[00:00:10] Ray Latif: Hello, and thanks for tuning into Taste Radio, the number one podcast for the food and beverage industry. I'm Ray Latif, the editor and producer of Taste Radio, and I'm with my co-host for this episode, John Craven, Jacqui Brugliera, and Mike Schneider. In this episode, we discuss whiskey innovation and experimentation in an interview with Whistlepig's Head of Whiskey Development, Liz Rhoades and Ireland Blender, Meghan Ireland. We're in a new studio here at Newton HQ. It's nice and bright. Everything feels very white. Sample studio. Yes, sample studio indeed. Jackie, does it look as good as the lounge?
[00:00:52] John Craven: Yeah, I would say it definitely is brighter. I can see your faces better.
[00:00:56] Ray Latif: Even though I'm wearing my hat.
[00:00:58] John Craven: You're hiding, but I can see you.
[00:01:00] Ray Latif: Speaking of which, is everyone wearing the same thing they wore last week? We just sleep in these clothes.
[00:01:04] John Craven: Interesting. I had a costume change.
[00:01:07] Ray Latif: You do. Jackie's the only one who's actually wearing something different.
[00:01:11] Jacqui Brugliera: I brought another shirt, but I was like, whatever.
[00:01:13] Ray Latif: No one's going to notice. We all have just been wearing the same clothes through the Fourth of July week. And, you know, it's been that kind of week. I hope it was a safe one for everyone. Did you guys have a good time?
[00:01:24] John Craven: We made it back.
[00:01:27] Ray Latif: It's hard to say, it's hard to say. You know, I was thinking about the 4th, and I didn't have a single Hot Dogs. And that's actually New York me. I am typically, you know, once or twice a year I'll have a Hot Dogs, and that is the day I'll typically do it. That's a great day for a Hot Dogs.
[00:01:40] Jacqui Brugliera: That's really strange, Ray. Why? Why have a Hot Dogs on 4th of July? Why not? No, but I mean, like, why would you go out of your way? Because he's competing against Kobayashi and Joey Chestnut. To eat our dog. Because it's a traditional American treat to have on the fourth, you know? Especially when you can eat a hundred like Ray.
[00:02:02] John Craven: Why didn't you do it?
[00:02:03] Ray Latif: Why didn't I have a Hot Dogs? Well, I guess I'd maybe, I thought about that, it wasn't a story, it was some sort of research that was out there that said, every time you eat a Hot Dogs, you like lose 25 minutes of your life. Did you see that? It came out like last year. Oh my gosh, all the, I mean, Joey Chestnut would be gone. Well, yeah, no, I think he pukes out everything that he eats. You think that just goes right out? I think so. Does he keep it all in?
[00:02:27] Jacqui Brugliera: I don't think we need to know that info. That's a little far even for us to go.
[00:02:33] Ray Latif: We need a fact checker.
[00:02:34] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah, we do.
[00:02:35] Ray Latif: Well, maybe I can do this while everyone else is chatting, but I want to find out exactly whether or not Joey Chestnut and Kobayashi keep it all in or... Kobayashi hasn't competed in a while. He got banned.
[00:02:47] John Craven: There must be a Hot Dogs out there that you don't lose minutes of your life and you could eat, you know, in good conscience. No?
[00:02:54] Jacqui Brugliera: I didn't see any biffy Hot Dogs at Fancy Foods, did you? Better for you Hot Dogs?
[00:02:59] Ray Latif: Usually there are some, but I didn't see any. Did you see any? Didn't see any Hot Dogs. Anyway, I did see some really cool stuff. And I know we talked quite a bit about the Fancy Food Show last week, but we didn't talk about a number of products and brands that we did see. And I am going to pull out my bag of fancy Food Show samples. Oh, Uncle Ray. Oh, did you call me Uncle Ray? I did. I like that. I like that a lot. I came across a brand that I believe is only a couple of years old and it's called Root. Root Foods.
[00:03:30] John Craven: Yum.
[00:03:30] Ray Latif: And they are a maker.
[00:03:32] John Craven: Is that a pickle?
[00:03:33] Ray Latif: No, they are a maker of vegetable chips and they have six varieties. I'm going to go to their sales sheet here. Actually, it looks like they have, excuse me, four varieties. Oh, zucchini. Yes. How about that? They have a tomato variety, a zucchini variety, one that's made with onions and another that's made with six garden fresh vegetables, according to the sales sheet.
[00:03:55] Jacqui Brugliera: Can we open it?
[00:03:56] Ray Latif: You may open it, yes.
[00:03:57] Jacqui Brugliera: This is gonna be like the last episode where Mike is eating whatever that meat leather was. Oh my god, I ate the whole bag.
[00:04:05] Ray Latif: Now, you're eating- That stuff is so good. Zucchini. You're eating the snack size. Looks like a pickle. They have two sizes. They have a 2 to 2.7 ounce bag that retails for seven bucks. And a snack size, that's the one you have, John, that's three bucks a bag.
[00:04:19] Jacqui Brugliera: So it looks like it's summer squash and zucchini in there, but they called them both zucchini because it's got the, I mean, one of them is just yellow zucchini, right? This is like Spaceman ice cream of five vegetables. How's that? They're like, here, try some.
[00:04:33] John Craven: They're so light and airy. Yeah. I like the onion. The onion one is my favorite. It's like, I've had the onion one. It's like a better for you Funyun zero guilt. I believe they were at pop-up grocer in New York. That's where I tried them.
[00:04:47] Ray Latif: Gotcha. Gotcha. All right. I'm going for the summer squash. Well, I was just enamored by the packaging. They have these pastel colored bags and the name of each variety is in very big stacked letters on the front of the pack. We'll include an image of these on the show notes, but I was speaking with one of the representatives at the booth and he pointed to one of the co-founders who is a experienced designer and he looked like someone who just walked out of a showroom in like LA or New York or Paris. He just looked like the guy who knew exactly what, he was exactly stylish. And I was like, okay, this all makes sense now.
[00:05:29] Jacqui Brugliera: These are great, but I want the, I want like the chip to be a full-size zucchini because they're kind of small. Where did you sit on these?
[00:05:37] Ray Latif: You wanted a full-size zucchini, didn't you, Micah?
[00:05:39] Jacqui Brugliera: At least, like, a quarter-size zucchini, okay?
[00:05:43] John Craven: Yeah, after that meat chip, you know?
[00:05:45] Jacqui Brugliera: Oh, the meat chip was so good. My Quonset product is just a quarter of a zucchini freeze-dried inside, like, a pouch. These are good. They're a little bit sweet, and I'm not sure if it's because zucchini's sweet and I didn't notice it, or maybe it's the tapioca starch. I want to try the onion now, Jackie. You made me want to try that.
[00:06:02] John Craven: Yeah, I know. It's really good. And it's just very simple eating, which I love. It's just very straightforward.
[00:06:08] Ray Latif: Now, the meat snack that Mike was referring to is the one we mentioned last week called Yay's. Y-A-Y apostrophe S, if you recall. It's the meat jerky that acts as a chip. Very crispy. Now, we also talked about a brand last week called Datefix, which is a natural energy snack that's made with dates and pouches meant to be put in your pocket when you're on a run or working out. I found another single ingredient or hero ingredient snack similar to Datefix, and that is packaged in a pouch and made for on the go. This one is called You Again, and it's made with super honey. Well, it's described as super honey, but it's made with raw honey ginger papaya and umla berry I don't know what umla berry is umla berry umla berry. Yes, that sounds like a snozzberry It doesn't really want to make that up you lick it off of a wall But like the packaging it's described on the back as Eastern superfoods blended with raw American honey for clean slow release energy 60 calories per 0.74 ounce power seriously, right?
[00:07:12] Jacqui Brugliera: Would you lick it off a wall?
[00:07:13] Ray Latif: That was a dumb question it's yeah, I would never lift anything off the wall never thought I'd hear that on the podcast But well we we had stroke the furry wall a couple weeks ago, so might as well go there.
[00:07:31] Jacqui Brugliera: You know go Willy Wonka.
[00:07:32] SPEAKER_??: Oh
[00:07:32] Ray Latif: Stroke the furry wall a reference to get him to the Greek get him to the Greek We had a great reference to I love you man earlier when John was doing a Jamaican accent, but it sounded like a leprechaun I was like are you doing a leprechaun music?
[00:07:47] Jacqui Brugliera: No, it's Jamaican man Okay, I didn't say it with a Jamaican accent. I was also just trying to troll Mike yeah, so it was Just just everyone know I was trolled and it was delightful and Violet what I got trolled and everyone was delighted Can I But Not my bag of rind remix?
[00:08:10] Ray Latif: I was now this no this kind of surprised me Mike. Did you see did you see now? I don't have it. I only have their trial says granola, but Michelle's granola. Did you see they launched a granola butter? Yeah, they did I posted on Graham Ironic because earlier in the day I'd seen Ali Bonar from From Oathouse.
[00:08:28] Jacqui Brugliera: From Oathouse. Did you see Slam Daddy too?
[00:08:31] Ray Latif: I did see Slam Daddy as well. Eric, don't call me kitty cats. Yes. They have some big news coming. I don't think I can reveal it yet, but they have some big news coming. But anyway, I was really surprised to see this granola bar because I don't think I'd seen anything or not too many things marketed as granola butter. There's a few. But when a brand like Michelle's Granola, which is... It looks like a small brand. It looks like a kind of heritage regional brand, but it's actually quite big. Gets into the space.
[00:08:57] Jacqui Brugliera: I'd be wondering, you know... Wait, I missed Allie and Eric? That's so sad. That's what that... after all that...
[00:09:05] Ray Latif: The show is ruined.
[00:09:06] Jacqui Brugliera: Can I say that? Yes. This is not the butter. This is just the... I was going to say, I thought they had launched a granola butter already. I'd love to try that. It said new on the pack. Well, I mean, you know, sometimes people put new on things just to, you know, yeah.
[00:09:22] Ray Latif: Are you saying that they deceived me?
[00:09:24] Jacqui Brugliera: No, I said sometimes some people, I did not specifically mention that.
[00:09:28] John Craven: No accusations.
[00:09:30] Ray Latif: No. I did hear at the show about a ridiculous collab that's coming out between a beverage brand that we all know, relatively early stage brand, but still one that's kind of high profile within our space and another quite high profile food brand that are collaborating on a new beverage that is a limited edition product.
[00:10:00] Jacqui Brugliera: Within a very hot category Wow, right down Wow Yeah, what a cliffhanger stay wait to set it up a tune September Sooner than that than September.
[00:10:22] John Craven: I know we can't we need to know like next week I
[00:10:25] Jacqui Brugliera: All right, well, back to Ryan. Really swell people. Whole team, very swell. Definitely love them. This one is their piña colada snack mix. It's a mix of coconut crisps, sweet and salty cashews, and pineapple. I'm not going to open this bag, because... You know what will happen. Well, yeah, I mean, I'll just start eating it nonstop. Kind of like that popcorn I was eating last time, but... Yeah, this is, this is super good. I mean, it just feels like, you know, a nice kind of evolution of the Rhine lineup to have a kind of crushable product that feels like, you know, I mean, this is like, I don't know, snack mix you could put out when you have friends over sort of thing or, or, you know, like just hoard it all to myself, but, uh, I have a couple of flavors. I don't know. It's really good. So.
[00:11:16] Ray Latif: Yeah, it was interesting to hear Matt talk about that as being sort of the future of the brand in so many ways in that it's a snacking platform now more than it is a dried fruit company. 15 ounces though, that's the only thing I was a little surprised. But is that for Costco? Did he say that? I think so. Yes, I think so as well.
[00:11:34] John Craven: Doesn't the LinkedIn post say it's like exclusive to Costco first?
[00:11:37] Jacqui Brugliera: I think so. Yeah, it's definitely a Costco product. Matt also rode his scooter over to the venue and delivered that to us when we were at BevNET Live. Cause you know, he's cool that way.
[00:11:49] Ray Latif: And you're VIPs.
[00:11:50] Jacqui Brugliera: CFD, chill, blank and delivery.
[00:11:54] Ray Latif: Have you ever had a snack or at least a craving for a snack that was part cookie, part cracker?
[00:12:02] Jacqui Brugliera: No.
[00:12:03] Ray Latif: You're supposed to say yes, Mike. You're supposed to say, yes, Ray. I wish that was a brand that I could reach for. I don't mess it up. Sorry. No, we're not changing that.
[00:12:15] John Craven: I said no too.
[00:12:16] Jacqui Brugliera: You're asking a guy who drinks cruffin lattes. So I don't know if he's kind of- He eats cruffin lattes.
[00:12:24] John Craven: Yeah, that was fun.
[00:12:26] Ray Latif: Well, I came across a brand also at Fancy Food Show. I believe they were part of the Hatchery Chicago Incubator booth, and it's called Carolyn's Crisps. And crisps is spelled with a K, Carolyn with a C. And they market a brand of what they describe as cookie crackers. And it's a little sweet, but it's a little crunchy. It's kind of versatile, made to be versatile. It comes in pouches. It's just like a sweet and savory kind of It's a crisp. Well, it's a sweet and savory experience that you don't necessarily get with just a cookie or just a cracker. So I thought that was pretty great. Good stuff.
[00:13:04] John Craven: How do they suggest you eat it? Like, do you eat it with cheese? Do you just snack on it?
[00:13:08] Ray Latif: Well, I'm sure people eat it with cheese because people eat everything with Cheese Cubes. Well, you mentioned cheese, so...
[00:13:15] Jacqui Brugliera: I didn't intend to, but...
[00:13:17] Ray Latif: But you did. I did, yes. You did.
[00:13:19] Jacqui Brugliera: I don't know. Everyone mentioned cheese. So, one of the products I picked up at the fancy Food Show, this Armored Fresh Almond Milk Cheese Cubes. Actually, I wouldn't say I really picked it up as much as they kind of forced it upon me You will take this they make like you know almond milk cheeses They were showing off there like they have like North American cheese Which shouldn't be too hard to make out of almond milk right cuz that's what you have the point while they were making grilled cheese It's like snacking cheese made from all yeah, but it's like a deck of cards box. It does look small right try those No, I dare American cheese is pretty good. I think it's cheddar the yellow Cheese Cubes. It's North American cheese Yeah, all right. Well there they also have a cheddar then and I did have the grilled cheese and pretty much everything tastes good as a grilled cheese that tastes just like Velveeta Hmm. I mean and I there's definitely a use case for that.
[00:14:22] SPEAKER_??: I
[00:14:23] Ray Latif: How is it that we haven't yet brought up the fact that you've been like annihilating those two bags of popcorn in front of you the entire time we've been recording?
[00:14:31] Jacqui Brugliera: I was just, I was just reenacting.
[00:14:33] Ray Latif: Like we were talking about it, like, I don't know, eight or nine different brands. We were talking about July 4th and you're just like pounding away at this, at this bag of popcorn. What is that?
[00:14:42] Jacqui Brugliera: You can't stop once you start. Jackie will, will attest. Jackie, we have the same snack for a change. Uh-huh, I know, it is great. It's called Confusion Snacks. Confusion Snacks. Confusion Snacks, Adit Patel is the founder, and it's basically, I'm just gonna read the back here. Hi, I'm Adit. Growing up, I lived at the intersection of two worlds, learning how to carry forward my Indian roots while adapting North American culture. So basically what he's done is he's taking, you North American popcorn and adding Indian flavors, and it is awesome.
[00:15:18] Ray Latif: And that variety you have in your hand is what?
[00:15:20] Jacqui Brugliera: This one's black truffle masala, which tastes like truffle masala. You don't want to surprise somebody in a bad way. If you surprise them, you want it to be like a really good surprise. And if you give them something, you want it to taste like what it says it is. And that seems pretty simple, right? It should be. But it isn't for some brands. But for Confusion Snacks, there's zero confusion. Except in the brand. Shouldn't there be confusion? Because black truffle masala popcorn tastes like black truffle masala popcorn and mint shot popcorn tastes like that. I mean, it tastes exactly like what you would think it tastes like. And the other one, the one that I already annihilated before it made it to the show was chili chopped popcorn. Oh, and Jackie has all of them.
[00:16:06] Ray Latif: Okay, so I'm...
[00:16:07] John Craven: I'm Banna White.
[00:16:10] Ray Latif: I think, if I recall, I saw these at Pop-Up Grocery. Is that where you got all these? They sent them to us.
[00:16:15] John Craven: Oh, yeah. So I picked up the black truffle masala when it pop up grocer and they saw that I was eating it and they're huge fans of Taste Radio. That's how it goes. So yeah, they were asking for feedback and wanted to have a sample it on the podcast and get Like all of our thoughts, but yeah, I thought it was really cool. I ate this super fast when I had this in the hotel room in New York City. I think it's interesting because it's a lot of really strong flavor profiles that you would kind of worry about, but it's nice. It's like the spicy one, the chili is spicy and the truffle really comes through and the mint you can taste too. It's not too much. It's like a hint of mint. So really flavorful and tasty popcorn.
[00:16:57] Jacqui Brugliera: Well, I am going to on behalf of our company apologize to the Confusion Snacks company who wanted all of our feedback because Mike is just gone full cookie monster over here. and has left no kernels for Ray or I. Ray just looks bewildered. I was messaging with Adit earlier and he was asking me for feedback and I told him I would eat more mint because I wasn't sure about the mint and I was like, I don't think that's my favorite flavor. It reminds me of, um, like I sometimes pass on chutney when I eat samosas because I just don't think you need it. And this has a really interesting mint chutney flavor. And now that I'm like, oh, I got to start eating the chutney because I can't stop eating the mint.
[00:17:44] Ray Latif: So I like it.
[00:17:45] Jacqui Brugliera: It's really good. At first, I didn't think I liked it. And now I'm like, oh, it might be my favorite.
[00:17:49] Ray Latif: It seems like the least obvious variety for popcorn. Popcorn yeah, yeah, but but yeah, it looks pretty good, and I like Jackie's description of it a hint a mint a hint of things Yes, I'm surprised no one's used that yet. No one's no one's got that trademarked I'm sure someone's you know hint of any point maybe hint with a water flavor perhaps perhaps Anywho yeah, I mean it looks really good and and up the popcorn kernels themselves look really nicely popped
[00:18:17] Jacqui Brugliera: The other piece of it is that the product is the hero, not the brand. So you're looking at this and it is screaming black truffle masala popcorn, mint shot popcorn. So you, if I'm saying that right, so you know what it is. There's no question.
[00:18:35] Ray Latif: Yeah.
[00:18:35] Jacqui Brugliera: And the call-outs are really good, vegan friendly, gluten-free, made with avocado. Like this is a super strong product. Cool. I'm just going to sit over here with my Cheese Cubes. Adi, can you please send more?
[00:18:45] Ray Latif: Jackie, did you get anything else from pop up grocer that you have still still left?
[00:18:49] John Craven: I'd be surprised actually, I have the carnage, you know, just the leftovers. But nothing left from pop up grocer, but I do have a new product. from Dave's Killer Bread, which is their line of snack bars. So they, you know, they evolved from just a bread company and they're going into snacking and they now have a line of snack bars. This is their cocoa brownie blitz. And they also have like an oat bar to head for breakfast. And yeah, it's just a nice evolution of the brand and allows them to go into a new category. Still, you know, utilizing oats and a lot of the ingredients that they use in their bread.
[00:19:31] Jacqui Brugliera: Hey Jackie, you know what I had for breakfast?
[00:19:34] Ray Latif: If you didn't see that coming folks you should have I didn't see that yeah, I mean I was just waiting for him to say something weird So we barely talked about beverages yet, and I know we've had we have a couple good ones John Craven Now this is a brand we've talked about on the podcast a couple times Proxies and proxies just launched a new line of single-serve variety delicious. Yes non-alcoholic wine or Wine analog products, wine adjacent products, if you want to call it that. This is sparkling. Yeah. Beautiful branding.
[00:20:10] Jacqui Brugliera: I really like the branding of this. I think, um, what was the original branding? Was it just under Acid League?
[00:20:16] Ray Latif: It was under Acid League, but it was, um, not as prominent. The word proxies wasn't as prominent in the bottle.
[00:20:22] Jacqui Brugliera: This, uh, liquid feels like it's come a long way too, and I definitely like the branding. I mean, it feels like it's, It's own thing that is not selling me on what it doesn't have in alcohol. And it's, I don't know, it's pretty solid. I mean, it's, what does it say? 40 calories per can. Crisp and crushable. Great way.
[00:20:44] Ray Latif: to describe itself. Crisp and crushable is a really good way to describe something. It sounds like something that everyone would want to drink, regardless of whether or not it's alcoholic or non-alcoholic. But I think you bring up a good point in that it's not trying to sell you on what it isn't. It's trying to sell you on what it is, which is that there's a huge difference there.
[00:21:00] Jacqui Brugliera: There is, and I mean, I think that's a trend that we're seeing more and more in this kind of not out space. Thinking back to the old days where you had things like Sutter Home Free, which I don't know, you kind of lost me at Sutter Home anyway, but you know, I mean, I think a lot of, and there was a brand called Free, right?
[00:21:19] Ray Latif: I don't recall.
[00:21:20] Jacqui Brugliera: Another one of those like mainstream sort of box wine brands if I remember correctly. I don't know. How's the Franzia guy? Still. No. It's just he keeps a box of Franzia in his office.
[00:21:31] Ray Latif: Yeah.
[00:21:32] Jacqui Brugliera: Hose hooked up to his mouth. I get what you're saying, Ray, but I'm also kind of a person who doesn't drink alcohol at all right now. Really? Yeah, I guess. I mean, I just, I haven't really brought it back.
[00:21:43] Ray Latif: What do you mean brought it back?
[00:21:45] Jacqui Brugliera: Like that whole sober curious thing, I just haven't had a lot of alcohol.
[00:21:51] Ray Latif: Well, you are sipping on something right now, and it's a brand called Ringa. And I'm a fan because we actually featured Ringa on a previous episode or a prior episode of Elevator Talk. The founder is Stephanie McGregor, and she has quite a bit of experience. In this industry, she once worked for Smosh, Mallow, Barkthins. She worked for Crave, for Popchips. She even worked for Coca-Cola back in the day. So she has quite a bit of experience, but this is her first foray into entrepreneurship.
[00:22:22] Jacqui Brugliera: Well, I like this. It tastes like it's a fermented tea, but it's Moringa with apple cider vinegar infusion.
[00:22:28] Ray Latif: Hence the name. Moringa.
[00:22:29] Jacqui Brugliera: Moringa. Lemon plus ginger. It's got good call outs. It's really tasty. 15 calories. Yeah, it hits, it checks a lot of boxes for me, so.
[00:22:38] Ray Latif: There you go.
[00:22:39] Jacqui Brugliera: And it's a sipper.
[00:22:41] Ray Latif: The thing with Ringo's that's interesting is it feels like a superfood beverage. But you described it as a sipper. Do you mean it's something that you don't crush in one kind of sitting or?
[00:22:52] Jacqui Brugliera: I mean, it takes me a while to take it down because of the ACV. So I don't want to and there's lemon and ginger. So it it almost has like It almost has like a cocktail occasion in terms of just the complexity of the beverage itself. I like it. I mean, it's, you know, and there's tea notes, so there's just a lot going on in it. So if you're a person who likes that sort of thing, and that is what I would look for in a cocktail, I mean, this could, this could sit in that occasion if I wanted it to.
[00:23:19] Ray Latif: There you go. Now we can't end our banter here without talking about this. This product that you have in front of you. I mean, it's just Spudzie's new. Giant boxes. Giant boxes. Sweet potato scoops. These are big boxes actually for a snack. It's like a cereal box. It does it's a little bit smaller than a cereal box, but spudsy just launched these sweet potato crisps It says that the net weight is 3.2 ounces, but again. Yeah, it feels bigger than that I have not tried these yet. Have you either you guys tried this yes, we try them at West I think right all right everyone tried I Spent half more than half of my time at Expo West in the press room recording interviews womp womp womp womp But anyway, thanks for doing that, Ray.
[00:24:05] Jacqui Brugliera: Thanks for making the show run.
[00:24:07] Ray Latif: I try. I try. But these, yeah, these look really nice. They're insanely good.
[00:24:12] Jacqui Brugliera: I mean, why wouldn't you put spudsy in a scoop format? It's awesome.
[00:24:16] John Craven: Yeah, they're really light and tasty.
[00:24:18] Ray Latif: Yeah, Spudsy for those who don't recall is a brand of sweet potato snacks. They launched with a line of puffs and they have since gone on to introduce a whole snacking platform really based around sweet potatoes.
[00:24:31] Jacqui Brugliera: So I mean, I remember when Spudsy was pitching at Nosh Live and just talking about her little Spud army that was going to take over the grocery store and she's doing it.
[00:24:43] John Craven: Yeah, I think it's cool. You go to a party and you're eating puffs and you're probably eating a chip with dip. And I usually opt for the scoops, the tortilla scoops. So I think it's a smart move.
[00:24:56] Ray Latif: These are so light and airy too. You know, sometimes the tortilla ones are really crunchy and kind of heavy. These are really good. Yep.
[00:25:02] John Craven: A great vehicle for some nice dip.
[00:25:05] Ray Latif: Or cheese.
[00:25:06] John Craven: Or cheese. Always. I'll be above cheese. Put one of the cubes on there.
[00:25:12] Jacqui Brugliera: Quick cheese tangent here that I have to share. So I guess what, a week or so ago I was touring some local Boston area colleges with one of our kids and we did Northeastern, BC, BU, and Tufts in the span of like 48 hours. And, you know, it's kind of interesting to hear these sort of, like, obvious similarities. Like, they like the Beanpot and, you know, Red Sox being close and this and that.
[00:25:43] Ray Latif: The Beanpot, by the way, is a hockey tournament between four colleges in the Boston area.
[00:25:47] Jacqui Brugliera: Yes, right. So, you know, and they have a student there that talks about their love of Newberry Street. And anyone who lives in Boston is kind of like, what are you talking about? Anyway. You never go there. So at BU, they basically have you know this whole like they're talking about all the clubs and they're like they even have a cheese lovers club where basically students just get together and they just love their love for cheese i think is what they said in each year and now kind of like all right this is freaking weird but lo and behold another school we'll call it northeastern also brags about their cheese lovers club And I'm like what like if this place is fully gone like mad or what like what's going on? Like I don't I'm hoping I'll be you alum.
[00:26:33] Ray Latif: You could shed some light on that situation Well, I think Jackie just spoke to it in that there's a lot of people who love cheese I will say that I am NOT one of them and as to my Alma mater I can't really speak very highly
[00:26:48] Jacqui Brugliera: I forgot you're a omit the cheese is your version of like eating healthy Yes, exactly.
[00:26:59] Ray Latif: Why why why eat cheese because it's all fat and you know mold Wow for any of you don't use that clip anywhere I
[00:27:10] Jacqui Brugliera: Don't pitch your cheese brand array I don't know why you would any of your college-age kids who were hoping to that there would be a bean lovers club It's not happening. It's cheese All right, or they can start it the whole bean town thing is just so weird what you're saying John No, we should be like clam chowder town or all we have is the bean pot being thing we have Well what you're saying John is that your daughter is going to BC or Tufts I? I don't know about that. BU was like more at the top of our list for whatever reason. I don't know. I mean, whatever. They're all great schools.
[00:27:46] Ray Latif: You know, whatever. I hope you're looking forward to $300,000.
[00:27:52] Jacqui Brugliera: But they did graduate one of the finest broadcasters in our industry. Who's that? You. You.
[00:28:01] Ray Latif: Appreciate that, Mike. Appreciate that.
[00:28:02] Jacqui Brugliera: And Howard Stern.
[00:28:04] Ray Latif: He's not in our industry, though. No, he's not. Alright, before we get to our featured interview, let's thank our presenting sponsor for this episode. That's Tetra Pak, the pioneering packaging solutions company that provides safe, innovative, and environmentally sound products that each day meet the needs of hundreds of millions of people around the world. Learn more at tetrapak.com. Now, as I mentioned at the top of the show, Liz Rhoades and Ireland Ireland are the Head of Whiskey Development and Chief Blender, respectively, for renowned whiskey brand, Whistlepig. Founded in 2007, Whistlepig is headquartered on a 500-acre farm distillery in Shoreham, Vermont, where the vertically integrated company grows rye, the base for many of its highly regarded spirits. Although Whistlepig is best known for its age-dry whiskeys, the company recently set its sights on the emerging segment of North American single malt whiskey with the launch of an ultra-premium 21-year-old expression named The Beholden. The sourced whiskey is aged North American oak ex-bourbon barrels and bottles at 92 proof. A luxurious and limited offering, The Beholden comes in an exquisitely designed bottle and box reflective of its $800 price. In the following interview, I spoke with Liz and Megan about Whistlepig's foray into single malt whiskey and how it fits into the company's ethos, whereby a new generation of whiskey makers strives to break traditional boundaries through experimentation and novel production methods. Hey folks, it's Ray with Taste Radio. Right now I'm honored to be sitting down with Liz Rhoades and Ireland Ireland of Whistlepig. Liz, Megan, great to see you. Good to be here. That's Liz.
[00:29:53] Mike Schneider: Hi, thanks for having us.
[00:29:55] Ray Latif: And that's Megan. You are located in two different places, even though Whistlepig is based in Vermont. Liz, you're out in Albany, New York. What are you doing out there?
[00:30:04] Summer Fancy: It's where I live. It's where my bed is.
[00:30:09] Ray Latif: That's a good reason to be in Albany, New York.
[00:30:11] Summer Fancy: Yes, I'm not there that often, but when I can my pillows Colin.
[00:30:17] Ray Latif: Nice Megan, you're in your distillery. I hope you don't sleep there, do you?
[00:30:22] Mike Schneider: Sometimes. No, yeah, I'm I'm up at the farm in Vermont. I come here every day. I live about 15 minutes away, but yeah, I'm sitting in the stillery every day.
[00:30:34] Ray Latif: Amazing, amazing. Yeah, let's talk about your respective backgrounds and how you both got into distilling. Megan, you're the chief blender at Whistlepig. How'd you cut your teeth in the business?
[00:30:46] Mike Schneider: I went to school for chemical engineering. And while I was at school, my dad read an article in Whiskey Advocate about a woman who was a master distiller and had a chemical engineering degree. Basically decided that sounded like a lot more fun than going into like pharmaceuticals or plastics. So out of college, tried to get my foot in the industry any way I could and ended up in hard cider, which is where I kind of fell in love with the blending side of things. Then came out here to Whistlepig. So I've been here for about five years now. I'm gonna work my way up to this position.
[00:31:20] Ray Latif: Outstanding. Yeah, I've heard that chemical engineering is where a lot of blenders are learning their craft in so many ways because, you know, distilling and blending is such a chemically intensive process.
[00:31:35] Mike Schneider: Yeah, I mean, all of the heating and cooling calculations, the boiling points, all of that stuff, right? It all comes back. There's a lot of art in distilling for sure, but there's also a lot of science.
[00:31:48] Ray Latif: And Liz, you're the head of whiskey development for Whistlepig. How long have you been with the company?
[00:31:54] Summer Fancy: Yes, head of whiskey development. I've been with the company since January of last year. I did start consulting with the company previously since November of 2020. It's been really great. So my, I guess, career, if we circle back, I've been making booze and helping people make booze for 15 plus years now, which has been super exciting. And I've worked across categories, so beer, whiskey, rum, non-alcohol. I was really excited about working with Whistlepig, and so I decided to hunker down and started in full in January of last year with Whistlepig as head of whisky development. And it's been such a treat working with the team. And if I think about the lay of the land, it's the people product process, right? The three Ps. And I think More often than not, it's the people, but the products that we make, it's been such a delight. So that's sort of my, I guess, career in a nutshell. I've worked across multiple brands across the globe, I think five continents. and counting. Wow. And so I've worked on Bullets and Crown Royal with Whiskey R&D specifically. So it's exciting to work with such a dynamic brand such as Whistlepig and work with a young kind of ruthless crew that we are. So we can throw the rulebook out the window and kind of say, OK, that's cool. So we did that. But Not going forward, we can just make our own sort of rulebook.
[00:33:44] Ray Latif: Yeah, and I definitely want to talk about Whistlepig's M.O. as, you know, pushing the boundaries or as a distillery that pushes the boundaries of what whiskey can be. I do want to go back to you, Megan, for a sec, because some of our listeners might be wondering, well, what's the difference between a blender and a distiller? Can you clarify?
[00:34:03] Mike Schneider: So yeah, I always kind of go back to like distillers are in charge of it when it's still clear. So before it's a barrel, before it hits the barrel, blenders kind of take over after it's aged, right? So I'm looking at the flavors that the wood is added and then picking and choosing what barrels are going to go into our finished product along with all sorts of different finishing barrels to the whiskey as well.
[00:34:25] Summer Fancy: I'm just going to piggyback on no pun intended. Yes, fun intended. So upstream versus downstream, so as Megan eloquently put it in perspective, so pre-barrel versus post-barrel. So everything that happens pre-barrel, there's a purposeful intent to what it's going to come out at the end of it. So that's distiller versus maturation versus blending as well.
[00:34:57] Ray Latif: And I know this is pretty basic stuff for you guys, but for folks who are novices, when it comes to whiskey, so much of the character of whiskey does come from the barrels, which give it that flavor, which give it that color, which give it so much of that je ne sais quoi when it comes to different types of whiskeys.
[00:35:15] Mike Schneider: And that's one of the things like I love doing here, right? And makes Whistlepig great and fun for me, is the finishing we're allowed to do and play around with here. It's a huge part of our brand. For instance, like our Boss Hog products, right? Always have these specialty and cool finishes that elevate the rye in some new and different way. And so it's really always amazing to me the impact that a barrel could have. We've had finishes as short as three days and finishes up to years long. So it's all, all big impacts and big d those barrels.
[00:35:48] Ray Latif: And Megan, which is whistlepig specia
[00:35:57] Summer Fancy: So I'm a bit of a nerd behind the scenes. I'm known as what Chief Whiskey Science Officer or whatever. So I love agronomics. I love talking about varietals. So we'll just fill it down though for today. No pun intended, right? Or maybe. One of the things that I'm super excited about, so we are on a 500 acre land and about 300 acres of that is dedicated to our crops. So most of that is dedicated to our rye. And we really fell in love with a particular strain, a particular varietal of rye called denko. And the reason why we came about to really plant and harvest this denko is because it grows really well, but we love it for its flavor characteristics. So what do you love about rye? I'll turn it on to you.
[00:36:58] Mike Schneider: Yeah, I mean, for me, right, it's rye spice, right? That's what makes rye, rye, compared to other whiskeys. Everybody in the US, bourbon's obviously the big guy, right? Which has a base of corn instead of rye. Bourbon drinks a lot sweeter than kind of that classic rye spice is what we call it. It's kind of a white pepper finish that comes along with a rye that is just delicious.
[00:37:20] Summer Fancy: Yeah, so exactly what Megan said. We chose this particular varietal of rye because it did deliver that, and we did some testing to understand if it was going to be able to deliver that rye spice that we love for piggyback rye.
[00:37:38] Ray Latif: Liz, I thought you were asking me what I love about rye, and I was going to say Manhattans.
[00:37:42] Summer Fancy: Yeah, exactly.
[00:37:46] Mike Schneider: That's one of the best parts of it, right? For me, at least, is a lot of those classic cocktails were made originally with rye, right? U.S.'s history in whiskey is rooted in rye.
[00:37:56] Summer Fancy: Yeah. And so we really took that into consideration and we chose a varietal that we really loved and did the testing. And this particular varietal is what we grow because it's awesome.
[00:38:11] Ray Latif: Yeah, I would say so. Megan, as you mentioned, you know, there's a lot of expressions that you've created with Whistlepigs, Rye, a lot of limited edition products as well. But your latest product is perhaps your most remarkable to date. And I'm just going to read here from a fact sheet. Whistlepick whiskey stands for breaking boundaries first and foremost through big age statements while offering the oldest and greatest collection of ride whiskey in the world. They've now set their sights on single malts to bring something brand new to the whiskey world. Single malts, a pretty amazing expression of whiskey, one typically associated with scotch. However, there is a new designation for single malt in the United States. That designation was announced last year. Can you talk to our audience about what single malt represents within the whiskey category?
[00:39:10] Summer Fancy: So North American or North American single malt category, as you mentioned, of course, there's a new designation, and it's been years in the making. So I actually sit on the advisory and technical and board for North American Malting Barley Association Committee. And I sat on that in previous companies. However, that's led up to this. It's something super exciting, I think for us here because I think in other countries, they kind of just piggyback again, I'm pun intended, no, no, just kidding, on what the UK legislation is. But I think with what we did here in the US is that we really in North American, at large, said, well, We're North American, we're not UK, so we're different. And the reason why it's different is we've got different climates, for example. We've got different barley variables. And some barley variables have transplanted over, but don't grow as well, right? Because of agronomics or climate, etc. However, there were some amazing varietals that came over and one of the first varietals that came over settled down into Nova Scotia. And we were so fortunate. So there's so much landscape happening on the single malt, American single malt and North American single malt landscape that we're so excited about exploring. But in the meantime, we're super excited about tapping into the very first single malt distillery of North American that came over from Scotland. And that is the genesis of Bolden.
[00:41:09] Ray Latif: Does it still exist, that still you're referring to?
[00:41:12] Summer Fancy: It does still exist. So of course, and I can't disclose the distillery, obviously, but it is a source liquid. But we did do, as Megan alluded to, we did some super interesting things on the back end, in terms of blending, in terms of filtration. And so we kind of made a whistlepig twist to it. But we are super excited to kind of partner with the very first North American single malt distillery. And again, we're invested in the kind of landscape of what's next. of course, with the single malt and partnering with companies, you know, organizations like AMBA, and even partnering with some of the other single malt distilleries in the U.S. and saying, hey, do we think this is good? Do we not think it's good? And so we're really excited about the new landscape of what American single malt will be. And 100%, we will be a part of it.
[00:42:22] Ray Latif: Well, with this launch of and the product you're talking about is Whistlepig's 21 single malt whiskey, The Beholden. Why 21 years? Because listeners might know a bit about Whistlepig and say, hey, I remember when Whistlepig launched in 2007. It's 2023. So if you do the math, that's 16 years since the company started.
[00:42:43] Summer Fancy: Yeah.
[00:42:44] Ray Latif: And 21 years, people might say, oh, well, Whistlepig didn't exist back then. So is there any kind of disconnect between the source liquid and the distillery itself? I don't think so. But why 21? Getting back to my original question.
[00:42:58] Mike Schneider: So for us, we found this distillery, we've been working with them, and it was basically some really great liquid at that age state. And so from 21 years ago, we found a batch of whiskey that we thought we could make our own through different ways, but also that was just amazing on its own to start with. and was worth putting in a bottle, right? It was time for it to come out of the barrel. So yeah, there's definitely that age gap there. But when we were presented this liquid, we just thought there was no way that it shouldn't be out in market and in a bottle for consumption.
[00:43:34] Ray Latif: How long has this been in planning? And how long have you been working on this release?
[00:43:41] Summer Fancy: It had been like two years I'm thinking, right?
[00:43:44] Mike Schneider: Yeah, I would have said a little longer than that. I think I've been working on this thing for three years now, so it was actually super exciting that it's finally launched and out out there.
[00:43:54] Summer Fancy: Yeah, it was sort of like we did like a victory lap. Out in the wild, yeah, because we had been working on it for quite some time.
[00:44:03] Ray Latif: So two, three years, yeah, yeah, Megan, what does it? What does it take to get it right? How do you know when you have the right liquid, the right whiskey to put out on the market?
[00:44:13] Mike Schneider: Yeah, I mean we do. We d on the whiskey, right? We of distillers here. It's effort. But when every si distillery is like that' we like it, that it's de a unanimous across the bo know that it's going to b and a crowd pleaser as w we all have different pal a whiskey shows up at ou all of us are super excited about and every single one of us love, we know it's going to be a great one.
[00:44:48] Ray Latif: So you have this idea, you know, it's ready for release at a certain point. At what point do you have that conversation with your sales team, your marketing team about how best to introduce it to the market?
[00:45:04] Mike Schneider: Yeah, for us, it goes to our marketing side of things first. We as a whiskey making crew have a meeting every two weeks with our heads of marketing. And it's us being like, hey, this is the new whiskey we've gotten in the last two weeks that we love. This is the finish we've tried. This didn't work, this did work, right? And we just kind of throw ideas around in that meeting. That's a really kind of relaxed meeting of just like, what about this? Throwing ideas out. So yeah, for us, that's kind of where it starts between going on to that next step of like, Okay, but really this one's like ready, ready for market. This is an absolutely delicious liquid. Here's the background on it. And then our marketing team kind of takes it and runs.
[00:45:49] Ray Latif: There's also a packaging element to it as well. And The Beholden is just a spectacular package that reflects the $800 price point. I do want to talk about that in a second. But, you know, how do you think about packaging and preparing for the liquid to go into a particular vessel that's reflective of the liquid itself?
[00:46:11] Summer Fancy: Yeah, so for me, I'll kind of take this first. Whiskey speaks first. That's what ultimately the consumer is going to be imbibing. So the whiskey needs to be there. So we start there and the whiskey sets the tempo. And that's my kind of guiding light in terms of what everything else is going to happen. Of course, there's a lot of other elements that come into play. as well and that's exciting to see how the two kind of intermix and we do a lot of quality testing of course on the packaging as well so that's also Meghan Ireland I's job is doing a lot of quality testing so we like to make sure that both the liquid and pack are compatible but liquid sets the tempo.
[00:47:07] Ray Latif: It's not for everyone. Who is it for? I mean, who is this product for? And is this, you know, getting into single malt, is it something where it is not necessarily for your current rye consumers? Is it, you know, trying to introduce the brand to different types of whiskey consumers that are looking for a single malt and, you know, just an even higher tier of whiskey?
[00:47:34] Mike Schneider: I definitely think from a consumer standpoint, right? We're looking at both people who drink Whistlepig who know and love our brand. They trust us to make a great whiskey. They'll come in into looking this. It'll be something a little different. It's still got that rye spice. It's not your traditional single malt in that way. It's a little different with the rye finishing barrel to it that will kind of connect us back to our current consumers. but also bringing in some of those consumers who currently drink single malt to show them how we can experiment and how we can elevate the single malt.
[00:48:10] Summer Fancy: Yeah, I mean, exactly like Megan said, I think it's a single malt that's truly Whistlepig. It's not anyone else's because we do the finishing. So it does have that flavor of Whistlepig and the rice spice as well. So yeah, it is a thread that goes throughout.
[00:48:29] Ray Latif: This is all such really exciting stuff. It's the point of passion for me to learn about the whiskey category and to be surprised when I see amazing things like The Beholden. And I was even more excited for this interview because I was going to be talking to two women. in the whiskey business. And I feel like this is something that has been evolving in the spirits industry, has been certainly to the benefit of the spirits industry. How does Whistlepig think about women in the whiskey world and, you know, increasing diversity within particular roles as it relates to distilling and blending?
[00:49:13] Mike Schneider: Yeah, I think me, me and Liz have to kind of different perspectives on this right, neither wrong or bad, just from different experiences, whistle pig is my first job in the whiskey industry so it's all I've really ever known from that perspective. And I've always been surrounded by the women who work here, right? So our head of marketing are two great women leading that team. They put me in a position that trusted me to blend. So it's kind of a weird aspect for me, because while I know it is, by all means, not normally a women-led industry, that's kind of all I know, right? So Whistlepig has created this environment here where it doesn't feel different or it doesn't feel like it's it's just what it is you know.
[00:50:04] Summer Fancy: I will say scientifically women are better at sensory So when Meghan Ireland I get in the room, when we're hunkering down on blends or a new prototype, et cetera, we're pretty spot on with one another. Of course, we bring in the whole team, but it's scientifically proven that women are better at sensory. For me, holistically, being a woman in the industry certainly has its ups and downs, but I'm excited to ride the wave and excited that I'm surrounded by a team at Whistlepig that's super engaged and super supportive. And I have a cohort like Megan that's willing to be by my side as well. So we understand that we're of an underrepresented community. so to speak, within the whiskey community as females and specifically young females. But we're excited that we're doing an externship and we've sponsored that through the summer. So what we have done is committed to bringing on someone to bring under our wing and doing a program with them at the distillery. So it's super exciting. helping them to learn the ropes, guiding them through the distillery, doing calculations, going to the lab, going to the bottling hall and all of that. And so it's a passion project, I think for both Meg and I, just to see the next generation being taken care of. And we both believe that diversity needs to be a part of our industry. Again, it's not grandpa's anymore, it's ours. In my previous roles in the industry, right, I mentioned I've been kind of making booze for 15 years now. That wasn't the case, right? If we rewind the tape, the Blockbuster tape, back to 15 years, that wasn't the case. So it's exciting to see how the industry has changed over those 15 years. And it's great that Whistlepick has kind of caught on board and said, Yeah, things need to change and things have worked in the past. Fine, grandpa's ledger, whatever, But Not in 2023, and so we need to auto correct. And so let's throw the rule book out and let's go. And it happens to be female led, right?
[00:52:55] Ray Latif: Absolutely. You know, I am optimistic about the future because I've interviewed three master or chief blenders in your case, Megan, for the podcast. And two of them have been women. One was Emma Walker, who is the master blender for Johnny Walker, the new master blender as of last year. And you, Megan, and obviously Liz, you are quite knowledgeable and quite involved in every aspect of whiskey making at Whistlepig. So it's just great to see. Kudos to you and the team at Whistlepig for really making a point and emphasizing women in diversity and leadership positions at the distillery.
[00:53:32] Summer Fancy: Well, thank you. I think also, if I may reiterate, we are a whiskey making team. And so Meg and I are kind of leading the charge, but we love collaboration within the team. So I think that's what makes our team special as well.
[00:53:49] Ray Latif: Well, this has been such a special conversation for me. I've enjoyed every minute of it, and I know our audience is going to love it as well. Liz, Megan, thank you so much for taking the time. Congratulations on the launch The Beholden, and I'm really excited to see what comes next in the world of WhistlePig.
[00:54:07] Mike Schneider: Awesome. Thank you for having us. Thank you.
[00:54:12] Ray Latif: That brings us to the end of this episode of Taste Radio. Thank you so much for listening. Taste Radio is a production of BevNET.com Incorporated. Our audio engineer for Taste Radio is Joe Cracci. Our technical director is Joshua Pratt, and our video editor is Ryan Galang. Our social marketing manager is Amanda Smerlinski, and our designer is Amanda Huang. Just a reminder, if you like what you hear on Taste Radio, please share the podcast with friends and colleagues. And of course, we would love it if you could review us on the Apple Podcasts app or your listening platform of choice. Check us out on Instagram. Our handle is bevnettasteradio. As always, for questions, comments, ideas for future podcasts, please send us an email to ask at Taste Radio. On behalf of the entire Taste Radio team, thank you for listening, and we'll talk to you next time.
[00:55:02] Food Show: you
