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[00:00:52] Ray Latif: Hello, dear friends, and thanks for tuning in to Taste Radio, the number one podcast for anyone building a business in food or beverage. I'm Ray Latif, the editor and producer of Taste Radio, and I'm with my co-host for this episode, John Craven and Melissa Traverse. Melissa, is it three weeks in a row? It's three out of four. Yeah, I think it's three out of four. Yeah, I'm just locking people in closets and making my way into here. I like it. Let's go for six, seven, you know, six out of seven. Did you know now 56 is the thing? 56. What? That's what I heard from my kids like two weeks ago. It could be over.
[00:01:31] John Craven: Or they were just making stuff up.
[00:01:32] Ray Latif: Yeah. Right. They were torturing me as usual. I think, you know what, I did hear that there's a lower number that's now popular for some reason. It's still consecutive numbers, but I didn't know it was five, six. Oh God. Help us all. Well, hope everyone's having a pleasant and safe holiday break. Now is the time to be with your families and not worry so much about the future, but the future is upon us. We'The Only about a week, less than a week away from 2026. Sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes I get a little anxious about the new year. Most of the time, I'm just pretty chill about it, but I don't know, something about 2026, I'm feeling slightly off. It's like little Sunday scaries, but for the new year, I'm not sure. Do you guys feel that? What could go wrong, Ray? What could go well? Jeez, a lot. Are you generally an optimistic person, John? This is, you know, you're an entrepreneur.
[00:02:21] John Craven: Do I look optimistic? No. I mean, you know, you just, obviously we got to go back to January, do it all over again here. And I think generally speaking, try to take the approach of, man, if it was a good year, next year will be better. And if this wasn't a great year, next year will be better. You know?
[00:02:42] Ray Latif: It's interesting though, you said we'll do it all over again. And I think for some folks that might mean, well, just repetition and kind of the rinse and repeat of business, which I know you're not like that, but how do you stay motivated? How do you think about what's possible versus what we've already done?
[00:03:01] John Craven: Well, first I accept that I have no choice, but soldier on. I mean, that's kind of, you know, life of a business is not for sale is what we're trying to say. But I think it's just one of those things that you have to get used to as an entrepreneur. And if you can't get used to it, then maybe it's not for you.
[00:03:24] Ray Latif: Get used to the fact that there are some things that you'll have to do over and over again, and then you have to kind of look beyond that as well?
[00:03:30] John Craven: I think every type of business has its periods that you know are maybe easier or more challenging than others. There are points where, I don't know, you might take some punches and, you know, you just try to brace yourself for them or maybe try to figure out how to I don't know, not get overwhelmed or too stressed out about them and try to find, you know, the opportunity and any sort of bump in the road. I mean, I think there, there kind of always is one and it's that old fight or flight kind of thing sometimes that, especially, I don't know, I remember the days of being early stage entrepreneur where, you know, yeah, there are people that when something doesn't work out, they pack up and go home or go back to whatever their career was before. Or there's the people that. Figure out how to work through it and hopefully come out better. I can't ever imagine you going back to work at Dunkin Donuts Unless Anyone needs crappy AI videos or something, but it's in demand Maybe not the crappy ones, but they are pretty good.
[00:04:38] Ray Latif: Okay. Well good to know I mean assuming you like Wilford Brimley, but anyway Mike Younger listeners are not gonna get that reference, but that's all right.
[00:04:47] Melissa Traverse: That's all right.
[00:04:48] Ray Latif: Yeah, you know on the heels of our LA events I Felt like there was a lot of enthusiasm Yes, there always is at these events, but a lot of enthusiasm for the future of the industry and for next year in particular. Melissa, you talk to a lot of folks. Let's, let's accentuate the positive here. Let's talk about what's going to be great about next year. You know, it's always darkest before the dawn and, and certainly... Batman reference, I like it. Was that a Batman reference? Oh, okay. But certainly when there are times of challenge, they always create opportunities for folks. So if you can find the opportunity and the challenge, then you'll be doing well. When you think about things like the FDA is pushing the removal of synthetic dyes, that gives a a ton of opportunity for innovation, for suppliers, for the brands in our audience who are already doing all of those things. They're very well positioned to be ahead of the pack as those changes are coming down the pike. People are eating from home more since the pandemic, and that doesn't seem to be changing. I also, I was listening to Marketplace and there was an interview with a beef farmer highlighting the fact that beef sales are higher than they've ever been while production is lower than it's been, I think, since the 1950s. So I think that shows that consumers are still spending. They're still going to buy the things that they want to buy. CPG sales are never going away because people have to eat and drink. So I think in our industry, we're probably more well positioned to experience growth and opportunity and innovation than many others.
[00:06:25] John Craven: Well, also, I think we don't need the overall CPG industry to grow a lot for there to be places where emerging CPG can have massive growth. Because I've said this before, and I'll say it again at the end of the year here, but there are a lot of dollars stuck in these legacy brands or legacy product types that consumers are moving on from. where big CPG is just slow to react or just going to ride it out to the bitter end. And as long as that's true, there's always opportunity out there. And I think also as maybe there's economic uncertainty, not that there ever isn't economic uncertainty somewhere, but People largely aren't going to downgrade their lifestyle in a way that, you know, fine, maybe a brand that is selling a super premium version of some functional product, maybe they'll downsize to a or downgrade to a cheaper competitor, but they're not just going to leave. the health and sort of life choices that they made, consumers that is, to go back to like a McDonald's or something like that. And last thing I'll say in terms of, you know, things that I guess make me feel good about next year is, you know, we ended this year, you know, the second half in particular, like, There were some solid deals this year, you know, there's a lot of M&A activity and it's not just deals from like the usual suspects, you know, even stuff like a Laird acquiring like Navitas. That's good. That's good for society that we're creating more options for exit of a CPG business. I'm not going to get into whether that was maybe a good deal or a one of need, but I You know, I think the optics of that are just that there's more ways to like cash in and that along with some of the bigger deals that we've had are sort of fuel for CPG investment. So I don't know. I mean, I think we're in an okay spot. Not that there aren't, I don't know, maybe reasons to worry too, but yeah, I feel pretty good.
[00:08:29] Ray Latif: I want to go back to your point about consumers not willing to downgrade once they've already experienced a premium or better-for-you product. And I'm thinking about my conversation with Eugene Kang, who is the founder of Archer, which is a brand of better-for-you meat sticks. And in our conversation, he said, consumers are going to have to decide what value really means to them. Value doesn't always mean lower price. It's about creating consistent quality that people trust, not just chasing trends. And I thought that was a brilliant point about what value represents to consumers these days.
[00:09:05] John Craven: That is a really good way to put it. And I think, you know, there is sometimes in mainstream media, this comparison that, I don't know, McDonald's hamburgers the same as, I don't know, like a grass fed beef or something like that, or comparing an Archer product to a Slim Jim. If you've made those changes. Sure. Like on a piece of paper, yes, you could get a hamburger or a meat stick cheaper, but like, it's going to have a lot of stuff in it. It's going to maybe make you not feel as good. Right? I mean, that is like the side effect of food. And I think, you know, to my point of like, not downgrading that, like if your choice is like, I don't know, get a cheaper car or go on a less luxurious vacation or feel like crap in your day-to-day life. I don't know, for most people, like, you know, what's going to give there.
[00:09:53] Ray Latif: Yeah. I also think that the exposure to emerging brands and better for you brands is bigger than it ever has been. And you know, people are shopping at stores they hadn't necessarily shopped at before. And I think the larger retailers are aware of that. You know, you see Sprouts and what they've done with their innovation set, you know, Whole Foods has consistently introduced new and emerging brands to their shelves. And the result is that. the mass retailers are catching up as well and introducing new brands like a Harken Sweets, for example, which is a brand of better for you candy bars. And, you know, I spoke with their founder earlier this year for Taste Radio, and it's just Walmart, when they saw that opportunity and they saw the trends and they saw the value they could bring to that cash register, I guess, area of the store by introducing a brand like Harken, I think that has been a long time in the making. They saw that people were shopping at a Whole Foods and looking for better for you options for candy bars. They saw that, to your point, John, you know, the legacy brands and companies have been doing the same thing over and over and over and just not really introducing anything in the way of innovation for modern consumers. And here we have a Harken Sweets doing just that. And a Walmart, I wouldn't say rewarding them, but embracing what they're doing. As organic growth slows and big CBG, not only does that support M&A transactions, but it also supports big retailers like Walmart, listening to their consumers and focusing on products and brands like that. Yeah. And another way that awareness is growing for smaller brands is through tech. I mean, you think about AI and the impact it's already had. You know, I didn't realize how many people use ChatGPT like all the time, but there are people who just rely on it as much as people used to rely on Google. I still use Google most of the time, but people use ChatGPT in the same way and get more information, more specific information. So I used it today. I was just, well. I had seen this headline earlier this year about Walmart partnering with OpenAI to create AI-first shopping experiences. And so I tried to stay, I'm like, okay, Walmart, tell me where I can find some better for you options when it comes to gummies. And there were brands in there that I wasn't even aware of. And they gave you an option, a link to buy it right then and there, which I thought was pretty interesting. So again, take advantage of the fact that tech and AI isn't just about videos and so on and so forth. You know, no offense to people who do that kind of stuff, but it is an opportunity to build For Awareness about what you're doing and create sales almost on the spot. I mean, through ChatGPT, I'm not advertising for us, endorsing ChatGPT. I'm just saying it's, you know, an option that wasn't there, let's say last year. It existed last year. Did it? Okay, well I think more people are aware of it. They have advertisements. Did you see those? They have advertisements in Boston. No, for Chats GPT. They had them in LA. Yeah, same thing. They had like outdoor advertising. Did you see those? No. Yeah. I was like, wait, why is there outdoor advertising? That seems really counterintuitive, right? Yeah. Going from the analog to the digital, but this is going from- Old school advertising works. Digital to analog. I don't know. Yeah. I subscribed to a streaming service to watch a particular show. And I went for the cheaper version because I just couldn't help myself. So you have to watch the ads. And I swear 90 percent of the ads are generated by AI. And I also think that the prevalence of AI and the ease of which people can use it also presents an opportunity for creators to be more authentic and to create, I don't know, content that isn't garbage, if you're really If you're really focusing on doing that, because there really is such a glut of AI garbage that I think with a little bit of intention, you can also set yourself apart from the crowd in that regard.
[00:13:45] John Craven: Man, we could have a whole other podcast on this that no one wants to listen to, probably.
[00:13:50] Ray Latif: No, I think we'll probably have an episode about predictions for 2026 and beyond. And I think AI will factor very heavily into that conversation. In the meantime, talk about content creation. There's a website that I love. Well, a content company that I love called Food Beast. You ever follow The Only Instagram? They visit a lot of restaurants, fast, casual restaurants. They're always eating interesting things. They go to Disney World a lot and try some of the new products they sell at that place. Love that place. Yeah. Okay. You go there a lot. So the founders have created, the founders of Foodbeast that is, have created a venture fund. It's called Foodbeast Ventures. And their first investment is a hummus brand called Habiza. And it's described as a Gen Z inspired hummus brand. It's really creamy, a lot creamier than the hummus brands that you typically see in stores. I remember we sat down with the founder of Habiza for an episode of Elevator Talk and I was really happy to see this because here's an early stage brand, like a lot of them out there, that need people to know about what they're doing. And Foodbeast has really embraced the fact that this is a different kind of hummus, that it's a creamier version, that it's a It, you can easily describe the difference in flavor and texture of this brand.
[00:15:12] John Craven: It's really good. It is really good. I like lived off of that during our winter events. I bought a bunch of marijuana. Nice.
[00:15:18] Ray Latif: It's really good. Yeah. And so Foodbeast has not only been highlighting this brand in its Instagram posts, they decided to make a financial investment as well. So. Congratulations to Habiza's founder, Jonathan Strauer. I believe that's how you pronounce his name. It's S-R-O-U-R. But I have a feeling we're going to be seeing a lot more of Habiza in news stories and retail as well. Described as the world's Creamy Hummus. Have you ever had Habiza? No, and I was just going to ask what makes it so creamy? What's their secret?
[00:15:51] John Craven: Oh, I don't know what the secret is. It's like there's some hummus that it just, it's like a clump of cement. Yeah. But this is not that.
[00:15:58] Ray Latif: They specifically called out, the founders of Foodbeast, specifically called out the fact that this was one hummus brand that didn't taste like any of the others because of its creaminess. And on their website announcing this investment, they actually have a video about how they make the product. And they use soaked chickpeas, which apparently a lot of brands do not use soaked chickpeas. And I believe they also add ice cubes. They add, I guess, water to make it more moist. But there's a more involved process than I think what you would typically see for mass produced hummus brands.
[00:16:39] John Craven: Well, the garlic, I think it's garlic, green onion or green onion garlic. I don't know which way it is, but that flavor in particular is delicious. Definitely try it.
[00:16:49] Ray Latif: Well, you get the thumbs up from John Craven, which is a important recommendation.
[00:16:53] John Craven: Yeah.
[00:16:53] Ray Latif: Yeah. All right. I think it's time that we talk about sparkling coconut water. Is it? How many new sparkling coconut water brands have we seen come to market in the last couple of years? I feel like all of a sudden we're seeing a lot more.
[00:17:06] John Craven: I mean, it's been a thing since the early days of coconut water.
[00:17:10] Ray Latif: Yeah, but it was always like the sub-est of sub-segments within the coconut water category.
[00:17:15] John Craven: Yeah, no, no. I mean, I think the timing of products that are doing it now, like SunBear, which we're holding. Strange Water. Once Upon a Coconut.
[00:17:23] Ray Latif: Once Upon a Coconut, sure.
[00:17:25] John Craven: I think it's better timing now, like people understand what it is. And there's also just this clearly, cause we've been talking about this for forever, like a resurgence of like healthy sparkling. And I think now seems like a more worthy time to try and see if those things will converge into one product.
[00:17:47] Ray Latif: Well, the knock on coconut water for a long time was that it was too much sugar, right? It was good for you, but electrolytes... I don't know if that was the knock.
[00:17:56] John Craven: I think the knock was like, I don't know, like the taste, or I don't know, I'm allergic to tree nuts and therefore can't have a coconut.
[00:18:03] Ray Latif: Well, what I like about this Sun Bear that I'm holding in my hand, and this is their watermelon variety, is that it's only 30 calories per 12 ounce can. And it includes five grams of sugar with no added sugar. And the ingredients are carbonated water, organic coconut water, watermelon juice concentrate, organic lemon juice concentrate, and organic natural flavors. So this is my first time trying this.
[00:18:27] John Craven: Don't open it too close to the laptop.
[00:18:29] Ray Latif: That's fairly low for a 12 ounce can.
[00:18:32] Melissa Traverse: Yeah.
[00:18:32] Ray Latif: Yeah. And it actually tastes more like a tropical sparkling water than it does a coconut water in some ways. Let me take another sip here. Are there other ingredients besides just the coconut water? The watermelon juice and the lemon juice and then other added natural flavors. Yeah, I almost feel like this is a coconut water for people who don't necessarily love the taste of coconut water.
[00:18:55] John Craven: Yeah, I mean, I think a product like this really is one where the nuances and how the consumer interprets them are going to matter. Like, do they see this as a product that's, man, if you like coconut water, here's one with bubbles, or is it, I'm looking for clean ingredient, low calorie, like soda, sparkling beverage, and this ticks that box?
[00:19:20] Ray Latif: I think if someone is drinking that because they don't necessarily love coconut water, it might be a tough choice to make because the coconut aspect is so heavily advertised on the can. Yeah, it's right on front of pack here. Sun Bear is in a vertical logo or it's a vertical logo on the side of the can here, almost the side of the can. Sparkling water is right at the top of the label hierarchy. The watermelon varieties at the bottom is a collet of 350 milligrams of electrolytes at the top of the can. Yeah, I'm not sure what to say about, you know, using coconut water as the lead here, but clearly that's who they are. That's the brand they are. So I think it's a delicious product. I wonder if it's going to bring new consumers to the coconut water category or just quench the thirst of those who are looking for a sparkling version.
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[00:21:24] Ray Latif: Alright John's been waiting to talk about his cheese. I don't I'm gonna just pause my own I'm not a big I'm not a big cheese guy at least when it's Raw. If it's cooked, pizza is great. Love pizza. But I'm just not a big cheese eater.
[00:21:42] John Craven: Well, I'm curious to know how you'll feel about this one. This is a Rebel Cheese from Austin, Texas. This is a plant-based artisan crafted cheese. The exact words they describe it. And this one is a truffle brie. So it's like cave aged and everything. This stuff's really, really good. I don't know if you're like a brie nerd that this would fool you, but... I said I would shut up, but no, I'm not a brie nerd. I'm not a brie nerd either, but I feel like this... I served one of these to friends who didn't realize it was plant-based. It's got a little bit of truffle flavor to it, and it looks like... I'm not going to open this, but it's got the kind of proper rind to it and all that. Really exceptional stuff. I kind of like this just in that it's not screaming plant based at you. Like it's kind of a little more low key, you know, Rebel Cheese kind of gives a little nod to like they're doing something different. It's just kind of in the fine print, but really good stuff.
[00:22:45] Ray Latif: There's so many people who avoid dairy, even if they're not vegetarians or vegans or whatever. So it's so nice to be able to offer everybody something that just tastes good. I mean, if I saw that in a store, I would not think that's plant-based at all. And the best compliment they could possibly get, the founders that is, is that people didn't know the difference. People don't want compromise.
[00:23:05] John Craven: I also like on the ingredient list, it's got truffle juice. Stop yeah, you had this great You were doing really well John. It's funny like I don't know read many many labels in my day I'm not sure I've seen truffle juice on a cheese product that sounds unpleasant nobody again really good I'll give one of Melissa.
[00:23:31] Ray Latif: I know you don't want to try it, but I'm good on that and I don't need to be refrigerated I assume it does. Yeah. Okay.
[00:23:38] John Craven: I mean, it's only been out of the fridge for a little bit.
[00:23:40] Ray Latif: So, okay. And you've got some, well, it looks like cocktail. This is more your speed.
[00:23:44] John Craven: I like that. Yeah.
[00:23:45] Ray Latif: Cocktail mixtures. There we go.
[00:23:46] John Craven: Uh, this stuff's called The Only mix. It's basically like HPP juice. Okay. Specifically designed for cocktails. Um, This is from the founder of the former ready to drink cocktail brand called Drinksmith. Um, so he sort of moved on into basically producing high quality cocktail mixes. They've got a cucumber, margarita, a margarita, just classic, and then a Paloma. I'm going to butcher this one. Cantarito, which is a lime, orange, grapefruit, agave syrup, sea salt. So, you know, I think what they created with Drinksmith, like the actual sort of juice component was to some extent the star of the show and whatever, I guess business model didn't work out, but onto just producing high quality, you know, bar mix products. So this is the second batch I've tried. The first ones were, uh, pretty darn good. So.
[00:24:49] Ray Latif: I love the packaging design. You really get to see the liquid inside and the type. It takes up a small amount of the package. It's really attractive.
[00:24:59] John Craven: Yeah. And I mean, I think this stuff, like there have been brands out there that have tried to just create kind of high quality bar juice. But, you know, I like that with this, it's sort of like he's got the agave and the sort of salt. It's like, you know, just literally one part booze, two parts mix.
[00:25:17] Ray Latif: That is often the reason people look for cocktail mixes is they just want an easy option for making them at home, which is one part this, one part that without a lot of. I mean, those are shaken. These are clearly for shaken cocktails.
[00:25:31] John Craven: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And a lot better than just getting some crappy shelf stable, I don't know, mix or juice, man. That's like a good way to ruin good booze. Exactamundo.
[00:25:44] Ray Latif: All right. Melissa has a whole bunch of stuff. What looks like some really delicious treats here. You have a meat stick, which for some people. Oh, but that's a burski. Oh, burski. That's good. That's good stuff. So I was talking to the founder of Berski at Nosh Live, and he gave me some of these meat sticks. These are the pasture-raised, grass-fed, grass-finished beef sticks, and they have an ancestral blend. So 25% beef liver, 5% beef heart. I really want to love the taste of these, but I do find that I get a little bit stuck in the gaminess of the organ meat. But just from a health perspective, I do really think they provide, you know, so many great vitamins and minerals. I have been eating them and I'm hoping that my taste buds sort of acclimate because I almost see it as like a supplement. I think you're right. It is supplement-ish and that's probably, I don't know, I'm not describing it the way they would probably describe it, but if you don't want to eat liver at home, even though there are a lot of benefits to it, I mean, this is a good option for you. Liver is known for rich vitamin. Iron. Iron. Okay. Yeah. So it is a little bit gamey, but you can also taste the real ingredients in this product. There are some beef stick, beef jerky brands that taste pretty artificial. I mean, certainly the legacy ones, but Berski, I feel like is the real deal. I'm committed to retraining my taste buds to Berski because I do think it's such a great product. I also have maybe the polar opposite over here. So I have some Swedish candy and I actually got these for the boys' Christmas stockings. And I think it's really interesting to see Swedish candy kind of exploding everywhere. I have Bubz Swedish candy, this I got at Target. And this is Soccer Bit. They also have an exclusive partnership with Target, not for this particular SKU, but for something else. Soccer bit is that an actual Swedish brand and are they both it's from Sweden. I know that soccer bit is Bubz I don't know if they are from oh yeah, no it is it says from Solna, Sweden So these are both Swedish products this soccer bit I actually got in some hipster store in Highland Park in LA And then I saw this very same product at World Market. I had no idea that World Market had such an amazing yeah Candy selection, but we really stocked up there and the product itself is great. They're non-gmo They don't have high fructose corn syrup. No artificial dyes, and they're really just so delicious so very excited about that Well done soccer bits delicious stuff, and it's spelled so CK er BIT and Bob's beautiful packaging gorgeous Bob's is B U B s yeah All right, I want to wrap the show here because I want to give you something, Melissa, because I don't know if I'm going to see you. So many presents. I don't know if I'm going to see you. Maybe I'll just give you the whole thing. Before New Year's, this is a hangover shot from our dear friends at Dirty Saint, who we met at BevNET Live and Brewbound Live. This is, and I've talked about this before, I think probably The Only hangover shot that has actually truly worked. And you take this after you drink. So you drink this the day after, the morning after you've had a couple of drinks. And I know you imbibe only on the weekends, but concerning it's, you know, New Year's Eve or it's right upon us anyway, I figured maybe I'd give this to you just in case. Well, I appreciate that, Ray. I have been having trouble with the alcohol lately, so we'll see. We'll see if this can help me out. I'm going to give it a shot. Specifically as it relates to not being able to have more than one drink, right?
[00:29:34] Melissa Traverse: Exactly. Exactly.
[00:29:36] Ray Latif: Not that you're generally having.
[00:29:38] John Craven: Right. I just can't stop drinking. Great way to end the podcast.
[00:29:46] Ray Latif: Well, no, I also want to make clear to our listeners that we love you guys and we really appreciate you tuning in every week and Show the love back, leave us a review. Yes, show the love back. Please leave us a review. On Apple Podcasts, very easy. Go to the Apple Podcasts app on your phone, scroll to the bottom, well, the bottom of our- Just ask ChatGPTN. Yeah, just scroll to the bottom of our page.
[00:30:06] John Craven: Oh, that's time for this.
[00:30:08] Ray Latif: And please click five stars and or leave a review for us. Thank you so much. Happy holidays. See you soon. Happy New Year. That brings us to the end of this episode of Taste Radio. Thank you so much for listening. Taste Radio is a production of BevNET.com Incorporated. Our audio engineer for Taste Radio is Joe Cracci. Our technical director is Joshua Pratt, and our video editor is Ryan Galang. Our social marketing manager is Amanda Smerlinski, and our designer is Amanda Huang. Just a reminder, if you like what you hear on Taste Radio, please share the podcast with friends and colleagues. And of course, we would love it if you could review us on the Apple Podcasts app or your listening platform of choice. Check us out on Instagram. Our handle is bevnettasteradio. As always, for questions, comments, ideas for future podcasts, please send us an email to ask at Taste Radio. On behalf of the entire Taste Radio team, thank you for listening, and we'll talk to you next time.
[00:31:07] John Craven: you
