Hello, dear friends, and thanks for tuning into Taste Radio, the number one podcast for anyone building a business in food or beverage. I'm Ray Latif, the editor and producer of Taste Radio, and I'm with my co-host for this episode, John Craven and Melissa Traverse. Melissa, is it three weeks in a row? It's three outta four.
Yeah, it's I think three outta four. It's three outta four. Yeah. I'm just locking people in closets and uh, making my way into here. I like it. Let's go for six, seven, you know that's what the kids six outta seven. No. Did you, did you know now 56 is a thing. 56. What? That's what I heard from my kids like two weeks ago.
It could be over or they were just making stuff up. Yeah. Right. They were torturing you. Just trolling. No, I, I think you know what, I did hear that there's a lower number that's now popular for some reason it's still consecutive numbers. Yeah, but I didn't know it was five six. Oh God. Hope us all, well, hope everyone's having a pleasant and safe holiday break.
Now is the time to be with your families and not worry so much about the future, but the future is upon us. We're only about a week, less than a week away from 2026. And sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes I get a little anxious about the new year. Most of the time I'm just pretty chill about it.
But I don't know. Something about 2026, I'm, I'm feeling a slightly off little Sunday scaries, but for the new year, I'm not sure. Do you guys feel that? What could go wrong, Ray? What could go wrong? She. A lot. Are you generally an optimistic person, John, this is, you know, you're an entrepreneur. Do I look optimi?
No, I mean, you know, you just, obviously we gotta go back to January. Do it all over again here. And I think generally speaking, try to take the, uh, approach of man, if it was a good year, next year will be better and. If this wasn't a great year, next year it'll be better. You know, it's interesting though, you said we'll do it all over again.
Yeah, and I think for some folks that might mean, well just repetition and kind of the rinse and repeat of business, which I know you're not like that, but how do you stay motivated? How do you think about what's possible versus what we've already done? First, I accept that I have no choice, but soldier on.
I mean, that's kind of, you know, life of, uh, of the business is not for sale is what we're trying to say of owning a business. Um, but I think it's just one of those things that you have to get used to as an entrepreneur. And if you can't get used to it, then maybe it's not for you. Get used to the fact that.
There are some things that you'll have to do over and over again, and then you have to kind of look on that as well, or, yeah. Look, I, I think every type of business has its periods that, you know, are maybe easier or more challenging than others. There are points where, I don't know, you might take some punches and, you know, you just try to brace yourself for the more, maybe try to figure out how to.
I don't know, not get overwhelmed or too stressed out about 'em and try to find, you know, the opportunity and any sort of bump in the road. I mean, I think there are, there kind of always is one, and it's that old fight or flight kind of thing. Sometimes that, especially, I don't know, I remember the days of being early stage entrepreneur where, you know, yeah, there are people that.
When something doesn't work out, they pack up and go home or go back to whatever their career was before, or there's the people that figure out how to work through it and hopefully come out better. I can't ever imagine you going back to work at Dunking Donuts though, so like Yeah, I was gonna say, I'm not at all employable, uh, unless, uh, anyone needs crappy AI videos or something, but, um, hey, that's in demand.
Maybe not the crappy ones, but AI videos mine are pretty good. Okay, well, good to know. I mean, assuming you like Wilford Brimley, but anyway, or Frank Mike, that's, uh, younger listeners are not gonna get that reference, but that's okay. Sorry. That's okay. Sorry. Yeah. You know, on the heels of our LA events, I felt like there was a lot of enthusiasm.
Yes, there always is at these events, but a lot of enthusiasm for the future of the industry and for next year in particular. Melissa, you talk to a lot of folks. Let's, let's accentuate the positive here. Let's talk about what's gonna be great about next year. Yeah. You know, it's always darkest before the dawn and, and certainly, well, Batman reference, I like it.
Was that a Batman reference? Yeah. Oh, okay. But certainly when there are times of challenge, they always create opportunities for folks. So if you can find the opportunity and the challenge, then you'll be doing well. Think about things like the FDA is pushing the removal of synthetic dyes. That gives a ton of opportunity for innovation, for suppliers.
You know, for the brands in our audience who are already doing all of those things. They're very well positioned to be ahead of the pack. As those changes are coming down the pike, people are eating from home more since the pandemic, and that doesn't seem to be changing. I also, I was listening to Marketplace and there was an interview with a beef farmer.
Highlighting the fact that beef sales are higher than they've ever been while production is lower than it's been, I think since the 1950s. So I think that shows that consumers are still spending, they're still gonna buy the things that they want to buy. CPG sales are never going away 'cause. People have to eat and drink.
So I think in our industry we're probably more well positioned to experience growth and opportunity and innovation than many others. Well, also I think we don't need the overall CPG industry to grow a lot for their to be places where emerging CPG can have massive growth. Because I've said this before, and I'll say it again at the end of the year here, but.
There are a lot of dollars stuck in these legacy brands or legacy product types that consumers are moving on from where Big CPG is just slow to react or just gonna ride it out to the bitter end. As long as that's true, there's always opportunity out there. And I think also as maybe there's economic uncertainty, not that there ever isn't economic uncertainty somewhere, but people largely aren't going to downgrade their lifestyle in a way that, you know.
Fine. Maybe a brand that is selling a super premium version of some functional product. Maybe they'll downsize to a or or downgrade to a cheaper competitor. But they're not just gonna leave the health and sort of life choices that they made consumers. That is to go back to like a McDonald's or something like that.
And last thing I'll say, in terms of, you know, things that I guess make me feel good about next year is, you know, we ended this year, you know, the second half in particular, like. There were some solid deals this year. You know, there's a lot of m and a activity and. It's not just deals from like the usual suspects.
You know, even stuff like, uh, Laird acquiring like Navitas, that's good. That's good for society, that we're creating more options for exit of a CPG business. Mm-hmm. I'm not gonna get into whether that was maybe a good deal or a one of need, but you know, I think the optics of that are just that there's more ways to like cash in and that along with some of the bigger deals that we've had.
Sort of fuel for CPG investment. So, I don't know. I mean, I think we're in an okay spot. Not that there aren't, I don't know, maybe reasons to worry to, but yeah, feel pretty good. I wanna go back to your point about consumers not willing to downgrade once they've already experienced a premium or better for you products.
And I'm thinking about. My conversation with Eugene Kang, who is the founder of Archer, which is a brand of Better for You meat sticks. And in our conversation he said, consumers are going to have to decide what value really means to them. Value doesn't always mean lower price. It's about creating consistent quality that people trust, not just chasing trends.
And I thought that was a brilliant point about what value represents to consumers these days. That is a really good way to put it. And I think, you know, there is sometimes in mainstream media this comparison that, I don't know, McDonald's hamburgers, the same as, I don't know, like a grass fed beef or something like that.
Or comparing an Archer product to a slim gym if you've made those changes. Sure. I like on a piece of paper, yes, you could get a hamburger or a meat stick cheaper, but like it's gonna have a lot of stuff in it. It's gonna maybe make you not feel as. Good. Right? I mean, that is like the side effect of food.
And I think, you know, to my point of like not downgrading that like if your choice is like, I don't know, get a cheaper car or go on a less luxurious vacation or feel like crap in your day-to-day life, I don't know, for most people, like, you know what's gonna give there? Yeah. I also think that the exposure to emerging brands and better for you brands is bigger than it ever has been.
And you know, people are shopping at stores they hadn't necessarily shopped at before. And I think the. Larger retailers are aware of that. You know, you see Sprouts and what they've done with their innovation set. You know, whole Foods has consistently introduced new and emerging brands to their shelves, and the result is that the mass retailers are catching up as well.
And, uh, introducing new brands like a Harken Suites, for example, which is a brand of better for you. Candy bars. You know, I spoke with their founder earlier this year for Taste Radio, and it's just Walmart. When they saw that opportunity and they saw the trends and they saw the value they could bring to that cash, I guess, area of the store by introducing a brand like Harkin, I think that.
Has been a long time in the making. They saw that people were shopping at a Whole Foods and looking for better for you options for candy bars. They saw that. To your point, John, you know, the legacy brands and companies been doing the same thing over and over and over and just not really introducing anything in the way of innovation for modern consumers.
And here we have a Harkin Sweets doing just that in a Walmart. I wouldn't say rewarding them, but embracing what they're doing. As organic growth slows in big CBG, not only does that support m and a transactions, but it also supports big retailers like Walmart, listening to their consumers and focusing on products and brands like that.
Yeah, and another way that awareness is growing for smaller brands is through tech. I mean, you think about AI and the impact it's already had. You know, I didn't realize how many people use chat GPT, like all the time, but. There are people who just rely on it as much as people used to rely on Google. I still use Google most of the time, but people use chat GPT in the same way and get more information, more specific information.
So I used it today. I was just, well, I had seen this headline earlier this year about Walmart partnering with Open AI to create AI first shopping experiences. And so I tried to stay. I'm like, okay, Walmart. Tell me where I can find some better for you options when it comes to gummies. And there were brands in there that I wasn't even aware of and they gave you an option, a link to buy it right then and there, which I thought was pretty interesting.
So again, take advantage of the fact that tech and AI isn't just about videos and so on and so forth. You know, no offense to people, you do that kind of stuff, but it is offense taken, right? It is an opportunity, it builds. Broader awareness about what you're doing and create sales almost on the spot. I mean, through chat, GPT.
I'm not an advertising force endorsing chat, GPT, I'm just saying it's, you know, a, an option that wasn't there. Let's say last year it existed last year. Did it? Yeah. Okay. Well, I, I was, I think more people are aware of, they have advertisements for, did you see those? They have advertisements in Boston? No, for chat.
CPT. They had 'em in, in la. Yeah, same thing. They had like outdoor advertising. Did you see those? No. Yeah. I was like, wait, why is there outdoor advertising for, that seems really counterintuitive, right? Yeah, going from the analog to the digital, but this is going from old school advertising works, right?
Digital to analog. I don't know. Yeah. I subscribed to a streaming service to watch a particular show and I went for the cheaper version 'cause I, I just couldn't help myself. So you have to watch the ads and I. Swear, 90% of the ads are generated by ai. Mm-hmm. And I also think that the prevalence of AI and the ease of which people can use it also presents an opportunity for creators to be more authentic and to create, I don't know, content that isn't garbage.
If you're really, if you're really focusing on doing that, because there really is such a glut of. AI garbage that I think with a little bit of intention, you can also set yourself apart from the crowd. In that regard, man, we can have a whole other podcast on this. No, I think, we'll, probably that no one wants to listen to probably though.
No, I, I think we'll probably have an episode about predictions for 2026 and beyond, and I think AI will factor very heavily into that conversation. In the meantime, talk about content creation. There's a website that I love, well, a content company that I love called Food Beast. You ever follow 'em on Instagram?
Sure. Food Beast. They visit a lot of restaurants, fast casual restaurants. They're always eating interesting things. They go to Disney World a lot and try some of the new products they sell at that place. Love that place. Yeah. Okay. You go there a lot, unfortunately. So the founders have created the founders of Food Beast that have created.
A venture fund. It's called Food Based Ventures, and their first investment is a hummus brand called Habia. And it's described as a Gen Z inspired hummus brand. It's really creamy, a lot creamier than the hummus brands that you typically see in stores. And I remember we sat down with the founder of Habia for an episode of Elevator Talk, and I was really happy to see this because here's an early stage brand, like a lot of 'em out there that.
Need people to know about what they're doing. And Food Beast has really embraced the fact that this is a different kind of hummus. That it's a creamier version, that it's a, you can easily describe the difference in flavor and texture of this brand. It's really good. It is really good. I like lived off of that.
During our winter events, I bought a bunch of air on. Nice. It's really good. Yeah. And so Food Beast has not only been highlighting this brand and its Instagram post, they decided to make a financial investment as well. So congratulations to Habis founder Jonathan Auer. I believe that's how you pronounce his name.
It's S-R-O-U-R. But I have a feeling we're gonna be seeing a lot more of Habia in, uh, news stories and. Retail as well is described as the world's creamiest hummus. Have you ever had to No. And I was just going to ask, what makes it so creamy? What's their secret? Oh, I don't know what the secret is. It's like there's some hummus that it just, it, it's like a clump of cement.
Yeah. But this is not that. They specifically called out the founders of food Base, specifically called out the fact that this was one hummus brand that didn't taste like any of the others because of its creaminess. And on their website announcing this investment, they actually have a video about how they make the product and they use soak chickpeas, which apparently a lot of brands do not use soak chickpeas.
And I believe they also add ice cubes. They add, I guess water to make it more moist, but there's a more involved process than you, I think what you would typically see for mass produced hummus brands. Well, the garlic, uh, I think it's garlic, green onion or green onion, garlic. I don't know which way it is, but that flavor in particular is delicious.
Okay. Just definitely try it. Well, you get the thumbs up from John Craven, which is a important for whatever recommendation. Yeah. I think it's time that we talk about sparkling coconut water. Is it how many new sparkling coconut water brands have we seen come to market in the last couple of years? I feel like all of a sudden we're seeing a lot more.
I mean, it's been a thing since the early days of coconut water. Yeah. But it was always like this. Sub of sub segments within the coconut water category? Yeah. No, no. I mean, I think the timing of products that are doing it now, like sun Bear and which you're holding strange water, which water once upon coconut.
Once upon a coconut, sure. I think it's better timing now. Like people understand what it is. And there's also just this clearly, 'cause we've been talking about this for forever, like a resurgence of like healthy sparkling. And I think now seems like a more worthy time to try and see if those things will converge into one product.
Well, the knock on coconut water for a long time was that it was too much sugar. Right? It was good for you, but electrolyte to taste meat. I don't know if that was the knock I, I think the knock was like, I don't taste for like the taste. Yeah. Or I don't know. I'm allergic to tree nuts and therefore can't have a coconut.
Well, what I like about this sun bear that I'm holding in my head, and this is their watermelon variety. Is that it's only 30 calories per 12 ounce can, and it includes five grams of sugar with no added sugar, and the ingredients are carbonated water, organic coconut water, watermelon juice concentrate, organic lemon juice concentrate, and organic natural flavors.
So that's the delightful. So I'm, this is my first time trying this. Don't open it too close to the laptop. All right. All right. That's fairly low for a 12 ounce can. Yeah. Yeah. And it actually tastes more like. Like a tropical sparkling water than it does the coconut water in some ways. Yeah. Um, lemme take another sip here.
Are there other ingredients besides just the coconut water, the watermelon juice and the lemon juice and then other added natural flavors? Yeah. I almost feel like this is a coconut water for people who don't necessarily love the taste of coconut water. Yeah. I mean, I, I think a product like this really is one where the nuances and how the consumer.
Interprets them are going to matter. Like do they see this as a product? That's, man, if you like coconut water, here's one with bubbles. Or is it, I'm looking for clean ingredient, low calorie like soda, sparkling beverage, and. This ticks that box. I think if, if someone is drinking that because they don't necessarily love coconut water, it might be a tough choice to make because the coconut aspect is so heavily advertised on the can.
Yeah, it's, it's right on front of pack here. Sun Bear is in a vertical logo, or it's a vertical logo on the side of the can here. Almost the side of the can. Sparkling water is right at the top of the label hierarchy. The watermelon varieties at the bottom is they call it, of 350 milligrams of electrolytes at the top of the can.
Yeah, I'm not sure what to, to say about, you know, using coconut water as the lead here, but clearly that's who they are. That's the brand they are. So I think it's a, a delicious product. I wonder if it's gonna bring new consumers to the coconut water category or just quench the thirst of those who are looking for a sparkling version.
Alright. John's been waiting to talk about his cheese, which I don't. I'm gonna just pause my own as I don't you eat cheese. You like cheese? I'm not a big cheese. I'm not a big cheese guy. At least when it's raw, if it's cooked, pizza's great. Love pizza, but I'm just not a big cheese eater. Well, I'm curious to know how you'll feel about this one.
This is, uh, rebel cheese. Okay. From Austin, Texas. This is a plant-based artisan crafted cheese. The exact words they describe it. And this one is a truffle breeze, so it's like cave aged and everything. This stuff's really, really good. I don't know if it would, if you're like a brain nerd that this would fool you, but I said I would shut up.
No, I'm not a brain nerd. I'm not a brain nerd either. But I feel like this, uh, like we, I served one of these to friends who didn't realize it was plant-based. Ooh. Um, impressive. It's got like a little bit of truffle flavor to it, and it looks like, I'm not gonna open this, but it's got the like, kind of proper rhyme to it and all that really exceptional stuff and I kinda like.
This, just in that it's not. Screaming plant-based at you, like it's kind of a little more low key. You know, rebel cheese kind of gives a little nod to like, they're doing something different and it's just kind of in the fine print. But, uh, really good stuff. There's so many people who avoid dairy, even if they're not vegetarians or vegans or whatever.
So it's so nice to be able to offer everybody something that just tastes good. I mean, if, if I saw that in a store, I would not think that's plant-based at all. Yeah. And the best compliment they could possibly get the founders that is, is that people didn't know the difference. I also, people don't want compromise.
I also, like on the ingredient list, it's got truffle juice. Oh, okay. How do you lost me on trouble? You just stop. You, you just, you had this great, you know, I, it's, you were, you were doing really well, John. It's funny, like, I don't know. I've read many, many labels in my day. I'm not sure I've seen truffle juice on a.
Cheese product, but that sounds unpleasant to say the least. No, but again, really good. I'll give one of Melissa. Ooh, thank you. Because I know you, you don't wanna try it, but I'm good on that and I don't know. Thank you. Does it need to be refrigerated? I assume it does, yeah. Okay. I mean, it's only been outta the fridge for a little bit, so.
Okay. And you've got some, it looks like cocktail. This is more your speed right here. Yeah, I like that. Yeah. Cocktail mixers. There we go. Uh, this stuff's called the only mix. It's. Basically like HPP Juice. Okay. Specifically designed for cocktails. This is from the founder of the former ready to drink cocktail brand called Drink Smith.
Oh. Um, so he sort of moved on into. Basically producing high quality cocktail mixes. They've got a cucumber margarita. A margarita, just classic, and then a Paloma. I'm gonna butcher this one, Ken Torito, which is uh, lime orange grapefruit. Agave syrup, sea salt. So you know, I think what they had created with Drink Smith, like the actual sort of juice component was to some extent the star of the show and whatever, I guess business model.
Didn't work out, but onto just producing high quality, you know, bar mix products. So this is the second batch I've tried. The first ones were, uh, pretty darn good. So I love the packaging design. You really get to see the liquid inside and the type, it takes up a small amount of the package. It, it's really attractive.
Yeah, and I mean, I think the stuff like there have been brands out there that have tried to just create kind of. High quality bar juice. But you know, I like that. With this, it's sort of like he's got the agave and the, the sort of salt, it's like, you know, just literally, uh, one part booze, two parts mix.
That is often the reason people look for cocktail mixes is they just want to easy option for making them at home, which is one part this, one part that without a lot of. I mean, those are shaken. These are clearly for shaken cocktails. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And a lot better than just getting some crappy shelf stable, I don't know, mix or juice.
Man, that's like a good way to ruin good booze. Exactamundo. Alright. Melissa has a whole bunch of stuff, what looks like some really delicious treats here you have a meat stick, which for some people Oh, but that's a bursky. Oh, bursky. That's good. That's good stuff. So I was talking to the founder of Bursky at NS live and he gave me some of these meat sticks.
These are the pasture raised grass fed, grass finished beef sticks, and they have an ancestral blend. So 25% beef liver. 5% beef heart. I really want to love the taste of these, but I do find that I get a little bit stuck in the gaminess of the organ meat. But just from a health perspective, I do really think they provide, you know, so many great vitamins and minerals.
I have been eating them and I'm hoping that my taste buds sort of acclimate. 'cause I almost see it as like a supplement. I think you're right. It is supplement ish and that's probably, I don't know, I'm not describing it the way they would probably describe it, but if you don't want to eat liver, um, at home, even though there are a lot of benefits to it, I mean this is a good option for you.
Liver's known for which vitamin? Iron. Iron, okay. Yeah, so it is a little bit gamey, but you can also taste the real ingredients. In this product, there are some beef stick, beef jerky brands that taste pretty artificial. I mean, certainly the legacy ones, but Bursky, I feel like is the real deal. I'm committed to retraining my taste buds to Bursky because I do think it's such a great product.
I also have maybe the polar opposite over here. So I have some Swedish candy and I actually got these for the boys Christmas stockings, and I think it's really interesting to see Swedish candy kind of exploding everywhere. I have Bubs Swedish candy. This I got at Target, and this is. Soccer bit. They also have an exclusive partnership with Target, not for this particular S skew, but for something else.
And soccer bit. Is that an actual Swedish brand and are they both from Sweden? I know that soccer bit is Bubs. I don't know if they are from Oh yeah, no, it is. It says from Sona, Sweden. So these are both Swedish products. This. Soccer bit. I actually got in some hipster store in Highland Park in la. Hmm. And then I saw this very same product at World Market.
I had no idea that World Market had such an amazing Yeah. Candy selection. But we really stocked up there. And the product itself is great. They're non GMO. They don't have high fructose corn syrup, no artificial dyes. And they're really just so delicious. So very excited about that. Well done Soccer bit's, delicious stuff.
And it's spelled S-O-C-K-E-R-B-I-T. And bubs is B. Beautiful packaging too. Yeah, gorgeous. Bubs is BUBS. Yeah. Alright, I wanna wrap the show here because I want to give you something, Melissa. 'cause I dunno if I'm gonna see you. So many presents. I'm, I dunno if I'm gonna see you. I, maybe I'll just give you the whole thing.
Uh, before New Year's, this is. A hangover shot from our dear friends at Dirty Saint who we met at Benet live in Brew Bound Live. This is, and I've talked about this before, I think probably the only hangover shot that has actually truly worked. Wow. And you take this after you drink. So you drink this the day after, the morning after you've had a couple drinks.
And I know you imbibe only on the weekends, but concerning it's, you know, new Year's Eve or we're, it's right upon us anyway. I figured maybe I'd give this to you just in case. Well, I appreciate that, Ray. I have been having trouble with the alcohol lately, so we'll see. We'll see if this can help me out.
I'm gonna give it a shot specifically as it relates to not being able to have more than one drink, right? Exactly. Yes, exactly. Yes. Okay. Not the Sure. Generally haven't come. Right. I just can't stop drinking. Okay. Just wanna make that clear to our listeners. Great way to end the podcast, right? The last one of the year.
Well done. Yes. Well, no, I, I, I also wanna make clear to our listeners that we love you guys and we really appreciate you tuning in every week and show the love back. Leave us a review. Yes. Show the love back. Please leave us a review on Apple Podcast. Very easy. Go to the Apple Podcast app on your phone.
Scroll to the bottom. Well, the bottom of our, just ask chat, GBT how to do it. Yeah. Scroll to the bottom of our page. I don't ask time for this. And, uh, please click five stars and or leave a review for us. Thank you so much. Happy Holidays. See you soon. Happy New Year.
