[00:00:03] Ray Latif: Hey, you're listening to the BevNET podcast. I'm Ray Latif. I'm here with Jon Landis and John Craven. Thanks for listening. For those of you who are not familiar, the BevNET podcast is a weekly podcast that explores current trends and news about the food and beverage industry. We have discussions with the BevNET team and conduct interviews with founders of companies, entrepreneurs, industry experts, and other interesting folks.
[00:00:26] Jon Landis: Super important people.
[00:00:27] Ray Latif: It's VIPs only. Definitely. Yeah. Vips, yeah. Not vapes, vips. You know, this week we've got a couple of great segments. We recently traveled to New York City, John Craven and I, and met with Mike Repole, who many of you might know as the co-founder of Vitaminwater. He's also the co-founder and chairman of BodyArmor, a fast-growing sports drink brand, and we had a great conversation with him, ranging from what it was like to build vitamin water to the challenges of playing in a very competitive sports drink category.
[00:01:02] Jon Landis: Yeah, lots of great insight. I mean, it was pretty neat that they're literally now in the same offices that Vitaminwater once had. But it's always amazing to see, you know, what Mike's accomplished since whatever, I guess the late 90s of when Vitaminwater got started. He still seems like, in a lot of ways, the same dude, you know?
[00:01:23] Ray Latif: He seems very hungry and excited about competing every day, whether it's trying to be the number one sports drink brand or winning the Kentucky Derby.
[00:01:32] Jon Landis: Or the number one most listened to podcast. I put that bug in his ear. So I think he's going to hunt us down if he doesn't achieve that.
[00:01:43] John Craven: I mean, the guy is a hustler. All you entrepreneurs out there who listen to this, you guys are out on the street. Like this is the guy that a lot of you probably would love to have a beer with, love to pick his brain. So hopefully you guys are listening.
[00:01:56] Ray Latif: Yeah, and he has some great advice for entrepreneurs in our interview. And I don't think we mentioned this in the podcast, and I mentioned Kentucky Derby. Mike is a very successful horse owner, too. I think he owns about 120 horses at this point. He has had horses race in the Derby, I think, a few last events.
[00:02:12] Jon Landis: I don't know. I haven't watched a lot of horse racing or been to an OTB lately, so.
[00:02:16] Ray Latif: Yeah, so Jon Landis' point, entrepreneurs who are listening, listen very closely. You may have a horse running in the derby one day too if you are as successful as Mike. So without further ado, let's get to the interview. All right, we're here with Mike Repole at the offices of BodyArmor. For those of you who don't know, BodyArmor is a fast-growing sports drink brand, and Mike is the chairman and co-founder of the brand. Many of you also know him as the co-founder of Vitamin Water. Mike, thanks so much for having us. Thanks, Ray. Thanks, John. I appreciate it. Tell us a little bit about where you guys are at in terms of BodyArmor and your position in the category.
[00:02:53] Mike Repole: Well, I've never been so excited about being 1% of a category in my life. when I decided to get back into beverages, which I vowed never to do probably five or six years ago. I wanted to get into a category that was scalable and was a big category, and Sportdrinks was one of those categories. It took us five years to become 1.5% of the category, and like I said, I've never been more excited because other than Gatorade and Powerade, no other brand has been able to get 1% of this category, so it's been an amazing five years to get to this point, and we're really excited about the next five years.
[00:03:30] Ray Latif: Very cool. You know, we talked at NACS, you and I in October about sort of the differences between growing this brand versus growing vitamin water and why you kind of got back into this business. And, you know, after vowing never to get back into the beverage industry, what's this been like, you know, a second time around for you and, you know, what are some of the, some of the biggest differences between growing vitamin water and now growing Body Armor?
[00:03:54] Mike Repole: You know, I think the first three or four years, 12, 13, and 14, in a way, I forgot how tough this was. You know, when I started VitaMortar with Darius, we were, you know, it was 1998, 99, and 2000, and I was a 29-year-old kid. There's a lot of naiveness about, you know, not knowing what can't be possible. And, you know, now, getting back into it in my 40s, you know, yeah, you have a lot of experience and a lot of knowledge, which helps you, but it also, sets up a different type of worries or fears where you know, you have a little better sense of what's happening. And, you know, the first three years were really, really tough. And, you know, not that the next five years won't be as tough as the first five years, but it's a different tough. 2012, 13, 14, like any young startup company, you're thinking about growth, but you're also thinking about survival. You know, many beverage companies or any companies go out of business the first three years. So now to be here talking to you guys five years later in 2017 and start to talk about growth and how big we can be is a lot more fun on whether we're going to make it or not.
[00:04:55] Jon Landis: I guess this being the second time around where the first time I'd say you hit a grand slam, how do you approach something like this knowing that you had effectively set the bar for success with vitamin water? What's the bar for success with this?
[00:05:10] Mike Repole: Yeah, it's funny, John, because that was one of the reasons why May 25th, 2007, the day that we made the deal with Koch, I said, you know what, I'm just not going to be in the beverage industry again. You kind of hit a grand slam, like with down three runs, bases loaded, two outs in the ninth inning. And you know, you're supposed to walk off and do pirate's booty. I was an investor in kind. A lot of guys know that I have a lot of racehorses, but I just didn't want to get back into the industry. And what I just saw, I mean, I missed the partnerships. I missed the relationships. I missed the action of beverages. You know, with snacks, people can, you know, average like one snack a day and you can go 30, 40 days without a snack. Beverages, you drink, you know, five to eight a day and you can't go a day without beverages. So there was, it was a lot more action. And I also looked for innovation in this category. And from 2008 to 2012, I didn't see a lot. It's kind of a boring industry. I mean, there was like flavor innovations and line extensions, but there was nothing really new. Coconut water, which is probably a $500 million category, but I didn't see much out there, you know? So, you know, I figured I'd give it another shot. I partnered up with Lance, and Lance is a great partner, and we're here today.
[00:06:17] Ray Latif: Lance Collins, you're a co-founder of BodyArmor and a successful entrepreneur on his own with Fuse, and now he's got Core. What is it about entrepreneurs like you guys that kind of keeps you going, I think? I think that's one of the questions that you don't have to get back into this. And I know you have opportunities. You mentioned horse racing and snacks and things like that, but what keeps you motivated to stay doing this day in and day out?
[00:06:42] Mike Repole: I mean, for me, it's building a team and it's about winning. You know, where else can you have a startup brand and compete against the biggest companies in the United States? I mean, we compete every single day, you know, versus Coke and versus Pepsi. And for me, that adrenaline rush of competing and winning at a high level and being a seasoned veteran now in my forties, not in my twenties or thirties anymore. It's fun. Great relationships with our distributor partners, whether it's Dr. Pepper Snapple Group or polar distributors, or big guys, or a Canada Dry, Kalil in Columbia, partnerships that I've had with employees that are now become friends that have worked with me at Vitamort, or some of them gone to Pirate's Booty with me and now are back with me together. It's just fun to compete. And right now competing against Gatorade and Powerade is like competing at the highest level. So it's a lot of fun.
[00:07:31] Ray Latif: You know, I mentioned this at the top of the podcast, and you sort of reiterated that. It's pretty tough to get any kind of percentage, any kind of cut of the sports drink category, considering the juggernauts that are Gatorade and Powerade. But you really, you know, have a plan. And, you know, your team that you referred to is a big part of that plan to get to 10% of the category and beyond. How do you get there? And, you know, where do you think the ceiling is for your brand at this point?
[00:08:00] Mike Repole: The vision in 2011 and 12 was to create a better for you, healthier sports drink. You know, one that was free of artificial colors and flavors and sweeteners. And, you know, there was two brands in the category, one owned by Coke and one owned by Pepsi, and they made up 100% of the share. Measured and unmeasured, it's a $10 billion category, with two players getting 100% of the pie. And 50 other, I mean, 50 other players have probably tried this over the last 30 years. They're all for 50. You know, so for us, it starts with the product. We wanted to create a better product. So when you talk about natural flavors, you talk about natural colors, you talk about potassium, you talk about coconut water, you talk about vitamins, and you talk about a product that tastes great, that not only connects with the athlete 15 to 30, but also connects with the gatekeeper mom who's bringing it home for the children.
[00:08:46] Jon Landis: And I guess as far as, you know, that category and the question earlier about hitting another Grand Slam, at what point do you feel like you've kind of achieved a Grand Slam in the sports drink category? What is the sort of like bar percentage wise that you want to hit?
[00:09:02] Mike Repole: if you know micro pulley, it's, it's a hundred percent.
[00:09:04] Jon Landis: Well, okay. A hundred percent. I know I'm asking a loaded question there, but you know, you've kind of passed any other sports drink like competitor that's ever existed already at 1.5. Right. So I guess kind of what I'm getting at is like, now that you're in this sort of rarefied air territory, How do you look at the category and just what the potential is?
[00:09:24] Mike Repole: You know, it's funny, you talk about Vitamort and the Grand Slam, and I would agree. I don't think that what we're doing here at BodyArmor is about hitting a Grand Slam. I think it's about doing something really, really historical and getting to 1%. was part of making history. No brand's ever done it. Gatorade knows exactly what we're doing. Powerade knows exactly what we're doing. We're on their radar. That's something that gets me excited every single day when I get up early in the morning and when I leave this office at 12 o'clock at night. I think we can be the number one sport drink within the next 10 years. For me, the bar is being the number one sport drink. You know, when we started this five years ago, Gatorade was 5 billion times our size and Powerade was 2 billion times our size. Today, Gatorade is 40 times our size. and Powerade is 10 times our size. Next year, when you guys come back and talk to me, Gatorade will be 20 times our size and Powerade will be five times our size. And in 2020, I hope you guys come back. We'll be bigger than Powerade. And in 2025, when you guys come back, my vision is to be bigger than Gatorade. We're not here for bronze medals. I mean, you know, it's gold or nothing. You know, I mean, it's, it's, we're here for the gold medal.
[00:10:32] Ray Latif: It's gold or nothing, and you're here for the gold medal. At the same time, can you do it alone? You already have a strategic partner in Dr. Pepper Snapple, or you're part of their allied brand portfolio. What does that partnership do for you? And is that something that, in that vision you have of being the number one sports drink brand by 2025, is Dr. Pepper Snapple involved in that? And how?
[00:10:55] Mike Repole: Yeah, I think first of all, I knew very on this part of the experience that you, we couldn't do it as just a team and just a brand. So, you know, having Kobe as the number three investor, here's an elite basketball player that now is close to 40 that knows what these young superstars in their early twenties are consuming. And, you know, athletes today are being very thoughtful about what they put in their body, both for food and beverage. Kobe also is a parent of three kids. Two of them are athletes 13 and 10, so he also gives me that perspective as an elite athlete with kids that play sports. Having an experienced team that has done this before with Mike Repole, having an incredible team, I'm so blessed to have not only just senior management, my entire organization, we have 107 of the best employees out there. And then the partnership with Dr. Pepper is why we're here today. You know, they, they own about a 15% stake in the company. They have about 65% of the distribution, incredible relationship with Larry Young, Marty Ellen, Roger Collins, and the entire 19,000 employees at Dr. Pepper. And we want to build this together. We have conversations. I just met with Roger Collins a month ago, and they're very involved in what we're doing. We're working on some projects together, which is going to be a lot of fun. And this is a true partnership, and they're the number two investor. It's exciting, and it's a really, really great partnership, and we're excited about becoming the number one sport drink together.
[00:12:15] Ray Latif: There's going to be a lot of folks, and there are a lot of folks, when we talked about coming out here to come see you, that wanted to know about your career as a beverage entrepreneur.
[00:12:25] Mike Repole: You know, after I graduated St. John's, I got an entry-level job with Mystic Beverages, which was owned by Joseph Victoria Wines at the time. It's obviously now owned by the Dr. Pepper Staple Group. I was an area sales manager in New York, making $22,000 a year. I had a beautiful Nissan Sentra, black, it was wonderful. And I learned by being out in the street, pounding the pavement, whether you were in Queens or Manhattan, Brooklyn, and working with Big Geyser back then. And that's when the legendary Hal Irvin was at the helm and God bless Hal. It was just a fun time. It was like this sort of new age. You know, there was Arizona, there was Snapple, there was Mystic, there was Nantucket. It was a lot of fun in the early nineties. Clearly Canadian was about to take off. And I kind of fell in love with the business there. I met Darius in early 96, 97, and he had this product called Smart Water, which was doing about 5,000 cases a year. And he thought maybe one day it could be 50,000 cases a year. So, you know, being young, I wanted to take a chance and partner up with him. About a year and a half later, Vitamin Water came out. The first version failed, like many first versions of many brands that people usually don't see. What was the first version like? The first version was a little bit lower calories. Instead of 50 was 25. The first flavor was super C acerola. And it actually tasted as bad as it sounds, to be honest with you. It was more nutraceutical and it wasn't about taste and it wasn't about personality and it was kind of boring. And then I think Darius and I were very close to getting divorced down the line. I probably disliked him back in 99 as much as he disliked me. But the one thing about us is we were both very, very competitive. And we never held grudges. And there were things that he saw that I never saw. There were things that I saw that he didn't see. And it was really, it was an incredible relationship, partnership, friendship. We're still great friends today. And the brand is, it's part Mike Repole and part Darius Baikov. And we were never afraid to evolve. And we were never afraid to change and make quick decisions. In 2000, we did $1 million, and we were all happy. And then it was $3 million, $9 million. And six years later, we did $720 million, and we sold to Coke.
[00:14:40] Ray Latif: How is that sort of the building of the brand itself and the focus on less so the functional aspect of what you were doing and more so on the branding and marketing of what Vitamin Water was and came to be? How much of that do you attribute to the success of the brand overall?
[00:14:58] Mike Repole: I think it's split 50-50. You know, marketing is really about awareness and trial and education, but the brand has to stand for something. And the brand, when VitaMortar came out, there was no product out there like it at all. We created this enhanced water category that never created, which is a lot different than what we're trying to do here at BodyArmor, where we're trying to go into this $10 billion category. that no one's been able to penetrate. So when vitamin water was $3 million, the category was $3 million. When vitamin water was $10 million, the category was $10 million. So it was a little bit different, but we had a great team, but the marketing and what the brand stood for, natural enhanced water, lower calorie, really is what connected with consumers.
[00:15:40] Ray Latif: There's a famous player in the vitamin water story, which is 50 Cent. He came on board, I think, with the assistance of your CMO at the time, Rohan Oza, who has since gone on to do some great things as well. Are there any parallels between bringing on a guy like that? And that was sort of a groundbreaking thing, you know, in the beverage industry, kind of giving someone not just an endorsement, but an equity stake in the company. What sort of parallels are there between and learning lessons are there between that deal and what you're doing with Body Armor or with your investor athlete partners?
[00:16:09] Mike Repole: Yeah, it's something we did at Vitamotor. It wasn't just 50 Cent. I mean, whether it was Jennifer Aniston, whether it was David Wright, whether it was Shaquille O'Neal, whether it was David Ortiz, we wanted people that were vested in the company. And at Body Armor, it's the same thing that's happening where a lot of these young athletes are really big fans of the brand. And I would say, Everyone's an investor. I would say probably 75% have given me more money than I've given them. So they really believe in the brand. They put six-digit checks into this brand. I mean, Kobe Bryant, bought 10% of the company. He wasn't given 10% of the company. And he believes in the brand. So what's great is these athletes are really, I mean, they're thinking more business-like. And then they're really thinking about what they're consuming. And if they love a product, they want to put their money where their mouth is. And it's been really great to watch, whether it's James Harden or Andrew Luck or Mike Trout invest in the company. It's been great.
[00:17:05] Ray Latif: It's been great, and we were talking earlier about the sports drink category as a whole, and the idea that there hasn't necessarily been great innovation in this category that's really stuck. And you have talked about how The sports drinks that we were drinking when we were kids, and I don't know if I should say my age or anybody's age at this point, but the sports drinks that we were drinking as kids shouldn't be the sports drinks that today's kids are drinking. What should they be drinking and how do you get them to start drinking that? And what kind of uphill battle? I mean, it's clearly an uphill battle considering the marketing clout of a PepsiCo and a Coca-Cola. What is your process and how are you getting there step by step?
[00:17:45] Mike Repole: I think the first process is your thought process. And the thought process is it's a marathon, not a sprint. Gatorade, let's give it a lot of credit. It's an iconic brand, started in 1965. It's over 50 years old. But the product that we're drinking today, or kids are drinking today, or adults are drinking today, is basically the same product that they were drinking 50 years ago. It makes no sense, especially with the evolution of sports. I mean, think about athletes, you know, what they used to do 50 years ago on the sidelines. They'd be smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee. You know, they were also drinking Gatorade. Think about, you know, think about... Think about the sports equipment. Think about the funny uniforms you see when you see the, you know, the magic versus Larry Bird with the short shorts. You know, think about John McEnroe, you know, with his wooden racket. To me, Gatorade is the wooden racket. To me, Gatorade is the short shorts. I mean, athletes have evolved. Why hasn't the beverage evolved? Because nobody has been able to penetrate the sport space. And, you know, Gatorade is, listen, they're gonna put you out of business within two years. They're like Mike Tyson in their prime. They're going to knock you out. Trust me. I mean, they took some big swings at 2012, 13, 14. And you guys. Oh yeah. And, and, and, and, you know, we, we might've been knocked out once or twice, but we got back up. And now, I mean, 173% growth last year, you know, we're up 150% already in January off a really, really big base. We're over a hundred million dollars in retail. Next year, we'll be over $200 million in retail. We're here to stay. They know it and so does PowerAid. And you know, that's why you've seen Gatorade try to come out with some, you know, innovation. And I don't think they're going to stop there. I don't think PowerAid is going to stop there.
[00:19:25] Ray Latif: What do you think of the innovation?
[00:19:27] Mike Repole: Well, I'm glad you're asking me about georganics today, because six months from now it won't be out there. So now it's a relevant question. But I mean, it's not selling. It's not turning. I've heard Pepsi has some extra excess inventory if you guys need some at a cheaper price. And the turns on it are very low. I mean, we have one SKU, Strawberry Banana, that outsells all three combined and thrown into the case. I mean, it's just not selling. And I really don't think, Gatorade knows how to innovate. I think they're good at doing what they do best. It's their core product. Spend a lot of money on the NFL. Spend a lot of money on the NBA. Spend a lot of money on TV. Spend a lot of money on media. Force it down consumers and hope that a company like Body Armor never comes around. Unfortunately, we came around.
[00:20:11] Ray Latif: You're here. Is there room for an organic product in the sports drink category though?
[00:20:15] Mike Repole: I think organic ingredients, I think organic is going to play a big role, but it seems like more and more you turn around, soon everything's going to be organic. I think organic ingredients can play a role. In sports drinks, do I think it's a priority? No, I don't. I mean, we could have done it, we could do it. Right now, I don't see us focused on it. For me, it's more natural than organic. It's about natural colors and natural sweeteners and natural flavors. To me, it's about 10% coconut water. To me, it's about vitamins. To me, it's about low-sodium electrolytes versus high-sodium electrolytes. To me, it's a change of formula and going more about better-for-you natural ingredients.
[00:20:52] Ray Latif: The hard thing, though, is using that word natural, right? I mean, natural is one of those words that's not necessarily fully defined at this point by the FDA. There've been lawsuits regarding the use of the word as a descriptor for beverages. I don't know how often you use it in your marketing. Organic is a little bit more defined, which is why I think it's a little bit easier for everyone to understand. But how do you market the natural aspect of your products effectively if you don't use the word natural as often as you probably could?
[00:21:18] Mike Repole: Well, we talk about natural flavors. versus Gatorade having, or Powerade having artificial flavors. We talk about natural sweeteners. We just came out with Body Armor Light, which is the first natural low-calorie sport drink out there, erythritol and stevia, 20 calories per serving, three grams of sugar. While G2 and Powerade Zero are not growing, probably because people don't want artificial sweeteners, we're excited to launch a natural, this is the first natural sweetened sport drink, so we're excited about that. So, natural's here to stay. You know, it's not, you know, people aren't going to be going back to artificial. So, you know, when you start using ingredients like blue one and yellow five and red 40, they're probably not going to be here for the long term and they're going to have to do something. And let's be honest, if we don't come around, I don't think Gatorade and Powerade really have to make much of a change. I think the game, I think we're going to change the game over the next five years.
[00:22:12] Jon Landis: So as you're changing the game, do you expect the sports drink category to open up for other people too, as part of this process?
[00:22:19] Mike Repole: The only way somebody else will be able to be the number four sports drink is invest over $50 million in your first five years, have another hundred million to invest the next five years, partner up with Dr. Pepper, sign Kobe Bryant, and have a tremendous team of entrepreneurs, employees that have done this before for 15 years.
[00:22:39] Jon Landis: So you don't think there's room for like a niche player or something like that?
[00:22:43] Mike Repole: I think in five years, there'll be two sports drinks and we'll be one of them.
[00:22:47] Ray Latif: 50 million the first five years, 100 million the next five years. That sounds like a pretty good plan for funding and investment. Is that your plan? Or a stupid plan. If it works, it's a great plan.
[00:23:00] Mike Repole: If it doesn't work, it was the dumbest plan I've had all my life.
[00:23:02] Ray Latif: Yeah, well, it seems to have worked out so far. And as you mentioned, you're growing really fast, the brand overall. What particularly do you think is the real future of the brand? Is it the low calories? Is it the water? Is it your flagship? Is it your new 28-ounce package? Where do you think the most growth is going to come from in the next few years?
[00:23:20] Mike Repole: Yes, yes, yes, yes. When you talk about a $10 billion category, 20 ounces, 77% of the category inconvenience, 55% of the category overall, we were never in that size. Powerade Zero and G2 are bigger than our core brand. We never had a low calorie version. growing distribution and availability. RECV is 40% while Gatorades is 99%. So while we're going to grow distribution, while we're going to grow availability, we're going to continue to come out with innovation. I mean, I've never did this at Vitamotor. We're launching 12 new SKUs this year. We're going from eight to 12 SKUs. So when I tell you we're $100 million in retail, that's with eight SKUs. By March 1st, we're going to have 12 new SKUs out there. We'll be 20 SKUs. So I've never done this before. To me, when I sit down with my marketing team and my operations team, I'm talking about a pipeline of innovation for the next three to four years that could be 45 SKUs in the next four years.
[00:24:17] Ray Latif: Do any of those SKUs include protein going forward? I know you have, not for this year necessarily, but going forward in the next iteration of BodyArmor?
[00:24:25] Mike Repole: You know, for me, what I'm thinking is, the name of the company is BA Sports Nutrition. You know, we started with our core sport drink. You know, I told you about how athletes are thinking differently about what they put into their bodies. We want to be a sports nutrition company. So not only could it be protein, it could be maybe some food supplements. So for us, it's we want to be there. You know, Gatorade hydrated athletes for the last 50 years. I want to hydrate athletes for the next 50 years.
[00:24:51] Ray Latif: I'd rate athletes for the next 50 years. And are you going to be around to run the company through that? And I don't necessarily mean as in, are you going to be alive? But I guess what I'm saying is, your commitment to the company is thorough at this point, is 100%. Going forward, how much of this do you still have in you to kind of keep going? It's a rough-and-tumble business, it's a blue-collar business, and this is a very, very difficult category. How motivated are you to keep fighting the fight?
[00:25:21] Mike Repole: I didn't tell you guys, but I'm grooming my future replacement. My 18-month-old daughter, she's She's starting to talk now, and she's got a really, really tough personality, and she'll probably be running the company in 2035. Listen, Ray and John, this is very tough. I mean, sometimes I feel like I'm negative when talking to entrepreneurs about getting in the business because it's so tough. I mean, it's 18-hour days. It's seven days a week. There's no doubt at BodyArmor. If you checked our email server, there's an email 24 hours a day. Whether it's someone sending an email at 12 o'clock on the West Coast, or someone wakes up at 3.30 in the morning and has an idea, it's nonstop. It's seven days a week. I will tell you this, and I always tell people that I surround myself with, if you love what you do, it's not work, it's just life. I've never had more fun. in my life than what I'm doing right now. Vitamin Water was about stress. You know, I was young, I had no money, I was dreaming. I always say, think big, dream bigger. You know, John said that we hit a grand slam, and we did hit a grand slam. And, you know, what made me so proud at Vitamin Water was there were 600 employees, you know, 200 made over a million dollars, 200 made over $500,000, 200 made over $100,000. Success is best when shared. So to me, that was really, really special. Here, It's not stress. There's pressure. But it's pressure put upon the team and myself. We love competing at a high level. And Brett Favre would always say that before every big game, he'd go out and throw up. And then he'd go out there and throw for 300 yards, four touchdown passes, and win the game with 32 seconds left. So for me, I have that feeling right now. It's just like every day I wake up, I'm just so fired up. And when I leave this office at 12 o'clock at night, I can't wait to come back here.
[00:27:05] Ray Latif: And it's funny because this office was once the office or held the offices of Vitaminwater, right?
[00:27:10] Mike Repole: Yeah, this is the Vitaminwater office. And what was so cool about it was, you know, Darius and I in 1999 started with like two desks and we ended up having 90% of this office by the time we left, about 300 employees in a year. And then when Coke bought the company, they moved out eventually. And I kept my family office here. This is my family office that we're here right now. And now we're moving into the new body armor space and we have about 50 employees downstairs. And you know, what I told them when we had a little christening for the office was, you know, one day we'll take up 90% of the space, maybe the whole building. You know, we're just, you know, we're having fun. We're doing something special, doing something that's never been done before. And there's an incredible runway for us.
[00:27:49] Ray Latif: Amazing. I definitely believe in stories and anecdotal stories about success and failure or maybe success in some stumbles. And our listeners would definitely benefit from hearing some of the great things that you've done at Vitamin Water and here at Body Armor. I'm also interested to hear what you consider to be a stumble in the building up and the development of Vitamin Water and how you kind of got past it eventually.
[00:28:19] Mike Repole: To me, it's hard for me to single out, oh, that one story. I mean, as an entrepreneur. You stumble every day. You stumble weekly. It's not like, oh, once we hit this point of item order 2004 and we were $100 million, it was smooth sailing from there. The bigger you are, the bigger the problems become, to be honest with you. And the key about it is learning from your mistakes. When you stumble, get back up. Surround yourself with an amazing, talented team of type A personalities, people who hate to lose. One of the first questions I always ask in an interview is, are you a sole loser? And if you tell me you're not a soul loser, I probably don't hire you. I have a company and I built companies around people that are soul losers. Show me someone who likes to lose. I'm going to show you a loser. So show me someone who hates to lose and I'm going to show you a winner. So to me, we stumble every time. There's nothing wrong with stumbling, nothing embarrassing about it. Learn why you stumbled, prevent it from happening again, and know you're going to stumble again. Just keep getting up.
[00:29:18] Ray Latif: In terms of successes, when you think about having sold the company, obviously that's a very big success. But what else was a big success for you in the development of vitamin water and even in the development of body armor going forward?
[00:29:33] Mike Repole: We kind of look at it, we have short-term goals, we have long-term goals. If you pick up an account like Kroger, that's a win, that's a success we celebrate. When you start looking at the new Nielsen numbers that say you become a hundred million dollar retail brand, that's a win. So I think we celebrate a lot of our wins and successes. We work hard, we play hard, we have fun. But to me, it's, like I said, it's a marathon, not a sprint. So when you get to mile three, wow, you got three miles. You get to mile six, you get to 13, you're halfway through, you get past 20, you just keep running. And then, hey, most people that I know that run marathons, they don't just run one, they run multiple marathons. And I would say vitamin water was my first marathon. Pirate's Booty was another marathon. And kind of what I've done in horse racing is another marathon. And I think body armor is just another marathon, but I really think that this could be, If I was going to bet, and trust me, I bet a lot of money already. You mentioned horse racing. Yeah. I'm also talking about this brand. This brand is going to be a bigger brand than Vitamwater and Smallwater. I mean, it's in a bigger space, in a bigger category, with only two players. And I think the competition has a lot of floors. And one of them, the biggest floor, is what the product consists of, high sodium and artificial. And I think as consumers go away from that, they're going to have to make a pretty drastic move. Coming out with geo-organics, which is just organic salt and sodium, and no colors, is not going to get them there. It's going to have to be something radically different.
[00:31:02] Ray Latif: Any other categories that kind of excite you? Any other brands in the beverage industry that have kind of tickled your fancy? And why?
[00:31:10] Mike Repole: You know, I mean, I'm looking at the same categories you guys are looking at. Energy is going to grow, tea is going to grow, coffee is going to grow, water is going to grow, protein is going to grow, and sports drinks are going to grow. So for me, it's more about looking at categories. Those are the categories where the growth is going to happen. You know, CSD is off this huge, huge, huge category. If it drops one to 2% a year, that's going to trickle into other categories. People are hydrating more with water and sport drinks and tea and coffee and energy drinks. And I think those categories are going to continue to grow.
[00:31:43] Ray Latif: So do you want to invest in those categories or do you want to invest in brands in those categories? Or do you just see, you know, those categories as ones that are prime for continued development?
[00:31:52] Mike Repole: you know, we're a sports brand. If the category makes sense, like, you know, body armor water, you know, when athletes are drinking eight waters a day and two or three sports drinks, and we can do a pH, you know, electrolyte, wide mouth bottle that fits what we stand for, then we'll be in it. So as long as we see an athlete need for that category, we want to be in that category. You mentioned protein, there's nothing definite, but protein is something athletes go to, you know? And I think that's another category that, The biggest player there is muscle milk and it contains no milk, so that's kind of weird right there. And I think that there are brands that are the leaders that people can make a better for you or healthier version of those brands in those categories.
[00:32:33] Ray Latif: As far as the rest of the beverage industry goes at this point, it seems to be a health and wellness kind of tilt for everything that's coming out. What aspect of the beverage industry's health and wellness tilt do you think is most important to kind of focus on? Is it calories? Is it sugar? Is it function? Where are you looking at the most potential for your brand and beyond?
[00:32:53] Mike Repole: I think probably function. If you're gonna have sugar in your product, you need a purpose for it. You're not gonna get away with sugar just for great taste and refreshment. For us, pure cane sugar for carbohydrates, which will give an athlete energy immediately. For energy, you know, sugar is part of the, you know, caffeine is all about giving them energy. You know, so I think that sugar needs a purpose. You can't just be sugar for sugar. Cold-pressed juice, you know, I mean, it's probably got more sugar than any product out there. Category is really growing. So, you know, sugar needs a purpose. You know, everybody's saying zero sugar, zero sugar, zero sugar. It's a big country out there. I think too many people just focus, you know, what's happening in Boston, what's happening in New York, what's happening in LA, what's happening in San Fran, and they think that's what... the entire country's about, it's not. You know, the Southeast, Carolinas, Georgia, Florida, that's a different world. Texas, Oklahoma, that's a different world. The Central, you know, the Central's different, you know, whether you're in Iowa, Kansas, and Nebraska, and, you know, all these trade shows. I mean, you guys have these trade shows. They're in New York and they're in Santa Monica. You go to Fancy Food in San Francisco and New York. Expo West is in SoCal. I mean, you know, when was the last time some of these beverage entrepreneurs or people that are looking at what everybody's consuming have been to Iowa or Oklahoma? I was in Iowa and Oklahoma last year. I mean, I'm visiting not just New York and California and see what's working there, but I'm visiting every part of the United States, San Antonio, Jacksonville, Florida, Des Moines, Iowa. I mean, everyone consumes differently. Not everything's about what happens in New York and what happens in LA and what happens to San Francisco. You know, we're kind of looking at everything right now.
[00:34:32] Ray Latif: You're looking at everything and where there is opportunity regionally in this country. And I asked you before, I mean, where do you think there's opportunity to sort of incubate a brand? Because we have a lot of listeners and a lot of people ask us, OK, where should I start out? And oftentimes you say, OK, we'll start where you're based. and start from there and build out and get a few retailers from there. And a lot of times, if you can prove yourself in New York, the reasoning is that if you can prove yourself there, you can be sold anywhere. But are you seeing pockets of the country right now where there is some opportunity to incubate and grow and sort of develop new products and new SKUs?
[00:35:06] Mike Repole: I think there definitely is opportunity there. The biggest issues with those markets that we just talked about is the route to market. It's harder to get to retail in those accounts. It's like Anheuser-Pusch, Coke, Pepsi, Dr. Pepper. And I think one of the reasons why Dr. Pepper has been super successful with their allied brands is they're giving entrepreneurs a route to market to 40 states that otherwise you really can't get to. There's plenty of ways you can get to market in New York and California. But in that central part, southwest, southeast part of the country, you're limited. So I think their allied brand strategy works very successful because we can go to Manhattan right now and just take a walk and walk into 20 stores. And you guys are beverage experts. And I'm a beverage entrepreneur. And we could probably find 20 brands that none of us have ever seen before. If we went to Milwaukee, Ohio, Michigan, we probably wouldn't be able to find one brand. So the competition, when you go to New York and you go to Manhattan, there's 900 beverage brands in the store. And you go somewhere else in the Central, there might be 25. And we know all 25. And some brands that don't sell in California, New York, sell a lot in Texas and sell a lot in Florida and sell a lot in Michigan, sell a lot in Ohio. I just think that people just focus too much on if you can make it in New York, you'll make it anywhere. And brands get built in New York, LA and San Fran and, you know, maybe small brands, but I'm looking for a scalable brand. I'm looking to be the number one sports drink and you can't be the number one sports drink and only connect in New York and California. Right.
[00:36:38] Ray Latif: All right, we're running out of time. I have two more questions and then we'll get the heck out of your hair. And I really, really appreciate the time, Mike. This has been great. One, if you could do this all over again, you know, if you were coming out of Mystic and you had this opportunity to start a new beverage brand, would you?
[00:36:52] Mike Repole: Knowing what I know now, absolutely. But giving someone advice, I mean, you know, listen, nothing's ever easy in life. No matter what you're going to do and be super successful in, it's not easy. You know, one of the things I always talk about is outworking, you know, your competition. You know, I think my most productive hours are from like seven o'clock at night to like one in the morning. Because while I'm working those six hours, most people are at work, at home, watching TV, watching Netflix, spending time with their wife and their kids. And to me, you outwork your competition. But if you're going to be an entrepreneur, you can't do it halfway. You have to be 100% committed. And 100% committed is not 9 to 6. It's not Monday to Friday. It's Saturdays, Sundays. And it's 24-7. And there's no holidays. So I give that speech to entrepreneurs. And either it scares them away. And if it does scare them away, I also save them a couple million dollars and save them some friends because they'll borrow money off friends and never be able to pay them back. Or, you know what? They know that that's what they're committed to and there's a lot of people that are willing to do it, but there's a lot more people that will talk about it and they won't do it.
[00:37:58] Ray Latif: Last question, you know, we always talk at the end of these podcasts, we always discuss some of the things that we're drinking and some of our favorite libations of the week, month, year, or whatever up to this point. Anything outside of the BodyArmor family that you're really enjoying at this point?
[00:38:13] Mike Repole: Probably orgain protein. That's been my protein drink. So I've been drinking a lot of orgain protein, but body armor water, body armor light, and just body armor and orgain protein.
[00:38:25] Ray Latif: Great stuff. Awesome. All right. Well, once again, you know, this has been really fun and engaging, and I really appreciate the time, Mike, and good luck with everything going forward. And I'm looking forward to talking to you in 2025.
[00:38:37] Mike Repole: Thanks, John. Thanks, Trey.
[00:38:38] Ray Latif: Appreciate it. Great stuff from Mike. Really enjoyed that interview.
[00:38:43] Jon Landis: So much insight.
[00:38:44] Ray Latif: So much insight.
[00:38:44] Jon Landis: And he was very generous with his time. I think he kept us there for, jeez, I don't know, two or so hours.
[00:38:50] Ray Latif: We were there for a couple hours. And yeah, it was very great to see him and his team, Jason Camilos, Michael Fidelity, and those guys are really, they've got some on their hands. Definitely. All right, let's move on to our next segment. Jon Landis, you want to cue this up for us?
[00:39:06] John Craven: Uh, yeah. I mean, we just watched the Super Bowl. I mean, I'm not a Patriots fan, but you raised everyone. Yeah. You know, everyone around here is so obviously, you know, it's a Super Bowl. A lot of people have been talking about the ads. Uh, we see beverage brands buying ads every year for the Super Bowl. In fact, when I first started researching this segment, I was thinking about just doing it on the Pepsi halftime show. And why is that? is still a thing, right? But we decided to broaden it out and talk a little bit more generally about Super Bowl advertising and brought in senior reporter Martín Caballero. Nice pronunciation. Hey, you know what? I actually, you'll hear Martín Caballero de la Mancha. I'm reading Don Quixote, so I had to throw that in there. Nice. Let's roll tape. Super Bowl ads are expensive. This year was five million dollars for 30 seconds of airtime. Yet the demand to purchase the space doesn't seem to be diminishing as prices continue to increase. Every year we see ads from the industry stalwarts Coca-Cola and Pepsi. This year's lineup included newcomer by who had a regional spot last year. Reports have shown year after year that these ad purchases do not have a significant effect on sales. So then what do these beverage brands gain by purchasing ads with such an astronomical price tag. For the big companies, here's why I think buying Super Bowl commercials makes sense. Investing in a medium for marketing has its limits. There's an inevitable equilibrium point in each strategic area of marketing where your return on investment minimizes with every dollar spent. Major companies have hit this spending level in many channels, TV, radio, print, online, social, and they still have a budget left over. You know, for CPG companies to do a lot of advertising, these ads play into a larger overall strategy. It's less about driving sales, more about associating the brand with the positive aspects of life. And keep in mind, these companies have many millions of dollars in their annual marketing budget. And finally, these large companies who've been buying these ads for years would likely have a noticeable absence if they didn't run, and they're probably just trying to avoid that. There are some companies like Buy, and there is Mindshare to be had. And there's still a lot of people out there who have not seen, heard of, or tried their product, which is really not so true with Coca-Cola or Pepsi. So keeping all of this in mind, I brought in Martín Caballero of La Mancha on the podcast to discuss the ads we saw this year. Marty, you're our senior reporter.
[00:41:28] Super Bowl: Yes, good to be here, Jon.
[00:41:29] John Craven: Thank you for joining me on this. And when you were watching the ads, first ad that you saw, what popped out at you?
[00:41:36] Super Bowl: Right, yeah, I think one of the earlier ads was Coca-Cola. And going on what you said before, obviously, I don't think that the goal with this ad is to move more units of Coca-Cola. That's something that people are pretty well aware of. Instead, they sort of dipped back into a familiar theme that they've touched on in advertising over the years, which is sort of this message of unity and multiculturalism. obviously in the political climate, these things can sort of be interpreted through that lens with some of the activity that's been going on. But yes, very much sort of embracing different cultures, message of unity, and also interesting that this comes in the face of some of the attention that they've been getting for the soda tax, some litigation going on, which is very much sort of turning the tide of health conscious people sort of against soda. So kind of interesting going back in these sort of core messages that sort of avoid any mention of sugary water.
[00:42:31] John Craven: It's a really easy message from the lean on. I mean, they're a multinational corporation. Their products are sold around the world. It would make sense that they would not discriminate.
[00:42:39] Super Bowl: Right. It's another chance to rebrand. It seems like every year, another Super Bowl, another chance to sort of drive that message home again.
[00:42:45] John Craven: So, so that was the first one we saw. We seen it. We did see, I think Sprite had an ad as well. It was a little, little tried, you know, trope that we've seen many times over with the overt subliminal messaging saying Sprite, a million times Sprite, just trying to get you to think about Sprite.
[00:43:02] Super Bowl: And they use the, of course, LeBron James is our big celebrity endorser for that category. But as you mentioned before, I think Bai is really the big winner of the night. They finished, I think, number 12 in USA Today's ad meter. And that was the number one position for any non-alcoholic brand. So they did a really great job. And talking about using celebrity well, and sort of capitalizing on the moment of all these eyes watching at the Super Bowl, perfect sort of use of obviously Justin Timberlake, who's involved in the company, Christopher Walken. I mean, instantly recognizable, iconic sort of guy, very winking at the audience with a reference to the NSYNC song, obviously Justin Timberlake's past. And really sort of keeping it a little bit vague, keeping some sense of mystery there. You know, people not really sure what Pi is, but hey, like you've got some, you've got something to talk about, which I think is really the goal here.
[00:43:54] John Craven: I think they were really smart. Apparently they did all the production in house. So they probably saved quite a bit of money there. Obviously Justin Timberlake is an investor. I don't know that they had to pay him necessarily. And Christopher Walken's got a great agent because he seems to be in a different Superbowl commercial every year. Ultimate accessory to any commercial. I think Christopher Walken Definitely, I mean, I still remember him doing the Fatboy Slim song, and I still remember some of the epic commercials that he's done in the Super Bowl. So it's not surprising to me that he came across very favorable with the audience. I think you shared with me something that TiVo said it was the number one most rewound and watched and shared commercial through their service.
[00:44:34] Super Bowl: And I think that's what you're going for here. You're not trying to necessarily see a spike in sales. You're really trying to get people talking about the brand, get people interested. And of course, buy is in this position where they're sort of transitioning from, you know, an independent to now, obviously the deal has gone through. So I think well executed. Good job stepping up to the plate there.
[00:44:53] John Craven: I agree with you. And then for contrast, I think we have to talk about Fiji's commercial a little bit here. And what you said is really what the goal is, is to get mind share and get people talking about it and have positive reactions to it. Their commercial was, Fiji's commercial was very serious. It had a child delivering like a lecture about our planet. It was, I mean, I think the message is very good, and I believe that their company does, they have a foundation that does tons of good for clean water and ecosystems in the world, but the message, it just didn't get across in the commercial to me.
[00:45:27] Super Bowl: Yeah, I think if Bai was an example of going the opposite way and sort of staying a little bit vague and mysterious and not going direct, I think Fiji was an example of just going absolutely direct and really just associating the brand with these familiar images of sort of beaches, paradise, beautiful locations, health, sourcing being a big deal. As you mentioned, I think all those are valid qualities that the brand brings to the table. I'm not sure if a Super Bowl ad for that kind of money and for that kind of presentation and stage really is going to get people talking about it on social media or just the next day talking about their favorite ads. I'm not sure if that really connects. So, you know, a little bit of a different approach. Would it have been weird if they had a celebrity trying to sell Fiji water? I'm not sure. Maybe that wouldn't work for them.
[00:46:12] John Craven: So I still think that maybe like a call to action, because I mean, when you, when you think about like these ecological problems that we have, it's great to talk about it and read about it, but the people who really care about it want to call to action. And I think that maybe if they associated something like that, it might've been a little bit more powerful. Sure. I'm not sure. I'm not a marketer. Don't ask me.
[00:46:31] Super Bowl: Well, I think it's an interesting contrast with the other ad that we saw for Life Water, which is obviously the new premium water that's being launched by Pepsi. Obviously, there's a lot of money and marketing muscle behind that. They sort of went the opposite way. They did not focus on the liquid itself. Halfway through the commercial, you may not have even known what it was for, but they really went hard with the sort of artistic and sort of progressive lifestyle aspect of the brand, which, you know, if you guys don't know, every bottle features a different design from young up-and-coming artists. I think Pepsi has been trying to emphasize that this will be sort of like a stage and platform for artists to be discovered and show off their work a little bit. I think that sort of was closer to the maybe typical Super Bowl mark of a commercial. They also, you know, had John Legend song in the background, so you can tell there.
[00:47:21] John Craven: Which you pointed out to me that Fiji's been trolling him.
[00:47:24] Super Bowl: Yeah, Fiji dug up a photo of John Legend holding a Fiji bottle and, you know, shared it with the world. But that's another example of, I think, what these commercials are often about. It's about creating a conversation about sort of everything happens in real time now, obviously through social media. So just, you know, opening the doors to those kind of things and conversations and interactions.
[00:47:46] John Craven: And in putting this together, I struggled a lot to try to relate these Super Bowl commercials to a lesson that a beverage entrepreneur might be able to take on. But in summary, I think, you know, you can look at what was successful and what is not. I don't know if this is a sign of things to come if, you know, this celebrity endorsement, mystery, intrigue type of ad bye bye that seems to be very effective is a sign of what kind of marketing would be effective for natural products in the future. I mean, it is something to be aware of. As far as these two particular ads are concerned with buy in Fiji, consumers seem more receptive on something entertaining and light than they do a, you know, a serious message about the product itself.
[00:48:34] Super Bowl: Well, I think we talk a lot and we hear a lot about authenticity in the beverage industry. So I think, to be honest, I think that ad was probably authentic to Fiji, and I think the ad was authentic to Dubai as well. I think it's the context here is really the question. So while that message of authenticity may really resonate with people in certain contexts, For Fiji, maybe in the Super Bowl ad where everyone is sort of looking for it to be wowed and something to talk about, that doesn't really connect. Whereas by a sort of quirky upstart brand that's doing a lot of different things with flavors and line extensions, this sort of quirky, fun ad maybe works for them in the Super Bowl context. But I think definitely staying authentic is one thing that we're seeing.
[00:49:15] John Craven: There's your lesson, folks. Choose your medium carefully. Choose your channel. Choose your audience and your medium. which will resonate with the message that is true to you. I think that's really what we can take away from this. So thanks a lot for joining me, Marty.
[00:49:29] Ray Latif: Thanks, John.
[00:49:29] John Craven: See you next time.
[00:49:32] Ray Latif: Great conversation. I really enjoyed that. Some really good insights. You guys work well together. All right, so let's wrap this up with some favorite beverages or some notable beverages that we're drinking this week. IGZU, which is, they market a bamboo leaf tea. This is their elderflower citrus variety they have in front of me. The founders are great people. They were participating in the BevNET's New Beverage Showdown a couple of years ago or a year and a half ago. I like what they've done. Me personally, I'm a smaller size kind of guy. 16 ounces might be a little tough for me, but really good tasting product. They dropped the aloe. So it used to be bamboo and aloe tea and now it's just bamboo. Yeah. Lastly, I have Mixwell, which is a new line of cocktail mixers. It comes in this 12 ounce can with an unusual closure. It has a pop top closure that you can reseal. So not too many cans you see have a resealable option, but this one does.
[00:50:25] John Craven: And shout out to Alan Teague of Zolutions. I don't know if he listens to this, but he's at like literally every single BevNET Live and he's the guy who does those top closures. Yes.
[00:50:35] Ray Latif: All right, John Craven, you're doing a lot of sampling these days. Anything stand out for you?
[00:50:40] Jon Landis: I think the thing that I tried in the past week that was most interesting were the Dunkin' Donuts iced coffees, which we recently picked up in our travels.
[00:50:50] Ray Latif: The new RTD bottles. The ready to drink, excuse me.
[00:50:53] Jon Landis: And they're someone who's very late to the game of ready to drink coffee. You know, I wouldn't say it's like an overly innovative product. It's just straightforward and well done, mainstream, ready to drink coffee. But I have to guess that it's going to displace some dollars in the category. So I think that's pretty interesting to see a brand like that coming into the category. I think it's smart that they didn't go into glass, which Starbucks does, or cans, which other brands have tried to do, but they went with just, you know, clear plastic bottles. Seems something like, you know, that's true to their brand. So, curious to see how that goes. Do you think it's going to bring new customers to the coffee category? I don't know. I mean, I, you know, the problem that I always see with coffee is just that at this point, like the options for coffee, I mean, there's just too many. So you've got a what about a $2 billion ready to drink coffee category and You know, I guess one could say that that should be a lot bigger, but, you know, why? I mean, why buy packaged coffee at this point? I think it's something that if you're a consumer of Dunkin' Donuts, you know, why don't you just go to one of their stores or whatever? There's a lot of them around. There's a lot of them and it's probably a cheaper thing than say a Starbucks or whatever it might be that people are drinking on the third wave end or any of the cold brew products. So I don't know. I mean, honestly, it's one of those categories. It's like sports drinks where people have tried so many times to crack it and it is really hard.
[00:52:28] Ray Latif: I have a strong feeling that we're going to be talking about the coffee category again at Expo West and doing a roundup of innovation there. Never ending.
[00:52:35] Jon Landis: I mean, it seems like it's, yeah, we're geared up for another year of lots of coffee products.
[00:52:40] Ray Latif: So if you're a coffee maker and you've got some innovation coming out, please email us. Let us know what's coming out and what you're doing because we want to hear about it. Definitely.
[00:52:48] John Craven: I don't want to keep the coffee thing going forever. I just was, I had a very interesting conversation with someone the other day who was telling me that they were showing stats on how they don't offset drip coffee sales in, in C stores because the profit margins on those cups of coffee that they pour drip is enormous. And I wonder if, you know, C store owners think about that when they look at this Dunkin Donuts product and
[00:53:12] Jon Landis: Yeah, I mean, the thing with it is they're just all different products, too. I mean, this Dunkin' Donuts iced coffee product, you know, it has like 40-something grams of sugar in it, which is completely different than the cup of drip coffee for a buck that's black.
[00:53:23] Ray Latif: Yeah. Who knows? All right. Aside from ice water, Landis, what are you drinking? Oh, it's sparkling water with a little bit of fresh grapefruit juice. Tell us more.
[00:53:33] John Craven: Look at this guy. I wanted to say recently I was drinking Castle Island beer at a Super Bowl party and night shift beer. So just keeping it local, keeping it classy. Can we do that? What beers are you drinking now? Yeah, I guess so. What cocktails? It's your world, John. Literally.
[00:53:52] Jon Landis: I think Landis just rewrote the rules of beer.
[00:53:55] John Craven: No, I rewrote the rules when I said I was drinking Jack Daniels at Madison Square Garden. That's true. I forgot about that. Yeah.
[00:54:01] Jon Landis: Okay. No more of this non-alcoholic crap in the next one for me.
[00:54:05] John Craven: I will come prepared next week, I promise, with my homework assignment completed. Or something weird like slush puppy.
[00:54:11] Ray Latif: Anyway. Once again, the BevNET podcast has gone off the rails. You guys still keep listening and you keep sending us some great feedback, so please continue to do so. Send us an email at podcast at BevNET.com. Love to hear from you and really helps us to kind of create some new ideas and new topics that we're going to cover. I mean, not create them, but, you know, approach those new topics. You're doing the work for us. You're doing the work for us. It makes life that much easier. All right. Until next time, this is Ray Latif signing off for John Craven, Jon Landis. Keep listening and we'll keep recording.
[00:54:47] John Craven: Thank you. Drink local beer.
