[00:00:05] John Sorial: They say it takes doing something 10,000 times to be good at it. With over 60,000 beverage formulations, Flavor Man is better than good at making dreams into drinks. We are Flavor Man, and we partner with dreamers and entrepreneurs to not just get your flavors perfect, but help you develop your beverage product from start through finish. When you work with us, we're with you from startup to bottoms up. So let's get started at flavorman.com slash BevNET. Flavor Man, change what the world is drinking. And now, Taste Radio.
[00:00:45] Tadah Foods: Hey folks, thanks for tuning in to Taste Radio, the number one podcast for the food and beverage industry. I'm editor and producer Ray Latif, and you're listening to episode 197, which features an interview with Andrew Abraham, the founder and CEO of pioneering protein brand Orgain. Tune in on Friday, January 24th for episode 69 of our Taste Radio Insider Podcast, when we're joined by John Sorial, the founder of Tadah Foods, who discusses the ups and downs of running his falafel-centric brand, which recently won investment on the reality TV show Shark Tank. Just a reminder, if you like what you hear on Taste Radio, please share the podcast with friends and colleagues. And of course, we'd love it if you could review us on the Apple Podcasts app or your listening platform of choice. There's a phrase that comes up a few times in my conversation with Andrew Abraham, cautiously optimistic. A medical doctor turned entrepreneur, Andrew launched Orgain in 2009, having been inspired by his battle with cancer and frustration at the lack of options for healthy drinkable nutrition during his recovery. A first market brand of organic protein beverages, Orgain has since grown into a thriving platform for protein drinks, powders, and bars, and has become a household name at natural retailers. Andrew says that throughout the brand's development, there have been plenty of wins, but also mistakes, doubts, and dark times. Navigating those challenges, particularly within an increasingly competitive marketplace, isn't easy. However, Andrew credits a positive and steadfast belief in the company's mission, along with an aggressive innovation strategy, as the reason for its success. As part of an expansive interview, he discussed the creation and early development of Orgain, how he ran the company on his own for the first five years, and why Stonyfield Farm founder and Orgain advisor Gary Hirshberg urged him to focus on building a sustainable infrastructure. Andrew also explains how he defines success, why he describes himself as neck deep in innovation, and discusses his decision to sell a majority stake of Orgain and the keys to the deal. Hey folks, it's Ray with Taste Radio. I'm here at BevNET Live Winter 2019 inside the Taste Radio studio, sponsored by Blue Pacific Flavors, and I'm here with Andrew Abraham, or more specifically, Dr. Andrew Abraham, the founder and CEO of Orgain. Andrew, thank you so much for being with me. Thank you for having me. Do you prefer doctor? No, I prefer Andrew. Andrew's good, yeah.
[00:03:05] Shark Tank: How long have you been a doctor? It's been over nine, 10 years now that I've been a doctor.
[00:03:11] Tadah Foods: Yeah. Okay. Nine or 10 years. Yep. Doctor and entrepreneur. Yes. Yep. Doctor turned entrepreneur. Yep.
[00:03:18] Shark Tank: Which is more fun? Uh, the entrepreneur part for sure. Yeah. Yes, definitely. What, what was your focus as a doctor? Yeah, so I grew up actually, my whole family were in the medical field. So it was pretty much instilled in me since I was young. I would follow in the footsteps of my father and become a doctor. He was a pediatrician. So that was the plan. And so I went to medical school and I specialized in family medicine and specifically integrative medicine. But it was my senior year of high school that kind of spurred me on this journey to be an entrepreneur in the food and beverage space.
[00:03:51] Tadah Foods: You were kind of ahead of your time with integrative medicine then, I guess. We just had Dr. Andrew Weil on the show. Oh, cool. Yeah.
[00:03:56] Shark Tank: I looked up to him. Yeah.
[00:03:57] Tadah Foods: Yeah. It's interesting because I feel like it's one of those things that's not really well understood among most consumers, most mainstream folks.
[00:04:06] Shark Tank: Yeah, most don't quite get it yet, but I think actually there's been some pretty tremendous strides. A lot of people are realizing what they put in their bodies has a pretty profound effect on kind of how they feel. And in medicine, it's more cookbook medicine. So at my medical school, we got two weeks of nutrition, which is kind of backwards a little bit, but that's how it is. So everything I learned about nutrition was self-taught.
[00:04:27] Tadah Foods: Isn't that nuts when you think about it? Your doctor doesn't talk to you enough about nutrition because maybe it wasn't as emphasized when you were in medical school?
[00:04:35] Shark Tank: Yeah, it's a little absurd to be honest. I'm a cancer survivor and it was amazing to see the doctors, the oncologists tell their patients, you just need to get as many calories in. So get ice cream, mashed potatoes, everything that's hard. They're in cancer treatment. So these are people that need the highest quality nutrition. But the doctors, because I think they're naive and unfortunately uneducated when it comes to nutrition, they're recommending the worst foods that a cancer patient should avoid.
[00:05:01] Tadah Foods: Yeah, it's been pretty well documented about the founding of Orgain and the fact that you did have cancer as a 17-year-old?
[00:05:09] Shark Tank: I was 17, yeah, so it was my senior year of high school. That's right.
[00:05:12] Tadah Foods: They always say that necessity is the mother of invention. Was your cancer treatment sort of the mother for the invention of Organe?
[00:05:21] Shark Tank: Absolutely, absolutely. So I was undergoing treatment and chemo and all of the harsh protocols that I needed. Unfortunately, I kept losing more and more weight. So my doctor said, look, you need to get calories in you somehow. And he introduced me to this idea of liquid nutrition. At the age of 17, you don't think about drinking your calories because you're- Unless it's beer or something. Unless it's beer, right? And you're getting your calories from pizza and fast food and you're still in incredible shape. So it wasn't on my mind that I needed to get calories in. And he recommended a conventional shake and said, drink as much of this as you can. And that's what spurred me to kind of look into it a little bit and make sure that what I was putting in my body made sense. And that's when I realized that he was recommending a drink that had the worst possible ingredients for you. So that absolutely started my journey with Orgain and kind of learning about nutrition and seeing what I could do to solve this much needed piece.
[00:06:15] Tadah Foods: Did you start educating yourself about nutrition at that very time or did it take some time for you to really get involved in the space and see that you could actually make an impact via a consumer brand?
[00:06:27] Shark Tank: Yeah, no, it was during that time, so I couldn't be around too many people because my immune system was compromised. So in order to pass the time, I started reading books on wellness and nutrition and organic foods. And then five books turned into 20, turned into 100, turned into 120 books because I had so much free time on my hand. And it was then that I realized that you could really do something spectacular with nutrition. Now, I didn't plan on launching a food and getting into the beverage space at all. It was later, actually, in my residency when I did my medical training, many years had passed and I thought, well, I'm sure a company has done something better. Years have passed. And as I researched, it was more of the same and nothing had changed. So it was actually during my residency that I decided to launch Orgain. That was the birth of it.
[00:07:12] Tadah Foods: It takes a lot of money to create a new brand that's that's breaking every rule in the book. Yeah. How did you land financing early on?
[00:07:20] Shark Tank: Yeah, so it was a completely bootstrap operation. So it was a one man show for many years. I didn't have any financing in the beginning. It was just me and using, you know, self-funded in the beginning just to get it off the ground. And thankfully, because I was one employee and because I was working around the clock, I was able to bootstrap the company and take it to the level that it needed to be.
[00:07:42] Tadah Foods: You also have to convince, I mean, if you don't have any investors, you don't have to convince anyone. To get the product on shelf, you have to convince retailers as to why this product is needed, why it will, at the end of the day, improve sales or create new sales for their company. What was that conversation like? You know, who were the folks that you were looking at? I assume you're talking to Whole Foods and, you know, retailers like that. Were they immediately interested in the idea? Was there some convincing involved? You know, what was it like?
[00:08:12] Shark Tank: Yeah, so it was back in 2009 when we launched and I launched Orgain. Orgain was the combination of the word organic and our mantra was gain health, gain energy, gain life. So I combined organic and gain into Orgain. And in 2009, we launched the world's first ready to drink organic nutrition shake. So it was the first of its kind and it was very compelling. And Whole Foods was the retailer that took a keen interest in it because the conventional shakes on the market just weren't cutting it. And Whole Foods wanted to be on the forefront of innovation. And I think we were just very fortunate at the time to be the first. And I think that allowed us to get our first lucky break, which was a national launch actually at Whole Foods. That was kind of how we started into the market. It wasn't a regional play. We just went into all of Whole Foods at once. And I was able to take that story and that success story and tell other retailers about it.
[00:09:01] Tadah Foods: How did you learn about the business? Because, you know, you bootstrapped, you were a doctor, you know, maybe getting on shelf at Whole Foods, you get on there once, but if nobody's buying it... Yeah, you're in trouble. I mean, you've got a lot to learn and quickly. What was that process? Was it reading 120 books on business?
[00:09:18] Shark Tank: No, I mean, it's learning the hard way, right? I mean, I think one of my favorite quotes that I've heard is that being an entrepreneur is jumping off a cliff and building a plane on the way down. Oh, nice. I like that. And that's exactly what it was. So I jumped off, not knowing it was a cliff, and then quickly realizing it was. And, you know, you just kind of have to figure things out. And you make a lot of mistakes. I made a tremendous amount of mistakes. What were some of the mistakes that you made that you felt like maybe with the right training, you could have avoided? Well, you know, there was things that never crossed my mind, like you should really do a shelf study on a protein beverage that has 20 plus ingredients. I didn't do that. Our shelf study happened on shelf. So we made the product and put it on shelf. And I learned very early on that protein can congeal and can, you know, it turns into pudding. Your formulators didn't tell you that? You know, they told me, but I think we just didn't take the proper steps to make sure that we were going to do a 12, 18 month shelf life study. It was first to market. We wanted to be aggressive. And we learned the hard way that, you know, you should do your due diligence, be careful. And we learned early on that that was a key mistake.
[00:10:21] Tadah Foods: Otherwise your customers are going to be drinking sludge and drinking pudding.
[00:10:24] Shark Tank: Yeah. I mean, I got a, I got a call that the drinks were not pouring out and I, you know, I, I never, I never imagined that I would see that day, but I went to the store and bought a couple of shakes and I opened them and they truly did not pour out. Yeah, so that was the thing. Do you attach a spoon? What do you do? And obviously we had to do a withdrawal and figure it out. So there's a lot of mistakes that you learn, but because of those mistakes being so extreme and could have put me completely out of business, you learn. And today, you know, the due diligence we do is completely different.
[00:10:56] Tadah Foods: Who was your first hire? Who was the first person to kind of help you along this journey?
[00:11:00] Shark Tank: You know, it's interesting. I was the sole employee for about five years and built the business to a decent size. It was someone that was doing demos. It was a guy that was doing demos. His name was Todd. I saw him at Whole Foods and asked him to join us. And he started doing demos for us full time and helping me with events and so forth. And then from there, the first more senior hire was a vice president of sales. So that was our first hire.
[00:11:27] Tadah Foods: How do you run a company for five years by yourself, especially when you are into something? I mean, you must have known that this notion of a clean, organic protein shake, you were on the right track. I mean, why'd you wait five years, I guess, to...
[00:11:45] Shark Tank: It's a great question, and I think it's not because it was heroic on my side. It was more being naive. I didn't know any better. I thought, jeez, I have to hire someone. It's a six-figure hire. There's a bonus involved. There's all these things I just can't afford to. So I just kind of put my head down and just did it myself. Everything from customer service to ordering ingredients to logistics, all of it. But, you know, looking back, I could tell you that that wasn't smart. It's smart when you're early on to get help, get people that are smarter than you, surround yourself with people that are smarter than you. And, you know, looking back, I think, you know, while it worked for me, I think a vast majority of the time, that's not a good path to take. It's good to get people in early that can help you.
[00:12:26] Tadah Foods: We'll be right back with more from Andrew Abraham after this quick break.
[00:12:30] John Sorial: They say it takes doing something 10,000 times to be good at it. With over 60,000 beverage formulations, Flavorman is better than good at beverage development. Let us guide you through the process of getting your drink brand created. Flavorman.com slash BevNET. Flavorman, change what the world is drinking.
[00:12:51] Tadah Foods: When you did eventually make that first hire, did you have to start raising money at that point?
[00:12:55] Shark Tank: No, so actually, I didn't raise money. We've actually not taken any outside money except for one angel investor, who's Gary Hirshberg, who owns Stonyfield Yogurt. Right, the founder of Stonyfield Farm that was an early angel investor, but it was more strategic than anything.
[00:13:12] Tadah Foods: Sure.
[00:13:13] Shark Tank: I needed his help to kind of make sure that I didn't screw this up, essentially. But the company has not, outside of Gary's initial angel investment, we took zero outside dollars up until recently.
[00:13:24] Tadah Foods: Right. And we'll talk about recently in a sec. How do you convince Gary? Because I mean, I'm sure there are people out there who would love, who would say, I would love to have Gary Hirshberg or Seth Goldman or someone like that, an experienced, established entrepreneur who truly understands food and beverage at every level. How do you get that person on your side?
[00:13:43] Shark Tank: I was very fortunate. I actually didn't ask Gary. I had presented at a nutrition show. A nutritionist took samples of our product. His wife, Meg, this happened to be the nutritionist for Meg. Meg was undergoing breast cancer therapy at the time. And so our nutritionist went all the way back to Vermont with the samples. Meg tried it, took it home to Gary. He tried the product and called me and said, look, I think this is a product that needs to be everywhere and everywhere quickly, and I'd love to help. What was some of the advice that he gave you? How did you implement that advice? Yeah, one of the key pieces of advice early on from Gary was to build infrastructure. And I'd ask him, what's wrong with our infrastructure? And he'd say, you don't have any. So it was important early on to build it out. And I didn't see it the same way he did. Just for context, how do you define infrastructure? Yeah, infrastructure is getting kind of a team in place, getting a vice president of operations in place with a team under him, hiring a president, hiring a real marketer, a CMO. So Gary was instrumental in getting, you know, we had proof of concept. The brand was doing extremely well with very little investment, no marketing really at all. So then it was time to really build out the team and support it on the back end to make sure that we could have continued growth.
[00:14:57] Tadah Foods: Did you take a salary? It feels like with all the money, you know, to grow, you're just reinvesting in the business. Yeah. How did you stay cost efficient?
[00:15:05] Shark Tank: I didn't take a salary. My wife and I worked together. She was our accounts payable and accounts receivable. And it was just a focus on making sure that every dollar was spent efficiently. So Kathy, my wife, was the accounts payable and it didn't make any sense to her. She was writing a check for $50,000 and would ask me, I don't understand, I'm writing a check for $50,000 and you're telling me I can't decorate the kids' rooms? And it's hard to explain, but really early on, for that check that she's writing for $50,000, we're going to get a check back for $40,000. And it's hard for someone to really wrap their heads around that. Yeah, you're losing $10,000 every time you write a check. Right. It becomes very difficult. So, you know, it was one of those things that, you know, I just I believed in the brand. I knew that if we gave it the proper time that it would come to fruition and flourish. And thankfully it worked out.
[00:15:55] Tadah Foods: Patience is a virtue. It is. But you know, these days, it's hard if you don't. I mean, it sounds like you were building off of some of the funds that you had from being a doctor.
[00:16:07] Shark Tank: Yep. Yep. Being a doctor and I had a business prior, you know, I had some savings that I put into the business. It was a a real leap of faith, because if I lost it, it was going to be a big hit. I think it's important to realize that whatever dollar amount you have in your head that you think it's going to take to launch a company, you should multiply that. By? By three to five, I think, honestly. It really takes a lot more money, time, resources. You know, it takes a lot more bandwidth, everything. So I think as long as an entrepreneur goes into this venture knowing that it's going to be expensive and only get more expensive, I think you'll be okay. If you go in saying, I have $20,000 and I'm just going to have a cash flow, I think you're in for a bumpy ride.
[00:16:53] Tadah Foods: How do you eventually convince your wife that this was going to work? Families are extremely important in this business. I mean, if your family's not on board, I mean, that makes things doubly difficult, right?
[00:17:03] Shark Tank: It's very difficult. I mean, and I started Orgain when Kathy, my wife, was pregnant with our first child. So it's very, very difficult. And then we had our son, our second son, 15 months later.
[00:17:13] Tadah Foods: Wow, that's pretty quick.
[00:17:15] Shark Tank: Yeah, it was quick. It was quick and very difficult. And it was during that time when I had started Orgain. And at certain times, it didn't make sense, not only to her, but to me. You know, there's some dark times there where you kind of lock yourself in a room and ask yourself, is this really going to work? But I was seeing the letters come in from our consumers. I was seeing the feedback that we were getting. And I knew that if we could just weather the storm long enough, that Orgain would succeed. I believed it a bit more than my wife, so I had to convince her. But I think eventually she understood and was willing to take the risk with me. And I think that's really important. I mean, you're going kind of on this journey, and it's important to have the support of someone that believes in what you're doing, not necessarily to the same degree, but is willing to support you.
[00:17:58] Tadah Foods: Did it help that you were sort of a mission-based company and that you were trying to create a better option than what was out there, not just for cancer patients, but for consumers out there? You know, was that sort of your North Star more so than the money?
[00:18:15] Shark Tank: Absolutely. I mean, so I wasn't really thinking about money or anything, which I think this was a mission. And I just felt that there was a big hole in the marketplace and there was a big need. And I wanted to solve for that need. So the business actually happened kind of after that. The business happened just as a result of this mission. And I think that's what's allowed us to succeed. There are very few brands that have the authenticity from the beginning and are able to carry it through. And in my case, I was very fortunate because the authenticity was all I had. I wanted to solve for making a better for you nutritional shake. And thankfully we've been able to succeed in that manner.
[00:18:56] Tadah Foods: When you started to see Organe taking off and you started to build out that infrastructure, Was there a point where you said, okay, we've got to run really, really fast, or did you feel like you needed to kind of pull back on the reins and make sure that you were taking every next step really thoughtfully? Because sometimes you can't control growth.
[00:19:16] Shark Tank: I mean, yeah. So, I mean, what was your approach? So my approach is, and continues to be today, to run as quickly as possible every day. To constantly innovate, to always be aggressive. I think the best defense is having a super aggressive offense, always. At the same time, while you're being relentless in making sure that you're growing and doing everything that you can to build the business, you want to make sure that you also have that infrastructure that you mentioned. And make sure that, okay, it's wonderful that you have this growth, but is your quality there? Is your operations team built for this? can you support it financially? So it's really twofold. One is keeping your foot on the gas, and the other is trying to make sure that everything on the car is in place, right? Because a lot of times, and to your point, there are a lot of companies that grow and quickly realize that they're missing a wheel along the way. So it was a combination of both, but certainly the mentality has always been grow aggressively and do whatever you can to further the business, but be strategic and smart. One thing I'll point out is to always be cautiously optimistic, meaning I've been in the business now 11, 12 years, and I've always maintained an attitude of making sure that you remain down to earth and that no matter how quickly you're growing, you can realize things can absolutely go wrong. And I think if you maintain that healthy fear, it helps tremendously. You never want to get ahead of yourself.
[00:20:39] Tadah Foods: The fear you're talking about is real from everyone I've talked to, particularly in the beverage business. I just spoke with the founder of a craft soda brand called Dry Soda. Yeah, Cheryl. Yeah, Cheryl's great. And she talks about those dark times that you referenced where you're really nervous. I mean, it's a lonely place. It's a lonely nervousness. It is, yeah. And cautiously optimistic is important, but you know, what else did you have to do? I mean, how else did you stay cautiously optimistic? You know, what were some of the things that you did in your life? Was it sort of constant reinforcement of positive thinking? Was it exercise?
[00:21:19] Shark Tank: I mean, what were you doing? I mean, it's a combination of things. I think I was very fortunate to have life events that strengthened me in ways that others simply haven't. So, you know, dealing with cancer and getting down to a hundred pounds and potentially dying. It really puts things in perspective, right? So things going wrong with Orgain while they're, you know, at the time, seemingly catastrophic, in the big scheme of things, they're not so bad. So I think it's always maintaining perspective was extremely important for me. And till today, it's very important that no matter what happens, things are fine. You know, it's not something to to freak out about. So I think it's that it's also maintaining a positive attitude at all times. You know, when things go wrong, are you a leader that panics or are you a leader that really maintains a sense of calm and common sense and says, what are we going to do to solve it? And I've always fell into that category. I've really just tried my best to maintain an even keel and just figure it out.
[00:22:14] Tadah Foods: I can totally see that you have the most even-keeled personality, for lack of a better phrase, of many people that I've met. You have this sort of air of quiet confidence and peacefulness about you. Does it take a long time to train yourself to be able to do this? Or again, is it just sort of coming from a life event that was much bigger than, you know, most things in life.
[00:22:37] Shark Tank: I think that certainly contributed to it. But, you know, in everything that I do, I try to maintain a certain perspective and it helps tremendously. And I think also making sure that you have a team that is on the same page with you, that has the same demeanor. Right. You know, everyone I hire, I explain to them that You know, things are going well, but every day things go wrong. And more importantly for me, for anyone joining the company is not just when things are going great, but when we have hiccups and we have things going wrong, you know, how do you deal with them? And as long as they're kind of in the same, have the same mindset as I do, it helps because now it's not just myself. When I sit in a meeting with 20 or 30 others, they're on board, you know, and they understand kind of the path that we need to take to solving an issue.
[00:23:24] John Sorial: More from Andrew Abraham after this quick word from our sponsor.
[00:23:44] Tadah Foods: That relentless pursuit of growth, I want to just go back to that for a moment. I mean, there's also relentless competition in the space that you're in. Maybe five or six years ago, there were a handful of, if that many, you know, organic protein shakes. And now, I mean, there's quite a few. How do you consider the competition? Especially when some of these companies are very well funded, they can offer better price points than you. How does that factor into your growth strategy?
[00:24:13] Shark Tank: Yeah, I would say today it's more competitive than ever. I mean, I think when we first started, we were the only organic protein shake on shelf. And then we've attracted many companies to the party. which now I think is, you know, for us, we know we have a bullseye on our back, but we never look really, I mean, we certainly are aware of what the competition is doing. But one thing that's helped me more than anything is to just keep my eyes forward, really just focusing on what we're doing and what's working for us and pressing forward as aggressively as possible. I think some companies fall, they make a mistake. of looking at their competitors and really focusing on their competitors. I think what I like to do is focus on what's working for us and just look forward and have tunnel vision on what's the best route for Orgain. And that's served us well. Certainly, we try every product on the market as soon as it comes out. We assess it. We're not naive in that regard. But at the same time, we also stick to what we know and what's working, and we do our best to step on the gas as much as we can every day.
[00:25:13] Tadah Foods: How do you define success? I was moderating a Pitch Slam competition a couple days ago and one of the judges was just emphatic about the fact that so many of the brands didn't know what success meant. So how do you define success? What does it look like for Orgain?
[00:25:29] Shark Tank: success for us is defined in a variety of different ways, but I think it's the little wins. You know, there isn't something where you have to hit this revenue target to have success. For us, for example, success is making sure that we are the innovation leader. What are we doing to always make sure that we are creating products that are disruptive? So for me, launching a product that I know is unique and is going to be disruptive in the space, I think that's a success. Of course, gaining distribution and continuing to grow the company is another form of success, but you take all the little successes and they add up, right? And for me, it's just making sure that every part of Orgain has these little successes that eventually roll up into being a large success. At the end of the day, it's a gut feeling on how you think the company is performing, not only on innovation, but on growth and building out the team. You step back and you ask yourself, how does this feel? And do you feel like you're not doing enough? You always feel like you're not doing enough. But if you feel like you're in a good place where the company is on a good trajectory and has the right momentum and the team has the right culture and attitude, that to me is success.
[00:26:39] Tadah Foods: You mentioned innovation is really important and you want to be the most innovative brand in the drinkable protein space. There are so many trends that come and go. You know, I've been part of the beverage industry for almost nine years and I've seen the bright, it's run the gamut for sure. Today, you know, you hear a lot about CBD, probiotics. I mean, just there's a multitude of ways you can go. How do you think about evaluating these trends? Are you, are you yourself sort of knee deep in the innovation strategy or is it sort of left to the folks who have the trends, have the data trends, have the numbers? I'm beyond knee deep in innovation. We have a... Your neck deep.
[00:27:18] Shark Tank: Yeah, neck deep in it, because our innovation team is a team of one today. So it's myself, and then we have a commercialization team. But innovation for me is a passion of mine. It's something that I love. For me, it's innovating on a constant basis. And there are a lot of trends that come and go, whether it's CBD or probiotics or, you know, it's health today. But I think for us, we focus on what works. For us, it's protein. And what can we do to build around protein? Now, we're not launching a CBD product immediately, but we're constantly working with ingredients like CBD and others just to make sure that we have a line ready when it makes sense. Our R&D kitchen in the office, every day we're trying something, even things that don't make sense, that are outside of our realm. We try them because we learn a tremendous amount. And we take those learnings and eventually create a product that's truly unique.
[00:28:11] Tadah Foods: How do you feel about investing in a product or investing in an ingredient that isn't fully understood like a CBD? You know, in integrative nutrition, I was talking to Dr. Weil about this, you know, as long as it's not harmful, but provides some sort of perceived benefit by the user, that's a win. That's a bonus. It is. But CBD still, I mean, there's just not enough information out there for anyone to really make claims that are legal at this point. How do you strategize around something like that?
[00:28:39] Shark Tank: Yeah, I mean, I think what we like to do is stick to the things that are tried and true. Now, I think that there are certainly benefits to CBD. And like you said, the most important thing for us, and we learned as a doctor, is the do no harm approach, right? So you don't want to put ingredients that are questionable. You want to make sure that you're putting ingredients that are going to be only beneficial. For us, it's looking at products that really have a functional benefit to it as much as possible. Now, of course, we feel like the most functional ingredient today revolves around protein. So whether that's plant-based or dairy, we're always innovating around the core of protein. So today, Organe, when we started, we were just dairy. Today, we do plant-based dairy, collagen, really a wide spectrum of proteins. And the evidence behind protein is indisputable. So we focus on that, and then we see what we could do to layer on top of it with functional ingredients.
[00:29:30] Tadah Foods: You referenced the investment During Orgain that happened, what was that, about a month ago?
[00:29:36] Shark Tank: We just closed a couple of weeks ago, actually.
[00:29:37] Tadah Foods: Exactly. I mean, it was pretty recently. It was a company called Butterfly. Right. They're now a majority owner of the company. They are. Yep. Yep. Why'd you decide to partner with Butterfly? And what was it like giving up control?
[00:29:51] Shark Tank: Yeah, so I've been talking to the Butterfly guys for many years now, about four years. We've been approached by numerous strategics over the years, and it just didn't make sense. What I liked about Butterfly was the fact that they believed in the same values that I did. So making sure that we maintain that authenticity that Orgain, you know, really embodies a focus on innovation and growth and really an idea of global expansion. So Butterfly was aligned on all of these things. And, you know, certainly I think while they have a majority share, they're allowing me to run the company, you know, because we've been able to have some tremendous success. with their support. Not only am I able to run the company, but I have them to support us in every which way, which is for me, the time was right. As we think about kind of our next phase and how do we expand, Butterfly was the absolute best partner.
[00:30:42] Tadah Foods: How do you protect yourself so that you are still an active member in the brand that you created? I mean, sometimes it's the, and we've seen this numerous times where a brand is sold, the vision, the passion, you know, the mission, everything dwindles and gets just
[00:31:01] Shark Tank: That's an important question. And I think that was a question that I brought up numerous times to many outside investors. And I think Butterfly was the one private equity firm that really focused on making sure that that wasn't going to dwindle, to make sure that the authenticity, to make sure that everything that was important to me, the strict guardrails of our nutritional profile would all remain intact. Butterfly and I saw eye to eye on many things. And I think for me, it's important to note that I still maintain a very significant portion of the company. I really, really desire for the company to grow in ways that we haven't been able to grow before. And I'll be leading that charge now with tremendous support.
[00:31:42] Tadah Foods: Was that written into the contract that, you know, the guardrails that you were talking about? Or was it sort of just a handshake agreement?
[00:31:50] Shark Tank: No, it wasn't a handshake agreement. I mean, it was. So it is a handshake agreement. But at the same time, there was terms in the contract to make sure that what was important to me maintained. So, yes, absolutely. You know, Organe is my third child. I mean, it truly is. It's a company that I care very deeply about. And to your point earlier, I've seen strategics acquire companies and it just doesn't work out. You know, you see a company on the ascent and all the wonderful things happening with them. And a lot of that magic sauce goes away. Right. And that was something that was more important for me than the financial aspect of it. So an outright acquisition didn't make as much sense as what we're doing with Butterfly.
[00:32:27] Tadah Foods: And you could be, you know, owning a small island in the Caribbean if you wanted to.
[00:32:32] Shark Tank: Absolutely.
[00:32:32] Tadah Foods: Absolutely. The brand is bigger at this point for you.
[00:32:35] Shark Tank: It is, you know, and at the end of the day, money will only take you so far, even with the recent deal with butterfly. I mean, it was, it was a great outcome, but for me, the one thing that gets me up in the morning is being passionate about what you do. And I don't see myself being any more passionate about anything else other than what I'm doing in this space.
[00:32:56] Tadah Foods: You know, Andrew, this is the first time I've met you. I can't remember if we've had a call for a story I've written for BevNET or not, but just amazing stuff. I really appreciate you taking the time to speak with me. Congratulations on everything you've done with your game. Congratulations on the butterfly deal. I hope we can stay in touch in the future as well.
[00:33:12] Shark Tank: Awesome. Thanks so much for having me.
[00:33:13] Tadah Foods: Right on.
[00:33:14] Shark Tank: Appreciate it. All right.
[00:33:15] Tadah Foods: Thanks. That brings us to the end of episode 197. Thank you so much for listening, and thanks for our guest, Andrew Abraham. You can catch both Taste Radio and Taste Radio Insider on Taste Radio, the Apple Podcasts app, Stitcher, Google Play, SoundCloud, or Spotify. As always, for questions, comments, ideas for future podcasts, please send us an email to ask at Taste Radio. On behalf of the entire Taste Radio team, thank you for listening, and we'll talk to you next time.
