[00:00:10] Ray Latif: Hello, and thanks for tuning in to Taste Radio, the number one podcast for the food and beverage industry. I'm Ray Latif, the editor and producer for Taste Radio, and I'm with my episode co-hosts, John Craven and Mike Schneider. In this episode, we feature an interview with Michael Lewis, who is the Founder and General Manager of better for you and functional candy brand Oomph! Just a reminder, if you like what you hear on Taste Radio, please share the podcast with friends and colleagues. And of course, we would love it if you could review us on the Apple Podcasts app or your listening platform of choice. Happy 11-11 day. This is the day where everyone can make a wish. It probably won't come true, but there is a chance that it will. It's kind of a historic day too, because 11-11-22, right? It's like you add up the day and the month, and you get the year. Is that mind blowing? Wow, that is mind blowing. Nice work on that. You like that? I'm going to blow your mind one more time, Mike. Ready for this? Okay. You know why they tell you to break a leg when you're going in for an audition? Does that have anything to do with losing to Unai Emery? No. Okay. It's because they hope you end up in a cast.
[00:01:25] SPEAKER_??: Oh!
[00:01:26] John Craven: Ha ha! See that? I love it. Dad jokes unleashed here.
[00:01:32] Ray Latif: It's Not Dad dad joke. That's a real thing.
[00:01:35] John Craven: That's a dad joke.
[00:01:36] Ray Latif: The theater joke. I like it, Ray. One more just to get the juices flowing, just to get the blood pumping. All right, all right, let's do it. You know why they call sand, sand? Why, Ray? Because it's in between the sea and the land. See, another thing, These Are just like gems. I'm spitting gems here. Cut that joke. John Craven is like one second away from just like. Turn the whole thing off and going to do something else.
[00:02:06] Mike Schneider: Look at that.
[00:02:06] Ray Latif: He's got cocktails ready to drink cocktails that he's double fisting now. This is not good just to ease the pain, right? Yeah, OK. Now we are just a few weeks away, not even days, I think we can call it this point from our December events, Brewbound Live, BevNET Live, Nosh Live, and of course our cocktail component of BevNET Live, including the Cocktail Showdown. I am very, very excited. We are hunkered down here in our offices in Newton, in San Diego, preparing for the events and attendees are signing up in droves. Our headcounts are pretty high at this point, and you don't want to miss the event because the folks that are signing up are the people that you want to meet at the event and in the industry. Investors, distributors, advisors, retailers, These Are folks that, I've said this a thousand times, BevNET Live and Nosh Live and Brewbound Live are the critical mass events for the industries in which we participate. The people that you want to talk to, the people that are the most influential people, the gatekeepers, so to speak, are going to be at these events. So These Are places that you want to be in Santa Monica in December. You know, I put this on LinkedIn a couple weeks ago. It is a no brainer.
[00:03:20] Jeffrey Klineman: You got to sign up. We've got Rob Dyrdek from Ridiculousness. We've got Melissa Urban, who founded Whole30, who's going to talk about just, you know, how to build an award-winning community. It's going to be a hell of an event. And, you know, after the talks happen on stage, you can vet your 2023 strategy with, you know, experts from throughout the business. You can get help with, with your product. You can get help with your marketing, with your packaging, all kinds of great opportunities for networking at the events.
[00:03:49] Ray Latif: Yeah, you mentioned Rob and Melissa, who are going to be speaking at Nosh Live. And I don't know if I can announce this yet, so I'll just tease it. These Are some special guests that are coming to Nosh Live, some of whom we've talked about on the podcast. It's a buzzworthy is all I can say at this point. It's a, it's a buzzworthy presentation that they'll be giving or talk that they'll be sharing with the audience. So, um, stay tuned for that announcement. Is that a coffee reference? Maybe, I don't know. Maybe it is, but very excited for these folks for, again, I'm not going to, I can't spill any details yet. Very excited for these folks to be at the events and for folks to meet with them as well.
[00:04:30] Jeffrey Klineman: I'm also excited that we've got PepsiCo now sponsoring Nosh Live Pitch Slam. So that's another opportunity to come and talk to a strategic at the event, you know, talk to them about your innovation and how PepsiCo's venture unit is looking at innovation going forward.
[00:04:46] Ray Latif: Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, their snack division is looking for ways to incorporate interesting new ideas, timely concepts, you know, trendy concepts into their portfolio. So definitely a good way to get that conversation started with their team.
[00:05:00] John Craven: And look, I think, you know, the thing that you touched on before about just the meeting people, you know, a lot of founders sometimes don't realize that marketing yourself just by getting out there and making your name and your face known is super important in terms of opening doors for investors and retailers and even new hires down the road. It's interesting that big trade shows, it's all about the product and the brand and the consumer facing stuff. This is the other side of it that's equally as important in being able to make those dreams come true. So I think, you know, whether you're you're doing it at one of our events, which, of course, we would love to see you there or doing that elsewhere, you know, it's just something you need to be doing throughout the year.
[00:05:49] Ray Latif: Yeah. David Greenfield, who's the founder and CEO of Dream Pops, actually talked about this in a recent episode of Taste Radio. He's showing up is a huge part of this. You've got to be at the events present in person to meet those kinds of people. You know, having that in-person conversation, even for a few minutes is really impactful and worth your time.
[00:06:09] John Craven: Just one more thing I'll add on to that is just, you know, a lot of people, I think, unfortunately, don't realize that until they need something desperately. And in a lot of cases, it's capital. And, you know, look, if you're out there trying to build a name for yourself when you need cash right away, for example, that's tough. It's that sort of old cliche of ask for an umbrella when it's sunny out, not when it's rainy. Exactly. That's the end of my sales pitch on that. But yeah, I think pretty important stuff.
[00:06:43] Jeffrey Klineman: And one more thing to add is now I want Vanilla Sky Crunch Dream Pops. It's my job. These Are so good. Thanks for mentioning Dream Pops. I'm gonna be thinking about those for the rest of the show.
[00:06:53] Ray Latif: Well, you know, they're only a DoorDash and Instacart away, right? You know, so.
[00:06:58] Jeffrey Klineman: Truth. And Uber Eats, perhaps? Banana Creamer and Mint Chutney.
[00:07:04] Ray Latif: I am not so hungry this morning because I did have a very nice breakfast that included a new product from the team at Alpha Foods. Alpha Foods is a maker of plant-based, ready-to-eat foods in the frozen aisle, and they just launched this new plant-based breakfast sandwich. It's a chicken and maple waffle sandwich. It's very delicious, very easy to prepare. You put it in the microwave for about two minutes. It's got 16 grams of protein per sandwich, 3 grams of fiber. It's made with real maple syrup and natural flavor. Probably could have just left the natural flavor off and just called it made with maple syrup. That's just my two cents. But it's interesting, you know, like, all these plant-based chicken products that come out, there is this just like wide variety in terms of what you're going to get. I think everyone thinks, or at least everyone says that, you know, their chicken has the same sort of texture and taste as the quote-unquote real thing or the, you know, the animal-based version. But that's just not the case in so many products. I think with what Alpha Foods has created, you are getting a very similar kind of Taste Radio texture to what you would expect from a chicken patty, or at least a chicken patty that you would have in a breakfast sandwich. That is your thing, which I guess it is my thing because I really enjoyed this product. So well done, Alpha Foods. Do you guys see this on my Instagram the other day? Single in Fat. Olive oil. Single in Fat is a new... Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, Single in Fat is a new brand that markets extra virgin olive oil. They sell their olive oil in these 500 milliliter... I call these tins. Can we call these tins? Is that what we would call these things? Sure, let's call it a tin. Yeah, tin. It is a pink... label, this sort of hot pink, I wouldn't call it hot pink, soft pink label. It's definitely like this eighties Miami vibe. It's pretty minimalist in terms of what it looks like. Single and fat is on the top. There's a note about extra virgin olive oil, organic. takes up most of the body, which is kind of interesting. I didn't even notice that. Seems like we're seeing a lot of new brands come to market with an extra virgin olive oil, at least, you know, an olive oil and packaging and product design seem to be the way that people are differentiating Graza. John, you know, a couple other ones that I'm blanking on right now.
[00:09:31] John Craven: I think there's the Brightland and also that Chef's Choice, I think it's called.
[00:09:37] Ray Latif: Yeah, overall, I think the signal and fat has done a great job. I'm looking forward to speaking these with these folks in a future episode of Elevator Talk. Don't miss that one. Well, I prefer to cook everything with Crisco. So, you know, I like butter. You're not the only one. There's a lot of Crisco being used in America and there has been, I'm sure in this, this morning and many mornings to come.
[00:09:59] John Craven: Totally kidding, of course. But anyway.
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[00:10:51] Ray Latif: You know, it's not an episode of Taste Radio unless we talk about cocktails. And I do want to talk about a non-alcoholic cocktail. This is a brand that's been on the market for some time, but it's undergone a very significant revamp and new package and adopted a new package. That brand is called Ferm Fatale. We first met Ferm Fatale and founder Julie Cielo, I believe six years ago, when Julie participated in our New Beverage Showdown. I think it was winter of 2016. Her cocktail, which is a fermented, zero-proof cocktail, was initially Package Design a glass bottle that resembled like an Orangina bottle. She's since moved into cans, recently moved into cans, eight-ounce fluid cans, that is. Wildly Fermented Zero-Proof Cocktail is trademarked and the highlights of the label, the first thing you see on the label underneath that is firm but tall. This is a mojito that I'm holding in my hand. They're mint and lime variety. Their tagline is live clean, drink dirty.
[00:11:53] Jeffrey Klineman: Yes, smaller form factor too, right? Because they were in much larger bottles, glass bottles.
[00:11:58] Ray Latif: Yeah. Yeah. So, and I misspoke. They originally were in a multi-serve swing top bottle, and then they moved into that single serve orangina type bottle. Right. And they've since moved into these cans as well. It was a complicated bottle. Yeah. But with so many new non-alcoholic cocktail brands on the market and more to come, I think it was incumbent upon Ferm Fatale to at least adopt a package of the category, at least the package that most people, most consumers in that space are familiar with, but differentiating via a label that I really, I think really speaks to their type of consumer. Someone who is looking for a fermented, better for you type of beverage, but with great flavor and a sort of accessible format in this eight ounce can. Well done.
[00:12:45] John Craven: Can I throw a few cocktails into the mix here? That's what we're talking about, yeah. My desk is literally swimming in, I guess, ready to drink and ready to pour cocktails right now. This is one that I just got from across the pond, a UK product. It's the Koki Negroni Storico, which this comes in a 100 milliliter kind of pouch inside a box that's about the depth of a chocolate bar. There's actually a couple of brands out there that are making cocktails in this format.
[00:13:19] Jeffrey Klineman: It looks like a bigger Cho chocolate package or an old school CD.
[00:13:26] John Craven: Yeah, it's about the size of a CD. That's a good comparison. But you just break off the corner of this thing, pour it in a glass with some ice, and you've got a cocktail ready to drink. I feel like this would be a good, like, stick it in your Christmas card or something like that situation, or sneak it onto a plane, maybe.
[00:13:44] Jeffrey Klineman: It's a great opportunity to make kick-ass packaging. I mean, I know the one thing that I miss about album covers and CDs is that you just really could bring your album art to life and you don't see as much of it now on Spotify because it's so tiny. So this is a pretty interesting opportunity for a brand to express itself in a... I don't know, is that a more sustainable package than it can? I don't think so, but...
[00:14:09] John Craven: I mean, I would think if for no other reason, then this is extremely light. And I suppose the at least the outer cardboard is recyclable. And the amount of plastic that goes into this tiny little pouch is probably nothing compared to a bottle. But yeah, it's pretty cool. I also got this.
[00:14:28] Ray Latif: Can I ask you a question about that for a second before we move on? So do you cut like the corner of the pouch to pour it out? Or how does that work?
[00:14:34] John Craven: Yes, the corners perforated, and then you cut the plastic. I don't know if it requires scissors or not. Then you turn it upside down. It's got a nice little on the back here, your steps, cut pouch, put in glass, and then of course, all important, put garnish on. So they've left nothing to chance here. Other one, since we're talking about Negroni cocktails, I got this pocket Negroni from a brand called White Box Drinks, which is also a UK brand. This one's got this nice little Kool-Aid man looking thing. Although I guess I'd love... Oh, yeah. I'd love a cartoon character to break through my wall with a giant picture of Negroni. Just saying, instead of sugary, pretending to be a fruit drink.
[00:15:20] Ray Latif: He does look like the Kool-Aid man on the front of that package. I hope they don't get in trouble for that, but it's it's a clever package for sure.
[00:15:28] John Craven: I mean, our dear friend Brandon Partridge said that to me on Twitter when I posted this, but you know, there's a host of brands like that are doing these little cartoon guys like I think of Leisure Project. And there's another one that we just got that's got like these. Chibi. Chibi, that's right. They've got these little characters that kind of are reminiscent of Kool-Aid Man, which is fine, you know? No one's really thinking about the Kool-Aid Man. He's busting through with his 500 grams of sugar or whatever, so.
[00:15:55] Ray Latif: Yeah, John, it's interesting that you mention using a character to represent a brand or a product. I was just speaking with the founders of a brand called Transcendence Coffee, and that's exactly what they're doing with this little mascot on front of Pac that looks like a globe. It's a globe that, I don't know how to describe it. It's sort of cartoonish. It's got two arms. It's a nice looking face and a baseball cap almost. And it's used to represent the fact that Transcendence is pulling flavors and representing food culture from all over the world. Transcendence is a maker of specialty and better for you coffee syrups and coffee beans. We recently spoke with them for an episode of Elevator Talk. It's a great one that we just published on BevNET. So if you have an opportunity to check it out, please do.
[00:16:39] John Craven: Can I possibly mention two more products?
[00:16:42] Ray Latif: You can mention as many products as you have on your desk. We got time. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, normally you're the one hoarding stuff. Oh, I'm still hoarding stuff.
[00:16:49] John Craven: Another one that we have gotten a bunch of in the office here is saps in a 16 ounce can hydration beverage kind of. You know, one of, I guess now three brands that are trying to create kind of more approachable hydration. That's, you know, not in a plastic bottle, not all technical sporty and this stuff, uh, saps, which is from Austin comes in a lemon lime passion fruit and a, uh, blackberry citrus, only 35 calories, really tasty stuff. So you should definitely grab a can while you're here. Right. Saps.
[00:17:25] Ray Latif: And did you say it's a, it's a maple water-based product?
[00:17:29] John Craven: No. Sports drink.
[00:17:31] Ray Latif: So why is it called saps? Interesting. Coconut water based. It's S-A-P apostrophe S. Oh, as in it belongs to Mr. Sap.
[00:17:41] Jeffrey Klineman: Because it's made by sap, right? It belongs to sap.
[00:17:44] John Craven: I have not investigated what the origin of the name is, but I'm going to keep drinking it. It's pretty tasty.
[00:17:51] Jeffrey Klineman: It's an interesting beverage. Some flavors are better than others for sure. The lemon lime is top. The blackberry citrus for me needs a bit of work, but I think functionally that stuff works. I like it. I've had it a few times after a long run and you feel rehydrated after you drink it, which is what they want.
[00:18:09] John Craven: mad electrolytes in there. So yeah, tasty stuff. One last one here, because this is the weirdest thing that's shown up in our office here.
[00:18:19] Jeffrey Klineman: Yeah, I was gonna mention that.
[00:18:21] John Craven: This is the Ourobora green bean casserole, which it's a secret sparkling water on the can here. Also a sage extract. You know, this stuff is really tasty. I'm not getting any casserole flavor. There's no casserole. There's no cheese in it. Isn't that a good thing? But the green bean flavor and the sage flavors, it's pretty nice. I'm not going to lie. I would drink this.
[00:18:46] Jeffrey Klineman: The green bean flavor is good. I used to steal green beans from my dad's garden when I was a kid. I mean, it wasn't stealing. He didn't mind. But anyway, we just grabbed them. and eat them, you know, fresh out of the garden. And that's what it tastes like. So I felt like, again, brought back to my childhood a bit now casserole. I told them a little bit on that on Instagram, because there's no cheese flavor in there. But they told me they're doing cheese next.
[00:19:10] Ray Latif: Okay, two things. Number one, when I first saw that on Instagram, I thought it was an April Fool's joke. But clearly, it's not April Fool's Day. Everyone did. My Instagram blew up, Ray. It's for real. It's frills. And then two, Paul from Ouroboro, if you're listening, please do not create any kind of cheese flavor for Ouroboro.
[00:19:31] Jeffrey Klineman: I think that was a joke, but I thought this was a joke too, so we'll see.
[00:19:34] Ray Latif: Cheese and beverages, literally the worst combination I can think of.
[00:19:39] Jeffrey Klineman: Ray, if you haven't had a cheese foam bubble tea yet, you are missing out. I don't think I am. And you have like, in your neighborhood, you can find at least 15 places. that will serve you a cheese foam bubble tea. You are in striking distance of all of them. So you should check that out. Just go to Alston. Please share a list with me of those 15 places or more.
[00:20:03] Ray Latif: I'm interested. I really I am interested, but I'm also horrified by that idea.
[00:20:08] Jeffrey Klineman: It's awesome, man. It's really good. You know, it's one of those ideas that hasn't really hit in the US yet. We'll get there. Don't worry. We're a little slow. One more thing that we had recently that tasted pretty awesome. I was in a meeting and John Craven into my office. It must've been that good and just put it on my desk. It was the Chubby with the TBH. So Chubby's the peanut butter and jelly sandwich brand. And they did a collaboration with TBH, which is, you know, a hazelnut spread. And that was mind-blowing. Can't stop thinking about that. Send more. Those were super tasty. And, uh, you know, now that you've caught up with us for the day, don't forget to catch up with the Nosh podcast. We've got some great episodes over there as well. You can grab it on Apple podcasts or your listening platform of choice. I just caught up with the, uh, episode, raising funds and pursuing profitability despite the downturn with, uh, with Fabid, which is pretty awesome episode.
[00:21:05] Michael Lewis: Do you want more repeat buyers on Amazon? Well, this free resource in collaboration with Straight Up Growth will help your brand turn first-time buyers into long-term subscribers. Download Winning the Repeat Purchase Game on Amazon now at Taste Radio slash SUG. That's Taste Radio slash S-U-G to start building retention-driven growth for your brand on Amazon. Scaling a beverage brand into major retail comes down to operational readiness. From packaging lead times to co-manufacturing strategy, the details can make or break a launch. In a new e-book in collaboration with Octopi and Asahi Beer USA, industry leaders share what they've learned in helping brands scale. Download it now at Taste Radio slash octopi.
[00:21:55] Ray Latif: All right, it's time to get to our featured interview for this episode. As I mentioned at the top of the show, Michael Lewis is the Founder and General Manager of Oomph, a new brand of low-sugar, functional candy chews and gummies. Oomph's products are sweetened with allulose, a low-calorie form of sugar naturally present in fruits like figs and raisins, and infused with functional ingredients, including acerola cherry, lion's mane, and apple cider vinegar. The brand was developed by the incubation arm of Science Inc., a Santa Monica-based venture capital firm known for its investments in disruptive brands including Liquid Death and Dollar Shave Club. Michael, a CPG veteran and co-founder of cannabis-based brand Sprigg, took the reins of Oomph in January and has led its development from a test-and-learn phase to a brand position for omnichannel retail. In the following interview, I spoke with Michael about how Science Inc. evaluated the opportunity for Better for You candy, and why the firm saw him as the right person to lead the charge. He also explained how Oomph is applying learnings from early customer feedback into its marketing and communication strategy, and why innovation is top of mind. Hey, folks, it's Ray with Taste Radio. I am at the Philadelphia Convention Center, and sitting in front of me right now is Michael Lewis, who is the Founder and General Manager of Oomph! Michael, so great to see you. Hey, Ray, thanks for having me. Yeah, and before anyone asks, no, this is not the Moneyball Michael Lewis or the Liar's Poker Michael Lewis. This is the Michael Lewis, the food and beverage entrepreneur. who is knee-deep in making the world of candy a better and healthier place to be. For folks who are familiar with the podcast and listen on a regular basis, they'll know I'm partial to candy. I'm a bit of a candy fiend. I guess one sounds a lot better than the other. Partial to a fiend. So I'm somewhere in between, I think. But I appreciate good candy. And I was excited to hear that this brand was being launched because one of the problems with eating too much candy is that it's really bad for you. Let's just call it what it is. There's high sugar. A lot of times it's rather official ingredients. And, you know, sometimes the stuff that comes out that is supposedly better for you just doesn't taste great. From what I understand, Oomph is addressing all of these issues.
[00:24:24] Science Inc: Exactly. That's exactly right. So I think first and foremost, we wanted to make a really great tasting candy. That's, you know, by far the goal here. We knew that the candy aisle really is one of the last places in the store that hasn't been touched by Better For You and the movement for cleaner ingredients and generally better nutritionals. So we wanted to make a really an amazing candy that just so happened to have those improved nutritionals and really be for anybody who's trying to live a healthier lifestyle.
[00:24:54] Ray Latif: Yeah, let's talk about those improved nutritionals. I have a bunch of bags. These Are seven different flavors. Are these all the different flavor varieties that you have?
[00:25:02] Science Inc: Correct. Very cool. There's four flavors of chews and three flavors of gummies.
[00:25:05] Ray Latif: Okay. So I'm holding the passion fruit chews, and right on the front of the pack it says only one gram of sugar. I'm assuming that means per serving.
[00:25:13] Science Inc: Correct. For in a bag, which is about six or seven of the chews.
[00:25:17] Ray Latif: Okay. So there's six chews in here and there's only one gram of sugar throughout all six. That's correct. Wow. Very cool. And only four grams of net carbs. That is a big button right on the front of the pack, which is also good to know. I think that when it comes to, you know, things like this, the concern, as I mentioned earlier, is that these products might not taste great. So I figured what better way to address this issue than to taste this live here on the podcast, which I'm going to do. Is there a particular one I should start with, Michael?
[00:25:53] Science Inc: You know, my favorite is the chocolate. If you like chocolate, I would go for that.
[00:25:57] Ray Latif: Well, I was looking at the cherry gummies and the green apple chews. They're both fantastic. Why don't you try the green apple first? Okay, let's do that first. While I'm opening up this pack, I was reading about oomph, and These Are a number of well-known names that are involved in this business. Paul Shoemaker, who is a Michelin-starred chef, is the formulator. Well, I wouldn't call him the formulator. He's the flavor developer for these products?
[00:26:25] Science Inc: Yeah, you could call him that. He's really sort of the creative inspiration behind the types of candies and the flavors.
[00:26:33] Ray Latif: Okay. Yeah. But the business that is backing Oomph! is Science Inc. which is a multi-asset investment firm, most well-known in our industry for its investment in Liquid Death. Could you tell our audience a bit about Science Inc. and their involvement in this brand?
[00:26:51] Science Inc: Absolutely. So science, as you said, is a multi-asset investment manager. What that means is they really have a variety of business units. They have an incubator, which is what it sounds. It helps get startups up and running, provides a lot of resources to them. They have an investment fund, which invests, and they have a few other things that are a little unrelated. Really what science does and what Science Inc amazing at is testing concepts, you know, dialing into trends and trying to be right ahead of the wave and finding a way to get involved in that space, which is exactly what happened with oomph. So, you know, starting maybe 18 months ago, they were looking at the better for you space in general, like across food and beverage, they saw really a gap in the market, in the confection and candy. And so they just started testing around there and, you know, trying to figure out what's the best way to bring an exciting brand that tastes amazing and has, you know, sort of rides that wave of better for you.
[00:28:00] Ray Latif: They were working on this at least a year before the product launch, which is, and the product is launching, the brand is launching here at Expo essentially.
[00:28:08] Science Inc: Correct. Yeah, this dates to probably, you know, towards the beginning of 2021. Just coming up with a sort of a very high level idea of, OK, we want to be in candy. No one's really nailed, you know, better for you candy. There's a lot of low sugar candy, but that broader category of better for you. No one's quite there yet. What does that mean? You know, what types of form factors do we want to look at? And they just really started testing very digitally native, you know, putting up different pieces of content, seeing, you know, what people liked and sort of narrowing the concept from there.
[00:28:44] Ray Latif: I want to dial into this idea of no one is doing this. A lot of entrepreneurs will introduce brands and say, we're attacking this white space. We see an opportunity to be in this category in a way that no one else is. That being said, I have a feeling that Science Inc. has a much better understanding of that opportunity than most people do because of their resources, because of the data they're able to access. Can you be specific in terms of what the opportunity entails, where they saw an opportunity to be better than what existed? Because These Are better for you, as you mentioned, These Are better for you sweet brands out there. I mean, some pretty well-known ones. So how can oomph and will oomph be different and better than what is and will be out there in the future? Sure.
[00:29:37] Science Inc: So I think if you look at what's been available the last couple of years or several years, there's definitely been improvements in low-sugar, low-carb candy. That's definitely out there. I think what science dialed in on and what really got them excited in the beginning was actually starting with keto. They thought, there's really Not Dad great keto solution across candy. There's keto chocolate, there's a few examples here and there, but really as a broad sort of confection category, there wasn't a big presence for the keto community. So that was the beginning. I think beyond that, the functional ingredients, you really don't see a whole lot of that present in other candy brands. So, you know, we have a few things in here. We have, in the chews, there's apple cider vinegar, you know, which is good for glycemic moderation. There's acerola, which is a cherry-derived vitamin C. And then in our chocolate chew, there's a lion's mane mushroom. I think that was the next step, too, that they really didn't see anything like that at the moment. And are consumers looking for functional ingredients in products like these? Great question. So part of the testing was. What's really more important to people? Is it low sugar at the end of the day? Is that really the draw? Or is it the functional side? I would put it this way. I would say that low sugar might be the hook that draws people in because that's the most broadly appealing thing. But what maybe perks people's ears up once they've looked a little closer are the functional ingredients. Because they've never really thought of candy as a performance product. It's an indulgence. And this is a new spin. It's looking at candy through a different light.
[00:31:16] Ray Latif: The brand originated with Science Inc. However, your alignment with the brand came a little bit later. Talk about how you stepped into this role as Founder and General Manager.
[00:31:29] Science Inc: Sure. So I'll back up just a little bit, just to give a little more context. So once Science, you know, landed on this concept, started testing it, got excited by what they were seeing just from customer data, they started to refine it. So they said, you know, how do we make something first of all, just taste fantastic and really be true to the spirit of candy. So they tapped a guy by the name of Paul Shoemaker, who's a Michelin star chef. He worked at French Laundry with Thomas Keller. He's worked at a number of other restaurants, has owned his own restaurants. So they got him on sort of on the creative side early on. And they also brought on another person, Randy Hofberger, who's a candy formulator. He worked at Nestle for over 20 years. And they brought him in more on the technical side to make sure that These Are commercial scalable recipes. So you have this team and then I stepped in in January.
[00:32:19] Ray Latif: In January of 2022?
[00:32:21] Science Inc: Yes, January of 2022. They had this sort of shell of a business and they said, you know, we were ready to make this to commercialize the project. So I came in and my mandate was treat this as if it was your baby. We're just kind of sending you off with a validated concept and a few folks who are really talented.
[00:32:42] Ray Latif: It's so interesting, this story of how oomph came to market, given that they did have the concept, they did have the data, they had the right person who was coming up with the creative elements, the flavors. It seemed like they had the right formulator on board, but the missing piece seemed to be an entrepreneur. You are an entrepreneur. You've been in this business for a number of years. Folks in the beverage industry will probably be familiar with your first brand, or your first brand in the food and beverage industry, Sprig, which is a cannabis-based brand. What did the beverage industry teach you about being an entrepreneur?
[00:33:19] Science Inc: So I think, you know, in beverage and specifically in cannabis beverage at that time, you know, 2013, 2014 coming up with that idea, like you have to have this sort of maniacal confidence in what you're doing and really believe in the concept because exactly what you said. There's so much thrown at you. It costs so much money to do it properly. Even with cannabis as an added thing, it's like, the regulation's so difficult to deal with, as we all know now. So it just takes this sort of perseverance and this I-will-find-a-solution mentality that you have to remind yourself literally every day or sometimes every hour that you're going to do that. And I think, you know, as it relates to oomph, we're similarly ahead of the curve. I mean, Better For You as a trend has been around now for many years, but I think within candy, within confection, it's still very new. People are really dedicated to thinking of candy as this indulgent treat that, while it might not be good for you, it makes you feel good. It's a treat. And we're We're really trying to tell them like, you can have that same experience, the same Taste Radio texture, but you don't have to make any sacrifices. You can have a product that really is good for your body.
[00:34:38] Ray Latif: When you first sat down with and met with Science Inc they were looking for that entrepreneur in so many ways, what were some of the things that you both had to be aligned on for you to be involved with this brand and for them to be involved in your world?
[00:34:51] Science Inc: really the biggest thing was science was trying to, you know, it wasn't like they needed an operations person or they needed a marketing person or even that they needed like a seasoned CEO type, like none of that really fit for them. What they needed was really the entrepreneur piece, like the, I call it just like the scrappiness, because they wanted someone who could step in and really sort of embody this as their own and stand it up really from nothing. That's what appealed to me so much was because I didn't want to necessarily be a part of somebody else's story or somebody else's concept. It sounds silly, but that's just my preference. So I love the idea that I could start this from the ground up, put some personality into it and bring it to life.
[00:35:46] Ray Latif: Typically, when I talk to entrepreneurs, a lot of the product is a reflection of who These Are. Are you a big candy eater? Did you grow up eating a lot of candy?
[00:35:55] Science Inc: I had my fair share of Reese's Pieces growing up.
[00:36:01] Ray Latif: Well, I mean, I think that's going to be a question, right? People are going to say, well, what makes you so interested in this Better For You candy space? And obviously, there's a longer story behind that. But how do you now share the story of Oomph through Michael Lewis's story?
[00:36:17] Science Inc: That's a deep question. I think that the way the technology has developed around alternative sweeteners and some of these new ingredients that are naturally derived, but, you know, something that wasn't available even five years ago, something like that, you can just do amazing things with food and beverage. And I think that that's what motivates me right now is like we can take candy again as this sort of nostalgia category and just totally turn it upside down and that's that's so exciting to me it's not just a a slightly different riff on a classic category. It's like, it's a whole new way of approaching it. And I think that for me is similar to what Sprig was, which was like, you know, we were one of the first folks to put cannabis in a liquid. I love the newness of it and really sort of seeing people's eyes light up that it's just a whole, a whole different way of looking at a certain type of product.
[00:37:09] Ray Latif: Now, Oomph is being launched direct-to-consumer at launch. I assume the long-term plan or the longer-term plan is to go into retail, which is a big undertaking, I'm sure. What are you hoping to learn from going direct-to-consumer at launch? How Long Lists that going to take and, you know, what is going to give you the kind of confidence that you have the right foundation to get into retail?
[00:37:39] Science Inc: Sure, so we did a soft launch of the Chews in July. So we've been selling for close to two and a half, three months, something like that. The goal with DTC was to really just to get customer feedback. I mean, obviously, it's a real channel that we're going to always focus on, but We love having a close relationship with the customer. We've been sending out lots of surveys and trying to pull feedback out of people, which is really baked into the DNA of the concept, like we said, with Science Inc is very much a data-driven thing. So D2C for us is just about having that sort of early relationship with the customer.
[00:38:18] Ray Latif: One more thing, Michael, you know, the packaging, I love the brand name and, you know, you have oomph twice on the front of pack, once on the piece of candy, or at least that's for the chews. And then at the top of pack, you have the brand name. Again, you have some call-outs about the nutritional benefits or the nutritional information. What are you most hoping to get across on this package? And just from your early feedback, is it coming across to consumers? Is what you want people to feel and say about oomph being reflected on the front of the pack?
[00:38:48] Science Inc: It's funny that you mention just the name because oomph on its own doesn't tell you a whole lot about anything regarding candy, but that is the element that has come back most frequently in our customer research. People love the name because there's such an energy behind it. Even though it's, again, doesn't have a whole lot to say about candy, it's what is drawing people in. They're like, this has to be something that I'm interested in just because it's, It's an exciting word. It's kind of a throwback word. And that's really important to us. Oomph is what's drawing people in on the packaging. And then I think as they look closer, they're focusing on things like the fact that it has one gram of sugar, four grams net carbs for some of the flavors. And then as they dig deeper, seeing some of those functional ingredients.
[00:39:35] Ray Latif: I'm glad you said that, Michael, because we talk a lot about the importance of brand name on the podcast. It's so strange because I mean, common sense would dictate that your brand name has to be great for your brand itself, for the brand itself to be great. But I think it's such a strangely overlooked part. of successful brands. Oomph is only five letters long. It's easy for people to say. As you noted, it is something that people know for one reason or another. It's relatable and, you know, it does make a ton of sense now that you say it, that that is the thing that people are most drawn to. I also think that the name Oomph gives you permission and gives you license to go even deeper into the candy category, into different segments of candy. Am I right in thinking that that is part of the plan?
[00:40:20] Science Inc: Absolutely. So you're exactly right. Oomph does not commit you to one type of product over another. We look at the candy category very holistically, and innovation is really a big part of what we're trying to do. So really starting probably the beginning of next year, we're going to have regular product releases, maybe every few months even, just touching all different parts of the candy space. We see this as you know, a rainbow of oomph across the candy aisle. We're not going to specialize just on chews or just on gummies.
[00:40:52] Ray Latif: OK, please do me a favor. Folks who listen to the podcast know I'm a big fan of Snickers. And to the folks at Snickers, thank you for what you do. I really appreciate it. I'm a big fan. But I want it better for you, Snickers. I want it much better for you, Snickers. So if you guys at Oomph can create it better for you, Snickers, you will make me a very, very happy person. And you can be on the podcast anytime you want, if that happens. I promised you we're already working on that one, so. Oh, good.
[00:41:19] Science Inc: See?
[00:41:19] Ray Latif: I got something out of Michael, and he had something he didn't want to say. No, in all seriousness, this has been such a great conversation. I'm so glad that we had an opportunity to sit down. Congratulations on the launch of oomph and really excited to see where this Brandt Gehrs. Thank you. Thank you so much for the time. That brings us to the end of this episode of Taste Radio. Thank you so much for listening, and thanks to our guest, Michael Lewis. Our audio engineer for Taste Radio is Joe Cracci, our technical director is Joshua Pratt, and our video editor is Ryan Galang. As always, for questions, comments, ideas for future podcasts, please send us an email to askatasteradio.com. On behalf of the entire Taste Radio team, thank you for listening, and we'll talk to you next time.
