[00:00:10] Ray Latif: Hello, dear friends, and thanks for tuning into Taste Radio, the number one podcast for anyone building a business in food or beverage. I'm Ray Latif, the editor and producer of Taste Radio, and with my co-hosts for this episode, John Craven, Jacqui Brugliera, and Mike Schneider. This episode features an interview with Nicola Hart and Leon Pullin of Agua De Madre, a London-based brand of water kefir and functional beverages. Love that brand. Such a good brand. I miss being in London, but I'm so happy we're here in California, more specifically in Marina Del Rey, California. Just up the road from Jacqui Brugliera and the team at the West Coast Branch.
[00:00:52] John Craven: Yeah, we drove up this morning, you know, a lot easier travel than flying cross country. So I'm well rested. I don't know.
[00:00:58] Ray Latif: We kind of flew cross country from Boston, but here I am, you know, just having landed about two hours ago. I'm feeling fresh. I'm feeling good.
[00:01:06] John Craven: You really are feeling fresh and good.
[00:01:08] Ray Latif: Stop.
[00:01:08] John Craven: Yeah, I feel like you all packed it in already.
[00:01:12] Jacqui Brugliera: We've been here for 20 minutes and we've been to Joxer Daily to watch the Arsenal United match which had a great result.
[00:01:20] Ray Latif: Okay, so Mike got that out of his system, folks, and I'm happy he did.
[00:01:24] Jacqui Brugliera: I set him up for it. I tricked Kartik into going there. He didn't know it was a Gooner bar.
[00:01:30] Ray Latif: Kartik Das from Doosra who is participating in the Nosh Pitch Slam on Friday and we are here for BevNET's winter events beginning with Nosh Live which begins tomorrow that is Thursday December 5th and it continues on December 6th of course BevNET Live on the 8th, 9th, and 10th, and Brewbound on the 11th and 12th. If you don't have your tickets yet for BevNET Live or Brewbound Live, there's still time. And I highly recommend, as we've been talking about for months now, it seems like, to get your tickets. This is going to be both events, the events of the year for each industry. You got to come. And I got to tell you, I'm liking the setup already. I came upstairs, or more specifically, I came downstairs and I saw the team Protein Everything together. excited it's like this is like the calm before the storm and it really feels like everything's kind of coming together in a really good way yes totally and it's even better when I get surprises so Ryan Coleman from hike hop seltzer dropped off not only some of his delicious seltzer, but a t-shirt for me, specifically for Ray. Yes, Jackie's got it.
[00:02:45] Jacqui Brugliera: It says for Ray and only Ray. Yes.
[00:02:48] Ray Latif: And this is a pretty cool t-shirt, isn't it?
[00:02:49] Jacqui Brugliera: That is cool. It's like, do you go hiking? In a blue shirt and a hat, yeah.
[00:02:55] Ray Latif: The brand name is spelled H-I-K-E, and on the back, it's very Liquid Death-ish in terms of its... It looks like a skateboard.
[00:03:03] John Craven: Like a metal band, maybe?
[00:03:05] Ray Latif: It's a three-eyed monster skull on a... It looks like... Eating a skateboard or a bike or something?
[00:03:11] Jacqui Brugliera: Or a space invader or something.
[00:03:13] Ray Latif: Yeah, it's very cool. Well, thank you so much, Ryan and the team at Hike. Can't wait to see you in a couple days.
[00:03:18] Jacqui Brugliera: And what's that sticker on your shirt there?
[00:03:20] John Craven: What sticker? Oh, it's just part of your shirt. It is part of my shirt. What is it?
[00:03:24] Ray Latif: It's the brand.
[00:03:26] Jacqui Brugliera: Wow, that's new for you.
[00:03:27] Ray Latif: I'm used to just seeing a pristine blue shirt. I'm used to just kind of trying to get through the... Adventuring out right now.
[00:03:34] Mike Schneider: It is actually.
[00:03:34] Ray Latif: This is actually East London brand. I don't know the name of the brand, but... It's very cool, right? Yeah, very cool logo. It is very, very cool. Now, Mr. Craven and Mike Schneider were kind enough to make the trip to Erewhon on behalf of the entire team.
[00:03:49] John Craven: Thank you.
[00:03:50] Ray Latif: And came back with- They didn't get you anything. Well, that remains to be seen. You're not getting out of the germ warfare shot, Jackie.
[00:03:57] Jacqui Brugliera: That will happen.
[00:03:58] Ray Latif: Yeah, we're going to go do that. there's a whole bunch of products in a bag that we're going to taste momentarily, but there's a product in a bag that we've been meaning to taste for at least two to three weeks right now. It came in when I was out of town when, and by the way, by the way, let's just pause here for a second. While I was out of town, this was the key, this was the best example of When the cat's away, the mice will play. I listened to last week's episode. We played it. And it was just- It was garbage.
[00:04:27] Jacqui Brugliera: It was absolute garbage. We were all over the place. That was terrible.
[00:04:30] Ray Latif: Okay, it was not garbage, folks. Obviously, the listeners, let's give them more credit. It was not garbage, but it was a roller coaster of emotions, shall we say, okay? But anyway- I mean, that's what happens when you're surprised. Hey, Mike, you're the host.
[00:04:47] Mike Schneider: Surprise.
[00:04:48] Ray Latif: You are a host. While I was out of town, this came into the office. This is what we talked about three weeks ago or two weeks ago. Pizza Hut's tomato wine.
[00:04:57] John Craven: It's like you're our server right now.
[00:04:59] Ray Latif: And why does it have the Maker's Mark wax on the top of the wax tip? I know, they kind of fancied it up a little bit. It is something we've been talking about for a while. So Pizza Hut has launched this product that is supposed to be paired with its triple treat box.
[00:05:26] Jacqui Brugliera: Sparing no expense.
[00:05:29] Ray Latif: As Mr. Craven here opens up, he removes the red wax from the wine bottle. I'm going to read, this was crafted, this wine that is, was crafted from ripe, juicy tomatoes and infused with natural basil. And it was made in partnership once again with Kansas-based Irvine's Just Beyond Paradise Winery, which is a family-owned vineyard renowned for its creativity and passion.
[00:05:51] Jacqui Brugliera: I'll say this, Jackie. You have had the germ warfare shot before and you know that this cannot taste worse than that.
[00:05:57] John Craven: That's true. I don't know though. Oregano, basil, who knows.
[00:06:02] Ray Latif: So just for listeners who don't know what Mike was just talking about, germ warfare is a functional shot. that is available at Erewhon and apparently it is something that is given to new employees of FedNet because I saw Monica... It's not hazing, it's to make sure you have immunity.
[00:06:18] Jacqui Brugliera: Well I saw her immunity and it also for me it it knocks my system into place too like it's cured my jet lag twice and so Jackie and I try to And then we had Amanda try it. It was not for her. She took a little sip and she's like, nope.
[00:06:32] Ray Latif: Okay.
[00:06:32] Jacqui Brugliera: So, so once again, we've got to all try this.
[00:06:34] Ray Latif: We're going to, but I do want to keep on this German warfare shot for a sec. When I was checking in, I saw Monica Watrous, who's not, she's Managing Director. And she said, yeah, Mike gave me this German warfare shot. And he's like, oh, it's like, oh. Apparently it's a rite of passage thing. I'm like, I never did that. She's like, no, you didn't. And I'm like, no. But then again, I came in a while ago.
[00:06:53] John Craven: I don't know. It just like burns everything in your nostrils and your throat. But afterwards you feel accomplished and you feel like you're going to be good for the next eight days as far as you're
[00:07:04] Ray Latif: Why don't I just do a shot of bourbon instead then?
[00:07:07] John Craven: I don't know, that's like toxins.
[00:07:11] Jacqui Brugliera: This is a lot harder to do than a shot of bourbon.
[00:07:13] John Craven: I can smell this.
[00:07:15] Jacqui Brugliera: Hold on, hold on, hold on.
[00:07:16] John Craven: Let's give folks... Oh God, I smell it. It smells like pizza.
[00:07:20] Ray Latif: Pizza Hut Cork. Let's give folks who are not watching the video some context about the wine. Okay, so the color of the wine actually looks like sort of a raspberry Kool-Aid-ish.
[00:07:30] John Craven: Yeah, Kool-Aid, for sure.
[00:07:32] Ray Latif: Kind of color. The nose on it makes me flush. There's almost no viscosity. There's very few legs on this.
[00:07:38] Jacqui Brugliera: It's really weird. It smells a bit like a tomato and a flower.
[00:07:41] John Craven: It kind of gives me the chills. Did you drink it already? Yeah. Oh, no. Okay. Wow.
[00:07:48] Ray Latif: Once again, I will be on the Pizza Hut side of things here. I bet this would actually taste pretty good with pizza.
[00:07:55] Jacqui Brugliera: It is not that bad, though.
[00:07:56] Ray Latif: It's not terrible.
[00:07:56] Jacqui Brugliera: It's really not. It's not terrible. It tastes Live Winter. It just lingers, though. No, this tastes like someone took a cheap bottle of wine, and then someone ate a bunch of pizza and burped in the bottle. That is it. Yeah.
[00:08:13] John Craven: And all I can think about is I just have their burp in my mouth.
[00:08:16] Jacqui Brugliera: Yes, there you go.
[00:08:17] Ray Latif: Well, I guess we can expect that the folks from Kansas-based Irvine's Just Beyond Paradise Winery will never attend a BevNET Live. I mean, that was a pretty rotten thing to say about a wine.
[00:08:31] Jacqui Brugliera: That's gotta be you guys. In fairness, in fairness, I'm sure their core products don't have the basil and the whatever makes it taste like pizza. I hope not. If that wasn't the funniest thing anyone's ever said on this podcast, it was top five. I have their burp in my mouth. And it's lingering.
[00:08:50] Ray Latif: I don't hate it. I think it's- You're kind. I feel like it's something where, you know what? I don't think your Moscato white Zinfandel drinker out there would like this at all.
[00:09:03] Jacqui Brugliera: No.
[00:09:03] Ray Latif: The approach is awful.
[00:09:05] Jacqui Brugliera: Like as it's coming toward you and you're about to take off and you bring it up to your nose, you're just like, oh.
[00:09:11] John Craven: And then the first taste isn't bad. I think it's just the aftertaste. It's the nose and the aftertaste.
[00:09:16] Jacqui Brugliera: It's definitely like a tomato that's just gone sour. It's very tomatoey.
[00:09:22] John Craven: It's not sweet though.
[00:09:23] Jacqui Brugliera: But it's a rotten tomato. What doesn't make sense with this is usually, don't you want wine to kind of compliment what you're eating? This is like, we're not eating anything though. It's like you put the food in the wine. Right. They're talking about pairing it with a pizza.
[00:09:35] John Craven: I feel like you dip your cheesy stick into the wine. It's like, kind of like marinara sauce.
[00:09:40] Ray Latif: You know where this could work, actually? So there's a bar, and I interviewed the founder, the co-founder of this bar. There's a bar in New York that's very well respected called Double Chicken Please. And so that place, the cocktails are supposed to represent a specific food. So they're supposed to taste like food, whereas the food is supposed to taste like drink. So the whole thing is kind of reversed. So perhaps Pizza Hut's tomato wand belongs at Double Chicken Please. That's true.
[00:10:04] Jacqui Brugliera: I don't understand what you just said, Ray.
[00:10:06] John Craven: It's kind of like I've had like a Tom Yum soup cocktail before.
[00:10:10] Jacqui Brugliera: Yes. Yes.
[00:10:11] Ray Latif: That's a good, I like that a lot.
[00:10:12] Jacqui Brugliera: We got, we brought more samples from marijuana.
[00:10:15] Ray Latif: Okay. You just, by the way, you just reminded me of something. So we're recording this on a Wednesday before you pull that out. Sorry. So my favorite bar in the whole world, employees only, at least the employees only in Manhattan is having their 20th anniversary party tomorrow night in New York city.
[00:10:32] John Craven: Are you going?
[00:10:33] Ray Latif: I wish I were going.
[00:10:34] John Craven: I could see you doing a crazy flight back.
[00:10:36] Ray Latif: Yeah, I would have flown back. The Taste Radio of jets in the shop. But I was invited to go and get this. They have a Negroni friggin' fountain at this thing.
[00:10:47] Jacqui Brugliera: Oh, wow. They're going to, yes. And I'm missing it.
[00:10:50] Ray Latif: You would not drink from that. What do you mean, put my face in it like a bubbler?
[00:10:54] John Craven: No. Going with your little cup and fill it? Yes. I don't know. You don't seem like a fountain or fondue person kind of thing.
[00:11:01] Ray Latif: Fondue, hell no. Okay. Oh my God. You just made me sick thinking about that. Okay. No, but Negroni, it's all alcohol. So it's like, you're not going to get sick from drinking alcohol.
[00:11:09] Mike Schneider: That's true. That didn't make any sense. He does have somebody else's burp in his mouth. That's true.
[00:11:16] Jacqui Brugliera: I got more weird.
[00:11:17] Ray Latif: I think we're past Pizza Hut. Thank you so much to the folks from Pizza Hut for sending us some product. It was interesting. Yeah.
[00:11:23] John Craven: I've never tried anything like it. How do we get rid of it? It was unique.
[00:11:26] Jacqui Brugliera: Well, we have a lot of other products here. Okay, we can Protein Everything off the table here. Surprises. Oh, this is a good idea, right?
[00:11:31] Ray Latif: There you go. There's two.
[00:11:32] Jacqui Brugliera: Just put it all together.
[00:11:34] Ray Latif: Okay, so there goes the wine.
[00:11:36] Jacqui Brugliera: Anyone? Anyone drink it? Now someone gets to drink that.
[00:11:38] Ray Latif: This is like, what's that movie? Gangs of New York, where you just drink the swill that everybody else leaves out.
[00:11:44] John Craven: All right, where do we start here?
[00:11:46] Ray Latif: Unknown.
[00:11:46] John Craven: There's a pile and it all looks good.
[00:11:51] Ray Latif: So we were talking about water kefir at the top of the show. Agua De Madre's water kefir is more specific. And I have here in my hand, a brand called KIF. K-I-F. And they make kefir water. I thought it was water kefir. Now it's kefir water. It's kefir water. Take your pick.
[00:12:04] John Craven: I guess it could go either way.
[00:12:05] Ray Latif: Okay, they might be called KIF. Oh, yes, actually that makes a lot of sense. It's called Keef. And so it's described as a fizzy probiotic drink. This variety that I have in my hand is their passion fruit and lemongrass variety. As John Craven is ripping into some mango, dried mango.
[00:12:21] Mike Schneider: What's going on over there? He's got the giggles. Is it spicy?
[00:12:24] Ray Latif: What is happening? Okay, maybe we should... All right, hold on.
[00:12:28] Jacqui Brugliera: We've got to pause for a second. John just ripped into Senor Mango.
[00:12:31] Ray Latif: Senor Mango.
[00:12:32] Jacqui Brugliera: And he's dying over there. Is it spicy? It must be. A little more leathery than I thought.
[00:12:40] Mike Schneider: You can't eat it?
[00:12:42] Jacqui Brugliera: It's pretty hard to bite. It's got a little spice kick to it. It's pretty good.
[00:12:46] Ray Latif: I remember this brand from the Snack Shot event that we did with Andrea Hernandez a couple of years ago before Expo West.
[00:12:54] Jacqui Brugliera: Oh, it's spicy. Dude, I'm dying.
[00:12:56] Ray Latif: Well, maybe you shouldn't have ripped into the mango before we were talking about Keef.
[00:12:59] Jacqui Brugliera: Well, when I started laughing, I kind of inhaled the spice on it, and it's like the tickle in your throat.
[00:13:05] Ray Latif: Okay, this is just, everyone shouldn't be chewing into the microphone at once. This is why Joe is giving us the stare of death over there. Joe Cratchy, our audio engineer.
[00:13:13] Jacqui Brugliera: This is hashtag Joe.
[00:13:15] Ray Latif: He's like, I listen to this stuff all the time. He doesn't sound like that.
[00:13:19] John Craven: Why do you make me do this? This tastes like it should go with a margarita.
[00:13:22] Jacqui Brugliera: Well, we have no margaritas, but I'm going to crack into a can of Floin.
[00:13:26] Ray Latif: Can I see the Senor Mango before we just hop over those guys? So Senor Mango, a brand of dried mango products, obviously. They have some really minimalist branding. It looks like a rabbit almost.
[00:13:39] Jacqui Brugliera: It looks like a rabbit.
[00:13:40] Ray Latif: It's a mango with ears. It's a mango with ears and shades. What else is on the front of the pack here is that it has, it's made with organic mango, it's vegan, it's kosher, and it's from Mexico with love. Okay.
[00:13:51] Jacqui Brugliera: Pretty tasty.
[00:13:52] Ray Latif: And it's spicy. And it's spicy. Well, this is their mucho gusto variety. Excuse me, their enchilado variety.
[00:13:58] Jacqui Brugliera: That stuff is phenomenal, by the way. I mean, that is a really good product. It's very tasty. And also, it's surprisingly spicy.
[00:14:06] John Craven: Yeah, it's got a kick.
[00:14:07] Jacqui Brugliera: Back to Keefe for a second. I met the founder of Keefe like two Expo Wests ago, and it was almost secret vial then. And now the can has come a long way. It's very psychedelic looking. It definitely pops out on the shelf Next Stop other products. I'm not sure that necessarily you would know that it's Kefir water, and I don't know what that's supposed to look like, because Agua De looks a lot different than the GT's Agua... similar name. Not sure what it is. They have their own. And then Keef, look, they all look very different, but this is a really tasty product.
[00:14:40] Ray Latif: I'm still hung up on this because it was, it used to be called water kefir. And now all of a sudden I'm seeing even Agua De Madre calls them, their products, kefir water. When did that change?
[00:14:51] John Craven: Maybe more people are understanding what kefir or kefir is. Is that leading with that?
[00:14:55] Jacqui Brugliera: Embrace change, Ray. We have passion fruit, lemongrass, and guava basil. Anyone? Is that the basil? Yeah. I'm over here doing my own sampling. Okay.
[00:15:02] Ray Latif: Do you guys?
[00:15:03] Jacqui Brugliera: This will compliment the Pizza Hut. Can you pass that to Jackie? Okay. Would you like some? Thank you. I have clean hands. Do you?
[00:15:11] Ray Latif: There you go. Okay. We'll find out for sure if I'm not here on Saturday.
[00:15:14] John Craven: That's tasty. It's nice and light. It's not sweet.
[00:15:17] Jacqui Brugliera: So Monica Watrous was asking me about it because she she wants to like like kombucha but she just can't get over the like the vinegary the funk funk of it yeah this is like super good yeah it's delicious you know what gives me vibes off my favorite squirt Kind of like grapefruity a little bit maybe fresca a little bit like that too. It's so good. It's such a good product Okay, it's good.
[00:15:43] Ray Latif: It's come a long way. It tastes good. The branding is pretty good Is this gonna be in Walmart in three years?
[00:15:49] Jacqui Brugliera: I hope but it won't probably not it looks it looks pretty like oh
[00:15:53] Ray Latif: Okay, so what would get this in Walmart? What does it need to do to get into mainstream retailers?
[00:15:58] John Craven: People need to know what it is.
[00:15:59] Jacqui Brugliera: Well, first, it's a little too psychedelic looking on the label for the mainstream. It doesn't like jump out at you what it is. And then also Guava Basil's and Passion Fruit Lemongrass are not the most accessible flavors. So like some of those things would give you a better chance in the mainstream. Because, like, it's a really tasty drink.
[00:16:17] John Craven: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it still feels very craft.
[00:16:19] Ray Latif: You know what I would do? What's that? Call it soda. Yeah, drop the key for water, drop the fizzy probiotic drink, and just call it soda.
[00:16:25] Jacqui Brugliera: That's not bad advice, Ray. In fact, Jackie and I gave the same advice to UK brand Bellydance, who's doing something similar to this. also a phenomenal product but and brand new.
[00:16:35] John Craven: It is cool that both of them are like taking a very like fun playful approach so it's not like very technical and functional.
[00:16:42] Jacqui Brugliera: They should definitely talk to one another though because they're both trying to make it into like they're trying to make kefir water a thing when they don't need to like just as Ray said it's it's enough like a soda to be a soda and something people would love it.
[00:16:52] Ray Latif: Well the irony of this is if this were described as a soda four or five years ago I'd be like don't call it a soda.
[00:16:58] Jacqui Brugliera: Right.
[00:16:58] Ray Latif: So in four or five years, I mean, maybe Kefir water is a big thing. Maybe it is something that's a little bit more understood among Americans.
[00:17:05] Jacqui Brugliera: I feel like this is like, bye with coffee fruit, and they just went away from the coffee fruit and were just like, hey, this is a great, a great water drink.
[00:17:12] Ray Latif: Yeah, and there are exceptions. I mean, I think kombucha, I don't think anyone ever thought they'd see HealthAid and GTs and some other brands in a Walmart, but here they are. But again, I think with this, it definitely acts like, feels like, tastes like a better-for-you soda. So make it easy for people to understand what it is, how it should play into your daily lives, and perhaps it'll get you into mainstream retailers.
[00:17:37] Jacqui Brugliera: You hit this already too. What is going on over there? Are you one of the star? I ate that before you guys, while you guys were off screwing around watching football. I decided to have a French Squirrel.
[00:17:50] John Craven: So we have his scraps.
[00:17:51] Ray Latif: So Mike has in his hand some French Squirrel bites.
[00:17:55] Jacqui Brugliera: The peanut butter chocolate protein bites. These are delicious. I really like the packaging. These were in the refrigerated case at Air Juan. packaging is nice and simple and clean. And we had had French Squirrel in a Lexington Bakes product recently. So actually had never tried the French Squirrel product by itself. So their nut butters are really, really tasty.
[00:18:17] Ray Latif: So my question is why protein? Why, why incorporate protein into these snacks?
[00:18:21] Jacqui Brugliera: Why not? Yeah, why not? What else are you gonna put in there?
[00:18:23] Ray Latif: I don't just keep them being nice nieces and nephews.
[00:18:38] Jacqui Brugliera: It's got nut butter in it, which naturally has some level of protein in it. You know, they kicked it up a little bit. It just did.
[00:18:45] John Craven: What's a beret or berets?
[00:18:47] Ray Latif: Beret. Like a hat.
[00:18:49] Jacqui Brugliera: Berets?
[00:18:49] John Craven: Yeah, beret. Oh, these are little hats?
[00:18:51] Jacqui Brugliera: It's a French Squirrel beret. It's French, a beret. Interesting. It is a boy if I said like that It's this guy's wearing a braid it's a little cat mascot on the top It's hard to see this.
[00:19:05] Ray Latif: Yes. Yes. Yeah, but totally DNS.
[00:19:08] Jacqui Brugliera: It might be a dog I think we're gonna see French Squirrel at Nosh live. Oh
[00:19:12] Ray Latif: But again, I think this is something we touched on a couple episodes back. There's protein Protein Everything now. And I think consumers are trying to figure out what the best consumable for protein is. Is it a cookie? Is it a shake? Is it a beret?
[00:19:29] Jacqui Brugliera: Is it everywhere?
[00:19:30] Ray Latif: Is it everywhere. And I think for me, if the protein at all changes the flavor and changes what I come to expect for French Squirrel, I would not put it in there.
[00:19:40] Jacqui Brugliera: Well, you should try that because it doesn't. I don't have any more hand sanitizer. It's super decadent.
[00:19:44] John Craven: It doesn't taste like a protein bar or anything.
[00:19:47] Jacqui Brugliera: It tastes like a healthy treat. It's nice and fluffy. These are also, just to point out, I mean, you know, we got a bunch of this, what is this one? WBS, a better for you chocolate chip cookie, eight grams of protein. We got these Nelly's, more refrigerator bars, also promoting protein. I think, what is this one? I have eight grams as well.
[00:20:06] Ray Latif: You know what it is? But just to touch on that, I think what adding protein does, especially for the heroin consumer, is gives them permission to buy a sweet snack.
[00:20:18] Jacqui Brugliera: Well, yeah, but I mean, again, like this was at one point on the side of a Snickers bar too, was protein content. So,
[00:20:25] Ray Latif: O'Reilly Well, I think they added that after. It wasn't on there for a while.
[00:20:30] Jacqui Brugliera: Lewis Like I said, at one point, it was something they were promoting on there. So, I mean, it is just like an understood function that, to some degree, I would say, Next Stop calories, is a good barometer of how much sustenance a product has, right? So, I think consumers get that. The person who really cares about protein Do they want eight grams of protein? No, probably not. But I mean, this is like the casual, you know, better for you snack consumer. You should ask the founder of Sprinkle Bites, who makes sprinkleable protein, like that you can put on desserts and stuff. What's it called? Just Sprinkle Bites. They just applied for Elevator Talk. So you're going to get a chance to have all your questions answered. Okay.
[00:21:12] John Craven: Yeah. I feel like products have come a long way. Whereas when you had a protein call out, you thought that it might Taste Radio because they're adding just like protein, but now a lot of things taste good. And if they have good branding, then you're like, Oh, I'll try that.
[00:21:25] Jacqui Brugliera: This is also, I think it's different in a snack than a beverage too. Or like some of the beverages that have it added start actually tasting a little weird. But again, these are like nut butter based. So. And Feisty Soda is trying to solve that problem as we speak, you know, over in the UK where they've got this protein soda. It gives you 10 grams of protein or 12 grams of protein and still has a little bit of protein taste. I know V Cutting's working on that with her parents in the lab, trying to figure out how to make it taste better. It tastes good, but it, you know, continuously can, it can always be better.
[00:21:57] Ray Latif: Well, I just want to touch on this Nelly's Organic one more time, because this to me does look like a candy bar, which is a good thing. I appreciate the fact, because if I'm looking for a candy bar, this looks like a great one. Chunky almond butter, organic Whole Foods covered in dark chocolate. And on the side, if you want to turn to the side, you see soy-free, plant-based, gluten-free, six grams of sugar, which is really great, and eight grams of protein and six grams of fiber. For me, they're not really as in your face about the protein content, which is better. I like this approach a lot.
[00:22:26] Jacqui Brugliera: Well, I think some of this is just from the nuts. Like, you know, it's not like it's added protein.
[00:22:30] Ray Latif: Right, but the point I'm trying to make is don't overdo or overstate the protein content. Just be who you are and look as delicious as possible.
[00:22:40] Jacqui Brugliera: So, protein, not bro-team?
[00:22:44] Ray Latif: I'd say make it appealing to the eye and palate first and then go functional second, go function second.
[00:22:52] John Craven: That's just me. I think just like quality of the product too. Like this says like French Squirrel, no refined sugar. Like there's certain call-outs that just make you feel like, okay, this is quality. Right. And then the nutrition facts backs that up and then makes you feel better about what you're consuming. Exactly.
[00:23:06] Ray Latif: To your point, Jackie. Hold on. Organic Whole Foods.
[00:23:10] Jacqui Brugliera: This is sitting over here with this bar.
[00:23:11] Ray Latif: What are you doing?
[00:23:13] Jacqui Brugliera: Ray, I took a bite off this bar. And now I'm going to pass it to you because I know it's Ray for you. It looks appealing, but this is like a Butterfinger bar. Oh, man. Really? But with real good ingredients.
[00:23:24] Ray Latif: That's what we've been talking about. Yeah. It doesn't need to be anything more than that.
[00:23:28] Jacqui Brugliera: It just needs to be a little bit better for you. I'm going to pass this by Ray because he's not taking it.
[00:23:31] Ray Latif: Of course I'm not going to take that. Don't bite right out of that, Jackie.
[00:23:34] John Craven: I'm not. Don't do it.
[00:23:36] Jacqui Brugliera: That is really good.
[00:23:38] Ray Latif: Super good. Okay, we have to end the show now. Thank you very much for listening. So to be clear, it's F-L-O-W-I-N.
[00:24:04] Jacqui Brugliera: Yes, live in flow.
[00:24:05] Ray Latif: Okay, live in flow. All right. It looks like Yoohoo.
[00:24:09] Jacqui Brugliera: Someone? Yeah, it looks like chocolate milk. Someone drank this scotch?
[00:24:12] Ray Latif: Is this a new glass?
[00:24:13] John Craven: Yeah. Is this a new glass? I feel like chocolate milk's coming back. It smells like Yoohoo. Here, have a Yoohoo. All right.
[00:24:17] Jacqui Brugliera: It's not really like Yoohoo.
[00:24:18] Ray Latif: In fact, I think the color scheme is the flip, the reverse of YooHoo. So you have a brown can with yellow font. So it's a YooHoo, but better for you.
[00:24:30] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah, they've, well, I mean, they've got other flavors. It's a little smoky. Grab this, just the cold brew coffee one too. What is the smoke from? Yeah, it is very smoky. Oh, what's the smokiness? Someone would have to look at the ingredients.
[00:24:43] Ray Latif: On the back here, it talks about biohacks. So you have fulvic minerals, you have B vitamins, you have L-theanine. I bet the fulvic minerals are where we get the smokiness.
[00:24:55] Jacqui Brugliera: I like this. I like the smokiness. It's definitely a differentiator. I haven't really tasted that in a coffee. Maybe I'm just not drinking enough Biohack coffee, but, because I'm more of a coffee purist, but this stuff is, this stuff's really tasty.
[00:25:11] Ray Latif: Again, you know, on the front of the can it talks about how it's natural biohacks. Natural biohacks is underneath the logo, which is vertical. B vitamins, L-theanine, fulvic minerals, mocha latte with almond milk. I love this product. Where does it go from here in terms of attracting a mainstream audience? I don't know. I think you got to get rid of a lot of the stuff, unfortunately. that make it the reason why heroin consumers would buy it. So maybe you get the heroin consumer, but you're definitely not going to get the target consumer.
[00:25:41] John Craven: I feel like it's pretty technical. Yes. I don't even know what fulvic minerals are.
[00:25:46] Jacqui Brugliera: We'll have to do some research and report back. That's the stuff that makes black water black.
[00:25:52] Ray Latif: Can I ask you a question? So, yes, it's really great to get into heroin as your first retailer. And yes, this would probably attract an heroin buyer. But if you stripped it down and just said, it's flown, mocha latte with almond milk, and maybe you put some of the buy-hacking call-outs and left them on the back, Wouldn't that be a slightly better approach? Or do you think that the Erwan buyer has to see that in the front?
[00:26:17] Jacqui Brugliera: I don't think it's just the Erwan buyer. It's just point of differentiation. I mean, it is something, it's something that catches the eye. I mean, we're going to remember it, talk about it. I mean, I think other people will too. Yeah, but that's just us. No, but I think other people will. This is a pretty clean label though, for the most part. Yeah, it's very clean. They found a way to put a lot of things on here, but you can read them all. And I guess the thing that I would say isn't my favorite is that they made Flo and the Hero and not, you know, something more, I don't know, the mocha latte isn't the hero here. They want you to see flow in first, and then you're supposed to be drawn in by that, and then, oh, natural biohacks, and that's not really big enough if that's what you want someone to, like, I'd say natural biohacks and coffee are the heroes here. And then you get drawn in. But, you know, what do I know?
[00:27:06] Ray Latif: Well, again, I think if you're talking about biohacks, how many people, what's household penetration for biohacking?
[00:27:13] Jacqui Brugliera: I mean, how many people know what that is? Well, there's not, but at Erewhon.
[00:27:15] Ray Latif: Yeah, right. But that's what I'm saying. Like, how important is it to get into Erewhon to the point where you have to put that in front of a can?
[00:27:21] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah, that makes sense. I think it's a stepping stone.
[00:27:24] John Craven: I think yeah, I think like a lot of brands maybe do things at the beginning and then they go into packaging iterations once they get a little bit of traction and then they enter into like other retailers and they're asking for certain things.
[00:27:35] Ray Latif: You still have to make 50,000 cans of this though to start out. Yes.
[00:27:38] John Craven: They have lots of friends.
[00:27:39] Ray Latif: You have to drink a lot of these. And I want to be clear to the founders of Flow-In, I think you have a great product.
[00:27:46] Jacqui Brugliera: It's really tasty.
[00:27:47] Ray Latif: I think you've got a lot going on here.
[00:27:49] Jacqui Brugliera: The liquid is the most important thing. It tastes amazing. You've nailed this liquid. Speaking of friends, I made some new friends accidentally today. Of course, not intentionally. So I took a picture of Better Booch and in the background of the photo of Better Booch was Remember Kombucha and the founders spied it on my Instagram like, hey, we're there too and I was like oh so cool so we had a conversation they're gonna send some to the office so I picked some up we picked some up when we were there to bring to the show to see to taste it it's remember is RMBR and this is like just a cool-looking can and it you can't see that it's kombucha very easily it's like small at the top and the call-outs are on the side and I think this is definitely an Erewhon style can.
[00:28:41] John Craven: Is that like two faces or is that a butterfly?
[00:28:43] Jacqui Brugliera: It's like the electric company. It's a butterfly but also two faces. That's cool.
[00:28:47] Ray Latif: Okay, so RMBR. It stands for Real Memories, Better Rituals. So is it pronounced rimbar or is it pronounced... It's pronounced remember.
[00:28:55] Jacqui Brugliera: It says on the side.
[00:28:56] Ray Latif: Remember, okay. Okay, and this is their creamy bellini variety. It's made with orange peel and vanilla bean. Oh, this is good. And it's described as a functional kombucha.
[00:29:05] Jacqui Brugliera: Okay, so this is a kombucha from Monica Watrous, because this is, again, this is a kombucha from Monica that does not taste vinegary at all. And it says that on the side that it's not going to. This is, we tried the lavender butterfly pea flower, and now, I really wanted to try this orange peel.
[00:29:24] Ray Latif: What? You can't pour into the same cup.
[00:29:27] Jacqui Brugliera: I can pour into the same cup, because, Orange peel.
[00:29:31] Ray Latif: All the germs got splashed back into the can now.
[00:29:35] Jacqui Brugliera: Oh my god. Oh, I never even thought about that.
[00:29:37] John Craven: Are you kidding me?
[00:29:38] Ray Latif: Here, Jackie. Thank you for the germs. Yes.
[00:29:41] Jacqui Brugliera: Oh god. Ray, you are ridiculous. I'm doing the same thing. You know, Ray, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Lost for words over here.
[00:29:50] Ray Latif: That's a great Kelly Clarkson song.
[00:29:51] Jacqui Brugliera: So anyway, the flavor is orange peel and vanilla bean, and it's phenomenal.
[00:29:56] John Craven: Oh, the vanilla's nice. Don't you like it? Yeah.
[00:29:58] Jacqui Brugliera: Do you guys want a Bliss Ball? No, what's a Bliss Ball?
[00:30:01] John Craven: Yeah. I'm going to have to take some Tums after this sampling.
[00:30:03] Jacqui Brugliera: It's a source chocolate Bliss Ball.
[00:30:07] Ray Latif: What's a better for you version of Tums, by the way?
[00:30:09] Jacqui Brugliera: There's two of them. Is there one? All right, take a Bliss Ball.
[00:30:11] Ray Latif: No, I'm good. Thank you.
[00:30:12] Jacqui Brugliera: Here you go. Jackie, Bliss Ball. Oh, Jesus. Oh, I guess I'm having a Bliss Ball. I ate another ball.
[00:30:22] Ray Latif: For those not watching the video, a Bliss Ball was just popped out of its pouch and fell onto Mike into a certain place that we can't mention on the show.
[00:30:43] Jacqui Brugliera: You got coconut in your pants, Mike. You did mention it when you said Bliss Ball.
[00:30:48] SPEAKER_??: Okay.
[00:30:50] Ray Latif: We're kind of running amok here, so let's wrap up with this better for you cookie.
[00:30:55] John Craven: I didn't touch it yet.
[00:30:56] Ray Latif: Okay, so this is WBS?
[00:30:59] John Craven: Yeah. What does it stand for?
[00:31:01] Jacqui Brugliera: It's like WCB.
[00:31:02] Ray Latif: Okay, so WBS, it's a single serve cookie. It's made with eight grams of protein, right on the front of the pack, four grams of fiber. It's described as gluten-free, vegan, and low sugar. It's a chocolate chip variety.
[00:31:16] Nicola Hart: It's just like a big cookie.
[00:31:17] Ray Latif: It looks fluffy. It does. It's um dense. It's a dense cookie and It's a hundred and sixty calories for half and 320 for the entire cookie.
[00:31:30] Jacqui Brugliera: Are you gonna eat some or just keep pawing it?
[00:31:32] Ray Latif: So what but I still don't understand what WBS stands for Well, we should read the label and find out. A wicked big snickerdoodle cookie.
[00:31:41] Jacqui Brugliera: A wicked big snickerdoodle kid. Not bad.
[00:31:43] Ray Latif: Okay. Yeah, are you gonna try some?
[00:31:45] Jacqui Brugliera: I'm going. Oh yeah. I just trying to find out what WBS means.
[00:31:49] Ray Latif: Maybe it means the world's best next. Oh, I like that. It's a good, good, good platform. Do you see your website on there?
[00:31:58] John Craven: Wellness By Samantha. Oh, by Samantha.com.
[00:32:02] Ray Latif: Okay.
[00:32:03] John Craven: Thank you, Samantha.
[00:32:04] Ray Latif: Thank you, Samantha. All right. So, apparently you got a thumbs up across the board here, and everyone just had their protein content for the day. No steak for you.
[00:32:14] Jacqui Brugliera: Anyone want a little more Pizza Hut one? We got to go.
[00:32:19] John Craven: That's our cue.
[00:32:21] Ray Latif: That's the Luke Wilson, I got to go. I got to go. Alright, it's time to get to our featured interview for this episode. That's with Nicola Hart, the founder of UK-based functional beverage company Agua De Hart and Leon Pullin, the brand's Managing Director. Launched in 2017, the brand markets water kefir and ginger and turmeric shots that are distributed throughout England, including at Whole Foods stores, and are also sold direct to consumer via its website. The products are made in small batches at Agua De Madre's fermentary and production facility in East London. I met up with Nicola and Leon in London for a conversation about the origins of the brand and their approach to formulation, consumer education and distribution, as well as the opportunity they see for retail in the United States. Hey folks, it's Ray with Taste Radio. Right now I'm honored to be sitting down with Nicola Hart and Leon Pullin of Agua De Madre. Nicola, great to see you.
[00:33:22] Leon Pullin: Hi, thank you for having us.
[00:33:24] Ray Latif: Thanks so much for joining us. Leon, how are you?
[00:33:25] Nicola Hart: I'm good, thank you. Thanks for having us down today, Ray. Very pleased to be here.
[00:33:29] Ray Latif: This is a brand that we came across at the Cheers, the Drink Summit events that was held earlier this week. And Agua De Madre is positioned and described as a water kefir, or you can call it a water kefir, depending on how you want to pronounce the word. How long have you been in business, Nicola?
[00:33:46] Leon Pullin: I started the kitchen table in 2017, but we built a fermentary in 2019.
[00:33:51] Ray Latif: A fermentary?
[00:33:52] Leon Pullin: Yeah, absolutely. Where is that? In Hackney, which is in East London, which is a seriously trendy area.
[00:33:58] Ray Latif: Okay. And Leon, for folks who are not familiar with what a water kefir is, what is it?
[00:34:03] Nicola Hart: Water kefir is a fermented beverage, and it is made by fermenting lemon, ginger, and figs for three days with kefir crystals. And what's fascinating about these kefir crystals is that they were found growing on the side of a cactus in Mexico 2,000 years ago. So they're completely natural forming yeast and bacteria culture, which helps kickstart fermentations. And it's what our secret ingredient is to be able to ferment our drink and create the most delicious products on the market.
[00:34:32] Ray Latif: And everything you produce or everything you sell is self-made? Absolutely. Sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes that's a difficult thing because in food and beverage in particular, there's a production side of things that usually people offload to a co-manufacturer and then they just focus on sales and marketing. Folks who do both end up having essentially two different businesses. which can kind of be complicated. How many people work on the production side?
[00:34:59] Leon Pullin: I mean, we have around between five and ten on production. But, you know, we can't give this to anybody else to make because it's taken a long time to develop a way to stabilize water kefir. It's supposed to be much more, much less stable than kombucha, say. So we've had done a lot of MPD.
[00:35:18] Ray Latif: And what are the health benefits? What are the functional benefits?
[00:35:20] Leon Pullin: Well, it's probiotics. It's full of lactobacillus.
[00:35:23] Nicola Hart: And so it's good for gut health?
[00:35:24] Leon Pullin: So it's absolutely for gut health, yeah.
[00:35:26] Nicola Hart: The outside of each of those grains, which are found growing on cactuses, have billions of probiotic bacteria that grow on the outside of those. So when putting them into the fermentation process, they then get busy in the water and start the fermentation. So it's a very important part of our process. but actually looking after those grains is quite a task in itself. Every week they need to be fed and nurtured and washed, so we call them bambinos and yeah that's part of our craft. I don't think we could hand that over to someone else because it takes a real skill that Nicola Hart spent years and years crafting to keep them alive and in very good health.
[00:36:04] Leon Pullin: I mean, the drink's called Agua De Madre, it means mother's water, because it's made with a mother culture. And this is, you know, these beautiful jelly crystals here, which is much prettier than kombucha mother culture. This is our scoby. So this is, so it's all about nurturing, nurturing our guts, nurturing our mother culture, which we've grown. I started in 2017 with literally this much, with a small handful. And every time you feed it with organic fruits and sugars, it grows. And so we've now got tons of it.
[00:36:32] Ray Latif: Yeah, that looks much more palatable than kombucha scoby, which I still can't go over the look and feel of that thing.
[00:36:37] Leon Pullin: It's scary, isn't it? Like a scary mushroom, isn't it?
[00:36:40] Ray Latif: It does. But the result, the resulting beverage is quite delicious.
[00:36:43] Leon Pullin: It's good. Quite different from kombucha, though. I mean, apart from the health benefits, which we have more probiotics, it's much less vinegary. It's much less ACV kind of taste profile. It's kind of more of a yeasty mouthfeel. So we're kind of considered similar, siblings, but we're not. We think we're a more accessible taste.
[00:37:04] Ray Latif: Do you lead with functional benefit or do you lead with taste when you're talking to people about the brand?
[00:37:09] Leon Pullin: That's a good question. It depends who we're talking to, because we have a load of nutritionists who are really interested in functional. But as far as every day and the way we're branding it, it's absolutely about the taste. It's about being refreshing alternative. I mean, obviously, it's an upsell of water or a San Pellegrino. But, you know, and also there's no kind of question. It's just it's just. If anybody's going to spend money on a drink, we're going to go out. And even in grab and go, you want to add value, don't you? And this is a very quick, easy way to add value. And you don't feel like you're having a medicine with kombucha. You've got the brown jar, you know, kind of drinks, glass bottles. And this feels much more accessible.
[00:37:45] Ray Latif: Yeah, I recall when kombucha was really having its heyday in the United States. It was the mid 2010s, 2014, 2015. It seemed like everyone wanted to be in the kombucha business. And then the children of kombucha started to emerge. Brands that were selling probiotic sodas and water kefirs or kefirs and drinking vinegars and things like that. And it all felt very interesting to natural channel consumers, but it was a more challenging sell to mainstream consumers until they started to use the word soda and started to really position these products as sodas, not using the word kefir, kefir, vinegar, or probiotic in some cases, or prebiotic. I mean, those were included or maybe inherent to the formulation of these products, but they were not marketed as such. In the UK, I wonder, I mean, is kefir or kefir, I mean, is it something that people are familiar with and seeking out?
[00:38:42] Leon Pullin: No, I mean, it's early days. It's definitely early days. We're definitely the market leader. It's not medicinal like kombucha, but I think people would be surprised because dairy kefir is so large here now. We're kind of lucky that people who don't want to have dairy, we're a kind of fantastic vegan alternative, but it's a different occasion to drink as well. We're not just kind of early morning probiotics. where in place of alcohol, you can drink it any time of day. We don't have tea in it like kombucha, so you're not going to get the caffeine rush. You just get the kind of natural yeasty probiotic hit.
[00:39:16] Nicola Hart: Yeah it's funny actually on the way back from bread and jam we're going through the tube station and we noticed me and Paul four different dairy cafe brands all fighting for advertising space on the billboards and all the way up the escalators and we're thinking this is absolutely astonishing that there's still no dairy free alternative that is capitalizing on this incredibly booming space. and water kefir has all the same or similar health benefits within the drink, so there's such a big market there to tap into with a much more accessible product, because who wants to be gulping down yogurt like every five minutes?
[00:39:51] Leon Pullin: Exactly, and all the lactobacillus that live in water kefir also live in your gut, so it's much easier to absorb, whereas kombucha is more acetic, acetobacillus, which is harder to absorb. So, you know, if you want to get geeky about it, you know, the health benefits we've had it studied are kind of easy to see and note.
[00:40:07] Ray Latif: Do the dairy-based producers ever give you any kind of grief about using the term kefir or kefir? Never.
[00:40:14] Leon Pullin: Never. I mean, it's interesting, isn't it? Because it's a thing, water kefir. I mean, you just look on Wikipedia, but it has had other names as well. It's been called, you know, tibicos in Mexico. It's called Japanese bees in Japan. It was all over the world. It's had historically, this is a, we're talking about a drink that's at least 2000 years old. So it's a heritage product. I mean, I'm sure I haven't, I'm looked into kombucha,
[00:40:37] Nicola Hart: Yeah, it's very commonly known in the UK as water kefir, and that is the angle that we're going down. But yeah, just to jump back to the taste, I think what really sets us aside is that fermentation process. I think everyone's raced to the market with these prebiotic drinks because it's like a cookie cutter like any other drink. You can just Create the recipe and send it to any manufacturer and they can you know, knock it up quite quickly But with our product it's a full fermentation process like brewing or similar to kombucha where it takes days to actually create the product and a great example of you know that flavor development is I like to use like a sourdough loaf for example if you compare that to a hovis or a your typical white loaf that you get from the supermarket. That fermentation process that you get from creating a sourdough gives it this huge complexity of flavor and depth that you would just never find in any other loaf that you went into the supermarket for. And our fermentation process adds this huge level of flavor to our drinks, which we think that people won't be able to find elsewhere.
[00:41:37] Leon Pullin: I mean, the reason I started the company was because I couldn't find any grown-up drinks. I didn't want to drink much alcohol anymore. And I couldn't find anything that wasn't either sweet, too sweet to drink. I wasn't into sodas that way, in that kind of way. And the only options were tomato juice or elderflower. I don't know if that's big there.
[00:41:54] Ray Latif: Yeah, well, you know, tomato juice, sometimes you're just not in the mood for one of those, and so... It's not quite a celebratory, is it?
[00:42:00] Leon Pullin: No. You know, it does affect you. I mean, you go out and you don't have... What choice have you got? You feel quite apart from everybody else.
[00:42:07] Ray Latif: Absolutely. You've piqued my interest with all this discussion about taste, and I'm going to open up the pomegranate hibiscus variety here and pour myself some, if you don't mind. Absolutely.
[00:42:16] Nicola Hart: There we go. Enjoy.
[00:42:22] Ray Latif: Let's take a swirl here. Well, it smells delicious. It doesn't smell like vinegary or sour in any kind of way. The fruit flavors that you're getting, the watermelon, I'm sorry, the pomegranate and hibiscus are really coming through nicely. Yeah, very. So the number of times you describe the beverage as yeasty is very, it comes, but I think that might be off-putting or sound off-putting to some people, but it is that in a really nice way.
[00:42:56] Nicola Hart: Yeah, people like champagne, don't they? And that's exactly what a champagne is. It's got that exact same mouthfeel as a glass of champagne, but with absolutely no alcohol in it. So that complexity that you get from the liquid after the fermentation process is what we think is undeniably and very difficult to match.
[00:43:15] Leon Pullin: Yes, flavour, complex flavour and not too sweet.
[00:43:18] Ray Latif: So for anyone listening to this podcast, I would say, yes, find yourself a can of Agua De Madre and drink it, because it's good. But we don't have, I mean, we have a lot of listeners, but we don't have enough listeners to support a beverage company. So when you're talking about communication and marketing, I'm looking at your cans. You have a couple of different iterations of your label here. What's really resonating with folks? I asked the question earlier about taste versus functional benefit. you know, what's really getting someone to reach into that cooler, pull a can off shelf and then pay for it? Hopefully not stealing it. What do they call shoplifting here?
[00:43:58] Leon Pullin: I don't know. I don't mind if they're shoplifting. I think as soon as we added the fruit, we got these beautiful drawings of fruit done by an illustrator. I think as soon as we added fruit, I think that makes it much easier for people to make a very fast emotional decision. They see the color, they see the label. I don't know if you can want to talk about label. It's quite innovative, it looks like stickers on top of each other.
[00:44:19] Ray Latif: Yes, I was actually kind of curious about that. At a glance it looks like it's three stickers on top of each other, but it's actually all one label.
[00:44:25] Nicola Hart: Yeah, so we use a process where we are printing different types. So on top it's gloss, the mid-section is matte, and then at the bottom we're using a gloss coat as well. which then gives it different layers and thicknesses, which makes people want to sort of pick the stickers off, but it's actually all in one wrap. And there's a feel, there's a hand feel as well. There's a hand feel, yeah, and it's slightly rough finish in the midsection. Something that I don't think many people have gone to that level of detail on a label, and the fact that there's quite a lot of can showing as well is quite unusual and makes it really stand out on shelf with the metallic finish. You'll notice on the old cans, we brought two so you can sort of see how we've developed. It wasn't really covering the full can before and we were sort of hiding from the fact that it was a water kefir with some areas covered up. But on the new label you can see that we've now got water kefir front and center, big, bold, and we see that as one of our number one selling points. You know, people understand what kefir is now and we don't want to hide from that, we want that to be front and center. People go, water kefir? How is that a thing? You know, everyone knows what dairy kefir is, but they don't, they're like, you know, here's a dairy-free alternative to get behind.
[00:45:33] Leon Pullin: Yeah, because it could look like a San Pellegrino if you weren't careful. So having kefir on there gives it, probably justifies the price, doesn't it?
[00:45:40] Nicola Hart: Yeah.
[00:45:41] Leon Pullin: Which is not massive, but premium.
[00:45:44] Nicola Hart: £3 per can.
[00:45:45] Ray Latif: Yeah, the label has a very modern art kind of feel to it. It feels like very contemporary in that if you go to MoMA, the Museum of Modern Art, you'd see something similar to what I'm looking at right now.
[00:45:57] Leon Pullin: I thought it felt quite sort of retro, actually. Well, I think it's nostalgic. It's nostalgic. It's kind of with the idea originally.
[00:46:03] Nicola Hart: The fonts and the colours and everything and the illustrations is all led by the designer to be kind of a modern twist on a nostalgic sort of brand with like the stickers layered is quite, you know, old school in a way.
[00:46:17] Ray Latif: Totally, yeah. And what's old is often new again.
[00:46:20] Leon Pullin: Yes, exactly.
[00:46:21] Ray Latif: Yeah, there's another brand called Ghia, G-H-I-A, which is a maker of non-alcoholic aperitifs that uses stickers and they have a silver can like yours and it's a little bit similar, but yours is very different in that, again, it's one label with the stickers all look like they're stacked together.
[00:46:38] Leon Pullin: That's practical purpose, we realize. Yes, for sure.
[00:46:42] Ray Latif: That would be very difficult and it would annoy your team, I'm sure, to no end. We briefly talked before you hopped on the bikes about a potential evolution in your positioning to include or be more inclusive of the word soda. Is that something that you're still towards soda?
[00:46:57] Leon Pullin: Well, our tagline is like soda, but good for you. So we are definitely, by saying like soda, associating ourselves, aren't we really?
[00:47:05] Nicola Hart: Yeah, there's a few occasions where I've been out and about in trade, and I'll be talking to someone about what we do, and then for some reason I'd link it to kombucha and say, oh, it's similar to kombucha, and then they go, what's kombucha? And then I was just thinking, wow, we're sort of in this sort of area where we believe that everyone knows what we're doing, but actually, if you funnel out of your own little world, so many people still don't know what, yeah, we're in a bubble. So it's sort of getting out of that bubble and trying to make our product accessible and easy to understand for the mass market as we scale, rather than just pigeonholing ourselves as this gut health trendy product we want to be seen as a mass scale product that people understand at a glance.
[00:47:48] Leon Pullin: Yeah, we did have a little time with light kombucha, but delicious. It's sort of cheeky.
[00:47:53] Ray Latif: But we've changed that now to light soda, but good for you. I'm sure the kombucha colleagues that you had were not happy with that, yeah.
[00:48:02] Nicola Hart: They loved it.
[00:48:03] Ray Latif: You know, if you came to the States, and I imagine that at some point, you know, you'd consider distribution in the United States. Every consultant would come out of the woods and tell you that you need to use the word soda instead of water kefir. And it's because that is the most easily understood and accessible term to mainstream consumers. But then maybe you're not going out for mainstream consumers. Maybe the focus is just really folks that are educated and looking for premium products, you know, within this category.
[00:48:34] Leon Pullin: Would you say Olipop was mainstream? Because we'd like a bit of their market, thank you.
[00:48:40] Ray Latif: I'd say when they first launched, it didn't feel like a mainstream concept, but it quickly proved itself to be just that. In your heart of hearts, in your dreams, where do you see the brand in the next five years?
[00:48:53] Nicola Hart: We are growing fast, so we are setting our sights on tripling our business this year, and we're aiming to double again next year, and then again the year after is the plan in terms of growth trajectory.
[00:49:07] Leon Pullin: It's in the name really, Agua De Madres, we were actually, you know, the Spanish name, we want to be all over Europe and all over America, and anywhere beyond really, and we've already had interest
[00:49:16] Nicola Hart: What's really interesting is 20% of our online traffic on our website is coming from the US, without us doing any advertising there or media whatsoever, which just shows that there's a real demand for our products.
[00:49:29] Ray Latif: And you're shipping overseas?
[00:49:30] Nicola Hart: Not yet, but we would love to be as soon as possible.
[00:49:33] Ray Latif: But 20% of the traffic is coming from the US. Yeah. Interesting. So why haven't you started shipping to the US?
[00:49:39] Nicola Hart: Cashflow. Yeah. Once we can afford to make such a move, we would be very much up for it. So are you looking for investment money at this point?
[00:49:47] Ray Latif: Are you looking to?
[00:49:48] Nicola Hart: We are always.
[00:49:49] Ray Latif: So if an investor came to you and said, okay, I love this brand. I love what you guys stand for, but Water Kiefer is not going to sell in the United States. And they asked you to change the name, would you?
[00:49:57] Leon Pullin: Absolutely. What do you mean, change the name?
[00:49:59] Ray Latif: Change the description of what you're selling.
[00:50:01] Nicola Hart: We've noticed everyone has made their own because they probably couldn't find anyone that's making it. And they've called it Café au Soda, interestingly, because that's probably what's going to relate to the US consumer more. So we'd be more than happy to probably go down that road as well, if that's what would be required for the American market.
[00:50:18] Ray Latif: Well, investors love flexible founders, so well done.
[00:50:23] Nicola Hart: Yeah, it'd be pretty cool if we could set up a brewery in Mexico where the water cafe was first found and use that as our home to ship into the U.S. It would be a pipe dream that we would love to fill one day.
[00:50:35] Ray Latif: Well, we were just talking about BevNET's office in San Diego.
[00:50:38] Leon Pullin: It's pretty close. I'd be happy with San Diego.
[00:50:41] Nicola Hart: My lovely auntie and uncle live in San Diego, so I'd love to come there any time.
[00:50:46] Ray Latif: All right, well, when you do decide to make the trip, you got to come see the office. And as I always say, you know.
[00:50:52] Nicola Hart: Next week, okay? Yeah, sure.
[00:50:54] Ray Latif: I just got to fly out there, which is no problem. I'm happy to do that. This has been a really wonderful conversation and sort of an impromptu one. We were planning to meet for a bit of a shorter time. And I said, no, you know, like Agua De Magre, this is much more than a short conversation. I'm really glad that we had this opportunity in this ballroom of the Nomad Hotel, which is wonderful. Thank you both so much for taking the time. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Let's definitely stay in touch.
[00:51:21] Nicola Hart: Wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. Really appreciate it.
[00:51:27] Ray Latif: That brings us to the end of this episode of Taste Radio. Thank you so much for listening. Taste Radio is a production of BevNET.com, Incorporated. Our audio engineer for Taste Radio is Joe Cracci. Our technical director is Joshua Pratt, and our video editor is Ryan Galang. Our social marketing manager is Amanda Smerlinski, and our designer is Amanda Huang. Just a reminder, if you like what you hear on Taste Radio, please share the podcast with friends and colleagues. And of course, we would love it if you could review us on the Apple Podcasts app or your listening platform of choice. Check us out on Instagram. Our handle is bevnettasteradio. As always, for questions, comments, ideas for future podcasts, please send us an email to ask at Taste Radio. On behalf of the entire Taste Radio team, thank you for listening, and we'll talk to you next time.
[00:52:17] Mike Schneider: you
