[00:00:10] Ray Latif: Hey folks, I'm Ray Latif and you're listening to the number one podcast for the food and beverage industry, Taste Radio. This episode features an interview with Maxime Pouvreau, the founder of Petit Pot, a brand of traditional gourmet French puddings that are distributed in thousands of stores across the U.S. Just a reminder to our listeners, if you like what you hear on Taste Radio, please share the podcast with friends and colleagues. And of course, we would love it if you could review us on the Apple Podcasts app or your listening platform of choice. In Maxime Pouvreau's world, the letter P carries special significance. His last name, of course, begins with P, as does his company, Petit Pot, a producer of single-serve premium puddings that, according to the brand's website, are, quote, potted to perfection. However, it's Petit Pot' focus on profitability that Max points to with particular pride. A former pastry chef at Michelin-starred restaurants, Max launched Petit Pot in 2014. The brand's pâte de crème, a traditional French pudding known for its sweet and creamy texture, comes in 3.5-ounce glass jars and is typically sold in packs of two. Made with organic ingredients, the puddings are available in several flavors, including dark chocolate, lemon, and butterscotch, and are also available in plant-based varieties. To meet surging consumer demand, in 2019, Petit Pot opened a 21,000-square-foot manufacturing facility in Emeryville, California. Today, the brand's puddings are distributed in over 6,000 retail locations, including those of Whole Foods, Safeway and Costco, and are expected to generate $17 million in sales by the end of the year. In the following interview, I spoke with Max about his initial vision for Petit Pot and why he has stressed frugality and cautious spending since the beginning. He also explained how the hire of an experienced operations executive and thoughtful planning strategy have helped the company scale production and achieve profitability, and how being ahead of the curve on permissible indulgence has benefited the brand's development. Hey folks, it's Ray with Taste Radio. Right now I'm honored to be sitting down with Maxime Pouvreau, who is the founder and chairman of Petit Pot. Hey, Ray.
[00:02:31] Maxime Pouvreau: Nice to be with you.
[00:02:32] Ray Latif: It's so great to see you, Max. Likewise. We're here in Austin, Texas. I bet you didn't think we'd be recording in a ballroom here at the Stephen F. Austin Hotel. Not at all. On Congress Street. No, but it's great to be here. It is. You know, I think Austin, number one, is a great city. And, you know, when you're looking for recording space, sometimes the place that's just empty is the best place that you can find. Well, we've got this beautiful room with beautiful chandeliers. It's pretty epic. Yeah. You worked in ballrooms in a past life, yeah?
[00:03:03] Maxime Pouvreau: Yeah. I mean, in my past, I worked a lot in fancy hotels and fine dining restaurants as a pastry chef. So I have seen a lot of those rooms for sure. Yeah.
[00:03:12] Ray Latif: Pastry chef, that's a job that I think a lot of people think they'd love to have. Is it as glamorous as it sounds?
[00:03:18] Maxime Pouvreau: It's definitely, I mean, the TV has made it very glamorous. It's a lot more challenging than one might think. It's definitely physical, but it was definitely a great training to eventually become an entrepreneur because you work long hours, you have to really focus, and it's extremely challenging, but also very rewarding.
[00:03:37] Ray Latif: I gotta think there's more pressure being an entrepreneur than there is in the kitchen. Because when you're in the kitchen, you do your work and then you go home. But when you go home as an entrepreneur, your work is still there. Totally.
[00:03:47] Maxime Pouvreau: It's a very different kind of pressure. It's very physical, but it's not as... You're right, like when you go home, you go home. When you're an entrepreneur, you still have to, you're always thinking about your company. And that's a different kind of mental difficulty. But that's the training in the kitchen kind of helped me a lot for that, I think.
[00:04:07] Ray Latif: I love Michelin-starred restaurants. I'm a Michelin snob. I think people who listen to the podcast on a regular basis probably know this about me. Sorry. I'm sorry. It is what it is. Me too. I gotta say. Yeah. I love to eat out. Great food is served at Michelin-starred restaurants. That's why people go there. There's a little bit of the, you know, hottie-tottieness of it for sure as well.
[00:04:24] Maxime Pouvreau: Totally.
[00:04:24] Ray Latif: It's precious. Yes, it is very. That's the best word to describe Michelin. It's very precious. But it really helped, I guess, create a foundation for what Petit Pot is all about. You know, a love for making great food, a love for high quality ingredients, a love for serving something that you would only serve at places like that. Totally. And you've created sort of a take-home version in so many ways. But, you know, you have to be a master of your craft to be able to do that.
[00:04:58] Maxime Pouvreau: Yeah, I mean, absolutely. I was always trying to bring back that restaurant quality product to the mass market. That was always the goal. And I think we succeeded in that, especially because in the US, that kind of high-end desserts in the grocery stores, it wasn't available at all when we started. And that was the whole goal. If you look at the grocery stores in France, The dessert category is huge. There's many amazing options with like restaurant quality like and in the US you have Jell-O and Cozy Shack. Sorry to laugh.
[00:05:34] Ray Latif: It just sounds so terrible. You go to European, the best delicacies you could possibly come across. Here in the US, you got Jell-O and Cozy Shack.
[00:05:44] Maxime Pouvreau: But hey, they sell a lot of products. We felt like there was definitely this white space for premiumizing this category, and that's what Petit Pot did.
[00:05:52] Ray Latif: I mentioned high quality ingredients and I definitely want to note a partnership that you have with this really brilliant initiative and platform called Unstuck. Yeah. Unstuck works with companies to create co-branded products using ingredients that are sourced from suppliers in Colombia and Peru that hire refugees from Venezuela, which is amazing. Totally.
[00:06:14] Maxime Pouvreau: How did you get involved with that program? We started working with a supplier out of Colombia, a chocolate supplier, which is used in our number one SKU, the chocolate dessert. And it's a dark chocolate. And this company called Lucre, they hire refugees from Venezuela and they are part of the Unstuck program. And so we started connecting with them. And this is how we got involved with Unstuck along the line with other great brands such as Chobani and La Colomb.
[00:06:44] Ray Latif: Yeah, I've seen your product and it does have the Unstuck branded logo on it. Is it something where there's a percentage of profits that's shared or is it just the fact that you're buying sourcing ingredients?
[00:06:54] Maxime Pouvreau: It's just the fact that we're sourcing that really kind of create this ecosystem that supports hiring refugees. And it's also reflecting also in our current company at Petitpo with we have our own manufacturing and we have 50 employees that are coming from 40 different countries and we're trying to cultivate this culture of like working with people from diverse cultures.
[00:07:16] Ray Latif: Another interesting update with the company, you recently added Elizabeth Carter to your board of directors. And that was supported through a collaboration with the Women On Boards project. Yes. Which is amazing too. And this is another incredible initiative that you're involved with. What is Women On Boards, first of all?
[00:07:31] Maxime Pouvreau: So Women On Boards is this great initiative that is started from a couple people from VMG. They work at sourcing Women On be placed on CPG companies as on the board. And we're very excited to have Liz on board, like her experience. at many different brands, starting from like a very high-end natural brand and take it to the mass market. She's done a great job with several brands and we're super stoked to have her on board. It would have been nice to have her on board when you launched Petit Pot, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. At the beginning, you know, you have to do what you have for sure. And as you grow, you can bring in a talent. And it's been really the key to the success of Petit Pot so far as all the people that we're able to bring in and work with.
[00:08:14] Ray Latif: As you know, Max, I'm a huge fan of your product. I'm a huge fan of your brand. And it has this wonderful feel of being a farmer's market type of product line where the ingredients are sourced intelligently, thoughtfully, and it just tastes amazing. Yet the products are available in mass retailers across the country. And I think about the process of going from the initial idea and creating the first jar of Petit Pot and getting to where you are now. Can you talk about that process of how you went from idea to a market-ready product?
[00:08:49] Maxime Pouvreau: Totally. So as a pastry chef, my first iteration of the product was very, I would say, elaborate with layers and all that stuff. And I had zero experience in CPG at the time. I was just making desserts for restaurants. So shelf life and CPG, I was not thinking about it. I was just making the best tasting product possible. But then I realized as I launched that Well, in order to leave the Bay Area and expand geographically, we needed to improve the shelf life. At the beginning, it was just four days. And so we had to kind of simplify the product a little bit and remove some of those layers in order to get that shelf life, but still maintain a high quality product. And that's what we did. And also the key to expanding and to really grow in a smart way was to do demos. From day one, I was in the stores sampling the products and listening to what the consumer said and really adjusting the recipe based on the feedback from the consumers. And still to this day, we still do that a lot. We have a core crew of super fans, as we call them, the petite fans, and we listen and we send them samples on a regular basis and we get their feedback. And this is how we innovate as well.
[00:10:06] Ray Latif: To be clear about what you sell, it's, and you know, I've probably already mentioned this in the intro, but you know, it's these small, what's the size of the jars? 3.5 ounces. 3.5 ounces. So not a lot of pudding per jar. Yes. But what's inside the jar is incredibly delicious. Yes. In an interesting way, it's a portion control before portion control was really even a thing. Yes, yes. But getting people to understand, I guess, when this could be consumed or why you should be buying something that, you know, is at a premium price point versus, you know, getting a whole tub of, say, cozy shack rice pudding, I think is probably a little bit of a learning curve for consumers. So how did consumers first respond to this idea that not only am I going to pay more for less, but also, you know, when I'm going to consume this, like when is this, what's the sort of day part use for a product this size and quality?
[00:10:59] Maxime Pouvreau: So originally the idea is that at the end of a meal, at least in my culture in France, you always have something sweet. So you always have a little dessert. But it's not a big portion. It's a decadent product. It's rich, but it's small. And so you don't feel too guilty about eating it. And we've always focused on that. So people, when they see it, they see it's expensive, it's small. But when they try it, they're like, oh, wow, it's super rich and decadent and delicious. And so when they eat the whole jar, they feel completely satisfied. And that's the whole point that we're trying to make is that you don't need to eat a whole lot of any products. You have to be mindful. And every time we make a new dessert, it's perfectly portioned to do that. As we grew, we realized that people don't necessarily only eat it for dessert. They also eat it as a pick-me-up in the afternoon. Some people eat our rice pudding for breakfast because our rice pudding is actually the one that has the lowest amount of sugar, has nine grams per serving. So it's actually a perfect breakfast item. It's less sugars than most yogurts.
[00:11:59] Ray Latif: I can attest to the fact that it's the perfect breakfast item because I've definitely eaten your rice pudding more than a number of times with just a cup of coffee and called that my breakfast and it was phenomenal. And it doesn't make you feel like really heavy for the rest of the day too. Right. You know, you say if like an egg sandwich or a bagel or something like that, and you're just, you're feeling it throughout the entire day, a jar of Petit Pot rice pudding and you're, you're good. Totally. Yeah. Did you have a following? Did you have some of those loyal, those petite loyalists, uh, when you went to the fancy food show in 2015?
[00:12:28] Maxime Pouvreau: Not at the time. At the time we were, you know, brand new. I mean, there's definitely... Was that your first trade show? Fancy Foods Tour 2015 was definitely a trade show, yes. Absolutely. I remember sharing a booth with someone else. I didn't have a booth of my own and there was this company, another French company that makes caramels, that was very kind, that allowed us to, like, They shared the booth with me because I didn't have the capital to spend $5,000 into a booth. So they were like, here, you can take a little bit of a side here. Did you pay them in rice pudding?
[00:12:59] Ray Latif: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's a good trade. That's a really good trade for them, for sure. I mentioned, you know, Fancy Food Show in 2015, because that's when you got your first big break. That's when you met Whole Foods, essentially. Yes. What was that process like? You know, I've had this conversation with other entrepreneurs about, you know, Whole Foods being that conduit to getting to sort of the big stage, but it takes more than just them noticing you. So, you know, talk about that process.
[00:13:25] Maxime Pouvreau: It was interesting. It was great. So the person that found us is the forager. They have local foragers. And he came to my booth and then he saw the product and then he was very excited. But he looked at it and then he, because at the time, the packaging, I was literally printing the labels at Women On my printer. And then he looked at the jar and he said, this is a great product, but please work on your packaging and just come back to me in six months. And that's what I did. I just did actually hired an agency this time, worked on the labels and then went back to him and then he put me into the first store at the Gilman store in Berkeley. And then that allowed us to be in the system. So then I could go store to stores in the Bay Area and then I got into all the stores eventually. And so that was our first region. And this is how we expanded. We would go region by region. So we started with NorCal and then we eventually got into Southern Pacific. and then the Rocky Mountains and that was over the years and then the past couple of years now we are a global brand with Whole Foods and they've been a fantastic partner.
[00:14:24] Ray Latif: Making the decision to go to a professional designer for your updated label, that's a big decision when you don't have a ton of money. Right. Do you mind me asking how much you spent for that? I don't remember. Okay.
[00:14:38] Maxime Pouvreau: To be fully transparent.
[00:14:39] Ray Latif: I mean, but it was more expensive than I think you probably were expecting. Absolutely.
[00:14:44] Maxime Pouvreau: Everything is a lot more expensive than you think it should be when you have no money. But it paid off in the end, right? I mean, absolutely. Actually, the designer that we work with is an agency out of Berkeley called Olio that we were the first client when they just started and we're still working with them today and they've been phenomenal.
[00:15:03] Ray Latif: Yeah. Taking that advice from Whole Foods, did they give you any cues as to what they wanted to see on the package or was it something where you inherently knew enough about your brand and enough about what your customers wanted to see that you could translate that or at least share that information with your designer?
[00:15:19] Maxime Pouvreau: Yeah, it was all me. I mean, not just me, but the team as well, that I always knew that I wanted a brand that is approachable and fun. I didn't want to be too serious and like this like gold leaf kind of brand. And that wasn't necessarily Whole Foods that guided that, that was definitely our identity.
[00:15:37] Ray Latif: It's also interesting that Whole Foods was the retailer that noticed you because I don't think you scream better for you when it comes to Petit Pot. By the way, so I told someone I was meeting with you today and they said, what did you say? I said, Petit Pot. She goes, oh, Petit Pot? I'm speaking with the founder. He pronounces it Petit Pot. So I'm going to pronounce it Petit Pot.
[00:16:00] Maxime Pouvreau: Sometimes I switch back and forth between Petit Pot and Petit Pot. It's both, I would say.
[00:16:05] Ray Latif: Yeah. But, you know, I would think that there are other retailers who are a little bit more interested in, say, indulgent products. But why was the Whole Foods the right fit for, and why did you believe that this was the retailer that was going to help you scale the brand?
[00:16:20] Maxime Pouvreau: I think the demographic for sure is people that is more willing to spend a little bit more for high-end products. And it's not, you know, we're not a functional brand, but we are a high quality brand. And there's always a need for a sweet craving and people are willing to indulge. But again, it's all about this perfectly portioned product. Like you don't want to eat too much, but it doesn't have to have I would say fibers or collagen into it, as long as it's tasty.
[00:16:54] Ray Latif: Once you got that deal done and you went global, that's when another really big challenge comes up, which is keeping up with production, keeping up with all the demand that you have. You needed to move really, really quickly to do so. Once they say, hey, you're in all of our stores. Do you already have a plan in mind or is it more, let's get this going as soon as possible?
[00:17:15] Maxime Pouvreau: So we have our own manufacturing and it's always been chasing the capacity. We've always been kind of behind in terms of making the product based on the demand. It's always been moving from a small commercial kitchen to a bigger one, to a bigger one. And since 2019, we moved to a 20,000 square feet in Emeryville in California. And now we have the capacity to supply the demand. And we actually just brought in this big manufacturing line from Europe that allows us to do different layers and textures so that we can innovate in the future.
[00:17:49] Ray Latif: Jell-O 1, 2, 3. Do you remember that dessert from back in the day? I do not. It was a horrible, horrible product. It had, like, basically, you would mix together a bunch of things and it would all be, you'd put it in the refrigerator and then you would have a layer of, like, cake, then, like, custard, and then, like, whipped cream on top. And it was all artificial, everything. So, what you guys are making is significantly icier.
[00:18:08] Maxime Pouvreau: Yeah, it will be different.
[00:18:09] Ray Latif: I think significantly better than that. Yes. Deciding to go into manufacturing and self-manufacturing is a huge, huge step. It has worked out really well for you. And in the case of deciding not to work with a co-man, it wasn't so much that you decided not to, it was just that there was no one who could make it.
[00:18:26] Maxime Pouvreau: Exactly. I didn't have the option. I mean, I did look for commands, but we just couldn't find the right fit. The combination of clean label, a dairy product that is refrigerated, that is in glass. It was very hard to find a manufacturer that would be able to do all those things. And then as we started scaling, also because we were small, so we didn't have the volumes at the time. And now we have the volumes, but we actually figured out the economics that it's more efficient to do it ourselves than just going into a command.
[00:18:54] Ray Latif: How do you think about the timeline for scaling like that? Because you have a short-term solution, which is, let's just move to a bigger commercial kitchen. Yes. And then after that, we'll move to another bigger commercial kitchen. But when you're thinking about the long-term, how do you align the short-term strategy with that long-term vision for the brand?
[00:19:11] Maxime Pouvreau: I mean, it's very tricky, especially when you're growing that quickly. To be honest with you, I wasn't thinking that far ahead. I was just always kind of catching up with what I had with the POs. And so we really weren't thinking two years ahead, which we should be. And that's why we now have hired some people that are much better at long-term planning than I am. And that is really helping the company grow in a more successful way, I would say.
[00:19:38] Ray Latif: You also weren't raising money. This is something you told me the last time you spoke is, which is that you only recently took outside investment, but at the time, you know, building your own manufacturing facility and having the equipment to do so was always just about reinvesting money back into the business. Absolutely. First of all, why were you wary of raising outside capital? And second of all, in hindsight, do you wish you just built a larger manufacturing facility, you know, earlier than you did?
[00:20:02] Maxime Pouvreau: Right. Actually, I am pleased with the pace of the growth that we've had, because going into a bigger plant with my lack of experience in CPG, it was just too scary. And I think it was the right path for my experience at the time. And the outside capital, it came in about three years into the business from friends and family and some angels. And I wasn't wary. I just wasn't quite ready. I think I was just I needed more sales and more growth and more proof of concept before I felt comfortable borrowing money.
[00:20:35] Ray Latif: And yeah, I guess what I might buy outside capital was more like strategic capital.
[00:20:39] Maxime Pouvreau: Yes. So we don't have any VCs on the board or on a cap table. And I don't have a specific reason for that, except that I've been lucky enough to have angels and friends and family that were able to support us from day one. How do you find angels? Networking. Yeah.
[00:20:58] Ray Latif: Yeah. I hear that a lot. But then once you do network, how do you convince them to Women On board and give you right to a check that you're going to be comfortable with? And they'll be comfortable with as well.
[00:21:08] Maxime Pouvreau: I'd say they have to trust you. Obviously, they have to believe in the product, but they have to believe in your capability to grow the business. And there isn't a perfect answer to that, except that I am very driven. And I think that reflects when I talk to people and they can see that, you know, I'm not going to just drop the ball at the first hiccup.
[00:21:30] Ray Latif: How many people have invested based on the product itself, the quality of the product? I would say zero. Based on 100% of the product, I don't think there is any. I figured that was going to be the answer because I think there's a lot of people who just believe if their product is so great, you know, everyone's going to want a piece of it. But that's not the case. It's about business at the end of the day.
[00:21:51] Maxime Pouvreau: Absolutely. And the people that are going to actually do the plan as you're presenting it to the investors, you know, like most investors, when you show them a plan, they don't really believe in that plan, but they believe in the team to really actually do the plan as best as possible. Because, you know, it's really hard to predict a three-year plan. But if you have a team behind it that has a strong track record and is driven to do the right thing, I think that's what's going to help.
[00:22:23] Ray Latif: I spoke to an investor once and he said that when you speak to an entrepreneur and they tell you they're going to do a thing and then they actually do that thing, that's how you know they're ready for investment. Yes. Because they actually walk the walk.
[00:22:36] Maxime Pouvreau: Exactly. And I am proud to say that throughout the years, we always met our budget numbers. Except for this year. It's a hard year. Disclaimer. But up until 2021, we've always done what we were going to do.
[00:22:53] Ray Latif: I'm proud of that. And you always had a path to profitability, which somehow in 2022 is really important. Exactly. And I want to talk to you about this because I think you're one of the few founders that I've spoken with that has always been laser focused. Look, profitability has to be a very, very important part of anything that we're considering. Yeah. Again, I'm sure I've mentioned this on the podcast. This is going to sound like a stupid question. Why were you so interested in being a profitable company?
[00:23:21] Maxime Pouvreau: I don't, I mean, I think it's cultural as well. In my upbringing, the idea that you can just burn money throughout the years is not something that I'm comfortable with. And so I've always focused on gross margin. I've always, I didn't want to just like focus on growth at the expense of the gross margin. I've always made sure that we're pricing the product with the right price structure in order to break even and if possible make money. It's definitely in the essence of the company to watch every dime and to be really careful on how you spend the money. And so, for example, when investing in marketing, we really watch all the KPIs to make sure that what we're investing in is going to actually give us a return. And so always focusing on that and making sure that whatever you spend has an impact and you're not just spending money for the sake of spending money. It's like part of the DNA of Petipo to be careful on how you spend your budget. And I think that really reflects to be able for us to turn a profit, even though we're still an early stage company.
[00:24:32] Ray Latif: It can be hard to measure return on investment when you are spending money on marketing. What's your process?
[00:24:39] Maxime Pouvreau: Yeah, so what's important is that we, when we test in marketing, we do at a small scale to make sure that we see the results right away. And if we see a good result, then we invest more heavily into it, depending on the platforms. Can you share an example? So for example, if you're going to spend some ads on Google or on Amazon, so you do it on a small level and see, okay, are we getting the ROIs on this? And if so, then yes, you can invest more heavily.
[00:25:09] Ray Latif: When it comes to the folks that you hire to help you get to where you are, you have to pay them well, but at the same time, you've got to be frugal because you are watching every dime. Yes. Talk about that dynamic.
[00:25:23] Maxime Pouvreau: That's a tricky part, I have to say, where, you know, it's hard to, especially we're in the Bay Area, so paying market level in the Bay Area is, I mean, when you have Google and Tesla competing with the marketplace, it's difficult. But I think what we have to offer at Petit Pot is the authenticity and also every employees that join us get stock options. And I think that's how you're able to compensate for not being able to pay what is market in the Bay Area. And believe in the mission, believe in the vision. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, of course, it's, you know, what we do is very authentic and people can feel that. And we try to have this fun and welcoming environment where you work hard, but you have a good time. And we have a good culture at the company. And that really reflects on why people want to stay with us.
[00:26:17] Ray Latif: Some of the most important roles that you've hired for have been in operations. I was speaking with someone today who mentioned that, you know, hiring an operations director early on may not be the best idea. And I'm thinking, I don't know if that's such a great advice. You know, I think operations, given its importance in scaling, is really critical to the growth strategy for any brand. There's pros and cons for sure, but in your case, it really helped out a lot.
[00:26:44] Maxime Pouvreau: Absolutely. I mean, first of all, you know, we are a manufacturer, so it's important that the operations are taken care of. There's an added layer of complexity. But from day one, having someone in operation that can also manage the finances at the beginning was key to the success of Petipo. And then in 2019, we actually hired Eric Lalar, he as a CEO who now is our CEO since a few months ago. He comes from a bigger corporation and he has this big co-experience and that really was helpful to the success of Petitbo and he really flipped the business around the past couple of years. But I think what's important is that when you hire people that have this big co-experience that they also understand how it works in a startup and that they're willing to roll up their sleeve. So every C-level executive that we have at Petitpo, even if they have Big Core experience, they're willing to roll up their sleeve and get the job done. They understand that you don't have this huge team to do the job for you. And so it's been great to see the team grow and have this type of personalities that are willing to do that as well.
[00:27:55] Ray Latif: It's surprising to hear, though, that finding big company expertise or finding big company experience has been beneficial to an entrepreneurial brand. And I think, you know, it's a fair assumption that there's a big gap in between, you know, what they and how they operate and say, like a big company like General Mills versus a company like Patipo. You know, how did you recruit for that position of COO and was that an issue or did you think that was going to be an issue early on?
[00:28:25] Maxime Pouvreau: I knew I needed some help at this point. In 2019, we just moved to this big manufacturing plant and I was a little bit over my head to be fully transparent. And I didn't like go through a full recruitment process. I actually met Eric at Expo West. And then he came to the booth and then we started talking and it just kind of happened naturally. And that was like the best decision I've made for sure. He just came to your booth to try your product and started talking? Totally.
[00:28:55] Ray Latif: And then maybe a year later he was hired. So you didn't know at the time that you were going to hire a COO. It was just sort of happenstance.
[00:29:02] Maxime Pouvreau: Exactly. He, you know, he, we started talking and then he looked at the business and then he said, Max, you've got a fantastic business and I'd love to join you. And, and it's just, we started to, we kept chatting and he almost put like a little business plan on the back of the napkin and was like, here, this is what we should be doing. And then he joined us. Yeah.
[00:29:21] Ray Latif: You've trusted him so much that, as you mentioned, he became the CEO of the company. That's a tough decision for an entrepreneur, I think, to make or for a founder to make is to step aside as essentially the day-to-day leader of the organization. I think there's a certain amount of humility and respect for what you can and can't do. Right. Was that a tough pill for you to swallow, though? Was that something that were you a little hesitant about it at all?
[00:29:45] Maxime Pouvreau: I wasn't hesitant. I knew that I needed the help and I was totally willing to do it. But I think my team is going to laugh because I'm still very involved. You know, so I'm still, you know, taste every batch of that comes out of the plant to make sure that the quality is good. I worked on product development. I still go to sales meetings and maybe sometime I'm more involved than my team would like me to be. But so it's it's a balance for sure.
[00:30:12] Ray Latif: Again, you know, going back to this notion of self-manufacturing versus working with a co-packer, there's a good amount of capital that needs to go into building out that capacity. And scrappy is a word that you've used in the past. Yes. But how do you be scrappy while being efficient and maintain that high quality that you're known for?
[00:30:37] Maxime Pouvreau: I don't know what to say. It's a tough one. You know, we're all scrappy and now we're less scrappy. We're, you know, we're growing and we're like investing more heavily into the manufacturing process. And at the beginning, it was literally just going on Craigslist to find equipment and eBay and trying to like kind of piece it together. And so it was not efficient at all, but we made it work with what we had. But we always focused on like the end product. And so if there were some batches that were not good for market, then they would not go. And there was lots of those, even though, you know, we tried very hard to maintain the quality. Sometimes it just doesn't go. And so we had to trash a lot of products. But now we're getting into a better place.
[00:31:22] Ray Latif: Do you have contingencies in place when something like that happens? I mean, what does happen when something goes wrong and you have a PO to fill, you have large POs to fill? What happens in that case?
[00:31:32] Maxime Pouvreau: I mean we just add more shifts and then just make the product again. We actually are pleased to say that our fulfillment rate is very high and we meet all our POs, which is great, I think, for a company our stage, especially with all the supply chain issues these days. But when there's a bad product, you just do it again. And so the fact that we have a shelf life that's relatively long enough allows us to have a little bit of stock. So we have a bit of a buffer. So we're not completely like just PO to PO.
[00:32:04] Ray Latif: If I'm hearing this correctly, it's okay to not be on plan all the time. But I'm sure you want to get there at some point, right? You want to get to a place where there is, there are no... Bad batches? Well, bad batches or just big surprises that come up. I know that's a hard thing. Right. Yeah. Because it happens all the time in every organization and every business. But at what point do you say, okay, I'm comfortable with operations as they are. Have you gotten to that point?
[00:32:34] Maxime Pouvreau: Not at all. And I think it's going to take some time to get there. But I think as we grow and we're a bigger company, you just have more processes in place and a great team to actually execute. And so, you know, the more you grow, the easier it gets to have the operations more tied up. Yeah.
[00:32:52] Ray Latif: You're undergoing or you're introducing a rebrand in the coming weeks and I've seen it and it looks fantastic and it's a little bit more approachable, playful. It feels like it speaks to a younger consumer in some ways. When you are talking to that end consumer, you know, what are you trying to get across with the brand now that you hadn't been in the past?
[00:33:14] Maxime Pouvreau: So the biggest thing that we try to do is to stand out better on shelf. That was the main goal of this rebrand is because we felt like it was hard to see us on the shelf. And so we worked on a full overwrap and just a better brand block that you can see from further away. But we really went through a process of talking to our superfans and talking to a lot of different consumers across channels to see what they saw in our current branding and what they wanted to see in our new branding. And based on that feedback, we worked on what we have today. And we're very excited because we feel like it's a great step up from what we have today.
[00:33:53] Ray Latif: Max, I know you can't say too much about the new products, but I want to go to the new products in terms of the thought process and how you plan for and developed these products. It certainly helps if you know what your retail buyers are looking for and what they're asking for out of the brand in terms of innovation and new product development. How closely are you aligned with your retail buyers when it comes to innovation?
[00:34:20] Maxime Pouvreau: Very closely. Absolutely. I think there's two ways when we come up with new products. First, we actually do surveys with our fans and ask them what they would like to see. And then we talk with our retail partners, specifically Whole Foods, who we always launch new innovation with. And we work with them to see what they see in the market and what they would like to have as innovation. And then we come up with a plan together. And that's exactly what's happening for this new innovation that's coming out soon.
[00:34:47] Ray Latif: Max, once again, thank you so much for taking the time to sit down with me. I got to point out, and this is really humbling for me, Max actually flew out from San Francisco to meet me in Austin, because I was out here this week. And I asked, I was like, are you taking any other meetings? You know, are you going to see folks at Whole Foods because they're based out here? He's like, no, I came out to see you. I'm like, oh, man. And I'm so glad that you did, because this has been such a great conversation. Thanks. I know our audience is going to get a lot out of it. So thank you again.
[00:35:13] Maxime Pouvreau: Yeah, thank you very much. It's been great chatting with you. Thank you. Thank you.
[00:35:20] Ray Latif: That brings us to the end of this episode of Taste Radio. Thank you so much for listening, and thanks to our guest, Maxime Pouvreau. As always, for questions, comments, ideas for future podcasts, please send us an email to askattasteradio.com. On behalf of the entire Taste Radio team, thank you for listening, and we'll talk to you next time.
