[00:00:10] Ray Latif: Hello, friends. I'm Ray Latif, and you're listening to the number one podcast for the food and beverage industry, Taste Radio. This episode features an interview with Neka Pasquale, the founder of ultra-fresh plant-based food company, Urban Remedy. Just a reminder to our listeners, if you like what you hear on Taste Radio, please share the podcast with friends and colleagues. And of course, we would love it if you could review us on the Apple Podcasts app or your favorite streaming platform. Neka Pasquale says that she started Urban Remedy for, quote, weird hippies like herself who wanted to eat ultra-fresh food. She's come to realize, however, that the brand has the opportunity to reach all kinds of consumers. To do so, Nika explains, the company must be both uncompromising and flexible. A licensed acupuncturist and herbalist, Nika founded Urban Remedy in 2009. The brand markets primarily plant-based, certified organic food and beverages, including ready-to-eat meals, nutrition bars, cold-pressed juices, and desserts, all of which require refrigeration. In recent years, the company has shifted its focus from storefronts and e-commerce to traditional retail. The brand is mainly represented at Whole Foods, where Urban Remedy products are stocked in standalone kiosks and end caps. In recent years, the brand has expanded beyond the natural channel and into mainstream retailers including Kroger, Safeway and Raley's, and has increasingly found a growing number of consumers willing to pay a premium for fresh and healthy food. In 2021, the company secured an $18 million Series D funding round led by Vale-based private equity firm Manitree to achieve a quote, shared goal of providing convenient, nutrient-dense foods to consumers everywhere. While the company continues to open new doors, it is challenged by the constraints of sourcing high-quality ingredients and selling products with a short shelf life. there are no easy solutions. But as Nika points out in the following interview, change and having an open mind without compromising on her values are the keys to long-term success. Hey folks, it's Ray with Taste Radio right now. I'm honored to be sitting down with Neka Pasquale, who is the founder and chief Product Officer of Urban Remedy. Nika, so great to see you.
[00:02:37] Neka Pasquale: Thank you. So great to see you too.
[00:02:39] Ray Latif: You and I just wrapped up a fantastic, or you, I, and about a hundred other people just wrapped up a fantastic conference called the Global Health Forum, the Manitree Global Health Forum, of which you were a speaker. Yeah. And you were awesome up on stage.
[00:02:53] Neka Pasquale: Thank you so much. It was really fun. You know, before COVID, I used to do a bunch of things like that, speaking engagements. And since COVID, I haven't done anything because everything's been on lockdown. So it was so fun to get back out there and talk to people again.
[00:03:06] Ray Latif: Definitely. And, you know, virtual, I always talk about this, virtual worked for a time.
[00:03:10] Neka Pasquale: Yeah.
[00:03:10] Ray Latif: But we had to get back to this.
[00:03:12] Neka Pasquale: Yes.
[00:03:12] Ray Latif: Yeah. I agree. Urban Remedy is one of my favorite brands. I should be a lot more objective about these things, but I speak the truth. Just like my last interview guest, Dr. Robert Lustig, he only speaks the truth as well.
[00:03:25] Neka Pasquale: Yes, he's very spicy.
[00:03:27] Ray Latif: He was.
[00:03:27] Neka Pasquale: Well, that means a lot. Thank you so much for saying that. I hope you're telling the truth.
[00:03:32] Ray Latif: I am. Absolutely. And I think it's because Urban Remedy stands for everything that I would want to see out of a brand that calls itself a healthy brand or a better for you brand. You use organic ingredients, you use ultra premium ingredients, you make green juice, which is my beverage of choice, and you're making these incredible, amazing snacks called Sun Squares. And these are basically squares of sunflower butter and chocolate. And they are, dare I say, addictive. And I hope, and we'll talk about this soon, that we start to see Sun Squares literally everywhere. Just the same way we see Reese's Peanut Butter Cups everywhere. I hope we see Sun Squares everywhere.
[00:04:14] Neka Pasquale: Thank you.
[00:04:15] Ray Latif: Let's back up for a second. Urban Remedy has been around for a bit, a few years. Talk a bit about the history of the company and why you founded it.
[00:04:24] Neka Pasquale: Well, my background is in health and wellness. I'm a licensed acupuncturist and herbalist. And so I had a private practice for about 10 years where I really incorporated food is healing philosophy in terms of preventing disease and being vibrantly healthy and really saw with my patients, the people that were willing to change their diet, especially if they came to me with a chronic health issue would get better so much faster. So I had people come to see me, for example, with type two diabetes on insulin, that were like, my doctor said, I can't get off insulin, and there's nothing I can do. And I was like, let's just change your diet, put them on a plant based low glycemic diet. And literally, sooner than one week, they were off insulin. And the doctors would be like, how did you do that? And what happened? And I mean, that's how rapidly you can heal your body. Our bodies are healing machines made to heal, but a lot of people think that they have to rely on pharmaceuticals or that their health isn't actually in their own hands when it is. So I'm really passionate about talking about the body's ability to heal and creating food that really nourishes people and helps people that maybe don't have the know-how or the time to create truly healing food.
[00:05:37] Ray Latif: Now, when I first encountered Urban Remedy, it was in 2015 at one of your stores in San Francisco. You have, or used to have a bunch of standalone retail stores in San Francisco. You had a pretty big direct consumer business as well. I think people who know Urban Remedy now might probably know you from your kiosks at Whole Foods. Talk a bit about what your retail and distribution presence looks like at this time.
[00:06:02] Neka Pasquale: So we've scaled down our stores, our storefronts, we have five or six now. And before we had a little under 20. But what we're really doing right now is really trying to laser focus on the Whole Foods channel. Because there's so much complexity with that we didn't realize the complexity we would have with forecasting and staying in stock. And so our biggest issue is really how do we stay in stock? And you might think it would be an easy thing, but it's really not. So we get complaints all the time, like I went to Whole Foods to grab a matcha bar or whatever, and you guys are out of stock again. So we're really trying to focus on how to do our Whole Foods channel the best that we can. And we do have an online presence. So you could go to Urban Remedy and we have I've created meal plans or you could order off the website and we send it directly to your doorstep.
[00:06:52] Ray Latif: The kiosks, how many kiosks do you have at this point?
[00:06:55] Neka Pasquale: How many Whole Foods are there in the country?
[00:06:57] Ray Latif: About 500.
[00:06:57] Neka Pasquale: So we're probably in 350, 375, something like that. And we're in other natural grocers as well. And we're in some conventional stores.
[00:07:07] Ray Latif: The kiosks are essentially end caps at Whole Foods? Yes. Yeah. And you mentioned you're elsewhere as well. What other retailers are you in at this point?
[00:07:15] Neka Pasquale: In California, we're in like Molly Stone's, we're in Woodland's, we're in Kroger, which was a really big win for us. Not all Kroger's, but we're in a bunch of Kroger's stores, and we're in a bunch of natural grocery stores.
[00:07:31] Ray Latif: My dream, as I mentioned, is to see Sun Squares everywhere. Yes. Natural, conventional, club, convenience, everywhere.
[00:07:37] Neka Pasquale: Me too.
[00:07:38] Ray Latif: I think saying that is one thing, getting there is another thing, especially, and I'm going to describe Urban Remedy this way, is an ultra premium, ultra fresh consumer brand. What is your scaling strategy? What is your growth strategy when you do have that sort of cachet?
[00:07:56] Neka Pasquale: Yeah, you know, it's been a journey because I didn't start Urban Remedy as a brand that I thought we were going to scale nationally. I really thought it was just going to be kind of a California niche brand. But it's kind of taken on a life of its own the last few years. So it's very exciting once we got into Whole Foods and had this opportunity to have these kiosks. And the biggest challenge is, you know, when I first started Urban Remedy, everything had a short shelf life, right? It's very hard to scale fresh. Nobody's really done it. And so we have this mission where we want to crack the code on fresh because that's the highest vibrational food that you can eat for your health. And so I still use fresh organic ingredients with our fresh snacking, including the sun squares. So the sun squares have a better shelf life. So those are more scalable. And I just created two new flavors and we just are moving from two squares to one. So it will be a dollar less. for the consumer. So we're hoping that that strategy is really going to work for us. So then we'll have three flavors, the platform will be three flavors, and it will be launching, you know, very soon. We have a coffee mushroom and a crunch that has cacao nibs and crispy rice. And then we're also, I developed two new cookie flavors. So we have a double chocolate and a oatmeal, and those are so delicious. The double chocolate is so good. And we're doing a single cookie that will, I can't remember exactly how much it's going to be, but it's going to be less than the bag of cookies that we have now. And then we're doing bite size and everything that we're trying to do now, we're trying to make more affordable. So we're doing like a sizing changes and a little bit of reformulation.
[00:09:29] Ray Latif: Certainly scalability is helped if you do have an affordable price point. If you do have a shelf life that is relatively in line with how inventory is carried at retail stores, what is the average shelf life for your products? Because I know it varies.
[00:09:47] Neka Pasquale: So our juices have about a 30 day shelf life. They're HPP'd. When I first started, I just did fresh juice and glass and I had a three day shelf life. So that was a big change for me. And everything's different. Like we have salads that have about a seven day shelf life. We try to reach a seven or eight day shelf life on the ultra fresh products. And then the sun square, the new sun squares, they have a three month shelf life.
[00:10:12] Ray Latif: 90 days?
[00:10:13] Neka Pasquale: Actually over 90 days, but I'm just going to say 90 days right now, but I think we're over a hundred days.
[00:10:19] Ray Latif: Between three months and a hundred days?
[00:10:21] Neka Pasquale: Yes.
[00:10:22] Ray Latif: Okay.
[00:10:22] Neka Pasquale: Yeah.
[00:10:23] Ray Latif: I can live with that.
[00:10:24] Neka Pasquale: That's way better than a seven day salad, right?
[00:10:28] Ray Latif: Yeah, I would say so. And the reason it's better than a seven day salad is because the seven day salad is probably not going to taste as good on the seventh day as it is on the first day, whereas the Sun Squirrel probably tastes great on the hundredth day as much as it would on the first, I would think anyway.
[00:10:41] Neka Pasquale: And it helps with food waste, right? The longer the shelf life, the less that we have to throw away. And we, you know, really do not like to have purge for two reasons. I mean, one, it costs money and two, This is beautiful, organic produce that we're using and we want people to eat it. We don't want to have to throw it out, but we do donate anything we throw away from the stores or anything. We actually do donate to homeless shelters and food projects. Yeah. And our cookies we're testing right now, but we think the cookies are going to have potentially a seven to eight months shelf life.
[00:11:13] Ray Latif: You sell a pretty wide variety of products. You have, as you mentioned, salads, you have snacks, you have cookies, beverages. I think some folks might look at that and say, well, why not just focus on one or two product lines, especially if you do want to be that half a sort of scale driver, a couple of scale drivers for your brand. Why is it important to have a broad variety of products?
[00:11:37] Neka Pasquale: Well, I ask myself that question sometimes.
[00:11:39] Ray Latif: I'm sure you and Paul, Paul Coletta, the CEO of Urban Remedy.
[00:11:42] Neka Pasquale: Because sometimes I go, I mean, I love making all of this food and doing the day parts and really being able to offer the customer all the day parts. So we do the thinking for you, you can get breakfast, lunch, and dinner. And that's how I started Urban Remedy. you know, sometimes I do say to myself, God, if I was just doing sun squares and bars, which have a longer shelf life, they're so delicious, and they're very differentiated, it would be so much easier. And there's so much complexity. You know, we have a lot of SKUs. And you can imagine the complexity of a sun square versus a fresh salad versus a juice versus a nut milk versus a protein shake versus a shot. I mean, we do so much. And so it will be interesting to see our evolution over the next five years and how we, you know, we're really lucky that we have these Whole Foods kiosks, right? People would die to get an end cap and Whole Foods with just your branded product. But in order to do that, we have to have all of our SKUs, right? Because you couldn't get a whole end cap with like two SKUs or six SKUs. So it's a blessing that we have this opportunity. And then you know, we're figuring out how to be successful with our stocking and our forecasting, you know, as we've grown very, very fast in the Whole Foods channel.
[00:12:53] Ray Latif: Well, quick tangent, how did you get into Whole Foods with kiosks?
[00:12:57] Neka Pasquale: We were very lucky to have a partnership with Whole Foods and they were an investor in Urban Remedy and really had a great relationship with them and they loved the brand. And it was something that they were looking for in their stores to bring like the certified organic grab and go meals and shakes. And it was kind of a miracle when it happened. I couldn't even believe it. When Paul and I were first talking about it, I was like, there is no way we're going to get that. And when it actually happened, I was very happily surprised.
[00:13:25] Ray Latif: There's a lot of preparation that has to go into something like that, though. I mean, if you just flip the switch on 300 stores, when you're a maker of ultra fresh products, what's the forecasting strategy for something like that? And how do you plan to meet the needs? And then also, you know, unfortunately, there's probably gonna be a lot of waste as well.
[00:13:42] Neka Pasquale: Yeah, we're honestly still figuring it out. We work with a couple partners that try to help us with forecasting. And then delivery and how we get the product to Whole Foods, it's different in different regions. But we've been learning as we've been going and we've made, you know, some mistakes. And we're still really trying to crack the code on, like you said, lowering waste, but having products stocked on the shelves all the time. And sometimes Paul and I will go into, Paul just sent me a video, he walked into the Whole Foods in Mill Valley, and he went in the back because it was empty, grabbed the Urban Remedy product, rolled it out and stocked the kiosk himself. And so that's really our biggest problem is keeping the kiosk stocked.
[00:14:23] Ray Latif: I bring up Paul because the last time he and I spoke, I visited your office in the Bay Area, I'm forgetting the exact town. Richmond. Richmond. And he and I were talking about doing an interview for Taste Radio about this concept of plant-based 3.0. You know, we've had a few iterations of that term and the way consumers perceive plant-based. And you're an entirely plant-based company, if I'm not mistaken.
[00:14:50] Neka Pasquale: So we have, I, when I started her remedy, it was completely vegan. It's funny. It's not funny, but. We're vegan, but we do sell a side of organic free range chicken because we found that people really wanted, like they're eating our bowls and salad. And there was a huge portion of our customers that really wanted to add the protein. So if you go to Urban Remedy, everything is vegan except our side of protein.
[00:15:17] Ray Latif: Okay. But when you talk to your customers and potential customers about what you do, I think a lot of it is centered around and focused on plant-based.
[00:15:28] Neka Pasquale: Yes. And I think they're now I was just talking to Dr. Lustig and we were saying, yeah, you know, plant based could be an Oreo at this point or Wonder Bread, you know, so plant based does not equate with healthy anymore. And so we've been really thinking about how do we communicate what we're doing and how it's different than maybe like Impossible Burger or something like that? Because, you know, my focus is food that lowers inflammation, food that is real and as unprocessed as possible. And so I feel like we're pretty differentiated from a lot of like, quote, plant-based companies.
[00:16:09] Ray Latif: That being said, do you feel like there's a re-education for new consumers about what it is, what plant-based actually means to you? Because again, that new consumer might consider Impossible Foods to be that plant-based and what this overly processed thing might have. might be made from vegetable based ingredients, but I wouldn't call it plant based.
[00:16:32] Neka Pasquale: Yeah, I mean, I feel that I, you know, no disrespect to people that are doing plant based meat, but I would not eat those ultra processed plant based meats if you paid me because they are highly processed and most of them use seed oil like texturized wheat, canola oil. I mean, in my perspective, that's like a toxic sludge. And the other thing I don't like about it is you know, they're really kind of supporting the industrialized farming system, you know, with things like corn and soy and hydrolyzed yeast. And I really pride ourselves on being certified organic and working with companies, some companies that are regenerative, because we're really trying to heal people on the planet. So really thinking about soil health and supporting farming that is really going to heal our soil because one of our huge problems is the degradation of the soil. And, you know, with these monocrops, we're really in a bad situation and it can be changed through farming, regeneratively and organic. And so that's another really important piece that we stand for.
[00:17:45] Ray Latif: Someone might argue, though, that the Impossible Foods customers and Urban Remedy customers are sort of similar, or maybe they are the same customer. And I think that probably presents a challenge for you in that you want to be disassociated with a brand like that, or you don't want to be associated with a brand like that. And yet, that customer still is very much that target consumer for you. How do you reconcile that?
[00:18:16] Neka Pasquale: For me, you know, I'm a healthcare practitioner first. So I'm coming in with that lens, right, which is way different, maybe than somebody that's coming in with like more of a business lens. And so I'm looking at the health benefits of food. And so, you know, I just was on a panel at a vegan food festival. And we were talking about this and I just was very honest about my feeling about it. And just that I didn't think it was healthy and it was not something that I would eat. And people, so there was a couple of people there that were really pissed, which I totally get. And I think people should be able to eat whatever they want. If you want to eat an Impossible Burger, and you love it, like great for you. But if you're coming to me as a healthcare practitioner and telling me you don't feel good, or how do you improve your health? I'm not going to recommend eating that. And so I just try to be real and give my real opinion. But I think there's a lot of people that probably love Impossible Burger or, you know, Beyond Meat and eating those things. And a lot of people are really passionate about factory farming and the horrific ways that the animals are treated, which I absolutely agree with. But for me, the root isn't eating ultra processed food. For me, it's like either don't eat meat. You can make a veggie burger out of Whole Foods, or if you are going to eat meat, make sure you're eating grass fed pastures, animals that are treated way better than any industrialized farming.
[00:19:48] Ray Latif: A term we heard a lot today was accessibility.
[00:19:50] Neka Pasquale: Yeah.
[00:19:51] Ray Latif: And some folks just will not have access for one reason or another to the kinds of foods that you were just talking about. Yeah. I would think that as the founder of Urban Remedy, you would want everyone to have access to your foods. How do you talk to retailers about how to merchandise your food? And I'm not talking about Whole Foods. I'm talking about the Kroger buyers and folks like that. For that Kroger buyer who's like, look, we have your sun squares in our refrigerated snack space. You know, how do we teach people, how do we teach our customers to buy your products, understand what you're selling?
[00:20:26] Neka Pasquale: Yeah. I mean, it's a big challenge. And I would love more than anything to have Urban Remedy be accessible to everybody. And it's something we talk about a lot. And I think it's really part of the bigger system of farming and agriculture and big ag and the monocrops and the subsidies that are happening that makes organic more expensive. And so I try to look at it on the larger level, like how can we make bigger changes by supporting people that are regenerative and organic and helping turn over farmland that is conventional into organic because It's better for the planet and better for farmers. Getting the cost down for organic is, it's a bigger issue. But for me, I only want to offer Whole Foods that are certified organic because it's that level of nutrition and quality.
[00:21:23] Ray Latif: So communicating certified organic and regenerative farming to that consumer is your approach.
[00:21:28] Neka Pasquale: Yeah, that's part of it. And the health benefits of the food.
[00:21:31] Ray Latif: Can I tell you what my approach would be?
[00:21:32] Neka Pasquale: Yeah, tell me.
[00:21:33] Ray Latif: Try the products.
[00:21:34] Neka Pasquale: I like that.
[00:21:35] Ray Latif: It's really good. Sampling. Sampling. Because I think when people try your product, they are just blown away by it. And I think that's true with nearly every one of your products. And, you know, sampling is a huge part of educating consumers about a particular brand or product. It's very expensive though. Yeah. And you have a great investor partner in Manitore. And I know they want to see you grow quickly, but patience is a virtue. And, you know, you've gotten to this place by being patient. How do you talk to your investors about the long-term strategy, your long-term strategy for Urban Remedy versus what they might see as the path for the brand?
[00:22:13] Neka Pasquale: That has probably been one of the bigger challenges since I started Urban Remedy. When I started, you know, I was in a place where somebody came to me. I was doing juice before most of the juice companies were doing it. So it was really new and interesting. And I had a small firm in LA contact me and they said, we want to give you a million dollars. And it was literally a phone call. And at that point, you know, I was getting divorced and I wanted to move and I had a new baby and I was like a million dollars. Oh, my God, like, I'm gonna build out a new facility. And like, I just thought it was like the end all be all. And I built out my facility. And within six months after it took so long to build it out, we outgrew that facility. And that investor was really pushing online. And they were experts in online customer acquisition. So they were just like from their side, just pushing so many customers to us. And I was like, I don't even know what like what kind of bottle I'm using. And we grew like 100% every year those first few years. And so it has been really crazy. And, you know, we just the last couple years have really gotten more into our groove where, you know, we have all the people in place and we have our foundation created. But you know, when you take investment from investors, and we've taken quite a bit of investment, you know, every investor has their wants from the company and what they want to see happen. And, you know, most of the time they want it to happen quicker. And, you know, I didn't start Urban Remedy to make millions of dollars. And, you know, I didn't have a business plan. And so Urban Remedy has kind of taken me on a journey. So luckily, most of our investors are into investing in companies that are doing good things in the world. And so there's that alignment, which has been real, I'm really grateful for. And like any investors that come in that can help us grow and reach more people, I'm very excited about. And so I don't have this huge expectation of like, a huge exit, for example, not to say that I wouldn't love that to happen one day, but that is not my reasoning for starting Urban Remedy. And you know, sometimes it's difficult with investors, because there'll be different people on the board that, you know, want to do different things with the company. And it can be really challenging.
[00:24:18] Ray Latif: Well, sometimes the investors have their own investors. They have limited partners, shareholders, etc. And they answer to those folks. If they promised a certain rate of return, maybe that means that they've got to sell or they've got to hope that Urban Remedy will sell for hundreds of millions of dollars.
[00:24:32] Neka Pasquale: That is true.
[00:24:33] Ray Latif: It's helpful when you're on this journey to have a partner, and I mentioned Paul. And it was a number of years ago when he took the reins as CEO, at least the day-to-day reins as CEO. And was that something that you were advocating for, or is that just something that you and your team felt it was the right time, it was the right move to bring in someone who could manage that day-to-day? And if so, how do you get comfortable with someone who is from outside the organization? How do you get on the same wavelength? And I know you're going to butt heads sometimes, but how do you make it work cohesively?
[00:25:08] Neka Pasquale: That's a really interesting story. So I had met with the guy from Popchips, Keith Belling, and he was like, you have to meet my friend, Paul Coletta. You guys are both Italian. You know, you guys, I think he'll really like your product.
[00:25:24] Ray Latif: That's what he led with? You're both Italian?
[00:25:26] SPEAKER_??: Okay.
[00:25:26] Neka Pasquale: So, I went to Paul's office and he was working at the grilled cheese place, The Melt. And I walked in and it was like the fanciest office and I had just built out my place and I had like a really, really, you know, not a very nice office. And I walked in like, Oh my god, I'm like, this is just like posh. And I was like, what is going on here? And I'm like, grilled cheese, like, they raise so much money for grilled cheese. And so I kind of left like, what was that about? And then a couple days later, I had my one storefront in San Rafael worth with my kitchen in the back. Paul showed up and he started eating the product. He's like, Oh, this is really good. He started drinking the juice. He's like, this is really good. I was like, Oh, thanks for coming. You know, stopping by, not even thinking about anything about CEO. I was CEO obviously then, then a couple of days later, he shows up again. And Oh my God, I like this. Do you want to go have a tea? And then we would have a tea. So this went on for like a month. And then one day we were sitting having a tea. And I was still trying to figure him out. I was like, I don't know what's going on with this guy. And he was like, you know what he goes, I think I'd really like to be your CEO. Like I really believe in what you're doing and the product is so great. And he had come to my office and it was like a shell. I mean, we were literally at fold up tables. I was like breastfeeding my son while I was working on the computer. I mean, it was a scene. You know, it was kind of a shit show. And he's like, I just I want to be part of this. I love it. And so I talked to my investors and thought about it. And I just raised a little bit more money. So we could hire a CEO. And realistically, I hated being a CEO, because I'm a very creative person. I like to, you know, make the product and talk about health and wellness. And I was finding myself you know, trying to manage a board meeting, and I have no background in business. So I'd be sitting at a meeting, and they would be like, what's the KPI of you know, whatever. And I would in the beginning, I literally had to Google what is KPI, because you wouldn't be the first one, though. I felt like such an asshole. And then I don't speak that language. And so I would sit in there and just trying to understand everything. It's like, I want to know the bottom line and what's happening. I do have a business mind, but all those details and stuff is not my my thing. And so I made it really clear, like, you know, when we were talking about it, if you want to come on and see, oh, this is, you know, my vision. And if you are in alignment with, you know what I'm doing, because we're a very, we had a very small team, but very values aligned. And he was like, I'm really aligned. I promise you, Nika, that I will, you know, always honor your vision and work with you as a partner. And I trusted him. And so he's been working with us for eight years. And we have had three fights in eight years. And we don't really fight that much. And he really I'm so lucky because he really values my opinion. And You know, I make all the decisions related to creative, obviously product, you know, most of the marketing stuff. And we're, we're a good team because he does all of those things that I, I don't really like to do. And so we're very different. We're like yin and yang. I'm really like fast moving and let's go. And he's very thoughtful and takes his time with things. So I feel like we balance each other out.
[00:28:31] Ray Latif: He bought into your vision.
[00:28:32] Neka Pasquale: Yes.
[00:28:33] Ray Latif: The execution of that vision has changed a bit over the years. I recall when I spoke with him in 2015, there was a lot of focus on e-commerce and direct-to-consumer. I think he described the storefronts as 3D billboards for your online business. Obviously that has changed. How do you stay flexible in your approach, in your business strategy?
[00:28:59] Neka Pasquale: You know, flexibility has been what has guided me along my journey with Urban Remedy because When I started Urban Remedy, you know, I was like, I'm just doing this for like weird hippies like me that want to just like eat ultra healthy food, you know. And so it was really surprising to me how popular we became and how fast we grew. So Urban Remedy has taken me on a journey. So all of a sudden, you know, we're shipping nationally or we're doing this, I try to go with the flow because I feel like Urban Remedy is like its own thing. So I always try to stay flexible because I've found that As soon as you hold on to something too tight, and aren't willing to look at the ways that change is good, you kind of block the energy of the company. So I'm always trying to have an open mind without compromising my values. Like if somebody said, Oh, well, we can, you know, use non organic, and you can, like, increase your margin by a certain percentage, you know, which would be true, that would be against our values. So that would be something that we wouldn't do. But in terms of like going into different channels or like launching a Sun Square, which is much different than a green juice. I love that. That's exciting to me because I love to develop new products. And you know, those are kind of challenges and it keeps it interesting and it stays with the integrity of the brand.
[00:30:16] Ray Latif: Have your investors been okay with that kind of flexibility? I mean, it sounds like you are very much open to change as a way to continuous improvement. But I think that sometimes I can throw investors for a loop. One year you're doing one thing and the next year you're doing something completely different. They're like, what's going on here?
[00:30:32] Neka Pasquale: Yes. I mean, we do have like one person maybe on the board who, you know, is like, Nika, you know, stay focused or like, you know, make sure you do a platform and, you know, make three of, you know, the things. And it's been helpful. Like that feedback has been helpful. I'm like, oh yeah. Maybe I didn't think that maybe I shouldn't do one cookie. Maybe if I'm going to do it, I need to do like the three flavors. So there's been a lot of things like that. So I try to work within those boundaries, you know, and it's like a branding thing. Like before we didn't even have organic bold on the bottles. And so we were like, we don't know if another foods organic. So there's been a lot of changes and iteration on packaging and like how we do things and calling certain SKUs. And I mean, cause at one point we had, you know, like I think 130 SKUs or something like that. And they're all my favorite, you know, and I love all of them. So that's been a difficult thing for me, you know, culling certain products, but you have to do it if it's a low performer and then you have the opportunity to do something else.
[00:31:29] Ray Latif: It also helps give you a good foundation for your best sellers and knowing what is going to actually sell and you can build from there. When you are ideating and thinking about new product development, how much do you take into account consumers or customers' wants and desires versus what you think is right for the brand?
[00:31:50] Neka Pasquale: Honestly?
[00:31:51] Ray Latif: That's what I'm here for.
[00:31:52] Neka Pasquale: Sorry, honestly, I get really irritated when, like, somebody that works in marketing will say, Nika, oh, everybody else is using this product. You should make something with it. I always make stuff based on what I think is good, but what I think is good for people. And so I like to do it that way, if that makes sense. I hate following a trend. Like if a bunch of other people are doing something, I'm like, I don't want to do what they're doing. I want to like do what Urban Remedy does. You know what I mean? And so I'm not, and a lot of the marketing people are like, Oh, everybody, you know, you should do blah, blah, blah. You know, you should do Oshwagandha or you should do whatever it is. And I would be like, Oh yeah, maybe I would do Oshwagandha, but I don't want to copy people. I like the creativity just to come out of my own ideation. And I might be inspired by something, another brand that's doing something really well and be like, wow, that's so cool. Like I want to do something like that, but Urban Remedy style.
[00:32:52] Ray Latif: Adriana Tolman, who's the managing director with Manitree, was moderating your panel discussion on stage, and she asked an interesting question to you and the other panelists about healthy versus delicious. If you had to choose one, what would you want Urban Remedy to be known for? And I'm going to preface this by saying, I'm pretty sure the consumer would want you to be known for delicious, but you tell me.
[00:33:15] Neka Pasquale: I hate that question because I only do healthy. I mean, there could be healthy indulgence, but you're never going to have like white sugar or seed oils or any of that stuff in it. So a delicious for sure. That's not a fair question. I was like, they're both important. Yeah, because that's really what we stand for. So but delicious, like I'm not going to launch anything that we don't think is delicious.
[00:33:42] Ray Latif: How do you market delicious on front of pack though? Cause that is really important.
[00:33:47] Neka Pasquale: So Paul has a thing where he said, be it, don't say it. But the last couple of years I've been like, I feel like we need to say it more because people need to know that this tastes good. And so we're trying to do more of that. If you have some suggestions, I'm happy to hear.
[00:34:02] Ray Latif: You know, I think that's the, literally the million dollar question, right? I mean, you would probably pay someone a million dollars to figure out how to best market your brand so that you can sell $10 million worth of products.
[00:34:13] Neka Pasquale: But you said sampling. Sampling is something that we're trying to do more of because when we sample product, we sell so much more of it. So I do, that's, you know, something that we are going to be doing more of.
[00:34:22] Ray Latif: Yeah. I mean, demos are a proven way to get liquid to lips or food to gums. But again, it is expensive and it is something that takes a lot of effort. You have to be, if you're in 300 Whole Foods stores, you're sampling in 300 Whole Foods stores and you've got to make sure that the people who are doing the demos have a consistent message and are communicating what you want them to say. All that being said, going back to my original point of, you know, this opportunity to scale the brand, one of the reasons Mandatory, I'm sure, invested in Urban Remedy is because they saw scaling potential. Is there a timeline? I mean, do you have a sort of a goal in terms of being in a certain number of stores, even with a couple SKUs? I mean, is there a plan that you're trying to stick to or is it very much, let's build this, you know, one brick at a time and see where it takes us?
[00:35:11] Neka Pasquale: Our plan right now is to scale what we currently have with Whole Foods and do it laser focused, you know, get everything stocked the way it needs to be stocked, do sampling, you know, because we already have this amazing opportunity in front of us. And we just, you know, we've been doing so many things. So right now we're just really focused on that. And then our new fresh snacking platforms, we're really excited to get that into, you know, places like Kroger or maybe club or target, you know, that would be a huge win for us.
[00:35:44] Ray Latif: Nika, it's been so great speaking with you. I really appreciate the time and I appreciate how candid you are. I think sometimes when folks are being interviewed, there's a certain amount of guardedness because I guess they're concerned about what the community might think of what they say if they're being candid. But it's important to be honest with yourself and be honest with the community because transparency is everything.
[00:36:08] Neka Pasquale: Yeah. And I'm sorry if I offended anybody about the thing, but that's my honest, I mean... No, it's again, it's important that people know who you are and what you stand for.
[00:36:18] Ray Latif: Because if they sense that you're hiding something, if they sense that you're being a little...
[00:36:22] Neka Pasquale: Fake?
[00:36:23] Ray Latif: fake, essentially. Inauthentic. Inauthentic about what you're doing. I think they are going to put their guards up.
[00:36:29] Neka Pasquale: Yeah.
[00:36:30] Ray Latif: And they're going to be wondering, why is this person trying to hide something from me? Yeah. And then start to wonder about your brand. Why? What is this brand hiding from me? So that's just my little.
[00:36:38] Neka Pasquale: Yeah. No, thank you.
[00:36:38] Ray Latif: Standing on a soapbox for our audience over here.
[00:36:40] Neka Pasquale: I am very opinionated when it comes to food and health. And really my goal is to empower people to really be healthy. And so I definitely have a strong point of view that might be a little more radical than most people.
[00:36:55] Ray Latif: You only said asshole once and I just said it now too. So we'll have to put that checkbox on Apple podcast so people know this is an explicit episode of Taste Radio. Yeah. No, in all seriousness, thanks so much for taking the time.
[00:37:05] Neka Pasquale: Yeah. Thank you so much. That was fun.
[00:37:09] Ray Latif: That brings us to the end of this episode of Taste Radio. Thank you so much for listening, and thanks to our guest, Neka Pasquale. Our audio engineer for Taste Radio is Joe Cracci, our technical director is Joshua Pratt, and our video editor is Ryan Galang. As always, for questions, comments, ideas for future podcasts, please send us an email to ask at Taste Radio. On behalf of the entire Taste Radio team, thank you for listening, and we'll talk to you next time.
