[00:00:10] Ray Latif: Hello, and thank you for tuning in to Taste Radio, the number one podcast for the food and beverage industry. I'm Ray Latif, the editor and producer of Taste Radio, and I'm with my co-host for this episode, John Craven, Jacqui Brugliera, and Mike Schneider. This episode features an interview with Honest Tea and Eat The Change co-founder Seth Goldman. One that continues upon a series in which we sit down with veteran entrepreneurs for conversations about what they've learned along their journeys. Exclusive opportunities and the freshest swag. It's everything that comes with being a Taste Radio VIP, and it's easy for you to join that group of very important people. Head to Taste Radio slash VIP to sign up. And VIPers who have already joined the club, welcome. Mike Schneider, you're meeting some interesting folks from the club.
[00:01:05] John Craven: He filled out the form himself. You know what Mike requested? Mike requested a Taste Radio tattoo on his back. How big? On the back of my neck.
[00:01:14] Ray Latif: Yeah, just do you Eat The old-school one where it's like the across your back or just one?
[00:01:19] Jacqui Brugliera: I didn't even think that I was just thinking of a little one on the back of my neck But I think I think full back tat is what you want to go Slayer.
[00:01:25] Ray Latif: Oh, yeah, you know, you know Slayer Slayer fans. They have that neck tattoo on the back Yeah, that's what I want. You know, you're a true Slayer fan or a Taste Radio VIP, right? Taste Radio VIP once again, if you want to join the VIP group head to Taste Radio.com Slash VIP easy as that As we discussed last episode, we're very excited to hold our April meetup Eat The Newton headquarters, BevNET headquarters in Newton, Massachusetts. That is once again, April 13th from 5 to 8 PM, encouraging all folks from the area and those who are visiting the Boston region. To come out and visit, if you're an entrepreneur, please bring your own samples. Everyone wants to taste. There's a form on our BevNET and Notch websites. Just head to either to RSVP. We want to know if you're coming so that we can decide how many chicken wings to bring. RSVP rhymes with free. Okay, RSVP rhymes with free. Yes, we are having chicken wings, aren't we, John Craven?
[00:02:24] John Craven: I heard empanadas.
[00:02:26] Mike Schneider: Wow.
[00:02:27] Jacqui Brugliera: That's not even a joke. Jackie just booked her ticket. Epic empanada place nearby. Hopefully it's that one. Hopefully. Speaking of epic, summer, New York City.
[00:02:39] Ray Latif: It's right around the corner, Ray. BevNET Live Summer 2023 in the Big Apple. Exciting stuff for sure. Some new speakers that we've announced to the roster. Jacqui Brugliera, you have the deets. Who's coming?
[00:02:53] Mike Schneider: I do have the deets. We have two executives from some of the fastest growing beverage brands coming to BevNetLive. We have Trisha Wallwerk, which is the chair and CEO of Milo's Tea Company. And then we also have Kyle Thomas, the CRO from Nutribull, which is the parent company of C4. We also announced that Mike Curban, longtime beverage veteran from VitaCoco will be taking the stage to talk about his entrepreneurial journey. And then we also have two executives from Whole Foods that will give the retail perspective on the beverage industry. So check it out. It will be this June, June 14th and 15th in New York City. We hope to see you there. There will be great networking, lots of beverage products to sample, and we will also have the New Beverage Showdown return to the stage.
[00:03:43] John Craven: What number New Beverage Showdown are we on? 4,206. I've lost count.
[00:03:49] Jacqui Brugliera: 24. 24. Yeah, good times. And don't forget the most important thing. It's easy to sign up at BevNetLive.com.
[00:03:57] John Craven: Early registration ends May 5th. Do I have a detail correct?
[00:04:01] Mike Schneider: You do have that in your calendar.
[00:04:05] Ray Latif: And what do you get with early registration, Jackie?
[00:04:07] Mike Schneider: You save $100 per registration. And on Top Of that, if you are an insider, you can also add your additional $100 discount on registration. So you could save $200 right now. Keep stacking.
[00:04:20] John Craven: Well you guys got to go to Bevanette live in New York last year. We did yeah. I did actually you know oddly enough I was I watched it in this little room that we're in right now. You were in here? I was in here. Don't worry I like sanitized it and all that stuff. This is my my COVID quarantining area but no I'm excited to get back to New York City for BevNET Live. It's been since pre-COVID for me. And yeah, always love the energy of New York City in June. And we've got the folks from NIDA, the Northeast... Independent. Independent. Thank you. Distributors Association. I always just think of it as NIDA now. I don't know, it's been too long. But yeah, like, I mean, all the key DSD beverage distributors are gonna be there. Lots of good stuff. Maybe some trips to some cool cocktail bars?
[00:05:12] Ray Latif: I think you could make that happen. And perhaps if you're a Taste Radio VIP, you can come on along. There you go. I will buy you a Negroni.
[00:05:19] John Craven: Ooh! Okay, wow. How do we put like a little star on that, where it's like, limit two people or something like that? Wait a minute Wow like a darn good idea I mean this is like standard standard offer the disclaimer is like no one who's currently Previously ever thought about being employed by Bev net like the offers not valid in New Jersey, too Maybe I don't know but one new customer.
[00:05:46] Ray Latif: Yeah, I If not a Negroni, perhaps you can have a glass or Top Of Zinfandel. Gotta be a little careful with that though, because sometimes more than one glass of wine can leave you a little drowsy the next day.
[00:05:58] John Craven: This is also why you bring like 14 blue shirts to BevNET Live. Exactly, exactly. Too much Zinfandel.
[00:06:04] Ray Latif: And a lot of the plug and a lot of cognizant because if I am a little tipsy Little drowsy you know a little cognizant to get myself going. I'm on stage. You know the next day I gotta be bright and efficient and sharp for the audience. Yeah, are you suggesting that people mix cognizant with alcohol? I'm saying the night The Mornin after
[00:06:24] John Craven: I don't know, does our sponsor listen to this? I guess we'll find out.
[00:06:29] Ray Latif: Well, let's give a shout out to our sponsor for this episode. That is Cognizant. Cognizant is a clinically tested nootropic ingredient that delivers a patented form of citric choline to supply your brain and those of your consumers with the energy it needs to stay sharp. Learn more at cognizant.com. That's C-O-G-N-I-Z-I-N.com.
[00:06:51] Jacqui Brugliera: I don't know if you noticed, Trey, but I had some before the show.
[00:06:54] Ray Latif: I did. You haven't flubbed a line yet.
[00:06:56] John Craven: You're extra sharp today.
[00:06:57] Ray Latif: So sharp. Yeah. John Craven might be flubbing some lines in the next couple of minutes because I might be triggering him with the next two subjects.
[00:07:07] John Craven: You know, this whole lead up here, you're like, I'm going to trigger you. What is this going to be?
[00:07:12] Ray Latif: I apologize in advance. This is a trigger warning specifically for John Craven and only for John Craven.
[00:07:17] John Craven: I'm expecting something really good here. I'll just tell you Eat The topics are.
[00:07:20] Ray Latif: It's soccer. Blue beverages okay now. I know this is something we talked about last week blue beverages kind of ruffle your feathers Is this a prime?
[00:07:32] Jacqui Brugliera: This is about I'm not about Millwall supporter Nottingham Forest was your team to win.
[00:07:42] Mike Schneider: They have dead to me Tickets to the Manchester United and Wrexham game Are you going right?
[00:07:51] Ray Latif: I I hope to go if there's tickets available You should definitely go to that. I should definitely go. Anywho, yesterday, the United States men's soccer team played El Salvador and they won one to nil. And after the game, the U.S. men's team's goalkeeper, Matt Turner, who also plays for Arsenal, He did a Gender Reveal. They did a Gender Reveal. They gave him a tiny soccer ball. Football. Exactly. So he had this tiny soccer ball and he punted it. And when he did, it exploded and out came all this pink dust. Pink dust.
[00:08:25] Taste Radio: Okay. That's a girl.
[00:08:26] Ray Latif: Exactly. That shows that apparently they're having a girl.
[00:08:29] Jacqui Brugliera: Congratulations, Matt Turner. Ya gooner.
[00:08:32] Ray Latif: Now, when he did this and when all the pink dust came all over the place, his teammates rushed him. And when they did, they all started coughing and wheezing and like rubbing their eyes. And I'm like, what a ridiculous idea. People got to stop doing these Gender Reveal things that actually end up in injury or illness. Like this has to stop. So I figured, okay, there's got to be a better way to do this. How about a champagne-like Toast or Gender Reveal in which you're holding the champagne you pop the cork and out comes either blue or pink liquid Okay, this is a new brand idea now. I know that Jackie looks at is looking at me like I'm crazy But I think I think this could actually be an idea. I
[00:09:14] Jacqui Brugliera: I think that was just Jackie's resting ray face.
[00:09:18] Ray Latif: Resting ray face. So again, I know blue beverages, they sound disgusting, but it's an alternative to getting pink dust or blue dust into your lungs. What do you think? Sure. Okay.
[00:09:30] John Craven: It seems like a really niche idea. And also like that probably exists. I don't know.
[00:09:36] Ray Latif: I'm gonna go with someone has tried this Gender Reveal gotta be done already Maybe but I'm saying Eat The cork when the cork pops the only danger is if someone's standing too close You might get it right in the eyeball which is not Eat Good thing It's not good, but it's better than the alternative the other the other Gender Reveal. I've seen or would take people take like a Pinata and they start whacking the yard and the periodic loads, and there's like you know blue candy or pink candy all over the place Like cake slice, you know I feel traditional no one gets hurt or if there's some people in California that started like a legit forest fire I Agree, but if we're gonna do them. Let's you know let's improve upon the ways.
[00:10:23] John Craven: They're being done
[00:10:23] Ray Latif: You could also just go on down to 7-Eleven and buy like an energy drink and you know Here's my point here when it comes to Gender Reveal I always thought this thing was a bad idea to begin with and I thought it would eventually just go away Okay, but it hasn't it's been around for years now, and I'm wondering if this is Can we call this a fad if it's not a fad anymore because people put that fire for years, right? Gen Z is gonna take a fad. What does a fad mean? What does a fad mean something that's sort of limited in the length of its relevancy, right? I think so sure The point I'm trying to make with fads is that I think particularly when it comes to food and beverage is a lot of fads out there obviously obviously and There's a lot of fads that live within a particular trend, but how do you differentiate between the two? How do you know as an entrepreneur if you're just building upon a fad versus a trend? Then I think about something like skinny girls cocktails right I feel like that also whole thing was very much a fad. It was like, here you can have some great margaritas that are going to be 100 calories per serving. Yes, they won't taste that great, but it's, I don't know, it's an alternative to having... There were some pretty big exits in that, though.
[00:11:33] Jacqui Brugliera: There were. That's called someone capitalized on a trend. I mean, there's a window of opportunity for any trend. A lot of entrepreneurs are good at spotting a trend, getting in, making the money, and getting out. That's what you, I mean, that's the secret of investment, isn't it?
[00:11:49] John Craven: I mean, look, I'll give you a more positive spin on this for food and beverage, which is that obviously most food and beverage products outside of like the, you know, the Cokes, the Pepsis, the, I don't know, Rice Krispies, these sort of legacy brands, you know, some things they just don't last forever. And, you know, there are different sort of trends that go on Top Of these different categories, which, you know, I wouldn't call it a fad for something to, I don't know, last half a decade with some level of success. You know, I think it's the, The stuff you want to avoid or the things that are like, I don't know, a thing that maybe is trending on TikTok this week that is fun and, you know, has some meme thing going for it or whatever that probably isn't viable after that. And there are a lot of products that fit into both camps.
[00:12:44] Mike Schneider: Also a trend or a fad, it can be hot and then still survive afterwards with like a core set of consumers. Like keto was really hot and people were really buying into that. And there's still a bunch of people that still subscribe to the keto diet, or I still go and order a skinny margarita at my local cantina, but it might not be the hot thing right now that everyone's talking about, but it still exists in the world in some way.
[00:13:11] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah, it might have staying power like teeny tiny pancakes.
[00:13:14] Ray Latif: Yeah, I think the point I'm trying to make is Eat The thing that might be interesting on a social media platform, unless it actually does have staying power, it should be something that I think entrepreneurs should probably stay away from is the point I'm trying to make. Even if it exists within a larger trend, like better for you alcohol or lower sugar food. You know, I think the thing is, I don't know, you just have to be careful of attaching yourself too deeply to the flavor of the moment.
[00:13:44] Jacqui Brugliera: That's why this is such a hard business because you see, you see brands pop up and they try to form a category together and it looks like there's critical mass in said category. You hear about it, you know, you read about them on BevNET, you see a little groundswell happening, but the proof is in the consumer pudding, so to speak. Keto pudding. Yummy.
[00:14:05] Mike Schneider: It's all about timing, something might pop up on TikTok and then die out and then circle back, you know, in a couple years, because consumers are starting to be educated on the product or they want it. So it's all about timing.
[00:14:19] John Craven: Well, in a lot of cases, like I think the other issue with timing is if there's a trend and you want to go after it, like, How long is it going to take you to make the product in the first place and get it out there? And I think those things like a lot of times just don't line up for CPG companies, which, yeah, I mean, to what Ray is saying, it's like trying to innovate on things that people already understand is probably easier than just chasing whatever the totally shiny object is, especially, you know, the cost of, education will be lower too.
[00:14:54] Ray Latif: Yeah. I was having a conversation with an entrepreneur yesterday that's sort of tangential to this topic. And what we were talking about is what attracts early stage investors, what attracts angel and seed investors. And a lot of times it's really about potential. Do these angel investors see the long-term potential, the broad opportunity for a particular brand or product? And if they don't, they're not going to invest. And if it's, again, something that they perceive to be a fad, they're probably going to stay away from it because there isn't going to be that huge or that significant ROI for their investment. All right, for the second straight week, John Craven, you have a bunch of canned beverages here. Two Tallboys. Do people still call these 16-ounce and 20-ounce cans Tallboys? No, Ray. No? Just you. Ray, of course they do. What was it? What was the movie I saw? It was that Boss movie. Gone Baby Gone. Oh, yeah, gone, baby gone where the guy was in a bar, and he ordered three shots of Cuddy and a tall boy Mm-hmm, maybe if you're in a bar in Boston you kill those things you still call things tall tall boys a wicked tall boy I don't think you reference a can of water as a tall boy though ray no I don't know we should go next door and talk to uh let's just start calling them tall boys Bill Creelman and the team at Spindr if they have 16 ounce cans I wonder if we'll call them tall boys No all right anyway, so you got some weird water literally. It's called weird water weird.
[00:16:19] John Craven: What is this?
[00:16:21] Ray Latif: Yeah, it's Drink Weird. Oh wait a minute.
[00:16:23] John Craven: We talked about this brand a couple weeks ago Yeah, I was just getting some water to drink for this thing Happens to be here. They have an energy line, and they have just still water line a tea line and a yerba mate line Okay, and and a still in a sparkling water which is called weird water. It's a striking looking can is an octopus on there and You know what I like about this aside from it's water and quenching my thirst while recording this nonsense Is you know this sort of feels like the polar opposite of branding from like Liquid Death? Which I don't know if I said that on another one of these, but I'll say it again kind of gives me an almost Similar vibe to ugly Shout out Eat Good ol' Hugh Thomas. He's out there. You know, it's just sort of a playful, like anyone could kind of associate with it. It's not dark and death like Liquid Death. Kind of like that it's doing its own thing is really my point. Nothing against Liquid Death, but I think copying Liquid Death is a bad idea was what I was going to say, so.
[00:17:21] Ray Latif: Well, I almost wish Eat The opening to the can was on the other side so that you could actually see Down the side of the can Drink Weird because now as it stands when you're drinking it you just see like the nutrition facts It says winky.
[00:17:35] John Craven: I don't I'm not sure that technology exists to line up a Shrink-sleeve label and the opening to the can but maybe I'm wrong if someone out there knows let me know but mark yellow there you go
[00:17:47] Jacqui Brugliera: You know, there's countless entrepreneurs who've had that issue. It's like you're, you want somebody who's drinking the can. You want them to be drinking and see your brand. But speaking of Hugh Thomas, we've got Top Of The Mornin coffee right here. I've got the golden hour in my hand. Uh, this is new company that Hugh Thomas is involved in.
[00:18:05] Ray Latif: I think you have to say Top Of The Mornin. Top Of The Mornin. Yeah. Yeah. There's no G Eat The end of morning in this brand. We have to go to the Gaelic football expert.
[00:18:15] Mike Schneider: Top Of The Mornin.
[00:18:17] Ray Latif: Okay, we'll see what our teammates think yeah That sounded a little Southampton Right right Jackie plays Australian rules football now, too, so it's okay. It's kind of like that movie I love you man when Paul Rudd everything he says sounds like a leprechaun Yeah
[00:18:43] Jacqui Brugliera: Let's go back to Top Of The Mornin here Top Of The Mornin and on the bottom of the bag It says bottom of The Mornin you how you know I found that out because I was making a video about Top Of The Mornin I was doing bag flips, and I just I noticed it when I was flying. This is a new brand from YouTube gamer jacksepticeye This is his brand and Hugh Thomas is the CEO of this company, and they sent us some and this is really tasty stuff they've got as Hugh would say some people who know quite a bit about coffee making the coffee and He sent us ground coffee though. What's wrong? I like that you like you here you go.
[00:19:17] John Craven: Thank you very much I made some The Mornin.
[00:19:20] Ray Latif: I made a midnight oil The Mornin. You know the branding actually is reminiscent of ugly It feels bright and bold and a little playful Top Of The Mornin. It's got the guest who was involved in the rebrand Okay. Congratulations. Oh, I thought you were going to say you.
[00:19:34] Jacqui Brugliera: No, it's me. You? You.
[00:19:35] Ray Latif: Thomas. So of course it's going to be a bit reminiscent of us. Yes. Yes. The tagline is absurdly good coffee. I love this orange color that they're using for the bag.
[00:19:44] Jacqui Brugliera: It's in your face. Wakey wakey on the side. It's clever. Top Of The Mornin on the front. Bottom of The Mornin on the bottom.
[00:19:50] Ray Latif: This will definitely stand out on shelf. Before we get to the can of monster that is also next to the can of weird water on John's side table over there I gotta ask Jackie about Eat The products that she has in front of her and be that epic t-shirt. Yeah It's like we have two legends on the show right now Jackie and Cheryl Swoops And that sure was that your idol growing up or your basketball idol?
[00:20:13] Mike Schneider: Yeah, so she's pretty much the best woman's basketball player of all time.
[00:20:18] Jacqui Brugliera: Pretty much.
[00:20:18] Mike Schneider: There's also another podcast that I listen to beyond Taste Radio, the just woman sports podcast. And they came out with a whole line of apparel with just women legends in sports. So this is their Cheryl swoops t shirt. And it's March Madness right now. So I'm really in basketball mode.
[00:20:36] Jacqui Brugliera: I mean, that is an awesome shirt, Jackie, I noticed it as soon as you can. So Jackie's like, It's probably 75 degrees freezing in San Diego's Jackie's wearing the pile coat in the shell swoop shirt And yeah looking looking good over there Jackie.
[00:20:48] Mike Schneider: Yeah, yeah, it's my favorite shirt right now Yeah, watching a crazy amount of March Madness if anyone Clark. She's a pretty impressive unreal She had a triple double with 40 points over the weekend, so it's only a junior place for the University of Iowa
[00:21:05] Ray Latif: Jackie played for a college basketball team back in the day.
[00:21:07] Mike Schneider: Jackie's a champion.
[00:21:08] Ray Latif: Jackie's not only a champion, you were the MVP of your tournament, weren't you?
[00:21:12] Mike Schneider: I was, yeah. That was almost 10 years ago, but yeah, D2 national champs, long time ago, but. still in it, still mentally in it right now.
[00:21:23] Ray Latif: And listeners, go ahead and challenge Jackie to a game of basketball.
[00:21:25] Mike Schneider: See what happens. Let's do it. I'm down to play with you. Yeah. Put that as a Taste Radio VIP opportunities. But, uh, what's fueling me right now is a couple products right here, which I have very colorful packaging Eat Good. So this is a chipotle jackfruit tamale. It's vegan, gluten-free, dairy-free, allergen-free, and they're pretty hefty tamales. So they're very filling, really delicious. I've been using a lot more jackfruit in my personal cooking recently. Gives you like a hearty tamale that's still vegan, which sometimes is hard to find. And I love the colorful packaging. It really stood out because this is something that's in the frozen section.
[00:22:09] Ray Latif: Yeah, it looks like the color scheme for Saved by the Bell, or at Eat The... Yeah, it's a little retro. The diner.
[00:22:16] Mike Schneider: It's alright, cause Eat Good.
[00:22:18] John Craven: That's not going to be their jingle. That got weird. Sorry. Sorry, listeners.
[00:22:24] Mike Schneider: And then I have Colexo, which we saw Eat The Snack Shot event. And they have beautiful packaging, you know, zero sugar, zero calories, five milligrams of THC, no hangover, just a little buzz. And they have a whole line of their watercolor products. And this is called Spring.
[00:22:43] Jacqui Brugliera: That's what it looks like. When you Drink Weird product, I'm sure guy that it looks like the walls are melting when you look at that thing the can is like Yeah, that's the point you get high you put this on the table and you just watch it melt And then um another product that I found it's a can pretty much an accessory
[00:23:00] Mike Schneider: Pretty much once a week I've been just eating 10 seafood for dinner. It's been my thing. And I found a kone. It is a family owned business in the Pacific Northwest. So these are specifically smoked oysters and they are delicious. So they're not really in like any oils or seasoning. They're just smoked and they're so, so good. They're pretty large as well and really, really delicious. But yeah, farm-raised, sustainably harvested, very simple ingredients. And they're hot smoked over a bed of birch, beech, and maple chips.
[00:23:34] Jacqui Brugliera: I want that. And of course they're already shelled.
[00:23:37] Mike Schneider: Yes, so super easy to just yeah, Eat The. Put them on. I just put them on a little baguette with some butter and some salt.
[00:23:44] Jacqui Brugliera: Imagine they made you shell them.
[00:23:47] Ray Latif: They're tinned, but. Really cool branding. How do you spell the name of the brand again?
[00:23:52] Mike Schneider: E-K-O-N-E. E-K-O-N-E. Nice.
[00:23:57] Ray Latif: Nice. Alright, let's follow up some muscles with some monster.
[00:24:01] John Craven: Yeah, I mean right you said that I had a can of monster sitting next to me, so I just want to clarify that it's the monster Tor water, it's just kind of water. This is their No offense to monster energy drink I don't consume a lot of energy drinks, but the water sure it's you know not bad.
[00:24:23] Mike Schneider: It tastes like water
[00:24:24] Ray Latif: Water, but again, this is their response to all the success that Liquid Death has had along with Liquid Death partnership with What's the name of the the big concert nation live nation exactly?
[00:24:36] John Craven: Yeah, I think monsters been making this tour water They have it was from the vans warp tour of back in the day. Yeah, and I guess they're bringing this back to Since I'm assuming I'm not drinking a really old can of water here.
[00:24:48] Mike Schneider: Yeah. And I saw they had a big presence at Expo West on the main floor and they were slinging, slinging their water. So it's interesting. Definitely gives me Liquid Death vibes as far as branding.
[00:24:59] Ray Latif: It is strange to think about Monster having a big presence at Expo West. But that would be their way in, right, Water?
[00:25:05] John Craven: Well, I mean, technically, I think they've had their Hanson Natural Juice Company and Hubert's. They've been at Expo West before. But nothing branded as Monster. No. I... Don't know yeah, but I think as Jackie said I mean you know handing out cans of water to trade show like we need that right. That's a no-brainer.
[00:25:24] Ray Latif: Yeah true true Well, there was a lot of that there was path water Liquid Death was there.
[00:25:29] John Craven: I guess monster was there Yeah, I mean there's always I mean any bottled water companies like giving out their stuff like crazy right for sure yeah Those cans and bottles and hands you know they should have is what a hot pot just being passed around yeah, right Mike. Oh, yeah Perfect because hot pot rules But side note you'd rather a little basket of fried chicken and some doughnuts was always your go-to at trade shows so John's talking about the next show when yes if you were high the gigantic Krispy Kreme booth and you smelled those doughnuts Who would we get fried chicken from though?
[00:26:08] Ray Latif: Oh? Chicken and doughnuts yeah, and it was like combo mr.. Cluckin or Franchises that goes in a convenience store exactly yeah There's actually one in Mission Hill in Boston that I'm always tempted to go there So being the trade show pro that you are a you found the the fresh hot
[00:26:25] John Craven: Krispy Kreme and mr.. Cluckin, and you let me tell you something not that far I mean in fairness this was like almost 10 years ago, so we were both a little younger we could afford You know crispy creams and some fried chicken and I? What would we get to drink at that show like a Sierra Nevada?
[00:26:44] Ray Latif: Maybe I don't know Slim Piggins coca-cola always used to have like really interesting new flavors like they would have not just like vanilla Raspberry coca-cola, and that's the time to have that I think you know anyway.
[00:26:58] John Craven: Sorry for ruining your say hot pot It does sound pretty good though
[00:27:05] Ray Latif: All right, this is really interesting stuff here. I mean, I'm looking Eat The branding for this hot pot brand, and I want to learn everything about it. What is this, Mike?
[00:27:16] Jacqui Brugliera: This is a brand called Hot Hotpot Queen, and it's called Hot Hotpot Queen because the founder's mother basically invented the hot pot in China. Really? It's Eat Good story. And there's a great video. If you go to their website, watch the video. I can't do it justice, but go watch it. You might, I mean, I wasn't crying, I was chopping onions. It's a really good story. They've taken some of, you know, what they've learned over the years and they've decided to make some products. What you're holding in your hand there are noodles that go in a hot pot. They're thick cut noodles, Chongqing style. And I have something in my, I have two things in my hand. First, the wild mushroom chunky chili sauce, which this stuff is next level. That sounds amazing.
[00:28:00] Mike Schneider: Did you get a chance to taste it?
[00:28:02] Jacqui Brugliera: I need that. No, no, that's that's how I need that Chunky chili, you don't you don't see that too often. Yeah chunky chili sauce and of course Jackie's, you know, not only is it spicy, but it's got Jackie's favorite mushroom mushroom. Oh true and Jackie the mushrooms they sit with you in like the best way and then you get You need to explain that have you had a lot of like I'm gonna explain it. Have you ever I'm getting to that part you guys You eat it and there's that and there's heat and it's it's kind of like a gentle burn and then it kind of builds up yeah, and then It sits with you, and you have that feeling for a while. That's and then you're crying Occasionally and I know you can if you if it's too hot you can cry But you have a warm feeling for a while and that's and you also have like, you know, you ate mushrooms, too You know, that's what I mean by it sits with you. So this stuff is great. Mm-hmm We also have their chili crisp here and the branding is pretty stunning That's the first thing that I noticed about it.
[00:29:08] Ray Latif: Just kind of one is out of your chunky chili sauce, right? And one is a chili chili crisp, okay
[00:29:14] Jacqui Brugliera: And finally in my hand here, which it's Sichuan triple chili powder. And yeah, because, well, the first ingredient is three chili blends, which I don't know Eat The three chilies are. I'm curious, but this stuff, it's in this green package and it pops because the writing is pink and it looks just, it looks insane. Like it could be dangerous. I gotta try this.
[00:29:42] Ray Latif: Yeah, anything that's triple chili that might hurt down the line. I'm going for it. Alright, it's time to get to our featured interview for this episode. That's with Seth Goldman. Seth is the co-founder of admired entrepreneurial beverage brand Honest Tea, chair of the board at plant-based meat pioneer Beyond Meat, and co-founder of Eat The Change, a plant-centric and planet-friendly food and beverage company launched in partnership with chef Spike Mendelsohn. Eat The Change debuted in 2021 with organic mushroom jerky and last year introduced an innovative line of carrot-based kid snacks. Eat The Change announced that it would enter the RTD tea category in June of 2022, two weeks after the Coca-Cola Company's shock announcement that it would discontinue Honest Tea. Just Iced Tea, which markets a range of organic and fair trade certified bottled tea, launched in October and is available nationally at Whole Foods and Sprouts. I caught up with Seth at Eat The Changes bustling booth at Expo West 2023 for a conversation in which he reflected upon his 25 years as an entrepreneur and lessons learned about The Mornin beverage industry, developing an effective trial strategy, consumer perception of plant-based foods, and developing strong relationships with retail buyers, among other topics. Hey folks, it's Ray with Taste Radio. I am Eat The Eat The Change booth at Expo West 2023. And sitting with me right now is the co-founder and CEO and godfather of The Mornin beverage industry, Seth Goldman. How are you?
[00:31:29] Honest Tea: I'm great, Ray. Good to be with you.
[00:31:31] Ray Latif: I am so happy you're with me today. And as always, you're smiling and excited. And the last two days have been Exhilarating and hectic and wild, but somehow I imagine they're really, really fun for you.
[00:31:43] Honest Tea: Yeah, you know, when we got the news about Honesty being discontinued, I've described it as a gut punch, and it was. But what we're just feeling now at this show is it was a gift. It was a gift to our company, a gift to our team, and hopefully a gift to the growers that we can really take this to the next level.
[00:31:59] Ray Latif: Totally, totally. This is your 25th year in CPG. You co-founded Honesty in 1998. Yeah. And I felt it was an appropriate time to ask you a few questions about what you've learned.
[00:32:14] Honest Tea: And still learning, by the way.
[00:32:15] Ray Latif: And still learning, for sure. But making your way through and making your way in CPG is not easy. Yeah. There's a lot of pitfalls. There's a lot of things that can trip you up. There's a lot of things that you can do right and still screw up. But let's talk about a few things one by one. And you just got back into beverage last year with Just Iced Tea. And I wonder what you've learned or what you're learning about. getting back into beverage, getting back to this contemporary beverage industry.
[00:32:46] Honest Tea: You know, one of the things that's just come true and so powerfully as we relaunch is how important the team is. We are very fortunate that more than half of our employees are former Honest Tea. people, and they are all seasoned and knowledgeable, and it has just made a material difference in our ability to move quickly. I mean, as you may know, we took this idea to market in 90 days from when we said we're going to do this to when we sold our first bottle in a store. And that's incredibly fast. That wouldn't have happened without the kind of team we have. And so that and just the ability to have a high-performing team interact with each other so well is just a really, it's a wonderful thing to see happen, but it's also a joyous thing. We're all just really enjoying this, probably even more than we did with Honest Tea.
[00:33:34] Ray Latif: Do you feel like it's a pretty different kind of experience than when you first started the company or are there a lot of similarities?
[00:33:41] Honest Tea: Well, the big difference is the market is there. When we launched Honest Tea, there was no market for less sweet drinks. There was no market for organic drinks and there was no market for fair trade. None of those things were out there. Honesty, our team, and then the Coca-Cola company helped build this market. And so now, obviously, the retailers know there's a market. The consumers expect to see it. And the fact that we were able to go on to the same shelf space that Honesty vacated has meant a pretty seamless handoff for the consumer. And so to be able to launch a beverage with an established market is much easier than starting from scratch.
[00:34:15] Ray Latif: Do you find that consumers are asking more out of your beverage, more out of your products than you had originally thought? I mean, people are turning around that bottle and looking Eat The label with a little bit more scrutiny than they had.
[00:34:27] Honest Tea: Yeah, well, you know, Honesty and I always had high demands of its sourcing and really was very transparent about it. And I would say Just IT is no less demanding. But what we will be doing even more is shining a light on them. So my co-founder, Spike Mendelson, and I just came back from a sourcing trip to Mozambique. And in the coming weeks, we're going to be sharing video and messaging about that trip. But it was, for me, by far the most inspiring trip in connection with a supplier I've had. And so we want to elevate that story. We Eat The consumer to feel that when they choose our Just Iced Tea, they are part of that community.
[00:35:05] Ray Latif: Now, Just Ice Tea is part of the Eat The Change platform. Right, right. And it's the latest expansion for Eat The Change, which has three product lines.
[00:35:15] Honest Tea: Yeah, we have a carrot juice and the mushroom jerky. We have adult carrot juice and kids carrot juice.
[00:35:20] Ray Latif: Yeah. And with just iced tea, you've extended into a number of different beverage types beyond iced tea. Right. What have you learned about extending a brand as new categories?
[00:35:30] Honest Tea: You know, first of all, it has to make sense for the brand. And so it has to be a logical extension. So it almost going reverse. We had a snack company with plant-friendly food. We had to ask ourselves, well, does iced tea Makes sense. And then we have these five planet-based commitments all around it. And so, you know, yes, it was organic. Yes, it was water efficient and that kind of thing. So it has to make sense for the brand and the guardrails of the brand. And then, you know, much like anything, is it delicious? Does it connect with that consumer? And especially when we think about a kid's market, it's one of those things where you have two audiences. You know, you have the consumer, which is usually a kid, Then you have the parent, who's that screen. And so we're still finding that right combination with our cosmic carrot shoes. But obviously, what Honest Kids was able to do is develop that. Basically, it was almost a peer pressure brand, where at a birthday party or a soccer game, if a parent didn't bring Honest Kids, the other parents would sort of look down like, oh, what are you doing? And so we'd love to be able to create that same competitive advantage for what we're doing in the carrots.
[00:36:32] Ray Latif: Yeah, I want to talk a bit more about kids' products, because it feels like Honest Kids is a very isolated success. There's not a lot of kids' brands, especially entrepreneurial kids' brands that work. Yeah. What have you learned about how to make a kids' brand work?
[00:36:47] Honest Tea: You know, it's funny. We really tried to make it as accessible as possible. So we didn't, you know, either dumb it down, making it like, you know, too kiddy-like. I'd like to think the graphics were fun, but they were pretty straightforward. And the main thing was Eat The taste was something a kid could relate to. I mean, the fact is, most parents will feed their kids watered-down juice. So, like, it wasn't too hard for a kid to adapt to it. The irony was that when a parent was giving a kid a drink pouch, they weren't giving them watered-down juice. So, it has to work for the kid. It has to be sweet enough Eat The kid will... We joke this never became a marketing slogan. You'll see why. But it was, like, just sweet enough that a kid wouldn't reject it. And that's not very catchy, but what would happen is we saw lots of companies bring out a water for kids. And as you know, a lot of them didn't succeed because, you know, flavored water just doesn't, you know, kids do need some energy. They do need some carbs when they're drinking. So we felt like Honest Kids was just at that crossover point that it worked, but it wasn't too junky.
[00:37:49] Ray Latif: How do you know when to cut ties with a product that you love?
[00:37:53] Honest Tea: Yeah, it's hard. It's really hard because, you know, anything we develop, we get personally invested in. We really even get emotional about the supplier. But ultimately, market data is market data. And so the first thing we'll do if it's not working is figure out, is it us? And often it is. Maybe the packaging's not right. Maybe the flavor profile's not right. Maybe the ingredient isn't right. So as an example, mushroom jerky is a polarizing ingredient. Mushrooms are polarizing. Not everyone likes mushrooms. So should we be putting more emphasis on the plant-based jerky side? And so before we ever give up on something, we're going to want to make sure were executing it the right way. And, you know, although we've been successful a few times, we certainly have failed a few times that, you know, about Honest Coconova. Yeah. One of my favorite. And Honest Sport. You know, there are a lot of lot of dead ends along the way.
[00:38:44] Ray Latif: Yeah. Wasn't there a sort of a mid tier Honest? I forget the name of it. It was between kids and like the.
[00:38:49] Honest Tea: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I guess we just call it Honest. Yes. I remember that too, yeah.
[00:38:54] Ray Latif: Coconova for folks, if you want to Google it.
[00:38:57] Honest Tea: That's the archives.
[00:38:58] Ray Latif: Yeah, that was a BevNET favorite.
[00:39:01] Honest Tea: Really creative drink. No one knew exactly what it was and we couldn't help people understand exactly Eat The occasion was for it.
[00:39:08] Ray Latif: Yeah. Well, we tried it and we loved it. And sometimes that's all that you need. You know, you just need to know that people love to try your product.
[00:39:16] Honest Tea: Yeah, except for this one. So, Coca-Nova is an example. So, people didn't know if it was a cocoa drink. No, it was made with cacao. And so, we tried to get a merchandise near coffee drinks, but it wasn't a coffee drink. And so, sometimes the shelves The way things are merchandised is too hard to explain to a consumer what it was. Ultimately though, what happened is we demoed it so many times and we didn't see any lift from it. And in fact, my son was doing demos that summer and he came home one day and said, Dad, I just don't know if this is working. We're not getting the lift from it. We'll put everything we can. When we bring something to market, we're fully committed. But if the market rejects it, and we've done our best effort, we have to sort of Eat The market too.
[00:40:00] Ray Latif: But everything's a lesson. And I guess this was a segue to, you know, what you've learned about developing an effective trial strategy, an effective demo strategy.
[00:40:10] Honest Tea: Yeah, yeah. Well, certainly one of them is we do demos is key. We have to get people to taste it. I could never describe to you what coconut is because you've never tasted anything like it.
[00:40:19] Ray Latif: We're here, we're raving about it and people have no idea what we're talking about.
[00:40:22] Honest Tea: Yeah, so demos are critical. You've got, you know, obviously my role in Beyond Meat as well. I'm familiar with how that dynamic people, I can describe it to you in a lot of words that you can taste it and instantly understand what we're talking about. So there are certain places where the demo is the only effective way to get people to understand what it is. And so that's always going to be something we're emphasizing and certainly here with Just Iced Tea and Eat the carrot snacks as well.
[00:40:49] Ray Latif: You mentioned Beyond Meat. Obviously, we know Honest Tea and Eat relationship with Coca-Cola. Beyond Meat had its own relationship with a strategic company at one point. What have you learned about working with a strategic company?
[00:41:02] Honest Tea: I think the key to way to make it work is to not expect anything. And often you'll be, you won't be disappointed. And what you really just have to think about is what can you do with your own resources and where do you need help from them? So, you know, at Coca-Cola, there was a key piece was distribution. And so, yes, they got us incredible distribution. And they got us to places I had always sort of dreamed about, whether it was overseas or, you know, we're getting on as kids in the McDonald's and Subway and Wendy's and Chick-fil-A and all those places. Those were real things. What I think worked well for us with Honest Tea is that we had ingrained the values of the brand so powerfully. There was never a temptation that Coke just try to dilute them. And so although, of course, it's unfortunate Honest Tea discontinued, the even worse outcome would have been if they had tried to water it down. which would have been death by a thousand cuts. And that would have been painful to watch. And ultimately, you know, I think would have led to the same outcome. So I think going in, you have to just make sure you have built a moat around what you're creating.
[00:42:06] Ray Latif: Do you feel like you had a line or you could have had a line to say James Quincy, who's the chairman and CEO of Coca-Cola, and make a personal appeal on behalf of Honesty? I mean, do you think that would have made a difference? Because it feels like he has a pretty firm hand in those decisions.
[00:42:22] Honest Tea: I don't think so. I mean, it is true that when we did the deal with Coca-Cola initially, there were some great personal dynamics. I wasn't invested in this. I wasn't as connected to the next wave of leadership in the same way. I mean, I knew the players, but certainly not Eat The same level. And I hadn't worked with them Eat The same level. And so, you know, when they got to the, if I had been in the building, perhaps it would have been different because I could have been doing the kind of lobbying and relationship building that I did when I was part of Honest Tea. But I think part of what contributed to the demise, I don't think was the only thing, but was that there wasn't an internal advocate for Honest Tea. I mean, if you go back and look at sort of from probably 2017 through 2019, at least, Honesty was one of the darlings of, you know, Coca-Cola would do these public service ads and highlight Honesty. Super Bowl ad with Honesty in there. Yeah, and talk about how, the wonderful things they're doing in the world. And, you know, I think their business changed as well. I think it did move much more towards, you know, fizzy liquid in a can.
[00:43:24] Taste Radio: Yeah.
[00:43:24] Honest Tea: And obviously they've had, you know, record years of profitability, so it's hard to, criticize that in terms of the short-term results. I think where the downside will be, perhaps, is in the years ahead as maybe those drinks don't have as much appeal and consumers expand Beyond Meat and do they have relevant solutions.
[00:43:45] Ray Latif: The trust that you're talking about, the trust in relationships that you could develop in a strategic seem to be really, really important. Yeah. And it feels like, yeah, maybe if you were in the building, things might have been a little bit different. But I guess, what have you learned about developing trust with people that aren't necessarily your friends, but they are important people?
[00:44:06] Honest Tea: Business partners.
[00:44:07] SPEAKER_??: Yeah.
[00:44:08] Honest Tea: So somebody said, well, could you have had some legal protection? You can't. I mean, it is business. So I think the best results, and this is something I said to my team all the time, like, yes, we're part of Coca-Cola with honesty, but whatever it is, if we grow, we basically renew our license to operate. If we don't grow, if we're not profitable, Don't assume anything's a given. And frankly, that's certainly the case where we are today, too. Growth cures a lot of ills. And I think even the best relationships, and we know this with stores, and we've had products discontinued in stores, and we have a wonderful relationship with the buyer, but you say the market doesn't lie. You may not agree with the market, but it doesn't lie.
[00:44:52] Ray Latif: So even if you have a strong relationship with a retail buyer, they'll just point to the numbers and say, look.
[00:44:57] Honest Tea: Yeah, they may give you a little more rope. They may give you a little more time. Or they'll come in and say, hey, this isn't working. Let's solve it together. And that's wonderful. And that's certainly happened to us over the time. Or how do we find a way to make this work? But ultimately, if we try and they try and it doesn't work, You know, we've got to understand that reality. And it's, you know, one of the things I always talk about is about when you discontinue SKUs, and I never like discontinuing a SKU, but I would always rather discontinue a SKU ourselves than have it discontinued by a buyer. And it shows we're being proactive. And we can go to the buyer and say, hey, this particular approach isn't working, but here's how we're going to change it. That's happened plenty of times.
[00:45:40] Ray Latif: It seems like in recent years, retail buyers have placed a little bit more emphasis on plant-based foods, plant-based ingredients. And the perception, however, the consumer perception of plant-based, I think, has also evolved in recent years as well. What have you learned about consumer perception of plant-based?
[00:45:58] Honest Tea: Yeah. Consumers understand plant-based makes sense. They understand why it's better for the environment. They're starting to understand it's better for their health. The more we learn about the climate crisis and the more we learn about food being a primary contributor to it, I just think it's going to continue to deepen the appeal of these products. There's still a challenge around taste. There's still a challenge around cost. And so those are the kind of the two key fronts that we need to continue to go against. The other one is health. I think intuitively people understand why it makes sense to be plant based for health reasons, but there's a counter narrative being put out by some industry groups. And so we just need to make sure we're always telling that story and don't ever assume, oh, people will just get it.
[00:46:39] Ray Latif: What impact or effect do you think things like plant-based meat and, I guess, stigmas about plant-based meat have had on things like plant-based jerky?
[00:46:47] Honest Tea: Oh, I just think it all contributes to that. You know, people often want to look for a reason to not have to change their habits. And so all you need is a little bit of shade thrown their way. I don't need to go there. Right, right. People, we're all creatures of habit. And so disrupting those habits is hard.
[00:47:05] Ray Latif: Yeah. Well, I think there is a proven link between eating more plant-based foods and general happiness. Yes. And I'd love to hear from you in these 25 crazy years that you've been in consumer products. What makes you happy?
[00:47:19] Honest Tea: Oh, my goodness. Well, certainly my family is the primary driver of my happiness. I have really deep and loving relationships with my wife and sons. The next one is this team, this team that I get to work with every day. It's funny, I don't know if I'm getting mushy in my older age, but I literally, probably at least once a week, will just tell them how much I love working with them. I really do. They bring joy to my life. And of course, growing together makes it so much more fun too. And then the other one that I felt so vividly, and Spike and I got to experience it, when we could go to this tea growing community in Mozambique, to see the impact we were having, to see the ecosystem we were helping to support, the beautiful agriculture, but also this community of people who, for them, this is one of the poorest communities in the world, and so to be able to provide livelihood for them to be able to move beyond subsistence farming is just such a gratifying piece of work, and to feel like what we're doing is not just commercially viable and successful, but important.
[00:48:20] Ray Latif: You know what's made me happy is popping open a bottle of Just Icy mango white tea.
[00:48:25] Honest Tea: Thank you. Love that. And I want to share one more. Yeah. The other thing I've really learned here is karma is real. It's funny. I say this because I'm not too new agey. I don't have crystals or whatever it is. But I really do believe that what you put out into the world comes back to you. And it's funny, because people talk about, in your next life, well, in a sense, I'm having my next life. You know, I did Honest Tea was the first life, and maybe this is the third life, if you count Beyond Meat. But... One of the reasons we've been able to get to market so quickly, one of the reasons we've been so welcomed by the retailer and the consumers, because I'd like to think we really did the right thing every step of the way with honesty. And frankly, I think a great validation of that is the employees. As they mentioned, over half of our employees are former honesty. No one was bound, no one had any contracts saying they had to come back and work for Eat The Change if it happened. They all chose to come back, and that's just so gratifying. I know if they were hiring and I could be part of that team, I would try to do that, too.
[00:49:28] Ray Latif: Yeah. Well, I guess the cliches are true. You know, what comes around goes around.
[00:49:32] Honest Tea: It does. Yeah.
[00:49:33] Ray Latif: The love you make is equal to the love you take or vice versa. I forget whether the take or make is first. But anyway.
[00:49:41] Honest Tea: One other thing. Sorry. But the other thing I've learned, I hadn't really appreciated it because, you know, when I was doing Honest Tea, obviously, we were happy about being organic. But when we go Eat The change, and we have this planet-friendly umbrella, and I start looking at what's involved in harvesting tea leaves, it actually, and I'd love to have someone challenge me on this, but I actually think it's the most sustainable crop in the world, and here's why. Especially when it's organic. There's no chemical inputs, there's fertilizer, but it's manure and other compost. There's no chemical herbicides or chemical pesticides, and there's no irrigation. The leaves grow, and then every two weeks they regenerate. And so all it is is people picking tea leaves, putting them in baskets, and just moving around the gardens as it regenerates. I don't know another crop where you have that level of regeneration. All you need really is great soil, sun, and rain, which in Mozambique they get every day at two o'clock. They set their watches by the 2 p.m. rain.
[00:50:39] Ray Latif: Seth, once again, thank you so much for taking the time to be with me today. You've taught so many people so many great things, and you continue to do so. I know how busy you are, so this is really meaningful for me and our audience. Thank you.
[00:50:52] Honest Tea: Thanks, Ray.
[00:50:56] Ray Latif: That brings us to the end of this episode of Taste Radio. Thank you so much for listening. Taste Radio is a production of BevNET.com, Incorporated. Our audio engineer for Taste Radio is Joe Cracci. Our technical director is Joshua Pratt, and our video editor is Ryan Galang. Our social marketing manager is Amanda Smerlinski, and our designer is Amanda Huang. Just a reminder, if you like what you hear on Taste Radio, please share the podcast with friends and colleagues. And of course, we would love it if you could review us on the Apple Podcasts app or your listening platform of choice. Check us out on Instagram. Our handle is bevnettasteradio. As always, for questions, comments, ideas for future podcasts, please send us an email to ask at Taste Radio. On behalf of the entire Taste Radio team, thank you for listening, and we'll talk to you next time.
[00:51:46] Taste Radio: you
