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[00:00:52] Ray Latif: Hello, and thanks for tuning into Taste Radio, the number one podcast for anyone building a business in food or beverage. I'm Ray Latif, the editor and producer of Taste Radio, and I'm joined by my co-hosts, John Craven, Jacqui Brugliera, and Mike Schneider. In this episode, we return to an instant classic networking event hosted by Naturally San Diego earlier this month. I sit down with beverage industry veteran Kevin Klock, who's back in the game with his moringa-infused brand, Orange Toucan, and Keegan Fong, founder of Woon. a modern CPG brand inspired by his family's beloved Chinese restaurants. I didn't get to try any Woon, but supposedly their restaurants are pretty damn awesome. And I would love to visit them. They're in LA. I think both of them are in LA. We gotta make this happen. We're gonna make it happen.
[00:01:44] John Craven: Press junk it. Is that a thing anymore? 2025?
[00:01:47] Ray Latif: I don't think they're going to pay for us to go out there. Oh well. We're looking for any excuse to get out of here. Jackie, not Too Much. But in the Boston area, we were hit with a major snowstorm. I think we got 20 inches, which is not fun. Everyone's been digging out for the past two days. So I figure, why don't we just take a road trip down south? How about South Florida? How's that sound to you, Mike?
[00:02:07] John Craven: I mean, I'm not driving. Yeah, you're flying, right? I'm pretty happy about the snow, because I still need to cool off after the United win over Arsenal. OK, you want to go there, huh? I already went there. All right, all right. You guys watched the Patriots game, too? Yeah, that was crazy.
[00:02:20] Ray Latif: Yeah, well, I've been on kind of a high, because yes, United did beat Arsenal in another instant classic. It was a really great game. No, that was a great game, great goals by United.
[00:02:30] John Craven: They took their chance. They're doing all the right things right now, and it shows.
[00:02:35] Ray Latif: Yeah, I'm not gloating. you brought it up. No, it's true though. To all United fans who are listening out there, I'm glad we're in the midst of a nice week because anytime United wins, it's like the greatest thing that has ever happened. Three more wins for a special haircut. Exactly, exactly. Now, I mentioned we're going to head down to South Florida, specifically to Miami. We're going to be hosting yet another meetup. in that amazing city, this being the first of 2026. We have seven scheduled for this year in South Florida will be our first stop. February 18th, that's a Wednesday. The live podcast and networking event is going to be held at Casa La. which is in the city's Wynwood neighborhood. We're gonna be there from five to 7.30 p.m. Industry networking, adult and non-alco-bevs, Mike. But of course, Mike, John, and I will be there to mingle and to muse. Jackie is unable to come because she's hiking Everest, is that right? That's why you can't come?
[00:03:31] John Craven: Yes, yes, currently training, actually, for Everest.
[00:03:34] Ray Latif: Yes, and you don't really hike Everest, by the way, folks.
[00:03:37] John Craven: No, just casually on a weekend, just head on over.
[00:03:40] Ray Latif: Day tripper. Once again, Wednesday, February 18th, we encourage you to BYOS. What does that mean? It means bring your own samples. So if you are a founder, you're an operator, you're someone who works for a CPG company, please bring samples of your products because we want to try them. And of course, other attendees want to as well. So if you want to attend, you're more than welcome to just to show up. But we would prefer, please, if you could register, please do so at Taste Radio.com slash events slash Miami. But I think we can shorten that. We'll probably shorten that to Taste Radio.com slash Miami.
[00:04:14] John Craven: No, no, not happening. It's just Taste Radio.com slash events slash Miami.
[00:04:19] Ray Latif: Okay, obviously we need the dot-com on there. Okay. Also, huge thank you to our partners for the event itself. Obviously, Casa La. We also have Vibrant Ingredients and Matriarch Wealth Management partnering up with us for Miami. So thank you Too Much to all of those amazing companies and firms. Casa La owned by AB InBev too.
[00:04:43] John Craven: I don't know. Thank you to them as well.
[00:04:44] Ray Latif: Yes, thank you to them as well. If you're listening and you're interested in partnering with us for the Miami event or any of the other six meetups we're hosting this year, which include New York, Austin, Chicago, San Diego, San Francisco and London, Just let us know. We would love your support. We would love to host you for an interview and help you get the word out about what you're doing in this amazing industry of food and beverage. So just send us an email. You can reach us at askattasteradio.com. You can email me directly, rlatif at BevNET.com as well. So, Madonna. I'm gonna go there. Yeah, I'm just gonna put that out there. Madonna. Yeah. I really haven't listened Too Much Madonna music in a while. So I'm kind of an old-school Madonna fan. 80s, some 90s, but mostly 80s. I could see you voguing. Vogue? I'm not... Come on, let's see it.
[00:05:35] John Craven: We need an AI video of that.
[00:05:37] Ray Latif: No, we have videos of Ray.
[00:05:40] John Craven: I ban those. Ray is a material girl. I love material.
[00:05:43] Ray Latif: That's a great song.
[00:05:44] John Craven: I would settle for any of you, Voguing.
[00:05:46] Ray Latif: Okay, we'll work on that. I never really loved the song Papa Don't Preach, but it's a good song. I like that song.
[00:05:53] John Craven: Very popular song.
[00:05:56] Ray Latif: Weird song, but good song. I think CPG companies are heeding that message about not preaching. I just feel like there's a lot less specific marketing about not drinking alcohol, particularly for this month itself. And companies are trying to find new ways to communicate moderation, self-guidance, and optionality when it comes to consumption and lifestyle habits.
[00:06:16] John Craven: I mean, I think the need for the companies making the products to be educators of things like Dry January or sobriety is becoming less and less. I mean, it really probably isn't even necessary at this point, although Dry January certainly presents an opportunity for awareness or, you know, new products and whatnot from companies that are producing adult non-alcoholic beverages. So, but very different than a couple of years ago where I think, yeah, some brands were trying really, really hard to get signal over Dry January, so. It's still a thing. We're seeing companies just treat it differently. They're saying, who cares about Dry January instead of, as John said, just really leaning into it. Yeah, I think consumers are more focused on balance. I think a lot of consumers are burnt out on, like, bad. You know, there's been Too Much advertising about sugar's bad, fat's bad, alcohol's bad. And I think people just want to be able to be more fluid in their decisions. So why not Dry January? You know, why not just make better decisions? You're seeing people drink less alcohol, but still drink alcohol. You're seeing people be flexitarians because You know, they just want more flexibility in what they're consuming. You know what really did not help Dry January? What's that? In the Boston area, 20 inches of snow. And Patriots going to the Super Bowl, but anyway. Dry January, you can drink for that. No, I mean, I don't know. I think it's one of those things where it's kind of like there's some people who like, if you belong to a gym, it's like loaded with people in January who were like, I'm going to turn over a new leaf, try something, whatever, get healthy to start the year. I think that's kind of where Dry January is at too, which, you know, the question with it is obviously with the gym thing, there's like a lot of people that trail off and, you know, do people trail off or are they looking at it as, you know, lifestyle change or just something of, you know, maybe they'll moderate once in a while, but yeah, it's definitely like a different stage at this point. Yeah, I think Dry January also aligned a lot with New Year's resolutions. And I've personally seen a lot of people maybe going away from resolutions and just being like, what do I want to do generally in my life that is attainable, not something that I'm just going to do for a couple of weeks and then get bummed that I didn't continue. And part of this is just the fact that people are a lot more in touch with their emotions and their goals, going to therapy, talking about it with everybody that will listen. And so, you know, goal setting goes right along with that. So it's just a part of people's lives now.
[00:08:53] Ray Latif: I think that companies are recognizing everything that you guys just mentioned and are tailoring new marketing initiatives to meet that consumer with whatever it is they're experiencing at this point in their lives. Recess, the brand of modern beverages, including their Mood line of beverages, which are infused with magnesium intended to help you chill or relax or what have you. They also market a great line of mocktails. They launched a new campaign earlier this month in which they just put out their perfection is a terrible New Year's resolution. And they talk about how January doesn't need a new you, just a more balanced one. And the last part of the message is, a drink, meaning recess, for people tired of pretending January changes everything, which I think is really the, you know, the truth here that no one has really wanted to say out loud, but people feel more comfortable saying that.
[00:09:53] John Craven: Well said, recess. That was much better than I said it.
[00:09:56] Ray Latif: Yeah. And so, you know, Ben Whitty, who's the founder and CEO, spoke about this in a story written by our dear friend and colleague Martín Caballero. He said, it's always been my view of recess that we are one of you, not above you. We're not trying to speak down to you. And I think people connected with that idea because it's representative of reality. I do think alcohol serves a purpose in people's lives. And I think the whole conversation about the death of alcohol, even amongst Gen Z, is dramatically overstated, which I think he's hit the nail on the head on that one, in my opinion. I also thought Athletic Brewing did a really good job with their campaign where they used to say, you know, do a Dry January or whatever it was. And they crossed out the word dry and inserted the word athletic. And I think it's really more about hey, try to be a better you or a better version or a healthier version of you than like a different version of you that didn't exist before January. And it speaks to athletics emphasis on helping people live better lives throughout the year versus just one month. Because as we know, so many people start out doing January and having an idea of what they want to accomplish from a lifestyle or wellness goals. And then they end up stopping mid month. or doing it for a month and then going and, you know, engorging on food or alcohol once February 1st begins. Lastly, I had an opportunity to speak with the brilliant Amy Taylor, who's the CEO of Zevia. We featured that episode or featured that interview in an episode that was published on Tuesday of this week. Folks who know Amy know that she was a long-time marketing executive and president of Red Bull North America for almost two decades. She was with the company almost as soon as they came to the United States. Now she's the CEO of Zevia, which is a brand of modern sodas that is sweetened with stevia. Now, I know people have preconceived notions about Stevia and Zevia, but in this interview, you'll understand why you might want to give it another shot. But their campaign this year was titled Zetox, and they were trying to get people to detox from their high-calorie, high-sugar sodas. And I love this. I love this, this headline, or at least this tagline, quit soda with soda. So they're not telling you don't drink soda. They're just saying drink a better version of soda. And one of the most poignant moments in the interview with Amy was when she said, don't Lecture Me consumer. One of the reasons we were so specific about what we put on our package is that we're going to say what we are on our package. If an interested consumer wants to go deeper, they can double click on our website. But beyond that, the most credible form of communication is other people talking about us. In other words, the more you talk about yourself as one thing or the other, the more people are going to tune out, unless it's someone they trust. People don't necessarily trust brands. We always talk about this. How do you build trust with a consumer? you build trust by other people telling you about why they should like this product or why they might take a second chance or a second look at a brand like Zevia.
[00:13:03] John Craven: I like them telling you what it is as well because there's Too Much this isn't, this isn't in marketing right now that I think we've forgotten to really be able to explain what we do simply and that's the key.
[00:13:17] Ray Latif: Yeah, I think you really nailed it there, Mike. There's Too Much of what we are not or what we don't have, but what are you? I mean, this is a real big problem in politics, right? I mean, everyone always talks about, well, that guy's doing that or this person's doing that. And so I was like, well, what are you doing? Right? I mean, I mean, that is an issue for sure. That's one of the, one of a few issues that are happening in modern American politics.
[00:13:39] John Craven: But look, I think it, it's pretty hard to really truly do that in kind of like an absolutist way though. Like Zevia still will call itself zero calories. Right. So like you're kind of doing it right there. And, you know, I agree like for marketing copy, like talking about who you are versus what you aren't is good. But yeah, I think that's a real challenge right now for brands across a lot of different categories. How so? I mean... Just that it can't truly be like a positive, like this is what we are, and completely avoiding what you aren't.
[00:14:15] Ray Latif: Here's what I'll say, and we've talked about this ad nauseum on the podcast, but I'll bring it up one more time. Plant-based meat, right? Plant-based meat often talks about what they're not, when they're not animal-based protein. But what are you? And I think once they get into the, what are you? What are your ingredients? What do you, what comprises this quote unquote meat that you're selling? That's where they really run into trouble. It's hard because they always have to compare themselves to the texture or the taste of animal-based protein. And once you start digging in a little bit, you're like, okay, well, if it tastes like this and the texture is like this, but it has 18 times the number of ingredients, I'm a little wary of that. So I think that's what you were kind of referring to.
[00:15:02] John Craven: Another important thing to do is to not throw the kitchen sink at your marketing, too, because if you try to talk about all the things that your beverage is or your food is on front of pack, well, you're going to end up with an eye chart. And so it's important to make decisions, which I think is another thing they're trying to do here.
[00:15:21] Ray Latif: I would advise folks to continue thinking about moderation and giving the consumer sort of self-determinism in how they think about and use your product. And certainly we're seeing a lot of that in terms of user-generated content on social media and how that is enhancing and informing marketing campaigns for CPG companies. So I imagine in 2026, we'll continue to see a lot more of this. Let's help the consumer make a good informed decision versus telling them what to do. Obviously, Dry January is an opportunity for a lot of folks to try new non-alcoholic products that they may not have considered in the past. And I, ironically, visited the Mohegan Sun Wine and Food Fest this past weekend. It is what you might expect it to be. It is a festival, three-day festival, where they feature all kinds of wines from around the world. They feature celebrity chefs who are there cooking up delicious foods. This could be branded the Ray LaTee Festival. I was there for a handful of hours on Done Dry, so I wasn't there very long. But during the grand tasting part of this event, in addition to all the wine producers they have at this tasting, they had a number of distilleries and breweries that were marketing their products. And so there's a local company here in the Boston area known as Boldy Boy, Boldy Boy Distillers. If you recall, we sat down with the founders a few years ago at their location in New Market Square in Boston. So they have some fantastic whiskeys. They make a great bourbon. They also make some great bottled cocktails. They have a Negroni and a Manhattan that are fantastic. They recently introduced some spirit-free cocktails because I think they recognize that not everyone is going to want to drink bourbon and Negronis all the time. So they have two varieties. These are called Intermezzo. Great name, right? Sure. Intermezzo. So they have an Alpine Highball and they have a Sunset Spritz. Let's start with the Alpine Highball, which is inspired by the flavors of Alpine Amaro and crafted without the buzz for those in-between moments. And if you notice on the can, which is beautifully designed, they have a zebra on the lower right-hand corner of the label. Why? Zebra striping, right? Does everyone know what zebra striping is? Yes, I do. Jackie, you look confused.
[00:17:54] John Craven: Is that when you alternate drinks?
[00:17:55] Ray Latif: Yes. You go in between. Alcohol, no alcohol. Yeah. Alcohol, no alcohol. All right. So that's darker than I thought it was going to be, the Sailpon one. It's not cold. Sorry, guys.
[00:18:05] John Craven: It's okay.
[00:18:06] Ray Latif: All right, that's for Mr. Craven. That's over the laptop. Pretty solid. That's very tasty. Yeah, it's good stuff. I bet it'd even be better really cold, but...
[00:18:20] John Craven: Or the splash of booze.
[00:18:25] Ray Latif: Wow. Okay. Let's try this sunset spritz, which is inspired by coastal Italian libations and crafted again without the buzz for those in between moments. All right. I like the way that sits with you after you've already sipped it. Yeah, this feels very much like a Campari spritz or an Aperol spritz.
[00:18:44] John Craven: That's what it looks like, I assume. It certainly looks like one. Just a scotch. That's good.
[00:18:48] Ray Latif: You don't want to get all banged up? No, I got to drive home. Okay, well done.
[00:18:51] John Craven: I think I like the first one better, but that's solid too.
[00:18:55] Ray Latif: I think I like the Sunset better, but the first... They're both good. Yeah, the first one is definitely a different type of cocktail. I don't know what the comparison would be, what the comparable cocktail would be for the Alpine.
[00:19:05] John Craven: Some sort of other spritz, I don't know. Okay.
[00:19:07] Ray Latif: Yuko Spritz? I don't know, I'm just throwing out names here.
[00:19:09] John Craven: Weird Cola vibe going on.
[00:19:10] Ray Latif: Bully Boy Distillers, fantastic brand. And so I also learned that they're going to bring more of these to market, as well as their own canned cocktails that we'll be seeing in the months to come.
[00:19:24] John Craven: I've got a product. I like it already. It's called pretentious coffee with a tagline of probably too good for you. I mean, I don't know. That's kind of preachy, right?
[00:19:35] Ad Read: Yeah.
[00:19:36] John Craven: We'll have to have a, I don't know, barista test after here. It's in tennis ball cans. I like it. Yeah, it feels like a tennis ball can. Are those beans? It's coffee beans in a, I don't know, it kind of has the footprint of like a 19.2. a Pringles can. Wow. Yeah. It popped open. Maybe we had it too long. I don't know. Okay. I'm going to, I'm going to explain. I'm going to explain to listeners exactly what just happened. Yeah, that was wild.
[00:20:12] Ray Latif: No, like, okay. So John popped open a can.
[00:20:14] John Craven: I'm sure you're supposed to slowly open it and I just
[00:20:17] Ray Latif: yanked it like so did you know do you recall blue bottle had a similar it says roasted to perfection don't screw it up and look what you just did you recall blue bottle had a had a similar package where they sealed their beans in a can just like that And as soon as it was on the market, it was off the market. And I wonder if that's the reason why. I mean, because that's why when you buy coffee beans, they have that little vent ventilation thing on the front of the bag.
[00:20:44] John Craven: Yeah, and those little seals are like crowned.
[00:20:47] Ray Latif: Yeah, there's no ventilation here, hence the explosion. Well, I don't know. It smells really good. But it almost killed you.
[00:20:55] John Craven: It didn't almost kill me. I really like the idea of artisanal nihilism. That's pretty great on the can here. And I'm excited for this one to blow up too. So yeah, we're going to have a Cortado test. Real quick, what are the two SKUs we have here? Oh, Reserve. And this is just whole bean coffee and that one's Reserve?
[00:21:14] Ray Latif: Yeah.
[00:21:14] John Craven: All right.
[00:21:14] Ray Latif: Pretentious Coffee. And also, it's an interesting packaging format. I do want to hear from the founders about how you should open it without
[00:21:21] John Craven: Let's put the lid back on, and let's try it later. Okay. About the explosion. Moving on to a snack product. Okay. Fresh from the mailbag here, we have Muncha's Tortilla Chips with Beef Tallow. Oh, yeah. What's the name of the brand? Muncha's.
[00:21:35] Ray Latif: Get in.
[00:21:35] John Craven: How do you spell it? M-A-N-C-H-A-S.
[00:21:38] Ray Latif: Muncha's. Muncha's. Okay.
[00:21:39] John Craven: Let's see here. Anyone?
[00:21:41] Ray Latif: Muncha's.
[00:21:41] John Craven: Anyone? Yes, yes, please. Beef Tallow.
[00:21:43] Ray Latif: Okay, so these are tortilla chips. Oh, look at that. I like the design there. It's a little throwback-ish. It looks like a what I would describe as a cowgirl riding giraffe slash horse.
[00:21:57] John Craven: Weird. Interesting. That is accurate. It's supposed to be a horse, but it does look giraffe-y. I mean, definitely tastes like a tortilla chip with beef tallow. I did try one potato chip one time with beef tallow, and it's just, the beef tallow really is a very strong flavor.
[00:22:15] Ad Read: It's assertive.
[00:22:15] John Craven: It's assertive. Yeah.
[00:22:18] Ray Latif: Yeah. I like this. Can we talk about beef tallow for a second? Yeah, go ahead. Are you going to start rubbing it off? Only a second. Are you going to start rubbing it onto your face? No, I'm good. I know beef tallow has been a hot ingredient of late, particularly for fried products, potato chips, tortilla chips, what have you. You know, it's used a lot in London or in England when they're making fried fish. I think that's the traditional way of frying fish is using beef tallow. I think for as much enthusiasm as there is for the ingredient in our industry, I think there's going to be a massive education hurdle for this to become a mainstream thing. You know, we're already seeing it pop up in frozen foods, French fries. You know, Jesse and Ben's is a good example of a frozen French fry brand that uses beef tallow for some of their products. Again, especially with all the maha stuff going on, I almost feel like it's going to be kind of divisive, beef tallow. So I would caution brands that are really embracing this ingredient before they go too deep. It's definitely a test and learn kind of thing for me.
[00:23:19] John Craven: It is. I mean, I think if I were giving constructive feedback to manchas, I think there are two things that stand out for me. One is the actual tortilla chip isn't like the fanciest tortilla chip I've ever had. And two is just the size of the bag seems really, really small relative to like your standard giant ass bag of tortilla chips. It's packed.
[00:23:40] Ray Latif: It's a packed bag. It is. And it's not, you know, a lot of tortilla chips come in those bags. A hundred percent. Tons of air.
[00:23:45] John Craven: I think that's just one of those things that from a shelf presence perspective. I think is, you know, it's kind of like a proven thing in the chip category, so. The chips are kind of mini, but they're still good dipping chips. Yeah, definitely would be good dipping chips. I appreciate that. And because they're thick enough.
[00:24:02] Ray Latif: Yeah. At this point, it very much feels like a specialty food brand, a brand that you would definitely see in Erewhon. I think as they continue to think about scaling, they may have to move into a different size package for sure.
[00:24:13] John Craven: They might have to think about their giraffe horse. It's a cute photo.
[00:24:17] Ray Latif: I mean like it's a great art. How would you describe that art? It's like caricature art kind of thing?
[00:24:21] John Craven: Yeah, character art. It's artisanal character art. I like it.
[00:24:25] Ray Latif: Okay, fair enough. Jackie, what do you got over there? You got all kinds of like... I have a couple things. What is that? Oh, I saw those in the office. Yeah.
[00:24:32] John Craven: Yeah, so these guys were at Fancy Fair called Long Weekend and they are a line of instant premium instant soup so all the ingredients are freeze-dried you just add hot water and then you have a delicious soup and they have carrot ginger they have minestrone we got Thai coconut curry and then we also have tomato bisque and I tried these at the show and they were really, really good. The flavor was definitely, you know, nuanced and complex and very low calorie too. Like a whole thing of the Thai curry is only 200 calories and everything else looks good on the ingredient panel too. I'm really liking, you know, just dehydrated freeze dried products these days. I think like they've been really tasty, like the cumin club, they have really good products too. Oh yeah, that's phenomenal. You just add water and it's like, wow, this is delicious. So yeah. And it's shelf stable. So. Can we talk about the cumin club for a second? I mean, well, I grabbed those, by the way. When I saw 12 to 16 inches of snow coming, I grabbed the long weekend, because long weekend coming, obviously, so. Oh, I just got that. Cumin club, I used to kind of like, you know, the Trader Joe's packs of dahl and masala.
[00:25:52] Ray Latif: That are not freeze-dried or dehydrated. Right, that are not freeze-dried.
[00:25:55] John Craven: And now that I've had cumin club, I can't even eat those anymore. Because cumin club is so good. It's so good. And it's so simple. Like, you just add water, and in a couple minutes, you have something that tastes delicious.
[00:26:06] Ray Latif: In a couple minutes, you're at the shum. We featured cumin club in a recent episode of Elevator Talk that was published on January 21st. Brilliant episode. I highly recommend you check it out. It was co-hosted by our dear friend Caroline Grace of Product and Prosper. And we also featured a brand called Green and Sunny and Shuka Sauce. which everyone knows, Sugar Sauce, if you attended Nosh Live. What an episode. Yeah, it really is a great one. And just a pitch for Elevator Talk, if you're interested in participating in a future episode of that show, just let us know, or you can head to tasteredo.com, drop down menu, you'll see a tab that says Elevator Talk and how to apply.
[00:26:49] John Craven: If this was a video show, we'd definitely have Joe go back to when John opened the can and have it blow up again.
[00:26:54] Ray Latif: Why are we coming back to that? That was very scary, actually. I was not prepared for that. It was awesome. Yeah, it was awesome. Oh, geez.
[00:27:03] John Craven: Mike's got a shot. I've got a shot today with an interesting name. It's Boop, B-O-O-P, which is pretty close to another word. So it opens up some really great potential, you know, taglines like, I booped today, or I booped myself. What's the function?
[00:27:20] Ray Latif: You can boop someone. It's clearly not for refreshment. What is it for? It's a protein shot. Oh, a protein shot. It's awesome, by the way.
[00:27:25] John Craven: This is Clementine, 15 grams of protein from Whey. Yeah, nice little shot.
[00:27:31] Ray Latif: It's 70 calories. That looked like the whey was on the top there. I shook it up. How much protein? How many grams of protein in it?
[00:27:37] John Craven: It is, I mean, it's pretty hard to get past the whey because it's only a small three ounce shot, but 15 grams of protein, 70 calories and tasty flavor. You should hide those in the office and boop people like people ice people. I just keep booping myself. I also have another product here called chili water. John has it as well. Can of water. Can of water.
[00:27:58] Ray Latif: And it's not chili as in spicy. It's C-H-I-L-O-Y.
[00:28:02] John Craven: I was asking Colin about that too. There's a few interesting things here that causes you to ask questions about chili water.
[00:28:09] Ray Latif: First of all, is it spicy? Second of all, what if it's not cold? Is it one of those cans that turns blue when it's just the right temperature like those beer cans do? No. No, it's just good water. Okay.
[00:28:20] John Craven: With 6.4 to 6.6 pH.
[00:28:22] Ray Latif: Interesting. The top of the can asks the consumer, is one can enough? I don't think so. Is that trademarked? It is. I love it. Yeah. Lastly, I want to highlight a brand we always talk about on the show, which is Like Air. Like Air is a maker of popcorn, and they always describe it as better than popcorn. They have a new limited edition flavor. where they have partnered with Copper Cow Coffee to create a Vietnamese coffee flavored puff corn. It is delicious. I know that we've, or at least John has mentioned that the savory flavors are more to his liking than the sweet ones. This one I think kind of straddles that line.
[00:29:01] John Craven: I was going to say, it's coffee, so.
[00:29:03] Ray Latif: Yeah, you get a good amount of that savory and sweet, and it really does have a strong Vietnamese coffee influence to it. You're getting some of that condensed sweetened milk, some of the bitterness of the coffee, just a hint of the bitterness, and of course, the saltiness of the popcorn. So another really great limited edition product from Like Air.
[00:29:24] John Craven: Do you want more repeat buyers on Amazon? Well, this free resource in collaboration with Straight Up Growth will help your brand turn first-time buyers into long-term subscribers. Download Winning the Repeat Purchase Game on Amazon now at Taste Radio.com slash SUG. That's Taste Radio.com slash S-U-G to start building retention-driven growth for your brand on Amazon. Scaling a beverage brand into major retail comes down to operational readiness. From packaging lead times to co-manufacturing strategy, the details can make or break a launch. In a new e-book in collaboration with Octopi and Asahi Beer USA, industry leaders share what they've learned in helping brands scale. Download it now at Taste Radio.com slash octopi. If you're developing a cannabis beverage, formulation choices matter, especially early on. Source Technology's free guide shares practical insights on stability, dosing, and scale-ready development. Download the ins and outs of creating a cannabis beverage today at Taste Radio.com slash cannabis.
[00:30:33] Ray Latif: Alright, let's get to our featured interviews for this episode, each of which reveal how mission-driven brands are bridging lifestyle, culture, and retail innovation. We begin with Kevin Klock, the co-founder and CEO of Orange Toucan, who shares how discovering Moringa sparked the creation of a brand of clean-label, functional beverages designed to support inflammation reduction and metabolic health. Next, I speak with Keegan Fong, founder of LA's beloved Chinese restaurant brand Woon, who talks about turning his family's homestyle recipes into a rapidly growing CPG brand now found in over 500 stores nationwide. Hey folks, it's Ray with Taste Radio. Right now I am honored to be sitting down with Kevin Klock, who is the co-founder and CEO of Orange Toucan. Kevin, it's great to see you. Yeah, great to see you as well. Yeah, it's been a while. You and I have known each other for some time and you're back at it in the beverage industry with a brand called Orange Toucan. And I really love what you're doing. It's differentiated It's playful, it's fun, it's functional, it's got a lot of things going for it. Where did this idea come from? And just talk about what Orange Toucan is and where the idea came from.
[00:31:52] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah, well the idea came from, someone approached me and said they had some issues with their health and they were trying to create what they thought was the most functional, natural, plant-based beverage they could ever create and do it right. And a guy by the name of Rob Snell, and he says, Kevin, you ever heard of Moringa? No. And the minute I looked up Moringa, I'm like, why is no one doing this? So I went over, met Rob in Europe and worked on the beverage with them. And then we got a guy by the name of Sandy Wheeler involved. Sandy's the founder of Bowflex. And he's from the same town as I, and I told him about Moringa. And so he came in as a co-founder as well. And what we realized is Moringa is probably one of the best anti-inflammatory natural products that there is out there.
[00:32:33] Ray Latif: And it's a plant derived ingredient. Moringa is a plant itself.
[00:32:37] Jacqui Brugliera: Moringa is a plant itself, and in this can is 500 milligrams of moringa leaves. Ginger and turmeric is in there, which helps bring the identifier as being an anti-inflammatory. Well, Sandy, being a diabetic from Agent Orange in Vietnam, started drinking the beverage, obviously, when we started selling it, and suddenly his A1C dropped from 8.9 to 6.8. And his lantus insulin dropped from 26 to 18, which is actually remarkable. I know what insulin is. What's A1C? So A1C is a measure of your diabetes, your blood sugar. OK. So both of them are remarkable things. And what we hear most, we've been reaching out and talking to the heavy users, and it's the anti-inflammatory messages really coming across. A lot of people, chronic pain, those type of things, they're seeing reduction by drinking Orange Toucan.
[00:33:25] Ray Latif: Are people already familiar with Moringo when they encounter or are introduced to Orange Shoe Can? Or is it something where they approach this brand and say, oh, this is a really good looking can. I love the flavors that you offer. Oh, and it has this functional benefit as well.
[00:33:44] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah, well, the health and wellness community actually knows Moringa fairly well. So that's kind of where the target goes first and the natural channel, that kind of stuff. But like, for instance, this Friday, we signed Ken Roddout, who is a influencer, who is the fastest marathoner over the age of 50. He's had cortisol problems, started drinking Moringa, and this is really working well for him. He's highly respected in the health and wellness community. So I think as selling online and stuff, targeting into the health and wellness that already has some level of awareness to get it started. And, you know, we think this is a product where people are going to tell their friends, and that's how it will work more into the mainstream. It's also why you don't see us really focused on retail at this point. It's because, to your point, the overall messaging would be more difficult on the shelf than it is, per se, when we can have a one-on-one relationship through email and Instagram and all that.
[00:34:36] Ray Latif: I let off by saying it's fun, it's playful, and I'm talking about the packaging. And the brand name, too. Orange Toucan feels pretty playful. But you have these just gorgeous cans. These are almost 11-ounce Slim cans, and they have pastel colors and this little toucan in the middle of the logo. There's some just great flavors, there's a watermelon and lime, there's a dragon fruit and mangosteen, and there's a lemon lime and mango. And if I didn't know better, if I didn't see moringa infused on the front of the can, I would think these are refreshment beverages, almost sodas in fact. Why did you choose the positioning or I guess what is the positioning of this product? Are you leading with functional beverage? Are you leading with smoothness? sparkling drink, or how are you talking about it?
[00:35:18] Jacqui Brugliera: It's not sparkling, so that's one of the things, but being in a can, that's a great point. A lot of people would think, and that's actually, we got rid of the silver can we had because we think that was one of the miscommunications that we were making. As far as the overall target goes, again, this is why we're online, is really to be able to have that communication about Moringa and then finding those proper influencers who can help us communicate the messaging around it. A lot of people, they'll see the can, like you said, and see it's fun and playful, but it's going to be more about getting in the proper influencers so that people trust what they say. There's been an awful lot of beverages out there that make claims, but ultimately, they aren't functional. The reason why I was willing to get into this is we're leading with functionality and it's anti-inflammatory, and it also is blood sugar reduction, which is badly needed in this country. So the biggest challenge, as you know, when you can appeal to the masses, you've got to be careful. You've got to stay more targeted. What's the price point for a can? So we sell it online, it's $39.99 for a case. It's a 12? It's a 12 pack, yep. And the great thing about it is it's aseptic, so there's no preservatives, there's no added sugar, there's no dyes, there's no flavorants, it's just plain juice. And then the other thing that's exciting is the ginger and turmeric come in liquid form, so we're actually using juice, not, you know, something that's been processed and created in the granules, shipped overseas or whatnot.
[00:36:49] Ray Latif: Yeah, each variety comes with ginger and turmeric infused as well. So ginger, turmeric, moringa.
[00:36:54] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah.
[00:36:55] Ray Latif: This definitely feels like a functional beverage that a lot of people would enjoy drinking. Are you having fun?
[00:37:00] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah, well, it's crazy to think, you know, I especially being here with Ray, you know, you used to question me about natural and maybe more simple ingredients going down that path with some of the beverages.
[00:37:11] Ray Latif: When you were with Sparkling Ice, talking Ray and the maker of Sparkling Ice.
[00:37:15] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah. So I find it kind of ironic. I'm back here talking to you about this great functional plant based product that we're producing and bringing in from Thailand. Yeah. Very cool stuff.
[00:37:25] Ray Latif: Well, Kevin, thank you Too Much for taking the time. Like I said, let's definitely stay in touch. Yeah, it's a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you very much, Ray. Yeah. Hey, folks, it's Ray with Taste Radio. Right now, I am honored to be sitting down with Keegan Fong, who is the founder of Woon. Keegan, it's great to see you.
[00:37:43] John Craven: Yeah, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
[00:37:45] Ray Latif: Yeah, Woon, I love the name of your brand. Does it have a specific meaning?
[00:37:48] John Craven: Yeah, so Woon actually means bowl in Cantonese.
[00:37:52] Ray Latif: OK.
[00:37:52] John Craven: And we're a restaurant, so a lot of the food we serve is out of a bowl. Just wanted to think of a name that was easy to say, was relatable, sounded Asian, sounded Chinese. And yeah, that one stuck. No trademarks existing for it.
[00:38:09] Ray Latif: Yeah. I love when restaurants have such a great following such that their patrons are like, hey, can I make some of this food at home? And you're typically like, there's no chance you can make this at home. But maybe, maybe if we create some of these ingredients, maybe you can come close to what we're making at home. And your restaurants are quite popular. How many restaurants do you have? We have two, yeah. Two, and they're not in San Diego. In LA, yeah. In LA, okay. And I mentioned San Diego because we're here at the Naturally San Diego event at the Puesto in San Diego. And you created, I kind of left the cat out of the bag there, you have created a line of consumer products that are also known as Woon. Talk about the origins of this concept, what you're selling and where the products are sold.
[00:38:57] John Craven: Yeah, so Woon began as a restaurant, as I mentioned, you know, all original recipes from my mom, homestyle Chinese food. First location opened seven years ago, a year before COVID. Our second location has been open in Pasadena for just over a year. But that first location, you know, going into COVID, I think it was pretty natural for a lot of restaurants to figure out ways to diversify, to figure out ways to bring in a little bit more revenue and new verticals. And for us, you know, my background is not from the food and beverage industry. I came from marketing in apparel in the skate and surf industry. Totally different from Food & Bev, but my mind naturally went to how do I create a product that I can market, that I can, you know, share the same story of the restaurant, but outside of the four walls. We're in San Diego. I lived down here for 10 years and I missed LA. I missed kind of the culture and the food scene up there, especially my mom's, you know, home cooking. That's where I took a chance and was just like, I just want to try and share that story with a bunch of people. And I think we were able to create a bit of a following and CPG was kind of a natural transition, especially during COVID when we really need to get out there. And so I did a lot of research during COVID and was able to test the market and it slowly and organically caught on. And now We're sold nationally in over 500 doors and a lot of it has happened organically, which I'm very proud of. I think now we're at the stage where we're at this show where now we have to actually work our way into putting it into market.
[00:40:34] Ray Latif: By this show, you mean the Winter Fancy Fair. Yes. That's also being held here in San Diego. So the products that you sell, what are they specifically and what use case do people have for them?
[00:40:44] John Craven: For sure. I mean, you mentioned it earlier, right? Like a lot of people were like, how do we make this food at home? And for us, it was we would love to share this food outside of the four walls of the restaurants. And so our main two skews that are in a lot of grocery nationally are a hot sauce that we call Mama's Way hot sauce. My mom growing up taught us to use a lot of vinegar with our hot sauce. So it's a very acidic vinegar based Fresno hot sauce. It's great for Chinese food, but it's great on tacos, pizza, eggs, like whatever you want. Very acidic. It's bright, Fresno-based. And the other sauce that we focus on is a stir-fry sauce. So that's what we use in the restaurant to cook all our noodles. It's what we marinate our meat in. And you can use that to cook anything. You can cook veggies with it, tofu, fish. You can marinate meats with it. So those two are what we focus on through our distribution channels. And then we also offer like 15 additional SKUs nationwide that are more on smaller scale. So that's anything from like our seasonings, our dry goods of like white rice, black rice, dried shiitake mushrooms, and our frozen noodles that we serve in-house. It's really just taking everything we use in the restaurant and being able to create like a cheat sheet for a pantry for someone who's trying to learn how to cook Chinese food.
[00:42:05] Ray Latif: I assume a lot of what you sold at the outset was C2C, selling online, and now you're in 500 stores, 500 plus stores nationwide. Any learnings that you could apply from selling online to brick and mortar?
[00:42:19] John Craven: Yeah, I mean, I think for us, it was really being able to build that foundation and build that following organically first to help support the wholesale and retail business. You know, granted, we're not famously known nationwide, but I think... You got two restaurants. Yeah, we have two restaurants which are pretty regional, but I think it helped to at least build that following, you know, whether it is through social media and that online presence. which someone in New York now recognizes it and can be like, oh, that's that restaurant from LA. I want to give it a shot out here. So they go hand in hand. I think they help each other and vice versa. You know, we're in the fresh market in 22 states. And, you know, I think someone in Texas is going to be like, oh, what is this? And then they'll check us out online and discover that we actually are a restaurant in LA. So I think it kind of those two things kind of help each other out.
[00:43:13] Ray Latif: It's kind of just a full circle. where one feeds into the other, but you don't necessarily know exactly from where. Exactly. Really interesting. And I feel like it's a business that you're going to learn a lot about as you continue to build it. But in the meantime, it feels like you're going to help make people's nights a lot easier by creating products that can help them make delicious food, which is. I hope so. I mean, that's why we're all here, right? Yeah, exactly. And yeah, I appreciate that. And that's really the goal. Yeah, absolutely. Keegan, it's been so great speaking with you. Thank you Too Much for taking the time. Let's definitely stay in touch and I definitely want to try some of your products soon. Definitely. Thanks Too Much, Ray. Appreciate it. Thank you. That brings us to the end of this episode of Taste Radio. Thank you Too Much for listening. Taste Radio is a production of BevNET.com, Incorporated. Our audio engineer for Taste Radio is Joe Cracci. Our technical director is Joshua Pratt, and our video editor is Ryan Galang. Our social marketing manager is Amanda Smerlinski, and our designer is Amanda Huang. Just a reminder, if you like what you hear on Taste Radio, please share the podcast with friends and colleagues. And of course, we would love it if you could review us on the Apple Podcasts app or your listening platform of choice. Check us out on Instagram. Our handle is bevnettasteradio. As always, for questions, comments, ideas for future podcasts, please send us an email to ask at Taste Radio.com. On behalf of the entire Taste Radio team, thank you for listening. And we'll talk to you next time.
[00:44:46] John Craven: you
