[00:00:03] Ray Latif: Hey, this is Ray Latif, you're listening to the BevNET Podcast. Once again, I'm here with John Craven, Jon Landis. We're at the conference room or in the conference room at BevNET headquarters in Watertown. I think it's a recording studio at this point, right? Is this a recording studio?
[00:00:16] John Craven: I don't know. We're going to call it that. I feel like we need a lot more equipment for a big recording studio. And an entourage, but we'll work on that.
[00:00:23] Ray Latif: We could like have people lining up against the wall and like the like thugs. Okay.
[00:00:28] Jon Landis: I wasn't going to go there, but you, you need, you need the, like the really expensive, big, like leather rolling chair that they sit at that command console. And John needs that. I like that.
[00:00:38] Ray Latif: Where someone like two people push you in and then you stand behind you and like with, with baseball bats, maybe not baseball bats. Already this podcast has gone haywire. If you're still listening, thank you so much. We have a lot to talk about today. We recently welcomed a guest to the podcast, Grant Prentice, who works with FoodMinds. He is a VP of strategic insights at FoodMinds, which consults with food and beverage companies on a range of ways they can enhance and market their products.
[00:01:10] Jon Landis: Well, I mean, the Can Manufacturers Institute is a trade organization that promotes the usage of cans. Correct. And they did a bunch of research for them to find out what the benefits of cans are definitively. And they spent a lot of money and time to figure it out.
[00:01:24] John Craven: Well, I think that the phrase he used to describe it was like the brain's, you know, sensory connection to some of these package types. Obviously, that's like big company, big money stuff that part of why it was interesting to talk to him is just that it's a perspective that you kind of don't really get as an entrepreneur, right? I mean, no one's out there doing studies like that. You're kind of like picking a can, I don't know, because it looks cool or your co-packer has some sort of package format that's readily available. It's never like you know, because you've studied the multisensory aspect of your package type, right? So this is someone that has and I think it's, you know, some pretty neat stuff.
[00:02:07] Ray Latif: It was really interesting. And, you know, it's a good point, John Craven, about sort of working with a package that has already been defined for you via the category that you play in or via your co-packer. Energy drinks, commonly served and commonly sold in cans, soft drinks, CSTs, things like that. But there's been a big evolution, as there has been an evolution in the beverage industry of what people are drinking, there's also been an evolution of which packages and package formats these liquids are held in. Cold brew coffee, we're seeing a real rapid change in the way that coffee has traditionally been sold from bottles to now cans.
[00:02:46] Jon Landis: Your comment reminded me when I was talking to the Nestle folks at Naxx, where they talked about how they spent all this time and money researching what the best diameter would be for the width of the lid of the bottle that you would drink from. And again, it's the type of thing that only these large companies are going to have the resources to pull it off. And when they come up with their findings, it almost sounds intuitive and like a no-brainer type of thing.
[00:03:13] John Craven: It's interesting because I think to use both of these cases, I mean, you have a very sort of science-based approach to this that is studying something that in a lot of cases is subconscious. I mean, some of what Grant talks about when we play the interview is how package types impact one's perception of sweetness, for example, right? And now that might be completely true and something that, you know, no one can dispute, I don't know, or things like, you know, your bottle size opening that impacts airflow and how the liquid goes in your mouth, but it doesn't address the other part of it, which is what we more often talk about, which are things like the brand and its connection to the consumer. So I think, again, this is just, you know, to preface the interview that we're about to play, It's something that speaks to one aspect. And again, I think it's a pretty unique, different, you know, approach, but it's not one that should be taken as like the only piece of the puzzle.
[00:04:10] Ray Latif: Right. Indeed. Indeed. All right. So without further ado, here's the interview. We're joined today by Grant Prentice. Grant Prentice is the Senior Vice President of Strategic Insights for FoodMinds. FoodMinds is a food, nutrition, communications, and consulting company. That sounds like kind of a corporate line, Grant. What's the, in layman's terms, what does FoodMinds do?
[00:04:31] Grant Prentice: Foodbinds is a company that helps, at the heart of it all, helps its clients tell a better story. So we adopt a very strategic approach to our relationships with our clients and are always looking for new science, maybe even existing science that hasn't been discovered or articulated the right way to help our clients tell a more compelling, more differentiating, more relevant story. And we work with all different sorts of people in the food industry. Sometimes it's commodity groups, sometimes it's branded food companies, and then other times it's packaging companies, much like the work that we've been doing with the Can Manufacturers Institute on the Open Up to Cannes program. sort of helping them take existing science and knowledge and then new science, new research that we've been doing and investing in to understand what is the role of packaging in the experience that the consumer has with a beverage or with a food and specifically how do cans impact people's perceptions of beverages and what sorts of things do they facilitate.
[00:05:49] Ray Latif: And this is all done through scientific analysis, some case studies, I'm assuming, some surveys. How do you kind of go about putting together the research that you do on behalf of your clients? Is it really deep in the sort of field of consumer analysis and sensory, what's the word I'm looking for, John?
[00:06:12] Grant Prentice: I think you were close.
[00:06:16] John Craven: I was just waiting to see how that would play out.
[00:06:20] Grant Prentice: No, that's a good question. We actually draw on multiple sources. So we will do some of our own consumer research that's designed to address a specific question, the performance of beverages in cans. We also look at secondary sources. So there are a lot of peer-reviewed journals, actually, in the packaging space, and also in food processing. and packaging and how packaging can protect or in some cases maybe doesn't protect the beverage that's inside it. So a number of different types of resources that we draw.
[00:07:02] John Craven: And do you guys look at like the actual food that's going into the container from the perspective of things like, you know, say the color of the liquid or again, the attributes like of the actual product or is it just related to the packaging?
[00:07:18] Grant Prentice: I think that most of the work that we've done for the Open Up to Cans program focuses on really the interaction between the beverage and the fluid that's inside the packaging. So understanding how packaging can protect a craft beverage, a juice, maybe even a dairy beverage from the effects of both light and oxygen, which tend to degrade the quality of the beverage in a number of different ways. And then also in the way that the packaging sort of affects people's perceptions and experiences with the product.
[00:07:59] Ray Latif: So, you know, you've mentioned your work with CMI a few times, and your research is based on this idea that the packaging itself is going to affect the sensory perceptions of food or beverage. Why did your theory kind of lead to that research?
[00:08:15] Grant Prentice: Yeah, that's a really good question. I think that stepping back away from packaging, specifically cans, stepping kind of all the way back and just looking at the way that people experience food and beverages, there are a lot of different things that affect the way a consumer experiences the taste or the enjoyment of a beverage. And it starts with their expectation. They don't even have to be anywhere near the package or the product, but they have a little sort of packet of knowledge or experience in their head about what a tea, a beer, a water, a coffee should taste like. And that expectation is sort of everything that they consume is sort of evaluated against that. And so that's sort of the first sort of inner circle, if you will, of the experience that people have and how they evaluate what they're tasting. And then beyond that are the signals that they get from the packaging of the product before they taste it. So there's a lot of sensory cues that are delivered visually. Auditory noises have an effect. I think that's a really good question. through their own previous sort of experiences, through their ears, the way that they interact with the package on a tactile level. All those things send signals to people about the food or the beverage that they consume.
[00:10:01] Jon Landis: I feel like one of the things that we talk about a lot is the graphic design of the packaging itself, and you seem to think that there's a lot more than simply the design of the can or the bottle, but it's something that we typically spend a lot of time talking about, and we see a lot of entrepreneurs, you know, who go way off in the functional side and leave design behind, and there's really no When you look at a functional product, sometimes there's no way of saying, what is this thing even going to taste like? But you're saying that there's even like two or three layers beyond just the design of the brand itself on the can as to what the perception of what the experience will be like.
[00:10:44] Grant Prentice: That's absolutely right. You know, just in the work that we've done in looking at canned packaging, canned beverage packaging and the way that it affects people's perceptions of the beverage and really the drinking experience. I think sometimes that's product developers or innovators get sort of caught up maybe in the fluid itself. And obviously that's critically important. There has to be something there. It has to be a product that people enjoy. But I think if people realize the importance of all of those other layers around that in reinforcing or protecting the characteristics of the beverage, those sorts of things are really important to take into consideration as you design your package. And there's actually five different signals that are elements of the experience that people have specifically, with a canned beverage that affects the way they experience that and their perceptions of that. A tactile signal in terms of the way the beverage can feels. It's cold, it's smooth. Metal has a greater transmission of cold than glass. Glass does. Glass is a better insulator, as plastic is. Cold sort of transmits that refreshment kind of signal a little bit more effectively and efficiently than other packaging forms. There's also kind of an aromatic signal that's delivered when a can is opened. It tends to be a little bit more pronounced than maybe other packaging because of the way most beverages are pressurized. or carbonated in some way. And there's very little headspace, characteristically, in a can. So some of that fluid is sort of exposed modest, sometimes more pronounced, but that aromatic burst that comes from a can can send a signal. That opening of the can has an auditory aspect as well. There's sort of a very pronounced cracking of a can, particularly where it's a carbonated beverage, and that sort of signals the initiation of that transformation experience. That's a very obvious piece and there's a lot of real estate can, we like to say it's sort of a floor to ceiling 360 degree palette that the innovator can kind of use to communicate what's different about the beverage, help it stand out on the shelf and create the right kinds of expectations. And I think that the last area is, or the last sort of signal or sort of more of a secondary value that consumers have is the whole notion about sustainability. And I know in the organic and natural space, that is a, food attribute, it's also a packaging attribute that's probably a little bit more important than your traditional or standard beverage category. Aluminum cans sort of have a well-established kind of identity or perception of being very sustainable, and that plays a role in people sort of thinking and evaluating about different beverage choices.
[00:13:56] Ray Latif: I definitely want to go back to a couple of things that you mentioned about the actual sensory cues, not just of the canned package itself, but of some of the colors, the words, and the size of some of these packages that can alter the taste, the flavor, the aroma of a beverage. You know, when we were talking about this beforehand, you mentioned that, you know, the color white has a very specific sensory cue. So in certain things, like certain ways that you say a word or say a letter, can you kind of expound on that a little bit? It's good to know that you're paying attention. I have to. I know it's relatively early in the morning here, but we've got to stay on top of things. It's my third cup of coffee, by the way.
[00:14:44] Grant Prentice: We talked about that at DeafNet Live. That's exactly right.
[00:14:46] Ray Latif: We did, yes.
[00:14:48] Grant Prentice: Which was a great conference, by the way. Thank you very much. Yeah, as we talked about there, this is what's most fascinating about it, I think, kind of shows that there actually is a sensory implication or a conclusion that people come to just based on the way the packaging looks and the packaging feels. There's been research done that shows that if you take a strawberry movie juice, for example, and you put it in a white bowl relative to a black colored bowl or a dark colored bowl, the product that's in the white bowl, even though it's exactly the same formulation, can be up to 10% sweeter, just in terms of the way people perceive it. Again, if you go to the yogurt aisle, most of the packaging there those even though it's exactly the same in its consistency. And even coffee, you know, coffee is perceived as having a stronger, sort of more intense and less sweet taste profile when it's served in a white cup or a white mug relative to a black mug or a darker color. And again, most of the packaging that Starbucks and a lot of other competitive coffee shops use is predominantly white. And even when they change out for a seasonal package like they are at the moment, the red cups for the holiday season, that predominantly very kind of clean white looking lid is put on every cup that's going out to go. So that color plays an important role there. And sound even has an effect in the way people perceive foods and fragrances, if you taste, there's been science done that looks at toffee, if that bittersweet toffee is consumed in the presence of sort of a low pitch music or sounds, it's perceived as being more bitter. And if you have a name of a product that has a B, starts with the letter B, that's perceived as being more sweet than a hard sounding letter, such as the letter K. And even sort of the shape of chocolate round shapes are perceived as being more sweet than square or block shapes. Again, there's sort of scientific data out there that says that you can develop your core product to have a taste profile, and then you can kind of fine-tune that depending on the shape, the characteristic of the package, the way that it's served, the color of the packaging that you use. So again, obviously you've got to get the product right, but then you have to think about of that product experience do you want to accentuate or maybe tone down a little bit what needs to be moderated and the package that you select and the way that's designed can have an impact on that.
[00:18:30] Ray Latif: So what I'm hearing is that there are ways to make a product taste sweeter or less sweet, or even alter the formulation, perhaps including less sugar or more sugar, depending on certain aspects of the packaging. Is that accurate? Is that proven? Yeah.
[00:18:47] Grant Prentice: That's absolutely accurate. For example, if you're a beverage manufacturer and you're looking to cut back the level of sugar that's still in your product, maybe bring down the calories, and we're looking to preserve or accentuate the sweetness taste profile, you should be looking at the way you're packaging either or some other colors or configurations of the packaging can be used to enhance the sweetness level so that as you bring your sugar level down, maybe that perceived sweetness can stay at parity. There is a big effect on the way people perceive taste based on the colors of packaging or the design of the package, the weight of the package.
[00:19:40] John Craven: Well, I mean, sweetness seems like a fairly straightforward and simple dimension of a beverage product in kind of the grand scheme of beverages. What about just, I guess, looking at a lot of the products that are kind of coming to market now that are offering some sort of, say, functionality. Are there things that sort of fit into this that might make functionality seem more credible? You know, I think that's something that we often kind of look at. functional beverages, and they're sort of trying to do it in just graphic design or wording, things like, I don't know, doctor developed or whatever that, again, are pretty, they don't really take into account this whole multi-sensory component. Do you have any sort of opinion on that end of things?
[00:20:24] Grant Prentice: You know, that's a really good question, and we have not done a great deal of work there, although that's an interesting area of exploration. I will say one thing, I know that, and this is a function of the way the category has developed, but in energy drinks, cans have been used as sort of a predominant package, and particularly a smaller, sort of slim-sized can. And just in qualitative work that we've done with people who are frequent consumers of those sorts of beverages, that sort of part of the experience accentuates people's sense that this thing is changing the way they feel, changing the way they sort of look at the day, if you will, that it's sort of this concentrated sort of form of revitalization or energy that they're consuming so the the packaging there I think plays a role in Accentuating that kind of experience that people have with the product The other things that you were talking about medicinal sorts of perceptions or health benefit perceptions I would imagine could be greatly accentuated by packaging design and color done a lot of work there, but just given the work that's been done and looking at taste and how taste is impacted, I think that sort of perceived functionality is definitely something that people should be looking at and thinking about.
[00:21:56] Jon Landis: We've talked about a lot of different things here, but one thing that we haven't really touched upon that I think about now, I think first of all, when we talk about cans, you know, they only really work with certain beverage types. You're not going to get a cold press juice in a can, but I've always viewed cans as like a commoditized type of a packaging, right? I mean, it's Coca-Cola. It's like Goya juices and whatnot. So, you know, there have been brands out there that have been able to elevate that and premiumize cans. Can you talk to that aspect a little bit? I mean, we see it in craft beer where there are some brands coming out that have really expensive products in cans. We've seen La Cologne with like a custom can lid. How has the market and the entrepreneurs out there that To be frank, cans are quite cheap, so someone who's able to take a premium product and put it in a cheaper packaging and still have a premium positioning with it is a very positive competitive advantage for a brand. So how does that happen? How are you able to elevate packaging to that level?
[00:23:04] Grant Prentice: Those are excellent points. In fact, that was the inception of the work that we did in the Open Up to Cans program. was actually based on early signals from the marketplace. And there was, I think, considerable surprise at the way the craft beer industry was embracing cans. And sort of in talking to that, not only those innovators and those brewers, but also the consumer, There are a number of different benefits that they reaped from that that actually helped reinforce their premium quality. I think the first is actually protecting the physical chemistry of the product. It's a fairly complicated brew in most cases. It involves usually in the craft segment a lot of hops, different types of hops. Heavily hopped beers are sort of more oxygen so that the can provides a better insulation. kind of sensitive formula that they have. I think the other thing that they've been able to do is through design and really maximizing the use of the real estate on the can, using that in a colorful way of distinguishing their identities that stands out on the shelf, or even in secondary packaging that they've used the full sort of So, I think there's some interesting benefits that they bring. in the sparkling water category, the leading sparkling water brand is La Croix. And that is sold predominantly in cans. And again, I think they've done a really nice job of making use of both the can package and also the secondary packaging around that to really help that brand stand out. And the other sort of basic thing about cans, which is important at point of sale, that can become a very visible entity within the store, which is important at point of sale. That's another thing that we've noticed with La Croix and maybe even some of the other Can Manufacturers as well. But even in the lemonade category, in sort of a non-traditional can design, Dust Cutter has done some The cone top, it almost looks like an old 1930s, 1920s beer can, sort of a cone top design that's in an aluminum format that helps them stand out. And I think they've given sort of that little twist in the design and the way that they execute the graphics on the package connotes quality, connotes something that's going to taste a little bit better, a little bit different maybe than some of those other lemonades that are out there. So we've seen, and then the Cologne example I think is a way of, again, they've done some interesting experimentation with the top of the can and also the pressurization of the fluid that sort of delivers that texturized experience. facilitated with that can packaging. So other interesting opportunities there to kind of marry the way the product's manufactured with the protective qualities of the package.
[00:26:46] Ray Latif: We only have a couple more minutes left, but I definitely wanted to touch on something about cans that feels slightly limiting, but maybe you can tell me otherwise, which is that there aren't a lot of custom shapes that you can create with the aluminum can package. And that sometimes can lead to not a lot of differentiation on shelf among different brands. So is there any innovation that's happening right now that you're recommending in terms of sort of custom can packages? Or for brands, you know, you have a strategy of, okay, you want to consider the color of your package, you want to consider how it entices or enhances visual cues about what's inside the package. So I guess my question is twofold. What are you guys recommending in terms of innovation on the custom format cans? And what are you doing to advise brands on how to differentiate among can packages that are of equal substance, I guess? And I'm specifically asking this because we see a lot of this in cold brew coffee. I mean, cold brew coffee is a segment of the coffee category that's exploding right now, but it feels like everything that we're seeing is very much the same or seeing a lot of the same stuff at least.
[00:27:55] Grant Prentice: Yeah, you know, a good point. There is a little bit of a misperception there that the aluminum will just, we won't call it a can, we'll just say the aluminum packaging is sort of constrained in terms of design. That's not necessarily the case. And of course, you have to take cost into account, packaging efficiency, your distribution develop their packaging strategy, but the aluminum format can be executed in everything from a bottle shape to something that's more to your standard can, which can be executed in a variety of different shapes and sizes. to something that's maybe sort of more of a squared off or angular kind of design. There's a number of different things that you can do with that package. Again, it depends on what a brand wants to do from a manufacturing and a packaging perspective. But, you know, there's opportunity there to look at radically different designs and have still the protective and other sense That's a discussion that can be had between the product developer and the innovator or the marketer and their packaging supplier. There's a lot of different opportunities there in terms of not only just the that package is probably going to cost. But again, that's a negotiable factor or element in that. To answer the second part of your question, I think that not even thinking about cans, but just thinking about packaging and the way What the beverage innovator needs the package to do? What does it need the package to do in order to be able to send the right signals to the consumer, protect the package, function within the distribution channels that they're looking at? What we encourage Brandt Gehrs or brand developers to do is to actually develop a packaging strategy brief. What do I want that package to do? or enhanced or maybe downplayed through the packaging that I select. Who's the consumer? What's the primary occasion or meat state that the beverage is going to be consumed in? What is the brand that I'm selling? What's the brand image that I'm creating or sustaining? And what's the liquid? What's the actual liquid that goes And then where am I putting that? What distribution channels is it operating in? And even all the way out to sort of the point of sale environment, how is it going to operate? Or how does it need to operate on the shelf relative to all of these other competitive choices? And all those factors should be taken into consideration as the brand owner is thinking about selecting their package or packages.
[00:31:16] Ray Latif: Or packages. Great, great. This has been great. And I feel like every time I talk to you, and it's only been a couple times now, but I feel like I'm learning so much that someone like me, who's been doing this for a little while, feels like they have a pretty good grasp on it. But then I hear from you, and I talk to you, and we're like, hey, there's still a lot to learn here.
[00:31:34] Jon Landis: Well, it goes to show that, you know, one thing I would like to say is a lot of this stuff, when you hear it kind of sounds like common sense, right? But it's because they did the science and they did the research and they took all the time to like actually, factually look at all these things and then spit it out. So it's pretty interesting.
[00:31:53] Ray Latif: Yeah, very true. One last thing I gotta ask you, we always ask our esteemed guests for their picks on what they're drinking these days. Any beverages that kind of stand out in your world right now that you're enjoying, possibly even at the moment? Put you on the spot, Greg.
[00:32:11] Grant Prentice: That's a great question. And you didn't even give me any warning that you were going to ask me that question.
[00:32:19] Ray Latif: No, no. This is the spontaneity of the BevNET podcast. Unpredictable is what we do.
[00:32:24] Grant Prentice: In my right hand at this very moment is the tail end of a cup of Starbucks coffee. So I have one of those every morning. That's a favorite beverage. a can of ballast point sculpin ale, which I have to say is probably my go-to beer at the moment, my go-to craft beer at the moment. I don't think you're alone in that regard.
[00:32:53] Ray Latif: What's that? I said, I don't think you're alone there.
[00:32:55] Grant Prentice: I think there's quite a few ballast point drinkers these days. It's not the most inexpensive. a great tasting product. But those are, those would be my, just in the last three or four days, those are my most frequently consumed beverages, other than maybe the occasional glass of water.
[00:33:15] Ray Latif: Coffee and beer. Hey, I like it. All right, great. Once again, thanks so much for joining us. This has been great. And I hope to hear from you and talk to you again soon.
[00:33:26] Grant Prentice: Absolutely. Thank you so much for this opportunity. Appreciate it.
[00:33:30] Ray Latif: Thanks again. Hey, that was a great interview. I really enjoyed listening to that or being a part of that.
[00:33:35] Jon Landis: It was interesting, I guess. It was very interesting again. And I think knowing that they've done all of this research in itself makes it interesting to me because some of the conclusions that they drew are kind of common sense, but some of them were very eye-opening.
[00:33:51] Ray Latif: You know, I think some of it is common sense or feels like it's common sense, but it's never really proven until it's proven, right?
[00:33:58] Jon Landis: Well, exactly. That's why it's interesting because whether or not it's a common sense type of thing, they actually did the research and took the time to figure it out definitively.
[00:34:06] John Craven: I think it's also just neat that, you know, no matter what type of product you're making, if it's, I don't know, supposed to be the best tasting can of soda or beer or whatever, versus something that's supposed to be the most, you know, efficacious and functional product. I think, you know, all of these sort of sensory components really do still apply. And I think that's something that we talk about a lot here, which is that no matter what your product is, you need to remember that people are going to like the beverage cooler or beer cooler or whatever. because they want something that is pleasing to the senses. They're not looking for medicine or they, you know, again, they'd be in CBS or something like that. I think there's a lot of good stuff in there that you could pretty much apply to any package type, a little different. Obviously a bottle doesn't have a hiss like the can as he was discussing, but lots of great stuff.
[00:34:57] Ray Latif: Yeah, one of the things that we didn't necessarily touch on are sort of other beverage package types. And actually, I was thinking about the way that so many cans have evolved now to have that kind of wide mouth opening. And I was talking to the folks from Body Armor, which is launching a new sort of wide mouth, well, they're launching a new bottled water line. And they wanted to make sure that the new bottled water had this wide mouth opening. And their reason for it is so that the water is more chuggable. But it's interesting when I thought about that, it sort of reminded me of how package types and openings are sort of intended also to be enhanced where the liquid actually lands on your palate. Because there's different parts of your palate, some senses bitterness or sweetness more than others. That's the kind of thing to me where between cans or bottles or Tetra packs or whatever, you know, the vessel is, there's still a lot more to learn, I think, and I think that there's a lot more to kind of be fleshed out in terms of how to enhance beverages in a way that can sort of trigger a change in the formulation. You know, that's something we also talked about, which is how can you create packages that allow you to reduce calorie count or reduce sweetness or reduce, you know, any other kind of artificial ingredients that might require or that might be needed or required to sort of make the beverage taste like it does.
[00:36:23] John Craven: Well, I think for, you know, smaller companies, it's simply just picking the right package format that's going to lead to success. And I think we've seen, I don't know, if you take cold brew coffee, right? I think there's probably been a cold brew coffee in like any imaginable package format at this point. And Cube? I don't know about a cube, but I was going to say a pouch, but yeah, there's one in a pouch. I think pretty much anything, though. And I think that's something that if you look at them all side by side, some are more appealing and feel more credible just because of their look and their shape. It's kind of different drinking coffee from, I don't know, glass versus a can versus a plastic bottle, which is still a little weird to me, so.
[00:37:08] Ray Latif: And the interesting thing is, I was gonna say, sorry, John. I was gonna say versus a mason jar. Well, you know, I mean, this is an interesting, you know, there's one company that comes to mind that uses all three. They use PET, they use glass, and they use can, which is Calafia Farms. For all their cold brew products, for the ones that are blended with almond milk, the straight ones that are blended with almond milk, it's the PET, it's the plastic. For their nitro cold brew, it's that metal bottle. And for their high-end, Cal-Feel black label, it's glass. So, I mean, kind of interesting to see that kind of company do what it's doing. You have to wonder why they're actually using that kind of variety of material. And whether or not it sort of enhances or changes the way that consumers are drinking the product. And if so, what are they trying to get out? Is the metal to enhance the nitro? Is the glass to enhance the flavor of the black label cold brew? Or is it just like a more premium product because it's in glass?
[00:38:10] Jon Landis: I mean, most people would argue that glass is going to be more premium than plastic, for sure. I think we're seeing some premium efforts in cans, but it's, you know, I mean, the most premium beverage products I've seen have been in glass, right? And that's usually why someone would go with them. Wasn't Voss originally in glass? It still is. It still is, yeah. Yeah, well, they also have the PET custom bottle too.
[00:38:34] Ray Latif: But that's changing. I mean, you know, beer, which had traditionally been sold in glass, like the premium beers, and now you see so many craft beer players moving into cans, and that has become a premium option for some of those.
[00:38:45] Jon Landis: And they're very, very, you know, a lot of them say you drink from the can. I mean, we're thinking of Heddy Topper, obviously. Drink from the can right on the top there, and it's, you know, a very expensive and premium double IPA.
[00:38:57] Ray Latif: Speaking of drinking from vessels and drinking from canned vessels, we have a few different options on the table right here that we're drinking from right now, including what looks like to be a nitro hemp Thai coffee that is in front of Jon Landis. What is that?
[00:39:19] Jon Landis: It's a cold brew coffee infused with nitrogen and 15 milligrams of CBD. Called Native Jack. Native Jack, yes. It's out of Colorado. Jason, who started this company. Do you have a last name? I forget. Pop quiz, huh? Yeah, I fail. But Jason started Yamari, which is a bar and he ran that company for a while out of Colorado and recently exited and now is getting into the CBD game. It's a really interesting product. It's got a pretty interesting flavor profile. pretty sweet, a little bit sweeter than I was expecting. I guess that's the Thai aspect of it, but 15 milligrams of CBD drives the price up to $6.99 for one of these cans. And he put forward a very nice effort with this product, but the problem with being ahead of the curve sometimes is just supply. And it seems to me that, you know, that's a very expensive proposition for an ingredient that, you know, is not being sought after just yet. I believe it will be at some point, but... You're talking about CBD. CBD, correct.
[00:40:25] Ray Latif: They don't really kind of make that very clear on the camera.
[00:40:27] Jon Landis: He doesn't say too much about CBD. It uses hemp oil as the language, but it's all the same thing. I don't know. It's a very, very interesting offering. I've took a photo and tweeted it to a few friends, and everyone seems to be falling over themselves to want some of this. So there's, you know... Certainly people out here are interested in this type of thing. I'm very interested in it. I hope that the marketplace can turn around so he can sell it for a reasonable price.
[00:40:56] Ray Latif: Yeah, well, who knows? I guess we'll find out whether or not- On the next edition. On the next edition of the Bethany podcast, yeah. In front of me, I have a coffee too. This is also a very expensive coffee. It's not in a can. It's the Stumptown Grand Cru. It's another edition of the Stumptown. Grand Cru. This one is their 2016 edition, the Finca L Ingerto bourbon dry process. I don't even know what I just said, but it's got this nice swing top. It's a 750 milliliter bottle, swing top.
[00:41:27] Jon Landis: Looks like a wine bottle.
[00:41:28] Ray Latif: Yeah, it looks like a wine bottle. It is pretty fantastic stuff. One of these bottles is going to run you what, John Craven?
[00:41:36] John Craven: $32, I think.
[00:41:38] Ray Latif: $32.
[00:41:40] Jon Landis: Was that the most expensive cold brew we know of on the market?
[00:41:43] John Craven: No, I think the ounce per ounce price of, I can't remember what the other Stumptown one was that came out a few months ago, but I think that was the most expensive bottle of Colbert. It came in there a little stubby, and I think it was about the same price.
[00:42:01] Jon Landis: Was that the Stephen Colbert one?
[00:42:03] John Craven: No, no, I don't, I don't think that was the most expensive one, but you know, this is, I also had some of that recently. That was not the Stephen Colbert one, but the one that Ray's holding here. And really, really nice stuff. I mean, some total, I don't know, coffee geekery going on in there, so.
[00:42:22] Ray Latif: There is some real coffee geekery going on in here. The description or part of the description reads, imagine a maraschino cherry dipped in chocolate sitting on shortbread. Now, I didn't get any of that when I drank it. I got some good ass cold brew flavor, but I did not necessarily get that.
[00:42:40] John Craven: Well, you probably shouldn't have put all that International Delight and Stevia that you're known for.
[00:42:47] Ray Latif: Stevia International Delight Creamer, that's my go-to.
[00:42:51] John Craven: You're drinking it right now. Unfortunately, people can't see it at home.
[00:42:54] Ray Latif: I'm not drinking that. I was actually sipping on, speaking of Heady Top, the sister brother brand or brother product to Heady Top, which is Focal Point, coming out of the Alchemist. Focal Banger. Focal Banger, excuse me. Focal Banger.
[00:43:06] John Craven: That's what happens when you've had like three beers.
[00:43:07] Ray Latif: Well, I didn't want to say banger in public, so it's just one of those things. I just want people to know it's 3.30. I was gonna go with 1030, I mean, who would know, but. 330 Hawaiian time. Yeah, somewhere. Yeah, any who, yeah, that's what I'm drinking. And I've also got some Matcha Love unsweetened green tea, which I'm about to crush. It's a small can, 5.2 ounces, because I need it. John Craven, what have you been drinking? I had some health aid.
[00:43:34] John Craven: I wish I had something new and exciting to talk about. Not that there's anything wrong with health aid, although I think we're out. So we need more. But yeah, I don't know. I think on especially these busy times for us, you know, we've got our conferences coming up soon. Kombucha and water are kind of my go-to. Okay. Pretty lame. What can I say?
[00:43:57] Ray Latif: I don't think it's lame. There's still a large percent of the population that doesn't drink kombucha. And you know, the more people that are exposed to it and the more people that hear about it, the more people are going to drink it. So there you go. Well, with that being said, I think that's the end of the program, the podcast and us. Good day to you all. And thanks so much for listening. The end of us.
