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[00:00:52] Ray Latif: Hello, friends. I'm Ray Latif, and you're tuned in to Taste Radio, the leading podcast for entrepreneurs, makers, and innovators in the food and beverage industry. The hardest part of building a consumer brand isn't the product. It's everything that comes after. Kaliwater co-founder Oliver Trevena knows this firsthand. In a candid conversation, Oliver, who launched the Cactus Water brand alongside fellow actor Vanessa Hudgens, pulls back the curtain on the less glamorous side of entrepreneurship. He speaks openly about the realities of fundraising, the challenges of securing and scaling distribution, and the emotional toll that building a brand can take. The episode offers a rare behind-the-scenes look at what it truly takes to build a consumer brand, one that stands on its own beyond the power of celebrity names. Hey folks, it's Ray with Taste Radio. Right now, I'm supremely honored to be sitting down with Oliver Trevena, who is the co-founder of Kaliwater. Oliver, it's great to see you.
[00:01:58] Vanessa Hudgens: You too, man. You too. Pleasure to be here.
[00:02:00] Ray Latif: The name of the brand is Kaliwater, but as you mentioned before you hopped on the mic, you're going to be splitting your time between California and Florida, becoming a Miami and LA man.
[00:02:09] Vanessa Hudgens: Yes, yeah, it's a big change. I've been in California in LA for 22 years. I've had an incredible time there and I still love it. But for me, you know, I like a challenge and I think Miami's got a lot of energy at the moment and a lot of buzz. And also Florida is going to be our next market for Kaliwater. So it makes a lot of sense.
[00:02:29] Ray Latif: I think a lot of people think LA and Miami are probably similar in terms of their vibes, maybe their weather, but I think they're very different actually in terms of their vibes and weather. Miami is much more humid. You go there in February, it could be like 85 degrees and the air is thick, whereas in LA it's a little bit more temperate. And then the vibe, I think when I went to Miami last year, it was the first time I'd ever been to the city and it felt a little bit more fast paced than I was expecting. I think LA in some ways is definitely more laid back. Do you feel that same way?
[00:02:59] Vanessa Hudgens: Yeah, I mean, the vibes are so different. I think they're total opposites. And for me, in all honesty, the heat is tough, you know? I'm British and an Irish background. So sometimes the days in Miami feel like an episode of Fear Factor. It's like pure survival for me. And I have a French bulldog. I think he feels the same. But yeah, I mean, look, I've been in Miami many, many times over the years. And I think it used to be like that, you know, it was that beach vibe. It was purely known for South Beach and just, you know, that kind of like rollerblading down the beach, kind of, I guess, a little bit like Venice, but then laying on the beach. You don't really get a lot of that in California, you know, beach days. People may go down to Malibu in the summer. But I think the recent years and the change in how they've got so much business to the state and the city of Miami has just changed everything. So it's brought that kind of city life into a beach vibe. And that's what makes it so much more fast paced than it used to be.
[00:03:56] Ray Latif: It's a fun city for sure. And it's a growing city. And I'm excited to see how it all develops, especially for CPG, because we went there in February of last year. It just felt like the community was thriving in Hungary.
[00:04:09] Vanessa Hudgens: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think for Cali War in particular, because it's an amazing hydration beverage, I think it's going to do really well in Miami, in Florida in general. And then there's just, yeah, there's just, I saw a friend of mine recently, Shelly Armistead, and she's opening like an amazing grocery store there, kind of like an air one buy, called Flow Grocer. So you're seeing all these things pop up that have an LA feel. And yet they're now happening in Miami. So I think soon enough, you're going to walk around Miami and be like, am I in LA? You know, like a lot of the same things that we see and now moving from California to LA or similar versions of them opening, you know?
[00:04:47] Ray Latif: Yeah. Well, Callie Water was born in LA. And it was born in L.A., probably not out of convenience. I think there's a reason and a time and a place for everything. And it just seemed like the timing was right, especially for folks who are in the business like you and your co-founder, Vanessa Hudgens, are. And by the business, I mean Hollywood. You're both actors. You've both been involved in the entertainment industry for some time. With celebrity, there's a give and a take, you know, for you, does the celebrity that's associated with your brand help it? Is it an advantage? Is it a distraction? Is it a little bit of both?
[00:05:22] Vanessa Hudgens: I mean, great question. I think it can be a bit of everything, right? I think for me, the real positive is she's like my best friend, right? We've known each other. We had a history of, you know, 15 plus years. And so there's no shocks. You know, it's not like you're, when you have a brand and you're like, oh my God, let's attach this person. You're on a journey together, right? It's like any relationship. And within a few months, you might be like, what have I done? Me and this celebrity just don't get along. And now I'm stuck with them with my brand. So, you know, there was an advantage there because we knew each other inside and out. She's massively passionate about the product herself. There's authenticity there. She didn't want to do this just because she wanted to release a brand, or be an entrepreneur, or be a founder. I think people rush into that so quickly. She wanted to do this because she believes in the product. Her herself, she had fainted a few times by literally dehydration. True story. There's people that just don't like drinking water. It's not a thought that they have, I should drink some water. And so for her, Calibre was the perfect kind of hydration angle that she enjoys. So she found herself wanting to drink five cans a day and was like, I'm obsessed. So I think with celebrity brands, there has to be clear communication from the get-go. And you have to really know who you're getting on the journey with. And there has to be authenticity. They have to really want to do this and really believe in the product. Because no one knows the journey. There's still an element of like, Some Brad Avery few, I'm actually trying to think of, but very few brands you launch and you just hit it, right? So it's going to be some blood, sweat, and tears. And they've got to believe in it. They've got to want to do it. You know, Vanessa, to this day, if I need her on a call, if I need her at Expo, you know, she's at Expo every single year behind the booth for 10 hours. That's what you need in a celebrity partner. And it's very rare. You know, as we know, I mean, you know, you go to Expo and You might see a celebrity's photo on the wall that they backed the brand but they're not there. Or they might show up for a quick photo moment and then get back in the car. That doesn't work for me. It still can work for brands when people just take a photo and do it. But I think this was going to be a journey and she's been part of that journey. So, you know, I've been lucky there. is probably the best way of putting it, because I've heard horror stories of other celebrity founders and things like that. And that goes the same with all of our investors. We've not been like the brand that's been like, hey, we'll give you this, we'll give you that, we'll pay you this, we'll give you shares. All the investors in our brand. have backed it. And they backed it, I would love to say because of me, it's not true. I am friends and a lot of these people I've worked with on movies, but they did it because of the product. They love the product. And so I think the key to anything is authenticity.
[00:08:08] Ray Latif: And I think the key to a successful CPG brand is that it's solving a problem that consumers have. Of course. Solving a real problem.
[00:08:16] Vanessa Hudgens: Yeah. I mean, for me personally, I mean, Vanessa, by the way, also loved this drink because she used to love Prickly Pear Margaritas. So there's a whole, you know, other reasons she used to love mixing this. For me, I was a big coconut water drinker and I realized, you know, through, I'm very into longevity and health and blood testing, that my sugar levels were very high. And, you know, I was drinking three coconut water a day and doing 60 grams of sugar, you know, good sugars, but you don't need that much sugar. And also I was in a place in life where because I love the health space, I was drinking a lot of drinks that I made myself think I enjoy. but I didn't really enjoy the taste of it. I've been a kombucha drinker for years, but if you put me on a lie detector machine and it said, do you like the taste of kombucha? And I said, yes, it would be like, eh. So I wanted to create a health drink, not just hydration. I mean, we have digestion benefits, skin benefits, the immunity, there's electrolytes, potassium. It's an all around great for you beverage. that you enjoy the taste of it. And that was the big thing that we wanted to do. And you know, Vanessa was a massive part of the taste. I used to be, I guess I don't have like a advanced palate or whatever people say, but I used to be like, this tastes great. She's like, no, there's something still off. And we would go back to the formulation team and make small adjustments. And we really wanted the product to be enjoyable, good for you, and stand alone without any bells and whistles. That's the other thing. Like this is a celebrity brand. But take away the celebrities. It doesn't matter. Like I genuinely believe in our product. And that's my favorite thing is when people taste it, and maybe they've heard nothing about it. They don't know about Vanessa. They don't know about Glen Powell. They don't know about, you know, any of the amazing people we have involved in the brand. They taste the drink and they love it. That to me is what success is, you know? But yes, your point, the market was, for me, I was like, look at what coconut water do. And we're half the calories and half the sugar. So I saw an opportunity there.
[00:10:10] Ray Latif: And to be clear, your water is sourced from the prickly pear, not from cactus.
[00:10:16] Vanessa Hudgens: Exactly. I didn't have a lot of knowledge around it. Obviously, I do now, but the prickly pear is the fruit on the end of the cactus. It's a remarkable fruit. It uses 80% less water than the crop itself. It's sustainable. It lives in so many different places and countries. When you think about, hopefully one day Kali water will be, right now we're in the US and Mexico, but if we expand, it makes it easier when there's a crop that's available worldwide. And yeah, the prickly pear fruit that lives on the end has this remarkable taste and benefit. I like to think cactus, as Hollywood says, is having its moment right now because I get sent articles all the time and there's now fashion brands using cactus as leather. There's obviously with prickly pear part, but the crop in general is being used for so much more than it ever got useful. And I think that's just because people are now like noticing it.
[00:11:10] Ray Latif: At the outset of your brand, I'm sure, you know, the reference to the, the, the reference point of coconut water was a good one. Cause you could say, well, this is a naturally sourced plant-based water that has a lot of the same benefits, but lower sugar. And in some cases I would say lower calorie, right. It's then coconut water, but it's still, and you described it at the outset and you still describe it as cactus water. And I wonder how many people. even took the second call, you know, read the email past the subject line and you said, Hey, we have cactus water. What do you feel like was going to be the initial response when you started talking about that, using that descriptor and, you know, what was the reality when you first came to market?
[00:11:53] Vanessa Hudgens: Yeah, it was a challenge. People had told me beverage was hard. I will say, definitely had a lot of optimism, maybe a bit of ego going into it, thinking, no, I know what I'm doing. It's hard. It was hard for many reasons, not just because of the drink, just because of the way beverage works in general. It's hard to find your team in any business. It's hard to, the whole distribution side didn't quite make sense to me at the time. I remember going to people and being like, hey, will you stock us? Yeah, we love it. We love what you're doing. Who's your distributor?" And then I'd be like, we don't have one. They're like, we'll come back when you do have one. And then I'll go to a distribution company and be like, can you bring us on? They're like, yeah, we love it. You need at least 50 stores. And you're like, this doesn't make sense. So there was a lot we had to work through in addition to just telling the story, you know, creating the awareness. Some people, by the way, even as of the last few weeks have said to me, you should call it Cactuswater. I just don't think that's possible because it's a market itself. I don't think you can call something a drink.
[00:12:55] Ray Latif: You wouldn't want to. A well-known investment banker in food and beverage once told me, never include the ingredient name in your brand name because it limits where you can go with the brand.
[00:13:06] Vanessa Hudgens: Well, you just answered my question there, right? You just saved me a bunch of times. Thank you.
[00:13:11] Ray Latif: I'm here for you, Oliver. There you go.
[00:13:14] Vanessa Hudgens: Look at that.
[00:13:17] Ray Latif: It definitely feels like today's consumer is looking for more than just refreshment. And so if you do have that functional benefit, it's going to entice someone to try, buy and hopefully buy again. The question I bring up is one that a lot of entrepreneurs ask me is, what should I lead with? You know, how much does functionality, how much does product benefit play into my message? And I think with Kaliwater, it makes a lot of sense to talk about the hydration benefit because that's an easy thing for people to understand.
[00:13:53] Vanessa Hudgens: Yeah, I think it's the easiest route. And it's also a necessity in everyone's life. If you're a child, you need hydration. If you're an 80-year-old, you need hydration. It's just something that is key. Dehydration is a real issue. So I think hydration really works because it's something that everyone needs. It's universal. Wherever you're from, whatever your age, you need it. And I think, as I say, we presented it in a way that's enjoyable to get hydration.
[00:14:23] Ray Latif: Customer acquisition can be quite expensive, certainly at the outset. Okay. All right. I guess that's that reaction tells you everything about how customer acquisition, how expensive it's been for Kaliwater. And you know what, it's true for every single brand, but has customer acquisition been. the most expensive part of this business for Kaliwater? Let me just ask, I mean, in terms of lessons learned over the course of the business, is customer acquisition the most expensive mistake that you've made? I mean, when you think about how you're spending your money and where you're spending it and how you're trying to get people to buy into what you're selling, sometimes you can spend a lot of money for very little result.
[00:15:08] Vanessa Hudgens: Yeah, I would say right now I'm a lot more involved than I've ever been in the company. And that's not from saying that I didn't care or I wasn't involved. I was just always like, you know, I come from a soccer background. I'm a good striker. Some of my friends would tell you different, but I believe I'm a good striker. I was never a player that was like, let's learn how to defend. Or, you know, I do a few games as goalkeeper. So I kind of use that in business a lot, and I'm like about building a team. But the last few months, because of the, you know, I would say the excitement, the fear, the everything around the company as it grows, I've just got in the trenches a lot more. And when I see, I guess, the learnings, I think in beverage, as you just said, you try a lot of things too. You know, you have to take some shots, you have to see what works. You know, as far as ads and digital media, it's so not my world. I struggle to even do my own Instagram very well. So you build a team, you have agencies, you put trust in them. And I think there's a lot of that there. It's just a gamble. The same as by the way, even employees. It's like, you don't know, you know, and we don't have a, we don't have a headquarters. So there's, there's just such an element of hoping that people are doing the best they can and hoping that people care about the brand as much as you do. And I don't think it's exclusive to us. It's just reality that we live in that it's, it's, you know, it's hard to find your kind of ride-or-die family and business. As far as learnings, yeah, acquisition cost is tough. I think we have an advantage there. That's where the celebrity does come into play, when they're pushing it and they're posting about it and it's costing us zero dollars. there's a real advantage there. So we tap into that as much as possible. And definitely this year, we have some really exciting things that we're about to announce and add. And one person in particular who I am so, so excited about is a dear friend of mine, and I would say arguably one of the best musicians on the planet right now. That's all I'll say, because I will get in trouble if I say anything more. That's the fun. That's how we can do things without spending money. But at the same time, of course, there's things that change. There's the algorithms of Instagram and all these things that have changed so much, not just for a brand, for personalities in general. You look at people's engagement. It's gone down. You look at how hard it is to get a brand ad seeing them because it's so controlled and so constructed and people are trying to keep you there or move you to TikTok. I think there's so much that I don't understand that I know has changed over the last few years that definitely plays a part in making it harder to be seen and to get that customer acquisition than it used to be.
[00:17:50] Oliver Trevena: Do you want more repeat buyers on Amazon? Well, this free resource in collaboration with Straight Up Growth will help your brand turn first-time buyers into long-term subscribers. Download Winning the Repeat Purchase Game on Amazon now at Taste Radio.com slash SUG. That's Taste Radio.com slash S-U-G to start building retention-driven growth for your brand on Amazon. Scaling a beverage brand into major retail comes down to operational readiness. From packaging lead times to co-manufacturing strategy, the details can make or break a launch. In a new ebook in collaboration with Octopi and Asahi Beer USA, industry leaders share what they've learned in helping brands scale. Download it now at Taste Radio.com slash octopi. If you're developing a cannabis beverage, formulation choices matter, especially early on. Source Technology's free guide shares practical insights on stability, dosing, and scale-ready development. Download the ins and outs of creating a cannabis beverage today at Taste Radio.com slash cannabis.
[00:18:59] Ray Latif: I'm really glad that you described the hiring of outside design agencies and staffing your company as sometimes a bit of a gamble and sometimes something that isn't necessarily as cut and dry as it might seem. I talked to a lot of founders who really praise their ability to build a strong team, or at least praise the fact that they have a strong team. But it's not easy, and you don't always know, and sometimes you do have to roll the dice, and it's not always going to work out. And I really appreciate you, Oliver, for saying that, because The glamorous part of CPG is always, you always see it on LinkedIn or in some cases on Instagram, but it's not easy. And you do have to take a lot of risks and it does cost a lot of money. And on that latter point, when it costs a lot of money, you know, raising dollars. is something that never ends for a founder, seemingly never ends. Have you been able to raise money a little bit more effectively because you have celebrity partners or, you know, how much of it has to do with the development of the brand? And I know it's an easy answer is to say both, but does one really stand out more than the other for investors?
[00:20:23] Vanessa Hudgens: Yeah, I guess just to answer your first point, Ray, about the challenges. I've been through a lot in my life, and the entertainment industry is glamorous as it looks. It's tough, the ups and downs, the one minute you think you've made it, the next minute you haven't. Being a founder, this has put me on the floor at times. There's been tears. There's been so much I don't know, so much I've had to learn. It's without a doubt been the hardest thing I've gone through. You know, it looks always fun from the outside because you kind of have to, right? It's like, you know, we love our product. We smile about our product. Behind the scenes, wow. You know, friends come to me now and they're like, I want to start a brand. I want to do this. And I'm very transparent. I'm like, just be ready. You know, I really hope it just goes. I wish nothing more for you. But it ain't always that journey. It's tough. It's really, really tough. And to your point, then on fundraising, it's tough as well, because you're also dealing with so many outside aspects that you can't control, like the economy. If the economy tanks, Last thing people are going to do is use extra money to invest in a vision or a company that just because you believe in it, it's harder to get them to believe in it when their business manager is now saying, hold on to your cash, don't spend anything. You're dealing with a lot of things externally that you have no control over. CPG in particular, how many times I've gone to take a meeting and they've had the call and they're like, look, we love your product. We love what you're doing, but we are not touching beverage. Or we just had a beverage company go under two weeks ago. There's so much you can't control. So yeah, it's hard. It's hard. I mean, we've raised money. We've been lucky with... I don't know if lucky is the right word. As I say, it comes down to the product. But some of the people that have invested in our company and backed our company, from athletes to musicians to actors to really influential businessmen, that's been incredible. But it doesn't change. Because of so much of raising capital, it's like swings and roundabouts. you have to just, you kiss a lot of frogs. I don't know why that came to mind, but that's just the truth. But then we have the, I guess we're being completely transparent on this interview, then you have the problem that when you do have a celebrity attached to the brand, and I'm not talking about me, I'm talking about Vanessa, you have people that are like, hey, saw your deck, I can't wait to invest, we're 100% in. But my daughter would love a video from Vanessa. Can we get a video from Vanessa? And I make so many of those mistakes. Or, you know, but my son runs the fund and he wondered if he could do a lunch with you and Vanessa just to talk through some more details. I would say 99.9% of the time, actually 100% of the time, whenever there's been that start, they've never invested. There's always been an excuse at the end of it, but they got their photo, they got their selfie, and that was posted on social media. It's tough. And then the sad thing, not the sad thing, I love what I do, the tough thing is that you can't then use that mindset the next day. Because the next day, the guy that maybe you think is going to be a waste of time or you don't want to meet or you know whatever reason you could go and sit down with it could be the easiest 250k you've raised so it's just the constant
[00:23:46] Ray Latif: I love that. And, and thank you so much for sharing that and being so transparent about that, because it did answer my question about whether it's the celebrity or the traction the brand is having as to what investors really want to see and why they fund your business. It's very much the latter.
[00:24:05] Vanessa Hudgens: Sorry, I went off on that, right? No, no, no. I went a different answer. But I will just say, to put a pin in that, it's very rarely the celebrity. The celebrity might open the door, but most people now, especially in the business of beverage, because of the, you know, I sometimes compare movies and beverage, very similar, because everyone's had a bad movie investment, and everyone's had a bad beverage investment. So the celebrity would get you in the door and get you the conversation, then they're gonna look under the hood. You know, so your business has to back it up. I think in other areas, you can do that. You can get away with it, especially innovative areas where they've got nothing to really compare it to. You know, like if you're trying to think of something off the top of my head, but if you're launching a toilet paper company, not many people have probably invested in a toilet paper company or lost money. So there's an element of that that, you know, they're like, you know what, I like this. I'm down to take the risk. beverage comes with a reputation as well, you know, and a history and a past doesn't mean it's negative because then you look like you look at a poppy boom, you know, that's great shows you what can be done. But yeah, it's a journey.
[00:25:10] Ray Latif: It is. And I think for every poppy or buy or vitamin water or body armor, you know, there's a thousand other brands that don't make it probably ten times that number. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, the rewards can be extraordinary. And I think everyone has to just temper their expectations, but still has to have a bullseye, still has to have that North Star as to why I'm doing this. If you, you know, brass tacks, if you had to be asked, you know, what do I want to see in five years as a business, five years from now, what does winning look like for Callie water? How would you answer that?
[00:25:49] Vanessa Hudgens: I would like us to be, I mean, it's maybe a, an obvious and a big vision, but I'd love us to be a household name. You know, like when I think of a household name in the, in the, in the health space, you know, in the, in the functional beverage, because for me, when I was growing up, Pepsi and Coca-Cola was just like something that just existed in your heart. And it was an experience that the family would enjoy. You know, I'm one of four boys, I have three older brothers, and my mom would come home with a 12 pack of Coca-Cola, and I would drink it, my older brothers would drink it, my dad would pour it over his whiskey, you know, and my mom would enjoy it. It was a household name. wasn't good for us, it wasn't good for you. I would like us to be that because I think we have that opportunity to cover such a range of the family. You can have your mum drinking it after a yoga class. You can have the newborn drinking it. Vanessa's kids, it's literally like it's so cute. That little boy, it's all he asks for. He's like, where's my Callie? And so there's an opportunity there to do something different that I don't think has been done as a health beverage. I think there's a very niche market for each brand, which some people say is smart and you should go after, but I just believe we can be so much bigger than that. So that's kind of my five-year point. And I would just love to keep growing. If you would have asked me that day one, I would have been like, multi-billion dollar company, world domination. And then you get a reality check and you're like, I just want this to succeed. And it will succeed and it should succeed. And I would like to keep growing. That's it.
[00:27:17] Ray Latif: I'm excited for the day and I don't know if this is ever going to happen, but when there's a Cali Cola, so that way you have your 12 pack of Coca-Cola. It's not a bad idea, right? They got some Cali Cola instead. Oliver, this has been such a great conversation. Thank you so much for taking the time. I'm really excited for you and your team. I think Cali Water has been on a journey and you're evolving, you're growing and you're adapting to this ever-changing world that we live in, that's food and beverage. And I think you're on the right track. And I'm excited to hear about all the things that are happening in 2026 and beyond.
[00:27:53] Vanessa Hudgens: Thank you, Barlan. Truly appreciate the support.
[00:27:55] Ray Latif: Thank you. That brings us to the end of this episode of Taste Radio. Thank you so much for listening. Taste Radio is a production of BevNET.com, Incorporated. Our audio engineer for Taste Radio is Joe Cracci. Our technical director is Joshua Pratt, and our video editor is Ryan Galang. Our social marketing manager is Amanda Smerlinski, and our designer is Amanda Huang. Just a reminder, if you like what you hear on Taste Radio, please share the podcast with friends and colleagues. And of course, we would love it if you could review us on the Apple Podcasts app or your listening platform of choice. Check us out on Instagram. Our handle is bevnettasteradio. As always, for questions, comments, ideas for future podcasts, please send us an email to ask at Taste Radio.com. On behalf of the entire Taste Radio team, thank you for listening. And we'll talk to you next time. you
