profile. And I absolutely share the attributes that I perceive off of our products. And these are the things that I get, which I agree that can be helpful for people to kind of have that help. But I also don't want people to think that they have to smell something. If they don't smell it and they don't taste it, that they must not be doing it right. And so there is that fine line of these are the things that I get out of it. And I'm always curious to hear what everyone else gets out of it when they smell and taste it too.
[00:47:01] Ray Latif: I think one other part of High West that's really interesting to me, and perhaps you've heard this before, is that you're based in Utah, which is not necessarily the most intuitive place to open and operate a distillery. How much does the state, how much does Utah itself play into the development of your products and the story that you share with consumers?
[00:47:21] Jacqui Brugliera: So one of the most notable things about High West is that we were the first distillery in Utah since Prohibition. And our founder, Dave Perkins, did a lot to work with the lawmakers and policymakers here in the state to kind of open that door again so that we could have whiskey here. Because the Mormons were making whiskey back in the 1800s. They were making wheat note whiskey. So there is a historical thread there that ties us back to Utah. pre-prohibition even. So that's one of the elements. Additionally, with Utah being here in the mountains, the mountainous West, that's something that we think of when we develop our flavor profiles as well. All of the flavor profiles that we have made here at High West have very assertive and bold flavor profiles. My favorites are usually the rye whiskeys because I love that assertive rye spice. And for me, that assertive flavor profile just very well aligns with that mountainous West. terrain that we have here. It's rough, it's rugged, it's assertive, it's bold, it's in your face, and that's what it kind of feels like living here in Utah and going up on some of those mountains that can be really steep sometimes. So I feel that we've done a good job to align our flavor profiles with our area and where we come from.
[00:48:37] Ray Latif: Tara, thank you so much for taking the time to sit down with me. I really appreciate our conversation, and hopefully I can meet you in person at one of your dinners, especially if you're ever coming to the Boston area. I'd love to be a part of it.
[00:48:50] Jacqui Brugliera: Thank you so much. I'd love to meet you as well. You're always welcome out here to visit us and tour our distillery or attend one of our dinners.
[00:48:57] Ray Latif: Thanks again, Tara.
[00:48:59] Jacqui Brugliera: Thank you so much.
[00:49:02] Ray Latif: That brings us to the end of this episode of Taste Radio. Thank you so much for listening. Taste Radio is a production of BevNET.com, Incorporated. Our audio engineer for Taste Radio is Joe Cracci. Our technical director is Joshua Pratt, and our video editor is Ryan Galang. Our social marketing manager is Amanda Smerlinski, and our designer is Amanda Huang. Just a reminder, if you like what you hear on Taste Radio, please share the podcast with friends and colleagues. And of course, we would love it if you could review us on the Apple Podcasts app or your listening platform of choice. Check us out on Instagram. Our handle is BevNetTasteRadio. As always, for questions, comments, ideas for future podcasts, please send us an email to ask at Taste Radio.com. On behalf of the entire Taste Radio team, thank you for listening, and we'll talk to you next time.
[00:49:52] John Craven: you
