[00:00:02] Ad Read: This week's episode of Taste Radio is sponsored by Project Nosh. The natural, organic, sustainable, and healthy foods community reads Project Nosh for product, innovation, and investment news. Project Nosh hosts the Nosh Live Conference twice a year in New York City and Los Angeles to gather the community to discuss moving the industry forward while finding partners to make it happen. To know what's happening in the industry, for advertising and lead generation opportunities, and to subscribe to the free daily newsletter, check out the recently redesigned projectnosh.com. And now, Taste Radio. Hey everyone, thanks for listening to BevNET's Taste Radio. I'm Ray Latif, with me are John Craven, Mike Schneider, Jon Landis, and Carol Ortenberg. We're recording for BevNET headquarters here in Watertown, Mass. In this week's episode, we sat down with As Tetrick, who's the founder and CEO of Just, which is formerly known as Hampton Creek. The food company is committed to revolutionizing the food industry using plant-based ingredients. We also speak with another groundbreaking entrepreneur, Aidan Altman, who's the co-founder of Fora Foods, the maker of an innovative vegan butter. Just a reminder to our listeners, for questions, comments, ideas for future podcasts, please send us an email to askatasteradio.com. And I just want to make a shout out to our rock star audio engineer. His name is Joe Crecci. We call him Joey Cray Cray. What would we do without Joey Cray Cray? He makes us all sound good. He really does. He is the magician behind Bevanette's Taste Radio podcast. When people say, hey, you guys sound really good and you can do a really good job. It's really all Joe. So thanks, Joe. Don't forget Josh. Oh yeah, that guy too. Joshua Pratt, our technical director. Thanks, Josh. Continuing upon this theme of San Francisco in the Winter Fancy Food Show, Carol Ortenberg, who I mentioned, has joined us for this episode of the podcast. You have some pretty interesting takes on what's going on in the city, particularly as it relates to the artisanal food scene and the booming interest in Food Tech.
[00:02:01] Carol Ortenberg: Yeah, thanks so much for having me. Last week, you guys talked about some of the great brands you saw at the show. There certainly was a plethora of them. And I thought it was really interesting listening to what you saw. Everything from vegan butter to chickpea butter. Mike's getting excited. Okay, maybe you guys just really like butters.
[00:02:22] Ad Read: Butternut's coming soon. Where's the snacking butter? Oh, the chocolate snacking butter. We followed up with Fourth and Heart. They got the chocolate. It's not ready for the real world yet, but it's almost ready.
[00:02:33] Carol Ortenberg: And that kind of speaks to what's going on at the Fancy Food Show. I thought it was so interesting how, you know, people think of that show as maybe it's a bunch of chocolates and jellies and jams, but there is such a wide range of categories represented there. Everything from, you know, vegan plant-based meat substitutes to, yeah, the jellies and jams and chocolates were still there.
[00:02:54] Ad Read: So many bars. They had bars there. Did you try the Mammoth Bar? You get your hands on those and no junk bars. Not bad. Not bad.
[00:03:00] Carol Ortenberg: I heard they were really big at the show.
[00:03:06] Ad Read: I love that.
[00:03:07] Carol Ortenberg: Yeah. And I don't know if you guys saw this, but it to me was so indicative of how the specialty food channel has changed. It's not just about gourmet sundry items. These stores and buyers want to stock products from a variety of categories. In this competitive retail environment, it seems like you've kind of got to have a little bit of everything in order to stay relevant to your consumers and draw them into your store.
[00:03:31] Ad Read: Definitely felt a lot more excitement and energy on the food end, especially in that kind of new hall that was upstairs. So, you know, all in all, it seemed pretty solid to me.
[00:03:41] Carol Ortenberg: I heard from a lot of food brands that they were actually going to debut or announce new products at Fancy Foods or right after because they felt Expo West was just getting so crowded that they wanted to get the news out there in advance so that the buyers, when they hit Expo West, knew to stop by their booth and check out what was new.
[00:03:58] Ad Read: so many needles in the biggest haystack. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think it's actually kind of smart for companies to be doing it earlier or if they were doing it at fancy foods. I mean, it's cutting through the clutter and certainly getting more attention right now. I think it's going to be pretty hard to remember all of the new things that we see at or are going to see at Expo West. I'm honestly almost going to have a panic attack here thinking about it, but so much stuff, you know.
[00:04:24] Carol Ortenberg: Little editorial plug. If you do have news, totally send that to news at Project Nosh or news at BevNET as early as you possibly can. Like John's saying, there's a, there's a ton of news that breaks at Expo West and the sooner you can get that to us, the sooner we can cover it.
[00:04:39] Ad Read: My work here is done. Thank you for that, for saying that.
[00:04:43] Carol Ortenberg: Beyond the array of products, to me, it's just kind of such an interesting place to hold a Food Show, right? San Francisco has these two dichotomies of all these makers and craft products. You've got the gourmet ghetto in Berkeley that's just full of these businesses that have been around for so long. And there's such an emphasis on making things from scratch and organic and artisanal. And then at the same time in San Francisco, there's like this crazy Food Tech scene and
[00:05:10] Ad Read: Well, food culture in San Francisco is big. The food there in general and the amount of restaurant choices and just the choices that you can make in San Francisco are awesome. So it's a great place to have a Food Show, but it did have a different feel than the tech shows. Like it was definitely a Food Show dropped into San Francisco versus like a true San Francisco show in San Francisco. That's how I felt about it. I think that's a pretty fair assessment. I mean, this is like an old school show. I mean, we've joked about even the name of the thing, right? That's kind of a little dated, no offense to it, since what exactly is a fancy food anyway, right?
[00:05:45] Carol Ortenberg: It makes you feel fancy when you eat it. I just skip through the whole show.
[00:05:48] Ad Read: I know, it is a little, I feel like when I tell friends or then I'm going to like the fancy Food Show, they're like picturing, you know, caviar and champagne and, you know, something a lot nicer. You didn't have that? Oh, they probably do. I don't know. I didn't see those aisles.
[00:06:02] Carol Ortenberg: There was a little bit of caviar there.
[00:06:03] Ad Read: It always makes me think of fancy feast, which is not good. Yum.
[00:06:09] Carol Ortenberg: So they're certainly trying to find ways to incorporate food and technology into the program at Fancy Foods.
[00:06:16] Ad Read: You guys saw some Food Tech firsthand at the headquarters of Just, Carol and John Craven, that is. As Tetrick, who's the founder and CEO, knows a thing or two about the subject, as I mentioned. He runs Just. It's a company that merges biotechnology and plant-based ingredients to create environmentally friendly and healthier foods. So tell me guys, how much like Willy Wonka's factory was the Just headquarters? Well, I think it actually was a chocolate factory for just moved in there, if I remember from the tour. So I guess in that sense, it's a little Willy Wonka like, but yeah, I mean, it was definitely one of the more interesting and neat sort of offices we've been in since it's, you know, I mean, it's a lab as much as it is an office.
[00:07:05] Carol Ortenberg: It's kind of crazy, you pull up to it and they're this company that has so much presence in the industry. And it's like this nondescript building with just tiny little letters on the door. I mean, I think that's the way they want it, but we were like, are we in the right place? You open a door, there's like one guy sitting at a desk.
[00:07:23] Ad Read: There's a tinier door and a tinier door and a tinier door and a tinier door. I heard Carol picked up a snack off the table and ate it and the Oompa Loompas came in and started singing a song, throwing her around and stuff. Did you have a lesson? Did you learn a lesson, Carol? Sorry, I know that creeps you out.
[00:07:36] Carol Ortenberg: I'm so scared of Oompa Loompas. I'm like terrified.
[00:07:39] Ad Read: Did you turn violet?
[00:07:42] Carol Ortenberg: Guys, you're making me clammy here. My hands are starting to sweat. And we were there on such an exciting day because they had Just rebranded to the name Just and the next day, Josh and their team were getting on a plane to go to Hong Kong. to launch their products overseas. So it really was a hive of energy. Everyone was really pumped up about what was going on.
[00:08:03] Ad Read: Yeah. And I mean, I think the stuff that we saw in there, you know, we just went from, as I'm kind of thinking about it, you know, one room to the next, where there are these things that you just don't normally see it like a traditional, you know, CPG company, you know, milling of grains. God, I don't even know how to describe that room where they were working on the clean meat. You know, it's like just people in lab coats doing things that it almost looked like a science lab out of a movie sort of thing, you know, where they're creating some evil, destructive thing. Microscopes and Petri dishes and pipe hats.
[00:08:35] As Tetrick: Things shaking around.
[00:08:35] Ad Read: One million. Oh, sorry. And then, you know, they also have a culinary team that let us sample some new stuff that they're working on. I guess do we call it vegan egg alternative?
[00:08:49] Carol Ortenberg: Scramble.
[00:08:50] Ad Read: Scramble, as well as some ice cream project they're working on. I don't know. I'm sure there's a lot of top secret stuff going on. I really want to try lab grown meat. I really, really want to try that.
[00:09:02] Carol Ortenberg: Same. Yes, for those who don't know, they're working on growing meat cells basically in bioreactors. And the hope is by the end of the year to have a product that they can release into market and then one day replace slaughterhouses with just giant meat factories that grow the meat that people can come visit. It's very clean. And it's just a very different experience what they envision the future of meat to be.
[00:09:27] Ad Read: I don't think I'd like to see a slaughterhouse ever in my life, but I think I'd like to see a factory that grows meat even less, actually. It sounds horrifying.
[00:09:35] As Tetrick: I mean, doesn't it?
[00:09:36] Ad Read: It's so weird. It sounds like science fiction. It also sounds like something that… has got to have some moral and ethical implications as well, right? Well, I mean, I think, you know, part of their grand vision, you know, they have these beautiful pictures on the wall of like a just, what was it, a Kobe steak and a piece of tuna and these things that they want to actually produce that are You know, I think the version 1.0 product that hits the market's going to be like a chicken nugget or a sausage, but they're going to, you know, they want to produce things that actually look like cuts of meat. And, you know, I think the reality is that if they can successfully do that, like, you need to show off where it comes from. Well, I've not been to a slaughterhouse, but my dad grew up on one. And if you want to talk about moral and ethical implications, give a 14 year old, uh, what do they call it? They drive a stake right in the cow's head. And, you know, my dad was 14 killing cows. So, I mean, there's some moral and ethical implications and. in the meat industry itself. I mean, I can't wait for us to be able to, I think this is close to where we're getting to, you know, the Star Trek, you know, tell the computer what you want and it creates it. I mean, people 50 years in the future might be culturing and growing meat in their homes so that they can, you know, have a burger whenever they want.
[00:10:56] Carol Ortenberg: And they certainly are thinking about the moral and ethical implications. You know, they're very careful where the original cells that they're using for this lab-grown meat come from because it opens this whole new discussion to, is it kosher? You know, if you have lab-grown pork sausages, you know, there's no cloven hooves, there's the slaughter doesn't, there is no slaughter. So can you eat them if they're kosher? Can you eat, if you're halal, can you eat pork? What does that mean? Is it even pork, right?
[00:11:24] Ad Read: I mean, it's a whole question of whether it's actually pork anymore.
[00:11:27] Carol Ortenberg: I think it's important to say that genetically it will look the same as pork. It's not some substitute that looks like pork, but is made up of something else or is genetically modified.
[00:11:38] Ad Read: You're going to have that person standing on a soapbox going, no, it's not. It's not pork. Didn't come from a pig, not pork. You know, people are going to do that. And it's, that's like you said, moral and ethical question. And man, that must've been tough for your dad, Landis. I don't know. He's got some cool stories, man. He used to drive around a meat truck when he was 15 years old and knock on the door and say, what kind of cut of meat do you want? And go back out to the truck and cut it and wrap it up. Pack up an animal in his truck? Yeah. And he would drive into town and dad would buy cows to slaughter and he'd have to drive a full truck of cows back to the slaughterhouse. That's cool, man. That's like life experience. That's real life. That's the real deal.
[00:12:17] Carol Ortenberg: Now you'd be like some artisanal butcher, you know, with like an awesome mustache and a YouTube channel if that was your life.
[00:12:23] Ad Read: So yeah, what happens with that? I mean, you've got, you know, Andrew Zimmern on Bizarre Foods going to Sardinia, finding the pig. You get to see him drain the blood and the bacon. And it's like, they're basically, they're paying homage to the animal as they're, that goes away. That whole experience is gone in this situation. I mean, certainly one of the things that they talked about going away were like crappy cuts of meat. All right, let's just get to this excellent interview, which includes Josh's take on the systemic problems that we just talked about in the current food system and the singular operating principle that drives Just Mission.
[00:12:58] Carol Ortenberg: All right, well, we are here in San Francisco with As Tetrick, who is the founder and CEO of Hampton Creek. Josh, thanks so much for being with us.
[00:13:08] As Tetrick: Good to be here. Well, you know, our name is officially Just Now.
[00:13:11] Carol Ortenberg: That's right. Tell us about this, this new change.
[00:13:14] As Tetrick: Just, just think, but just as easy. I had no idea what the hell to call the company when we first started. At first, we just didn't have a name. And then we were called Beyond Eggs, which is the worst ever name in the history of food. We had a logo, also the worst logo ever. And then we changed the name of the company to Hampton Creek because my best friend and co-founder's dog passed away. It was the first time I ever really saw him emotional about anything. And we thought if we added Creek to the end of Hampton, that buyers at Denny's and retailers in Alabama would think, It's a normal kind of company. And then we decided our first product should start with just, and it turns out that consumers really resonate with that word. For us, it means fairness, equity, and it means simplicity, which is all stuff that we like.
[00:14:04] Carol Ortenberg: So going from company name to company products, I know a lot of our listeners know about Jess, but can you tell us a little bit about the company and what you guys produce here?
[00:14:13] As Tetrick: Yeah, so we started almost six years ago. I didn't have any idea how to start a company when I first started this one. I just knew that if we wanted to figure out a way to do good, maybe a company was better than a nonprofit. I knew a lot of our systems are fucked up in the world, like healthcare and education. We can think of all the reasons why they're not the best. But the food system is pretty screwed up. Most people around the world are not eating well. They're eating food that degrades their body, eating food that degrades the planet. But a lot of that food tastes good, and a lot of that food they can afford. And I think we just wanted to figure out a way to create food that tastes really good, that people can afford, but food that's not causing all that harm. It's a simple idea, it ends up being pretty hard to accomplish, because the current way that we make food is from soy, it's from corn, from conventional animal protein, from processed sugar. Think of these as the tools of the current food system. And the tools of the current food system have gotten us here, but I don't think they're sufficient to get us where we need to go tomorrow. It means that we can make food, but it means a lot of the food just isn't the best. So the question is, how do we find these new tools? And for us, we look at plants. We've also figured out a way to look at cells from animals. And we make really good food. We put Just on it. And then we work big companies under something we call Made Just. It's our way of licensing our technology to them. And we try to do it as fast as we can.
[00:15:33] Ad Read: Taking what you just said, what's so wrong with the tools that are out there right now?
[00:15:38] As Tetrick: What's wrong with it? Well, I think a good place to start is from a product perspective. Think of a chocolate chip cookie. Most people enjoy chocolate chip cookies. We enjoy it because it has a certain texture, a certain mouthfeel. And we might eat it for lunch. We might eat it in our school cafe, might be in our daughter's lunchbox. And the tools used to make that chocolate chip cookie include soy, corn often, and some conventional animal protein, dairy and eggs. That cookie, unbeknownst to most people, is using a lot of land, it's using a lot of water, it's causing a lot of animals to be kept in cages unnecessarily, has some cholesterol, probably has too much sodium, and is probably in some way contributing to the spiking of diabetes, type 2 diabetes. That's a lot to think of when you're eating a chocolate chip cookie, which is why most people don't think of all that when they're eating a chocolate chip cookie. Sure. So if we were trying to think about how to do it differently, how would we make an even better cookie? We might say, well, can you make the flavor and the Taste Radio the mouthfeel and all the goodness that makes us love a cookie without all the harm? And I think to do that you need new tools. You can't just use soy corn and eggs and dairy. Maybe a mung bean would help there. Maybe a grain called sorghum would be helpful. Maybe other plants we haven't even discovered would be helpful to put all that together to hopefully make a cookie that tastes better than the current ones we eat, but just a little bit better when it comes to sustainability and health.
[00:17:10] Ad Read: And you've talked about kind of the food system being broken. So I guess this is maybe a slightly leading question, but why don't all the big companies out there that, you know, have these massive resources and money and all the products that are already doing this stuff, like, why aren't they figuring this out?
[00:17:27] As Tetrick: I think there are two big reasons. I think one is, I'm, and we're lucky that, you know, five and a half years ago, my company was a couch in my ex-girlfriend's apartment. So I didn't have a billion dollar supply chain. I didn't have all of the knowledge. Some of it that can be good and some of it can be limiting. I truly was a beginner, you know, person who knew nothing. And starting over is really powerful. And when you have billion-dollar supply chains, when you have tens of millions of dollars invested in a certain way of doing things, when you've been doing that certain thing for 10, 20, 30 years ago, that's hard to break from. Mentally, it's hard to break from. Financially, it's hard to break from. And it's a big risk to break from it. So I think those things prevent often good people at the biggest companies of doing something, anything different. And when I first started, I actually thought all the big companies were complete garbage. I thought they were full of evil people that didn't give a fuck. And I was like, I'm going to go after them. I'm going to steal their market share. I'm going to show them. Something I've learned along the way is, of course, everyone's not perfect who works for a big company. But I've met so many people at big food service companies, at large food manufacturers, at some of the biggest meat companies in the world. who acknowledge the problem, who want a different approach to solve the problem. They just want to do it in a way where they can still be a viable business. And I think it's kind of exciting to show them that path because they want it.
[00:19:01] Carol Ortenberg: So you talked about all these problems with the food system that you wanted to solve, and your first product was mayo. I know.
[00:19:08] As Tetrick: It's such a stupid product.
[00:19:09] Carol Ortenberg: I'm not saying that.
[00:19:11] As Tetrick: I think it is.
[00:19:11] Carol Ortenberg: It's a tasty product.
[00:19:12] As Tetrick: It is.
[00:19:12] Carol Ortenberg: But when you're trying to change the food system, you know, there are a limited number of use cases for mayo, and some consumers have an aversion to it. Why start with mayo?
[00:19:23] As Tetrick: May is so funny because it is completely unnecessary. Like I see water in front of you. I'm drinking water right now. That's unnecessary. May is totally unnecessary. But I think it's part of the reason why we started with it. It's a multibillion-dollar market. about $4 billion around the world. For the mayo experts out there, you would know that Mexico, Japan, the US, and Russia are top four mayo consumption countries. Mayo is this, in America, it's the most popular condiment. Similarly to that chocolate chip cookie, it could be better. You don't need a battery cage egg in mayo to emulsify the oil and water. In fact, a yellow split pea is better at doing that without all the water, without all the land, without the abuse. You can actually improve the mouthfeel if you use different kinds of oil and even less oil. So mayo was good for us because it was something that was both unnecessary, widely used. We like that people put mayo in chicken salad and ironically in egg salad. We like that it's endemic, it's all over the place, and that small changes can lead to a big impact. We've sold well north of two million gallons of mayo since we started. It was a good start to really understand how to produce food better.
[00:20:34] Carol Ortenberg: You then went from mayo into other categories like cookies or cookie dough. Now you're trying to go into clean meats. How- Scrambled eggs. And scrambled eggs.
[00:20:45] Ad Read: Which we got to try. Those were delightful, by the way.
[00:20:46] Carol Ortenberg: Those were, yeah, amazing. How hard is it to get consumers to constantly be thinking of you differently as a company that makes a new product in a new category and, oh, now I'm seeing them there.
[00:20:58] As Tetrick: Right. You know, it's good to actually get out in the real world. And I was raised in Birmingham, Alabama. And although in Alabama we're in Winn-Dixie and we're in Piggly Wiggly, my brother got us in those places, we're in every Walmart in Alabama. The vast majority of consumers don't have the faintest clue of who we are. That's one thing. We're not on their mind all the time. So it's important to acknowledge that even though in our world, my company is on my mind all the time, the vast majority of people around the world don't know who we are. And the second thing is, I think the unifying line between mayo and cookies and scrambled egg and making sausage without needing to kill a pig, is Food Show be better. We need new tools to make it better. If it tastes really good, if it makes people feel good, if it connects with people's culture, how they feel about themselves, they'll probably buy it. And if it doesn't, they probably won't. So we try to help people understand how it connects. And I'm hoping the name Just can help make that even more clear to people. Because it's a little weird. I mean, we sell mayo in Beckley, West Virginia, Walmarts, chocolate chip cookies at Texas A&M, ranch dressing on Amazon. We're about to start selling sausage or chicken nuggets made without needing to kill an animal somewhere around the world. And we're also working on micronutrition products for countries in sub-Saharan Africa. Different things all under the same idea. We need to build a food system where people can eat well. The new tools are not working. We need to find better tools to make better food. We can't just do it alone. We have to work with other people too. And it better damn well taste good or no one will give a fuck.
[00:22:43] Carol Ortenberg: Wise words, wise words. In terms of making things better beyond the food system, you know, thinking about the history of the company and how it's founded, one thing that's always impressed me about you as a CEO and your vision for the company is you're constantly striving to make your own company better. How have you brought on advisors and people to assist you with that process? What have you learned through that? Because I think that's something a lot of entrepreneurs can benefit from.
[00:23:10] As Tetrick: Yeah. Well, when I, almost six years ago, I'm on the couch in my ex-girlfriend's apartment. She wants me to get out of her apartment. She wants me to stop sleeping on the couch. She wants me to figure out a way to start this company. I didn't know hardly anything about how to start a company, period, let alone a company that's going to be selling food. And there's a lot of good that comes from not having experience, and then there's bad that comes from not having experience. We've made a ton of mistakes along the way. Probably the single biggest mistake, if I had to say. is from the moment I started, you wanna be different because being different means that you're not just gonna make the same old food that everyone else is making. But it turns out in the food that you can't be completely different because at the end of the day, you are making a product that people are putting in their mouths that has to be shelf stable. You have to ship it, has a shelf life. And you have to have an operations team that understands how to work with manufacturing, how to deal with distribution, how to build a supply chain. And I think I thought in the beginning I could just kind of rely on computational biologists and biochemists and food science and chefs. And we didn't need that critical operations piece. And it ended up costing us lots of money. We wrote off, gosh, too much product. We used to have an on time and in full rate at Walmart that would make me nauseous when I went to bed at night. I was always scared that Walmart was going to be like, get the fuck out of here. Even though people are buying it, you can't figure out a way to keep on the shelf. And that was a lot of anxiety. Imagine getting approved to be on the shelves of 4,000 Walmarts, right? when you have like 10 people, 15 people working in the company, and you can't figure out a way to manufacture it on time. You can't figure out a way to actually keep it on the shelves. So I'd go in a Walmart, and I'd be in Wisconsin, and every Walmart I saw, I'd go in, and I see the tag, but I don't see my jar. And it's a really critical lesson. You can make phenomenal products differently But if you cannot manufacture them in the way that you need to on time and in full, you're not going to be able to make the company happen. So we've tried to fill in the gap with hiring people that get it and talking to a lot of those advisors that have helped open my eyes to how important it is.
[00:25:43] Ad Read: So one of the other things that I think is really interesting about the experience you've had so far is the amount of, you know, I guess sort of I'd call it spotlight and maybe sort of being under the microscope here in a way that for a company that's only a couple of years old, at least on the food end of things is, really pretty unique. Maybe it's not on, you know, the tech end of things, but it's been really wild to see the amount of coverage for some of the things when you've, you know, restaged your board and whatnot. What's that like as an entrepreneur having, you know, so much focus on, you know, from the outside on just the workings of the company here?
[00:26:22] As Tetrick: I think we always try to keep in mind that, you know, always through everything, the main point is the point that really matters. And the main point for us is, Are we making better food for more people? If the answer is yes, we feel good. If the answer is no, then we don't feel good. And moms that are buying what we're doing at Beckley West Virginia Walmarts, or my buddies at Texas A&M buying our chocolate chip cookies, they're not reading all that stuff. It's just not what they're paying attention to, right? They just, they want to eat better Food Show the first part of the answer to the question is we try to stay very ground on all what is, are we making more food for more people? So it's kind of just, you gotta take that stuff out, I guess. And then the second thing is, I think I love the idea that, you know, a company, even though we're relatively small, that people are paying attention to what we're doing. The more it's about, People seeing what we're doing and trying to copy what we're doing the better probably the less of the Silicon Valley stuff sure the better you know what I think To large extent it kind of comes with the territory and it's okay. I usually don't read good stuff or bad stuff I just try to put my head down and and do a better job and if I'm doing that then we feel good and again if I'm not I and shame on me and I got to get better.
[00:27:51] Carol Ortenberg: Have you adjusted how you handle the, you know, scrutiny over the years? Like have you taken away any specific lessons?
[00:27:59] As Tetrick: Honestly, I think I have. I think I, you know, when you first start a company and you're on, you know, some kind of TV show or, you know, you, you see yourself on CBS this morning or there's Chris Jones, our chef on CBS this morning, or you're reading articles about yourself, you're, you're really focused on it, you know, cause you don't really have a product yet or barely have a product. So it's like your energy ends up going there. And I think as we've, as we've matured and hopefully as I've matured a little bit, I just don't think about it as much. Like I don't get excited when a good article comes out, nor do I feel affected if a not so good one comes out. The consequences tomorrow morning, I'm going to get up. I'm going to walk with Ellie, my dog, to work. I'm going to try to push these guys and these women here as hard as I possibly can to do better, to get more profitable, to put out better stuff. So I think I've gone from thinking about it a lot, you know, again, the good stuff and the bad stuff, to being more effective with my focus and just thinking, how do we get better? How do we get better? How do we get better? And I find the more that we do that, the happier I am and the better the company is.
[00:29:17] Carol Ortenberg: Going off of something you just said about pushing the company to do better and, you know, we hear so much about how the tech world can be this relentless push for greatness. How do you also keep employees motivated, especially when, you know, you have something that maybe they're working on that's like, you know, it's not going to come out next week. might not even come out next year. It might come out in two years or three years. How do you keep everyone excited while still pushing them forward?
[00:29:47] As Tetrick: Yeah. Well, you know, one of the things we've tried to do is I've tried to, before I hire anyone. So if I was interviewing you right now for a job and I said, and we completed the interview, I would say, all right, we're going to consider you, but you got to consider us and please do not work here. If you cannot take the following, and then I'll say, if you do not feel really connected to this mission, please don't accept the job if we offer it to you. Because I promise you, you will get burnout quick. You will get annoyed quick. You'll get frustrated. You'll get angry. It won't work. You have to feel connected. Not in a bullshit way. Everyone can say they believe in a mission in a bullshit way. Enough. Put yourself under a fucking lie detector test. Do you feel connected to this? Do you feel connected to alleviating suffering? Do you feel connected to feeding people better? Do you feel connected to building this better food systems? That is really, that's an enduring thing. The second thing I say is, if you feel like you're a builder, like you can deal with uncertainty and you can build stuff from scratch, you're probably gonna work here. And if you just don't feel comfortable with that, it's probably not gonna work either. And only you can really tell me that. I can ask you a thousand questions, but only you can really sort that out. And third, you've got to know that if you gave me a 100% chance right now to get acquired for $3.5 billion by Unilever, 100% chance right now, and everyone would think that's some grand success, or a 30% chance to do something more long lasting, more transformative, that would hopefully do even more good, I would prefer the 30% shot. And very few people would agree with that, but that's okay. If it doesn't feel like you, please don't work here. So we've tried to recruit, retain those kind of people. And I find that when you push those people that feel that, they look at it less as work, although it's still work, and more as maybe a more important part of their life. But it's still hard to find the right balance.
[00:32:02] Ad Read: Well, that's probably for this microcosm of San Francisco and Silicon Valley. What you were just describing is probably very different than what potential candidates are getting elsewhere, right?
[00:32:14] As Tetrick: Yeah. I mean, I've hired lots of people. When I started, what I just described there, I didn't appreciate when I first started. I knew I felt that way, but I didn't know it was important to make that really clear to people. You learn along the way and also find that I end up when I work with people who feel connected to what we're doing in a deeper way, I'm so much more likely to trust them because I feel like it can cut through a lot of stuff and we can have like a singular operating principle. Does this decision increase the probability that we'll achieve the mission? If yes, let's do. If not, let's not. And it just simplifies like a very complicated world sometimes.
[00:33:03] Ad Read: So how do you apply that specific logic to the, you know, suite of products that you're working on? I mean, it seems like just from what we saw, the, you know, I guess to continue with the hating on Mayo being, you know, worthless, like you see sort of different level of, you know, if you guys knock it out of the park with clean meat. Yeah. That's clearly totally different than if you knock it out of the park with Mayo or. eggs or that ice cream we tasted was delicious up there. But how do you evaluate all these things that you're in?
[00:33:34] As Tetrick: So we start off with like, all right, so the world's food system, so what's going on here? So let's just think about a few things we know for sure. So got 7.3 billion people on the planet, food demand's going up by 70% between now and 2050, meat consumption's going up by 100%, more people, more food, higher per capita income, urbanization, more processed food, like boom. We know that for sure. Then we say, what are the big categories? So eggs 550 billion, dairy 400 billion, mayo 4 billion, baked goods north of 500 billion, meat 1.1 trillion. So then we kind of look at these big categories. And then we say, what have we already found? Again, these new tools that we found. And when I say a tool, a mung bean is a tool. Tool sounds like too fancy a word. It's a mung bean. It's sorghum. These are plants out there that we're using to make products better. What do we already have? And what products can we make using this? But our evaluation in a more specific way is, can we use this tool to make a product a lot better from a social and environmental perspective? Can we use these tools to make the product taste better? Do we see a runway, a path to north of 100 million in sales the next handful of years? Do we feel like we can make this product profitable? Do we feel like we could license this to other companies? Would they also be interested in it? Is there a global kind of applicability to it? We try to sort through it and then we get mayo cookies, scrambled eggs, cookie dough, and maybe some sausage.
[00:35:01] Carol Ortenberg: It's like a stomachache when you put them all together in one sentence.
[00:35:04] As Tetrick: I know, I know.
[00:35:05] Carol Ortenberg: The way you talk about how you make decisions, right now there are so many companies that tell me, oh, I'm running my food company like a tech company, or we're really a tech company, just we're also making chickpeas or potato chips or whatever. What do you think is so appealing about tech? Is it the fact that you're able to make these decisions very concretely and that was lacking in CPG?
[00:35:30] As Tetrick: Yeah, you know, I definitely, I think if you asked me five years ago, I probably would have said, Yeah, we run our company like a technology company in every possible way. And I think the reason I would have said that five years ago is there's an allure to, you know, to an Apple, to, you know, to Microsoft of the olden days. They feel fast. They feel big fast. They feel innovative. And these are words that are appealing to a young entrepreneur that has no idea what the fuck he's doing, right? But then, Mike Tyson has a great quote. He said, everyone has a plan until you get punched in the face. And then you start and you're like, okay, wait a second. So technology doesn't exactly solve shipping a refrigerated product across the country. It doesn't exactly solve identifying the right warehousing partners. Boring, but really fucking important. It doesn't exactly solve like identifying the right co-packers for a cookie. You know, leading technologists would probably be shitty at doing that. You actually need to understand, again, the nitty gritty of operations of building an infrastructure, the basics that apply to any company in any industry, the basics of distribution that were true 100 years ago. I think we've learned to try to take the best of a lot of different worlds and apply them to what we're doing.
[00:37:04] Carol Ortenberg: Yeah, I think that's really wise advice because it almost feels like now I run my food company or my company acts like a tech company has come to me like I'm decisive, I'm agile, I can pivot easy. And these more just seem like the way a good business is run.
[00:37:21] As Tetrick: Yeah, I think so. I think, I mean, take, um, boy, I mean, let's look at examples from a whole bunch of companies, like things that, that I've tried to learn from. Let's start like in tech. Okay, Apple. So, Apple's learned that I have an iPhone in front of me. Something that I've learned from Apple is when Apple is selling this, they're not selling the screen and the processor and the apps, they're selling an experience. It's kind of an emotional experience as opposed to getting to all the characteristics. Well, that's something to really learn from. They've done a good job of early integrating, Creating entirely new categories. Got it. Okay, that's good Tesla has done a really good job similar to Apple but in different larger industry of integrating software and hardware. That's really interesting But there's a company called seized candy that Warren Buffett owns as a part of Berkshire Hathaway. See's Candy has figured out a way to consistently supply quality product for decades, the same thing that people can always rely on time and time again, has an incredibly trusting culture, very consistent manufacturing, is highly profitable. Good fucking lessons from See's Candy. And See's Candy, like I did when I started the company, I didn't say, man, I am just No, I'm just hankering. But I think your point of there's some fundamental truths across lots of different businesses that you want to incorporate into what you do. Technology has some good lessons, but it's certainly not the end-all be-all. I think that when you know nothing, speaking of me, when you know nothing and you have a limited amount of time, you jump to, you know, kind of the brightest light, right? And you try to, as you're trying to find yourself, right? You're like, okay, let me be like that. And then once you learn that that doesn't actually work in every instance, hopefully you can be thoughtful enough to be like, okay, I'll be a little bit of that, but let's also bring in some C's Candy lessons. Let's also bring in some lessons in other industries.
[00:39:28] Ad Read: We're going to have a run on entrepreneurs trying to figure out what the heck C's Candies is all about.
[00:39:33] Fora Foods: C's Candies for sure.
[00:39:34] Ad Read: Good stuff. So before we let you go here, you know, kind of taking all these pieces that we've seen here that have different kind of, you know, runways for incubation and getting out into the marketplace and, you know, this sort of more grand vision that you have. You know, how far into the future do you think we have to go until this change is realized? Are we looking at 20 years? Is it 50 years, five years? How long until we're at a point where the meat system has potentially changed, et cetera?
[00:40:10] As Tetrick: The only way I know to answer that question is to think about changes in the past. And if we were doing a podcast in 1820, which we wouldn't have done, but if it was 1820, and we said, okay, you know, right now you need a horse and buggy to get from the east to the west, or you can walk. When do we imagine there being a different way? And by 1870 or so enough railroad was laid down where you could actually take a rail car from the east to the west. And then we would have said, okay, well, and that's kind of annoying, just relying on them. When are we going to get to the place where independently you can drive from east to the west? And then by 1920, 30, 40 years, you could actually have a car and everyone was driving Model Ts. And in 1990, when I was in 1990 to 1990, it was 1993 when I was a freshman. In high school, I didn't have access to the internet. And how many years until we can actually have global communication this way, where you can talk to someone in Lagos or Cape Town or Amsterdam in a millisecond over the phone without paying? I would have thought 100 years, but it turns out in a decade you could do that. So I think it's helpful at least to look at times, because when you're in a moment, it's challenging to imagine a different world. But those different worlds that I talked about, We think about the light bulb, but 2.1 billion people around the world don't have a light bulb. So that project is still not completed. A majority of the world, 3 billion or so people, and a majority half don't have cars. So in some ways, you could say that project is not completed. But I think in the next 10 to 30 years, the system will shift enough where the change that we're talking about now becomes obvious to everyone. It's not just something we can imagine in our head that we're seeing it everywhere. We're seeing different kinds of meat. We're seeing the biggest meat companies in the world transitioning their operations. It becomes obvious that clearly this is happening and, you know, whatever we can do to push people to do it. I hope people listen to this and are like, you know what? I like his ideas, but I actually want to start something that's even better and out-compete them. I hope they do that. I hope big companies listen to this and think we can do that better, and they do it. I just want to use my life to solve the problem.
[00:42:33] Carol Ortenberg: It's been so exciting being around the office today, seeing what you guys are working on. Thanks so much for taking time to be with us today, and we're looking forward to seeing what the future holds for Just.
[00:42:43] As Tetrick: Thank you. It means a lot to us.
[00:42:47] Ad Read: Just Mayo. Josh himself called it a stupid product. But it was pretty cool to hear him talk about how it was a product that really helped them to understand how to scale and manufacture food on a large sort of scale. And it's teaching them how to make the cookie dough they make, the cookies that they make, and perhaps at some point in the future, the lab-grown meat and seafood as well. I mean, I've heard from people in the industry that the formulation behind Just Mayo, there's nothing really revolutionary there, but I agree, you know, it's about building a company that's scalable and building a foundation for, you know, future innovation.
[00:43:24] Carol Ortenberg: And they are still continuing to improve it. While we were there, we tasted Just Mayo and the Just Dips 2.0. And so they're continuing to work on refining that. I think what was important about the mayo was that it gave them a product in market. And something John referenced, you know, how long is this clean meat going to take? The same thing has kind of happened with their scramble product, right? Mike mentioned Andrew Zimmern. I remember seeing Scramble on Andrew Zimmern in like 2012, right? They were talking about these vegan eggs. And it's great to talk about these things, but I think Josh realized you need a product and market to show proof of concept and your investors that while you're not there at the eggs yet and and you're building excitement around that, you've got something that you're selling and that's drawing in consumers and building a brand.
[00:44:10] Ad Read: Especially as somebody who's a brand new entrepreneur, you know, laying on a couch that had no idea how to start a company. He had no playbook going into this whatsoever. So being able to take a product, learn the fundamentals, learn the basics of getting a product to market. And like you said, scaling was crucial for them to be able to do what they're doing now. They couldn't have just jumped in with all this science and adding layers of complexity just makes everything obviously more complex. And yeah, okay, you can laugh at me for saying that, but that's a thing to remember when you're starting a business. Yeah, well, I think also if he's trying to, you know, lead people to water that's eventually like, you know, this massive change in meat. He's gotta figure out the journey that's gonna get consumers willing to even accept that. And, you know, clearly it's not gonna go from mayo to meat, right? But I think it's smart that he's thinking about products that are pretty safe for people to swap out. Like no one really cares that much about like, you know, what's in their mayonnaise, right? And it's going to be hard for somebody to go from being like a professional hockey player or something to be the person who's going to change the entire food ecosystem. You know, you have to have some street cred in the food industry to be able to change the food industry, at least for a lot of investors who are going to be putting, you know, putting something into this. They're asking themselves, why you? You're going to have to be able to, you know, come up with a reason for that. And he's got it with the Just Mayo.
[00:45:33] Carol Ortenberg: It's also a smart way to get into retailers, right? There's a lot of competition in the perimeter of the store. Is there as much competition in the mayo space? Probably not in every retailer. So if you bring in something innovative, yeah, it might be a little easier to get on shelf and mayo, to get on shelf and cookies. It's a bigger set. And they're looking for those innovative brands that are going to bring consumers into center store.
[00:45:58] Ad Read: Right. But at the end of the day, it's what, what did they say? $2 billion global category. And you know, it's a relatively low volume product, a condiment like mayonnaise. So there's definitely center store opportunities, but if you have a hundred million dollars invested in you, you got to be able to make some bigger moves in that. Which is why I think he called it a stupid product. Well, the bigger moves are something that he thinks about a lot. It was interesting to hear him talk about staffing and looking for people that are aligned with his vision. He had said that, you know, his staffers have to have the mindset that if there's 100 percent chance that just as acquired today for three and a half billion dollars or a 30 percent chance to do something revolutionary, he'd hope that his staffers would choose the latter. $3.5 billion is a big freaking number. I'd have a hard time saying no to that. I don't know why you can't say yes to both. Well, you're also not the guy putting the money in.
[00:46:54] As Tetrick: Yeah, this is true. This is true.
[00:46:55] Ad Read: If you're somebody working there who, I would assume these people with all of their backgrounds are being paid pretty nicely. And also it was interesting just in the tour, you know, these people were very clearly proud of the workspace and the equipment, even though like, you know, Carol and I didn't know what half the stuff was or, you know, honestly.
[00:47:16] Carol Ortenberg: I just didn't want to touch it.
[00:47:17] Ad Read: There were like all these things moving up and down and testing things. And, you know, there was one.
[00:47:22] Carol Ortenberg: We know I'm uncoordinated. Landis is laughing. It would have been bad.
[00:47:26] Ad Read: So point being, I think right now, it seems like he's got the team that's bought into it and he's given them the tools to, you know, do this work that he wants them to do. So, I mean, I think it was interesting to hear him. talk about that as like a hiring philosophy for sure, especially in a market like San Francisco that, you know, for people doing, you know, technical things, there's no shortage of options. I just really like to see what happens if a, you know, $4 billion offer comes along and he passes on it. It just, it takes me back to the tech days and Andrew Mason from Groupon who had a crooked number put in front of him and he's like, nah, we're not going to do that. And then it just all falls off from there. I mean, I think there's a, you know, if you get to that spot it's easy to be brazen before the money's put in front of you and then you know you gotta ask yourself what are you gonna do when it actually comes in and i think there's also the thinking of a maybe we can do both you know finding the right partners gonna put that four billion is the is the most important thing
[00:48:18] Carol Ortenberg: I think it's also, I mean, he's come to realize that not everyone is the right fit for his company. So, Ray, if that's not the decision you would support, you're just not the right fit for the company. And that's okay. You might miss out on some great people, but in the long term...
[00:48:33] Ad Read: It's a real Tony Hsieh from Zappos kind of mentality. Pay you to quit kind of thing, yeah.
[00:48:37] Carol Ortenberg: Exactly. You need the people who buy into your vision and your mission. And yeah, you might miss out on some great people, but there's somebody else who's a better fit for you.
[00:48:47] Ad Read: And Josh has run into this problem before. I mean, we should note that last year in July, he lost his entire board. And there were some issues there with people thinking that, you know, they weren't aligned with his vision and they weren't aligned with the future of the company. And, you know, he talked a little bit about sort of facing the media. There was a media storm about that. I mean, it was covered in every major media publication that I can remember. And you guys talked a bit about trying to tune out that noise and what it takes to do that. And I thought that was a pretty interesting part of the interview as well.
[00:49:18] Carol Ortenberg: kind of bad, right? Like the average new entrepreneur doesn't have this much pressure on him and this many eyes watching him. So sometimes, you know, these things are happening in the background. They just don't get covered by the New York Times and CNBC and Bloomberg. I can't imagine the pressure that puts on a company on every decision you're making when all eyes are on you.
[00:49:40] Ad Read: Especially when you've got a lot of competition in this arena as well. And you want to be the one who's out leading, you know, out leading the pack. But this comes with the territory though, you know, you raise a lot of money. You put a stake in the ground that you're going after this disruptive, crazy innovation, and it happens. I mean, we saw it with our much-talked-about Juicero as well. I think a lot of these sort of stumbling points of turnover, board issues, pivots, they're just magnified because it's easy sort of like fodder for media. And I don't know, it's interesting, right? Damn media.
[00:50:17] Carol Ortenberg: It does.
[00:50:17] Ad Read: It's just always getting in the way of growth, right?
[00:50:20] Carol Ortenberg: It does speak to how crazy it is that like now food is a hot topic for news to cover. I feel like this is something new. 10 years ago, you know, nobody would really be as interested in a vegan mayo company.
[00:50:33] Ad Read: I feel like those publications care less about that and they care more about trying to find the next unicorn and they find a company that got a hundred million invested in it and then they want to report on it.
[00:50:42] As Tetrick: It's hot. Yeah.
[00:50:44] Ad Read: That's exactly it. I mean, it's like, they just follow the money, whatever it is. Yeah. Obviously, we're all benefiting from the massive investment in the food and beverage space, as are probably most of our listeners. I think it's got its pros and cons, of course, but I'd imagine a company like Just, they're not going to get off the hook easy for any misstep they have, which is just part of the process. You're under a microscope, for sure.
[00:51:09] Carol Ortenberg: I would bet in 10 years, it makes them a stronger and better company that they've had these people looking at them because there is more pressure on them to do things quickly, to scale, to grow.
[00:51:19] Ad Read: Well, I think what's neat about it, and you bring up 10 years, and I think, you know, one of the takeaways I really had from everything we saw and from talking to Josh is that, you know, in 10 years, it's either going to be this company has crashed and burned and is gone, or, you know, it's going to be something where we're looking back and, Like, wow, that was pretty interesting that we saw this company that was just making mayo, right? It doesn't seem like there's kind of an in-between for a company like this. What I really enjoyed about the interview, though, was all the parallels between Josh and Pat Brown at Impossible Foods, who are really trying to accomplish very similar things, and how they're looking at things from saying, well, we can't fix meat, we have to fix the foundation of what makes meat what it is and go back and rethink the way that people understand these things, that meat doesn't have to necessarily come from animals. We have to find these new tools to work with. And it's really nice to hear two well-funded organizations with similar missions that have similar ideas on how to get there. Is this like Jobs versus Larry and Sergey? Is that what's going on here?
[00:52:23] Carol Ortenberg: I think that's an interesting comparison. I mean, while they both have the same mission, they're going about it very different ways. Jon Landis, stay tuned for Ethan Brown. He'll be coming up on Taste Radio soon, founder of Beyond Meat.
[00:52:36] Hampton Creek: Next week.
[00:52:37] Carol Ortenberg: There we go. We're on a meat bonanza here at Taste Radio.
[00:52:42] Ad Read: The non-Slaughterhouse variety.
[00:52:43] Carol Ortenberg: The non-Slaughterhouse variety.
[00:52:44] Ad Read: We'll see. You know, it could be like a Jobs, you know, Google, Apple type thing, but these companies really need each other because there are so many barriers to... Yeah, but it's food. Just like in computers and phones and the internet and stuff that, you know, the competition was there. This is... It's food. We know food, you know?
[00:53:04] Fora Foods: We do know food.
[00:53:05] Ad Read: We've known food longer than we've known computers.
[00:53:07] Carol Ortenberg: But we don't know food in this form and we don't know food made this way.
[00:53:10] Ad Read: There's definitely, they need each other to grow adoption with general consumers in the country, I believe. We need an episode out of Slaughterhouse. My grandpa sold his Slaughterhouse like 30 years ago.
[00:53:22] As Tetrick: Lambs is gonna dress up as a leather face.
[00:53:24] Ad Read: No more Arsenal talk, guys. Yeah. All right, guys, what's better than butter? For me, there's nothing. I think we kind of talked about this at the beginning of the episode, right? Kombucha? Kombucha, it may be. But if you could create a dairy-free alternative that looks, tastes, and acts like the real thing, Geez, I'd be happy as a clam, wouldn't I? I think we talked about this last week as well with Fora Foods. These are the guys that make Faba Butter. It's a vegan butter made primarily from aquafaba, which is that viscous liquid derived from cooking chickpeas and coconut oil. I can't believe it's not butter. I can't believe it's not butter. Who was gonna say it first? It was Mike. All right, we caught up with FOCO founder, Aidan Altman at the 2018 Winter Fancy Food Show, where he spoke to us about the innovative company and its star products in this edition of Elevator Talk.
[00:54:12] Hampton Creek: It's time for our Elevator Talk, where we put a founder in an elevator with their dream investor. Let's hear what happens. What is your company's mission?
[00:54:21] As Tetrick: Our mission is to replace dairy products on a whole and create a more sustainable food system.
[00:54:27] Hampton Creek: What is your product and how is it different?
[00:54:29] As Tetrick: Our product really is the true replacer to dairy butter. We've mimicked the exact same nutritional profile of an artisan, grass-fed, Kerrygold-type butter, but we've done so by using very clean-label, sustainable ingredients. Aquafaba is our staple platform ingredient that actually is an incredible clean-label emulsifier that ends up giving our product a really delicious depth of flavor as well as a great, creamy, dairy-like mouthfeel. So it really stands apart on sustainability, flavor, taste. And we've even had Michelin star chefs who've used it and begged with it and swear by it.
[00:55:02] Hampton Creek: Who's your target audience? And how do you quantify the market opportunity?
[00:55:05] As Tetrick: So you look at our target market, we're really looking for millennial-minded consumers, people who want more sustainable products and care about that in the beginning. Yeah, our eventual goal is to really target the conventional mainstream consumers who would buy animal-based products, because obviously we really would like to replace dairy butter, but the only way to do so is to convince everyone that we have a product that is that one-to-one replacer, which we are really confident in doing so.
[00:55:32] Hampton Creek: What stage of growth is your company in?
[00:55:34] As Tetrick: We actually just launched our company, but I have a background. I had another food company and my business partner comes from the food investment baking world. So we have a really good grasp in the industry. We know a lot of distributors and retails already. So we hope to leverage our network to have a big food service launch next month and then shortly after our big retail launch as well.
[00:55:52] Hampton Creek: What has been the biggest surprise since starting your company?
[00:55:55] As Tetrick: Initially, we were going to target simply retail. We didn't really have a focus on the larger industrial food service market as well. But especially from doing this show, we've been talking to airlines, distributors, and industrial accounts in France and all over the world. We think that's going to be a huge channel for us to get our product out there to a lot of people.
[00:56:15] Hampton Creek: What do you need from a partner or an investor to go next level?
[00:56:18] As Tetrick: We are looking for someone who really can add a lot of value in terms of understanding the plant-based space very well, and on a larger scale, understanding the dairy space as a whole. We want someone who will be invested in our mission, not someone who will simply give us money because they think we have a money-making idea, which we hope we do, of course. But we want someone who really will get behind this, believes in it, and stands for the same values that we do. Why should I invest in you? You would invest in us because we have a product that really can win over the hearts and minds of the greater masses. We offer no behavioral shift on our products from buying into the store, to tasting it, to cooking with it. Our product can really make a difference in the world and we have the skills and tools to do so.
[00:57:03] Ad Read: It shows that you don't need a hundred million dollars to really disrupt what food is. These guys are bootstrapping it, they're scrappy. So the entrepreneurs out there listening, if you want to do something revolutionary, you don't need to raise, you know, nine figures. Pretty excited to see how they go to market and to see how they scale it. Obviously it hasn't gone, you know, it hasn't, it's not live yet. It's not out in the universe, but can't wait for you guys to get your hands on it. Well, that's why you need a hundred million dollars. There you go. I can't wait for the five gallon drum to show up here at BevNET headquarters.
[00:57:32] Carol Ortenberg: It will be interesting to see if consumers gravitate to this. Like, do they really feel like they need Faba Butter substitute? I've spoken to so many people saying- Well, Ray clearly does. Yes. I think Ray's going to moisturize with it.
[00:57:46] Ad Read: He's thinking about it.
[00:57:46] Carol Ortenberg: You can see. I'm thinking about it, actually.
[00:57:48] Ad Read: You know what? I could use more Aquafaba in my life. Aquafaba bath? Yeah. Well, I mean, Carol, you know, margarine has been around for a long time. Need more gallons? You know, alternative butters are definitely a thing in the marketplace. They're just not very good.
[00:58:00] Carol Ortenberg: Totally. But do millennials buy? I can't believe it's not butter anymore. Oh, you can't compare the two. Carol, you're killing me. Geez. Sorry, Fork.
[00:58:09] Ad Read: Geez, do millennials buy their own groceries? Well done, well done. All right, this brings us to the end of episode 95. We hope you enjoyed it as much as we did. So much butter. Ray needs to go eat butter. I'm craving some- Sticks Faba Butter. Some sticks, no.
[00:58:23] As Tetrick: I want Faba Butter. Amazing chickpea butter.
[00:58:24] Ad Read: Yeah, I want it on my lab-grown meat. Jeez. All right, thanks so much to our guests, As Tetrick and Aidan Altman. If you have a question, comment, idea for future podcasts, please send us an email. The email address is askatasteradio.com. All right, on behalf of John, John, Mike, and Carol, I'm Ray Latif. We'll talk to you next time.
